User Panel
Posted: 9/13/2004 9:06:46 AM EDT
So how many of you fellow Joisey guys are as pissed off as I am that the sunsetting of the AWB does absolutley nothing for us?? I'm already tired of looking at fellow AR15 members showing off their folders and attached bayonets! Danm I hate this state!!!!!
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Same here nothing to be happy about here, but I am glad for those who could. What pisses me off more than anything is not being able to by C-Mags. I doesn't make sense if I can own 20 or 30 rounders why the F&^K can't I buy a C-Mag that is made now.
I can't wait to move out of here. I told my wife PA is looking better and better. Fixing the house up a little to get ready to Sell. |
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I'll put on the flame suit:
"What have YOU DONE to change the climate in your state?" WAIT!!!! Let me put my hood on first......... O.K. Go ahead. RW3 |
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There are pre94 manufactured Cmags out there....
I here you, I'm looking at land in VT again... |
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Get used to it or swim across the Delaware and find some Pa. shootin' buddies.New Jersey will not change for now.We need to plant lots of pro-gun GOP seeds in this state. |
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I humbly accept your nomination to this post. I will take one for the team and perform this solemn duty on all our behalfs. The line starts to the left, so gets our Jersey girls in line! |
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I vote, I get my entire family to vote, I encourge my friends to vote, I write to my reps and I donate to the correct organizations and candidates. Mike Perfect way to expend post #500!!!!!!!! |
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OK, on a more serious note... No need for the flame suit, you are absolutely correct. I choke on the apathy that hangs over this state every day. That so many people are focused so narrowly on the patch of ground 6 inches in front of them is, perhaps, enough all by itself to make you want to give up and leave. That said, I try. I've held 9 outings over the past 2 years now. Whether I'm making a difference or not isn't for me to say. Frankly, it doesn't really matter to me if my efforts are ultimately for naught for I have had the pleasure of meeting some truly fine individuals along the way. I've seen as many as 25 people, perhaps the most persecuted and fearful types of shooters in this state, come out and stand proud together. I have even had the pleasure of seeing three of them come 400 miles down to VA for a shoot this past weekend. Hell, most of them even took part in the stripped lower group buy I just ran, resulting in 40-ish new evil black rifles in this state. Perhaps its not political, but its something. Each and every first-timer that has come to a BLAST, and there have been a few, has walked away having had a good time. (at least, so I've been told) Each one of these first-timers now has a positive experience to associate with an 'assault rifle' and the shooting sports. Each one of these first-timers is now, hopefully, another person who might say, "Hey, you've got it wrong. Those rifles are not evil and those people that shoot them are not bad people." Again, perhaps its not an impactful action but its something. The fact that all of these folks, both newbies and 'veterans', are more active participants in the shooting sports, even if only once every other month, is enough for me to never, EVER, give up on organizing our shoots. Like I said, whether it makes a difference is not for me to say, but I try... Ray, I respect what you are trying to do with NJCSD. I really do. So don't take this for anything other than a friendly challenge. I am going to lay the gauntlet down for you - how many of your members can you get to the next NJ BLAST? I know several of the crew here registered on the NJCSD forums a while back and made the effort to get to know your group. I also know that they were met with a slightly cold shoulder, even if it was indirect, by those members of your organization that seemed to be a little narrowly focused on the issue of gun rights. While I realize this was not nor is your opinion, it did turn some folks away. I'd like to use this opportunity to change that. I'd like to reiterate my invitation to you to join us for one of our shoots. The next one, if all goes well, will be the 10th shoot, 3rd BBQ and 2nd camping trip! We can sit here and ask each other "what you've done" all day. I'd rather get all of you together on the same firing line to fling some hot brass together and forge some new friendships... |
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And you make it to every NJ BLAST shoot to be seen as a proud member of the shooting community and let others know its ok to come out too. |
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I feel your pain too,
However Join the NRA and hopefully we can get more support to get rid of the dumb NJ soccer mom laws regarding rifles jeez who said a nice 10/22 with a good shooter cant to the same as the other sniping idiots out there...its not the weapon that does the damage. well depending on what it is but its the person who pulls that trigger... Im lealous of my AZ PA and FLA buddies who have CCW's and supppressed full autos and TEC9s not that I like that weapon much but hell they go out to the desert and go crazy but thats just too dam far from the beach for me PA does look good though |
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Well put FMJ, as always. Speaking from personal experience I can say that I could not have picked a better bunch of guys to help me in introducing our great sport(obsession), to my wife at the last Blast. She had a great time, and commented on what a nice bunch of guys you all were. especially 555R for letting her shoot your Barrett. I already knew that, which is why I decided to bring her with me to that particular shoot. And I am proud to say that she will be coming with me again for the next one in OCT, and she'll be camping with us too. |
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This deserves a +1 |
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We're all in this boat together, whether we realize it or not. In the long run, NJ may very well loose the RKBA as we know it. In that case many of us will leave. The important thing is that the next generations have somewhere left to go. And alot of us do our small part to counter the mis-information spewed forth to the people.
Everyone's welcome at the Blasts. Where is the NJCSD shoot & can I bring my (black) rifle? |
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you know
I may be ranting but... hmmm I read that article stating mcgeevy's thoughts on assault weapons are made for one purpose and thats to kill... hmmm we should ban cars and trucks...car bombs kill airplanes since they can kill...what else have we kitchen knives meat cleavers as they can kill oh yeah flintlocks can kill a dart can kill poison arrow frogs can kill a flying piece of wood can kill pens and pencils and even razors wow maybe people should be banned in NJ hell weather kills lets ban hurricanes and lightning storms and rip tides, the beach kills man its not the item that kills its the fool behind the trigger dammit i give up!!! |
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What's up with that is that it is a patently untrue statement. I was there at the rally, and also donated to the 'ban can' and signed the petition for adding the libertarian candidate to the primary vote. I know of two other ARFCOM members who were there......I stood and talked with them for a good while after the rally dispersed. I'm not going to say it wasn't an outstanding showing for AR15.com, but it's a start. Then again, it's not bad considering I'm a joined member of the NJCSD forum and I got more info from posts on ARFCOM's NJ board, from an ARFCOM member, regarding the specifics of the rally than I ever did from NJCSD. There were a lot of posts on the threads in NJCSD, but no concrete place where one could find all the particulars w/regards to time, location, specific directions, etc. I'm trying hard to be objective and detached, but that part of your post really does burn me. I've got no beef with the rest of it (I myself have never noticed any cold shoulder for the few NJCSD events I've been to, even when wearing AR15.com apparel). However, if you're going to call into question our level of commitment, and by reference to that MY commitment to the cause, then perhaps when you launch from the bully pullpit you ought to make sure you've got all the facts. You want to beat on me (being a member of ARFCOM) for what I've done wrong, or not done that should have been, thats fine. But I do not appreciate being denigrated, nor desire to see my fellow members denigrated, based on the erroneous facts of others. Guess what...some people here (more it seems than you knew) stood up and answered the call. I'm guessing this is close to what was being referred to as 'the cold shoulder'. I understand the technique/tactic, and have seen it's effectiveness in the past.....however some people (myself included) tend not to appreciate it. You want to continue with the negative reinforcement/bully pulpit, continue to frame us as part of the problem, go ahead. That's your right. I've got no beef with that in general. But hey, I've apparently got a thin skin, so I guess I'll just hang it up now... |
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Guys, let me jump in here to address some issues and misperceptions.
Ray and I have been smashing our heads against the wall for over a year and a half, because we know the only way things will change is if WE change it. And by "WE", we really mean "us" - as in: ALL OF US. Nobody ever changed a law or overturned tyrrany by staying home. Fredrick Douglass once said "Power concedes nothing without a demand." The "alphabet soup" of "gun rights" groups in this state have done little to nothing to aggressively change the law. In fact, those in-the-know, are aware that certain groups have actually CAUSED some of the legislation we despise. How? The reason we get more anti-gun legislation is that rather than going on the offensive and digging our heels in to say "NO" and go down with the ship, our "gun rights" groups capitulate and concede by seeking "exceptions" for only certain segments of our community, and throw the rest of us under the bus. That encourages yet more transgression of our rights, when a legislator knows that they can always throw a little bone to keep us gun nuts quiet, and they can always close the "sport shooting loophole" later. It's more or less like negotiating with terrorists. Even if you "win", you lose. So, is it any wonder why the sporting clays guys don't give a crap for the black rifle guys? Is it any wonder why the black rifle guys don't give a crap about smart gun laws? Is it any wonder why the hunters don't give a crap for any of us other gun owners? The NJCSD is a GUN RIGHTS GROUP. That's what we do. The anti-gun lobby has gotten where they are by spending lots of money over many years to increment our rights away. It would be illogical to presume that it would require anything less than that, to win them back. We have an entirely unique, market-driven strategy that we have absolute confidence will be successful. We know that this is a MARKETING and ADVERTISING issue, to overcome media programming that has been launched against us by a liberal machine that has a political agenda. Therefore, we do things to generate funds to implement our programs. For instance, when was the last time you heard about a gun rights group: * Producing the first-ever RKBA related Cable TV program? * Preparing for bulletin board ads on the NJ highways? * Holding a gun rights rally on the Trenton Capital Dome steps? * Creating content for magazine advertising? * Creating ads for pre-movie slide shows in theatres? * Coordinating group purchases of sporting goods or firearms related accessories? * Holding fundraising bus trips to the NRA firearms museum, or S&W factory tour? Well, I could go on, but you get the idea. I hope I've illustrated just the merest tip of the iceberg so you can get a sense that we know what it takes to WIN, and we have the organizational configuration, infrastructure, creativity, and determination to get there. FMJunkie: you said:
hard-case you said:
What happens here in New Jersey affects all you guys out there. Gun control legislation is like a CANCER. It must be treated at the source, or it will spread. That's the thing the NRA doesn't understand, and that we're working to correct. Those of us who live here "get it". The issue is getting you to help us help you. The rights you save will definitely be your own!!! |
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I had about 30 minutes worth of a response typed out here but we all need this to be productive.
rovert and Ray - I tried to do something positive with my first post by attempting to bring us together. I'm willing to try it again here... If something I said offended you, I AM SORRY. It was not my intent. I'd ask you to re-read it again understanding that I had no ill-intent whatsoever. Let's stop the defensive rants back and forth right now. Ray - Please update your thread here about the event as soon as you nail down the info. Also, please check your AR15.com instant messages shortly for a message from me, I want to run something by you. |
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We didn't take it 'defensively' at all, to the degree that you made it clear that you had no intent at all to be "offensive". I recognize that you were just reiterating something that was communicated to you.
But it was equally obvious that a clarification of the NJCSD's mission was important, because your friends showed up for one thing, and got another. Clearly, there was a misunderstanding. I just took the opportunity to remind us of how important it is for ALL gun owners in the state to know we're here, and we need to all row the boat in the same direction. |
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FMjunkie "If something I said offended you, I AM SORRY. It was not my intent.." You did not offend Rovert or myself. None of you guys have. We all just need to pull together. If we can get the boat rollong in the right direction it would truly be an awsome sight. We can do it......We will do it.......Together. (I would have been at the last "blast" but the wife wanted to go to Massachucetts for the weekend) I have to pick my battles if any of you married guys know what I mean! ;) I will check my IM. RW3 |
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RAYWOODROW3RD.....OK I have written letters to my Senators, Congress called up Albany supported the NRA, made donations to various parties and screamed at the top of my lungs. What else can I do? I don't have the money to run in any election and with my Background you really think I would win? What is there to do I find the people in the states that don't have to worry about this problem YET say the same thing. Now lets look at what happened in Cali today.... 50cal are banned......I see an erosion of gun by gun and state by state even though that state thinks they will be ok. Sure the AWB is dead let us see what will go into it's place. Now it is a free for all. The Anti Gunners are smart. You think they will allow COSMETICS get in the way the next time. They will go for not only that which the manufacture was able to sneak past, but also any type of CALIBER as well. You win the battle but the war still rages and trust me they will not be fooled again. We in NY and NJ along with some other places are Powerless against these A-Holes. There is no one to vote for and don't think that BUSH is really your friend. He is the biggest A-Hole of them all IMHO. Also what troubles me is Kerry is a Bigger one so who is left. AWB=Anti Gun Ban in the future except maybe single shot 22 rifles. They want to ban water pistols and Super Soakers do you really think your safe because you can have a Bayo-Lug Collapsible Stock and Flash Hider? |
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I'm confident that I can organize a march if anyone's not busy next Spring.
It'll need a catchy name, though. |
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What we need to do is get all those states with this problem together and have a march. From one State Capital to the other.
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hard-case, your point is well taken, but for one thing. Ray and I have the benefit of experience running this organization together over the past (almost) 2 years, to know that sugar-coating things doesn't work, because when it's "soft peddled", gun owners don't realize how really severe it is, and how important it is to be there - how desperately we need their help. The sense of urgency is lost in the subtlety of trying not to hurt anyone's feelings.
We're not saying that 60 is bad, we're saying that 600 would be better. I know the "vogue" in this new "Politically Correct" era is to build "self esteem" and congratulate people for what little they do. We take the "old fashioned" approach: LEAD BY EXAMPLE. Gun owners in this state must be made to realize what is necessary to accomplish the goal. Complacency is our own worst enemy. By illustrating through stark contrast and candid commentary our shortcomings, perhaps our community will figure out that nothing is going to change by sitting at home, and that it will take every one of us to get it to happen. So, if I give it to everyone hard and dirty, it's because I hold us to a higher standard that I know we're capable of meeting. Historically, the problem is that we've been "glad handed" by people who lull us into that state of complacency by causing us to feel that whatever we do - no matter how little - is fine. And that's the expectation that's met when our community rises to the standard of "a little is good enough". But, "good enough" isn't enough to win, and THAT'S why people don't show up to do things. Because nobody is telling the harsh truth that lack of commitment and involvement is why we're at the point we are. We have to do it better, harder, faster, louder and more effectively than our opposition, and FAR better than we've done up to now. We've been told by "gun rights" organizations that worry about their next donation that it's alright to just give money, but not give effort, and they'll "take care of it". Riiiiight. They did a great job, didn't they??? The reality is that we CAN win this thing, but not without everyone's help. At the end of the day, the last item to ponder is this. While you observed that there might be a potential "negative" message that could come across to a gun owner, we need to pause for a moment to consider how the lack of commitment and participation by others effects those who knocked themselves out trying to do something. Negative message? What of it? With gun owners, begging and pleading hasn't worked, so we have to whack 'em between the eyes to get them to see the problem. Sometimes you need to swat a fly with a sledgehammer. |
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