User Panel
Posted: 2/1/2007 10:22:04 AM EDT
Audio from debate added to website:
le.utah.gov/servlet/smil?int=56959 They're at it again. A bill was just introduced today by Senator Greg Bell. Strangely the test of the bill is blank at the moment. le.utah.gov/~2007/bills/sbillint/sb0251.htm Here's an e-mail from the U President:
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State Law says that it is legal for a permit holder to carry on campus. I didn't see that in his summary. They want to change the law to make it illegal. It is BS and doesn't make anyone safer.
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But he says they will feel safer and that's all that matters. |
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I resent the hell out of the President of the U going public with this before the text is available. I sent email to the contact listed in the email that went out from Young and got an out of office reply. The person taking emails will not be back until next week. Go figure!!
I will call my Senator and Rep but I need to know WTF is in the bill!! How the F$%! can the U be for a bill that is not written yet?? Or is it written and Bell is being a piece of shit and not wanting to disclose it until the last minute. I have to give the U some credit for at least trying to change the law instead of just ignoring it. However wrong they may be!! Although I have to wonder if this bill does not pass will they go back to ignoring state law? Steve |
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But if the State lets them start regulating it in pieces of campus, it won't be long before it's the whole campus. If they restrict them from dormitories and staff/faculty offices, that pretty much covers 75% of campus. I really want to see the text. Will it be just the offices or any building that has offices?
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Will someone please explain to me how you would feel safer if ONLY the bad guys had guns? If someone is willing to go to the extreme and break the law by shooting someone, how in the world are we supposed to think that he would decide against it because it was illegal to bring the gun to school? "OH NO! They are going to add 5 years to my two consecutive life sentences for going on a shooting spree and killing 4 people on campus because I illegally concealed my gun!" However, if one wanted to make the argument that having no guns on campus would mean there would be a less chance for an accidental shooting, how many people have accidentally been shot on campus? If they really wanted to feel safer, they should ban all automobiles on campus. Automobile accidents injure WAY more people on campus than shooting accidents. You would think these hippies would have already tried to do this because cars are causing global warming... I don't agree with everything Michael Savage says, but he hit the nail right on the head when he says, "Liberalism is a mental disorder." |
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Actually, the cops injure way more pedestrians on campus than anyone. They hit at least 3 or 4 a year. I guess we should start by banning them. |
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I worry that if the U gets its exemption, then the teacher's union will get CC in schools banned.
The church got their exemption; luckily this plague of mushy thinking has not spread any farther (yet). |
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Tribune article on it
Linky Legislation: Deal on guns is drawn up U. president says bill on campus safety is 'best option available' By Sheena McFarland and Nicole Stricker The Salt Lake Tribune Article Last Updated: 02/02/2007 01:50:24 AM MST Lawmakers and higher-education officials appear to have agreed on a bill that would enable universities to regulate guns in student dormitories and faculty and staff offices and put an end to a protracted legal battle over guns on campus. Sen. Gregory Bell, R-Fruit Heights, on Thursday confirmed he will sponsor SB251, which was not yet available to the public. But University of Utah President Michael Young has seen it and characterized it as "the best option available to us." If the bill passes, the U., which has led the fight for gun restrictions on campuses, will drop its federal lawsuit against the state, he said. "Our satisfaction level is sufficient to not pursue'' federal remedies, Young said. "I don't think it's optimal for state agencies to solve our differences through litigation." Most universities had policies banning guns before a 2004 Utah law allowed those holding concealed weapons permits to carry guns on campuses and in other previously protected areas. The U. sued over the law and eventually lost in the Utah Supreme Court last fall. In a Thursday letter to U. faculty, students and staff, Young acknowledged that "the bill is not all that we hoped for," but added that concessions regarding dorms and student and faculty offices "reflect the current legal and political realities." While the U. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Advertisement -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- could pursue further action in the federal courts, "a favorable outcome is not at all assured," Young wrote, emphasizing the bill may be the best route for ensuring safety on campus. "Coming to some common ground on this issue is important if we are to move forward." The bill is the result of meetings between higher education officials, legislative leaders and lawmakers representing gun-rights interests. They met during several weeks and Bell says they crafted language that will survive legislative scrutiny. He said the bill has a "good chance" of passing and that legislative leaders have been supportive. The legislation does face challenges. "I'm not comfortable with it yet," Rep. Curtis Oda, R-Clearfield, said after glancing through a draft Thursday. Clark Aposhian, chairman of Utah's Department of Public Safety Concealed Carry Review Board, disagrees with the bill's entire premise. "Until any entity including universities can show me an actual problem and then show me how banning firearms would solve that problem, I'm not inclined to support any type of a ban," he said. Young remains hopeful. "The negotiations proceeded on a very amicable basis," Young said. "I think we achieved something very useful in that we can assure parents, faculty and staff that [the U.] is a safe, compatible environment." --- * SHEENA MCFARLAND can be contacted at [email protected] or 801-257-8619. --- * NICOLE STRICKER can be contacted at [email protected] or 801-257-8999. |
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Remember the lobster in the pot on the stove - it started as a steam bath. Email your senators and house reps. - you can make a difference.
http://www.utah.gov/government/contactgov.html |
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I e-mailed mine yesterday but haven't heard back yet. Why are they keeping this a big secret from the public?
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Received a reply back from my Senator today:
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If thats all he said, its utter horse shit. |
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Yep. I took that as he doesn't support my opinion so it doesn't really matter. |
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Bah, all this crap is probably just an extra credit assignment for debate or some other crap, some of those hippy teachers really get off on this stuff. A guy in the group of people I went rabbit hunting with once was a teacher or a teachers aid (I found it hard to get a straight answer but in the end I just did not care) was very anti gun for a guy shooting at rabbits, He sure disliked my AK, that I brought for some after rabbit hunt fun.
Guy always reminded me of Brainy smurf growing up (If you don’t know he is an annoying know it all.) and he was always doing something profoundly stupid in scout outtings. Although after scorning me about owning such weapons he sure seemed to have fun with my 92FS. For some reason when I hear them complaining about CCW’s I think of him trying to build a bridge across a stream with sticks and then falling in when the sticks snap when he is trying to cross. |
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The section about not letting people room with those who have concealed weapons permits is... strange.
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I would equate it to discrimination. |
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Seperate but equal ring a bell?? Will CWP holders get there own drinking fountains? For a place that claims to be big on tolerance it is one of the least tolerant places!! Steve |
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The more I think about this the more problems I see. How will they know who has a CCW permit and who doesn't? The list is considered "protected" information according to state statute. Seeing as these firearms are supposed to be concealed at all times except in the necessary defense of life, will I be charged for brandishing when bringing it from concealment to place in the "secure facility"? Will the school be accepting liability for the firearms that are in the "secure facility"? If they are stolen, will the University reimburse me for the firearm. If said firearm is then used in a crime will I be liable? Will this "secure facility" be somewhere discreet so that everyone in the building will not see me check and then retrieve a firearm and then know that I am carrying a weapon? As soon as I can compile some info from the State Code regarding some of these issues I plan some letters to the papers and to my senator, reps and the senator who sponsored the legislation. |
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Reading that, I cant make sense of it. Seems poorly written... or maybe my leagalese is getting rusty. |
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Reading the bill doesn't it look like the individual staff/faculty member would have to request to be a gun free office?
Citizens are definitely never safe when the legislature is in session. |
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That's how I read it. They need to request in writing for the office to be "gun free". Appropriate notification will then need to be posted as well as installing a "secure facility" for firearms to be stored when someone is visiting that individual. I work on campus. My desk is in a fairly common area. One big "cubicle" with 5 desks attached to it. If one of my coworkers decides they don't want a firearm, what restrictions does that put on me since I share the work space? |
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The really silly thing about all this, is that everyone would be safer if carrying concealed wasnt an issue. No handling of firearms in the "secure storage area" equates to no negligent discharges, and the crooks cant steal the guns if they dont know who is carrying them, or where they are stored. They wouldnt know which offices contained armed facutly, and which were unarmed. Putting up a sign saying "NO GUNS" is the same as saying "Crime welcome here" Criminals fear armed citizens... not the laws they consistently break. |
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In the Trib today:
www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5173565
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This is infuriating.
I also work at a state school in Utah. Guys, PLEASE contact YOUR senators, as well as the senators on the rules committee: Senator Bill Hickman, Chairman (Washington County) [email protected] Senator Peter Knudson (Box Elder, Tooele, Cache County) [email protected] Home (435) 753-0043 Senator Chris Buttars (Salt Lake County) [email protected] Home (801)561-0535 Senator Gregory Bell (Davis County) [email protected] (cell) 801-971-2001 Senator Darin Peterson (central Utah counties) [email protected] Senator Gene Davis (Salt Lake County) [email protected] Home (801) 484-9428 Senator Ed Mayne (Salt Lake County) [email protected] Home (801) 968-7756 Fax number for all Senators at the Capitol: 801-326-1475 Senate switchboard at the Capitol: 801-538-1035 |
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Here is most of the text I included in my email.
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This is the email I received from the Utah Shooting Sports Council:
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The part in red is wrong, it has been legal to carry on campus since '95. the school was in violation of the law with their policy. The Supreme Court clarified this. Don't let anyone tell you different. I am going to call the hill tomorrow. |
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Well... Those retards in the committee have voted to send SB 251 to the floor as is. One of them argued that it would be better for us to pass the bill instead of having the UofU win their case in the federal court.
I think everyone from the public who testified were all against it. I thank all of those who were able to be at the meeting and show their opposition to the bill. I think one of you even got up to testify. One of these jokers after hearing that no one testified in favor of the bill said: "You know you have a good bill when everyone opposes it. Ha ha ha..." These two were the only ones to vote against it, as far as I could tell from the live audio feed. Sen. Lyle W. Hillyard Sen. Mark B. Madsen le.utah.gov/asp/interim/Commit.asp?Year=2007&Com=SSTJLC Angry39 |
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I was there, wearing my U pistol Hoodie...I didn't testify because many already had. Not a single teacher or student showed up to support the bill, there were at least 30 of us there to oppose it. I don't think some of those senators heard a single thing that was said, and many good points were presented.
Hatchet, which were you? |
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I was 3hrs south listening to the meeting live on the internet. I wish I could have been there in person. From listening to the senators after the people testified, it sure seemed like they had already sided with the UofU. They didn't hear a word from the public like you said atomicferret.
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I'm sure this had nothing to do with the fact that the chair of the committee is none other than the bill's sponsor and U of U Law School alum, Gregory S. Bell |
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Power of the people huh?
That's a bunch of BS. No one supports this bill but the University so we'll push it through anyways. I think I'm going to try and get cited so I can take it to court. Will removal of my firearm from concealment to be placed in the "secure facility" be considered brandishing? |
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I was the big, balding, guy with a goatee, in a blue suit that testified. I'm the one that brought up Trolley Square, their signs, and how the 2002 Appalacian Law School shooting was carried out in a faculty office, and stopped by two armed students.
We had an excellent showing. 24 people testified, and it was all good stuff. We knew going in that we were more than likely going to lose this meeting. In fact I was stunned that we got Hillyard. But we poked so damn many legal, moral, and tactical holes into this bill, that will now be discussed on the Senate floor. What you need to do now is contact your senators directly. Call them on the phone. Be polite. Bring up the following issues. -faculty office not defined. (anything that has a chair in it) -reasonable proximate lockers not defined (1,000 meters away probably sounds reasonable to the U) -There is no penalty for the U if they dont' install lockers. They still haven't installed lockers for the "secure meeting room" they got last session. -The law is poorly written, in such a way that this could be a violation of the secure facilities clause, and could be a potential felony. -The U already allows students to get different roomates for ANY reason. Singleing out CW people is unnceccesary. -It is illegal for BCI to publish a list of CCW holders, so the U would have to force people to self declare. -so faculty has no guns in their offices? So who protects students from faculty? There have been female students raped and sexually assaulted by faculty and staff in offices. -this is a defacto ban, because the U will make it so hard to comply with that students will leave their guns home. -concealed carry holsters are not designed for convenience, they are designed for comfort. Forcing students to draw, safe, and reholster their guns, everytime they move around campus is a safety issue. -Concealed means concealed. Students will be forced to give up their anonymity by going into these locker rooms. Those are some of the points brought up in the meeting last night. Now go and HAMMER your senators. |
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And here we are in the news: http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_5223644
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That was a really good read it sounded like the anti's had nothing good to say in defense. (Do they ever?)
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http://le.utah.gov/~2007/status/sbillsta/sb0251.001s.txt
This appears to mean it passed? I don't know what "PASSAGE 2 & 3 UNDER SUSP. RULES" means, but it sounds like it passed. ETA: It has passed and requires one more reading before going to the house. Time to contact our house representatives. http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_051185724.html |
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So we'll go ahead and vote for it anyways? Are these people elected to represent the views of their constituents. Drafting a letter to my rep now. |
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Here's my letter so far. Any changes I should make?
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So we will have to unarm(if this passes the house) to enter certain offices and everyone will know that I am packing. What would happen if I just open carried? What would the law be on this? My understanding is that open carry with a permit is legal. So why can't I open carry on the U? After all it would just be me exercising my second and first amendment rights at the same time!
Steve eta: If open carry on the U is legal it would be worth open carry just to watch the liberals have a coronary. Of course they would be back next year trying to shut this down. |
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I heard on the radio this morming that they stipped the dorm provisions. What remains of the bill passed the Senate but will most likely die in the house.
It sounded like the bills letting employees keep their weapons in their cars at work and not letting inns ban guns will pass. |
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Don't be so sure it will die in the house. I'm not hearing good vibes from there right now. Beat up on this thing as much as you can, and please, for the love of John Moses Browning, call your rep!
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I cannot believe that this horseshit is still dragging on and on and on and on and on and on...
I left there a year and half ago and came to Virginia. Why is it so hard for them to get it through their thick skulls that it is none of their business. Why is it so hard for the educational establishment to live and let live, the free exchange of ideas, et al. No, they have to dictate everyone's lives in their little world. |
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