Whats a higher priority for the good old Vancouver Police???

Had my truck broken into this morning. Yes this morning in the daylight with the alarm blazing and nobody saw anything. Finger prints everywhere even on clean glass and do you think they would even show up to take the report or anything? They ramsacked the shed in the back yard and trampled the bushes near our windows also and do you think they would show up for that? Maybe make sure nobody was in the house? Footprints leading to the neighbors house and would they come by and ask some questions?? Nope, not even close...Phone report...

Heres the kicker...The theives, I can only assume more than one to carry all the shit they stole, left someones pressure washer in my front yard since they got some better shit from my truck. Guess what the Local PD came by to get?? If you guessed a report you are wrong. They wanted the pressure washer. I told them to go fly a kite. When and if they get a report of one missing I will turn it over to the owner. They only took a report over the phone for truck theft but they would come by for lost and found. $2500 of damage about $1700 in theft and they won't even come by...

Do I sound frustrated?? I am spinning out on this one....

Anyway what are the priorities for our guys behind the badge here locally? I am sure it has to be something they are told to do and nothing on a personal level or course so this is not a flame on the personal level. Does anyone that has ties know LOCALLY?? This is freakin' ridiculous...

I had a similar thing happen to me when I was living in Michigan.  I came home from work only to walk in on robbers who had come up the fire escape, bashed the window over my bed and take several trips up and down the fire escape to rob me.  I was working double shifts at my college, it was spring break, all my roommates had gone home for the week.  I grabbed the phone and locked myself in the bathroom.

  The police took two hours to get there.  I asked if they had had a crazy night... they said, no, it's dead, with Spring Break and all....   bastards.  They didn't take prints or do anything but check that they guy wasn't there anymore.  

I felt the same frusteration when we were burgled. Stadank wouldn't do anything other than take a report. I guess he did do that much. He did however bust the neighbor kid behind the fence smoking a joint!

You didn't tell them you had a friendly dog?

And they don't understand why people are chasing down these sh!tbags and shooting them. It  is happening more often and will continue until something is done, other than a BS phone, your not that important, report.

 DD

Hey man thats fucked up , sorry about the bad luck.  I live in Vancouver also, where about do you live?  I'm near 164th and 1st.   Hope some thing turns up.  Fucking people these days.  

I hope the little bastards find a house that has a hungry AIDS infected pitbull to chew on them.  

A bullet would be too quick.

Been there done that. Why call in the first place. Fucking cops don't and can't do a damn thing. I hav lost $40K to theft. I got one POS truck back out of all of it.  

I am in Orchards so a little ways from Cascade Park, but this whole area is going to shit. The kids are getting that age once again in our neighborhood so I am in for a rough road. The Alarm on the truck didn't stop them but the teeth in the house did. The dogs are getting some extra treats tonight since they are probably the only reason they left the house alone.

Gee, I wonder why all the LEO's on this forum are silent! How about that BS that happened in downtown Seattle recently. Two soldiers just back from the sand box get jumped by some gangbangers who beat them up and put the 2 GI's in the hospital. One of the witnesses stated that there was a Seattle police officer standing across the street watching it go down and did nothing to stop it. I guess it must have interfered with his donut break! ....and the cops wonder why the citizens no longer respect them!

WOW, Reading this thread makes me feel like im at work...
Im going to G.D. now...

I feel your pain Belial,

Had the same story. Break-in, two hours to respond, no call back from detectives for three days. Finally I call and rant. They come to take prints. We give list of items. They never even looked in local pawn shops. I know, 'cause I did. They are Law Enforcement. They do not protect us or our gear. That's our job. Dogs. Alarms with armed response. Pugi pits. Claymores. Video cams to ID the creeps so revenge can be obtained at opportune time.

Bitter? Nooooooooooo.

I'm pretty fumed over an incident here in Seattle that the police seem to have dropped the ball on.

Last September my girlfriend was walking to the bus stop at 5:45am in N. Seattle. A car pulled up and parked in a driveway in front of her and two big black women jumped out the back and demanded her backpack. She refused and a struggle ensued that involved one of them holding her and the other punching her and ripping her backpack from her. My GF fought back but ended up getting a good shiner out of the deal. They got her backpack with some cash, important documents (including one with our address), and our housekey.

She managed to memorize the license plate number and gave that, along with a description of the two women to the police. I was very happy that she wasn't hurt more. We had to change the locks and keep alert lest the human filth think they can come let themselves in with the housekey.

The cops ran the plate and traced it to a guy that lives in a rundown house behind Lynnwood Guns. The kicker is that when questioned, this guy said the car was his (ie not stolen) and that he had "loaned it out and couldn't remember to whom". A few months later my GF looked at some mug shots, but thats pretty much the end of the story.

It has taken all my self control to just stay cool and hope the cops take care of business.

I'm not impressed though.

Fred

Well LEO's, I know you guys read these threads. What do you have to say? You just can't pull yourself away from that donut to respond! I used to respect you guys at one time until a few years ago when I was ticketed by an Edmonds cop on a phony seat belt charge. I was doing 20mph in a 25mph zone and he said I was doing 34mph  so that gave him PC to pull me over and ticket me for the seat belt violation (which was a secondary violation at that time). I challenged the ticket in court and lost because the phony judge (who was later exposed for corruption) wanted my money. That was an awakening for me. I saw the judicial system for the sham that it is. As an American it sickens me. Rant Over!

The same bunch of Sno county deputies used to stop for coffee at the same Starbuck's I frequent. They would regularly get calls on the radio, acknowledge they were "rolling" and continue to drink their coffee and converse.  One morning particularly me off. Deputy took a call about a breakin in progress, see the WOMAN at some address. He responds that he's rolling and stays there for 15 more minutes. I finally leaned over and rather loudly told him he'd better hope that wasn't my wife calling about a breakin. Bunch of blank stares but they all suddenly had to go.

The dog was at home fortunately.  

Quoted: Tagged

WTF does Tagged mean? I've seen it before on other threads but I don't understand what it means.

Quoted: The same bunch of Sno county deputies used to stop for coffee at the same Starbuck's I frequent. They would regularly get calls on the radio, acknowledge they were "rolling" and continue to drink their coffee and converse.  One morning particularly me off. Deputy took a call about a breakin in progress, see the WOMAN at some address. He responds that he's rolling and stays there for 15 more minutes. I finally leaned over and rather loudly told him he'd better hope that wasn't my wife calling about a breakin. Bunch of blank stares but they all suddenly had to go. The dog was at home fortunately.

Since I enter calls for the SCSO, Im calling BullShit!...

We dont say "See the Woman", and They dont say "Rolling"...

Quoted: Since I enter calls for the SCSO, Im calling BullShit!... We dont say "See the Woman", and They dont say "Rolling"...

The latter defines the motion of their eyes and mid sections.

Quoted: Well LEO's, I know you guys read these threads. What do you have to say? You just can't pull yourself away from that donut to respond! I used to respect you guys at one time until a few years ago when I was ticketed by an Edmonds cop on a phony seat belt charge. I was doing 20mph in a 25mph zone and he said I was doing 34mph  so that gave him PC to pull me over and ticket me for the seat belt violation (which was a secondary violation at that time). I challenged the ticket in court and lost because the phony judge (who was later exposed for corruption) wanted my money. That was an awakening for me. I saw the judicial system for the sham that it is. As an American it sickens me. Rant Over!

What are you requesting here? Do you want some Bellevue officer to come in and ask for forgiveness for what happened in Vancouver or allegedly happened in Edmonds?

What fool did you have representing you in court?

BUMMER TO HEAR THAT MARTY....I TOO, LIVE IN ORCHARDS.....WAS IT VANCOUVER POLICE, OR THE CLARK COUNTY SHERIFFS DEPT, WE GET 'RESPONSE' FROM THE SHRERIFFS DEPT OUT HERE.....USUALLY A HOUR OR TWO LATER AFTER YOU CALL...AFTER A COUPLE OF INCIDENTS, I'VE LOST ALL RESPECT FOR THESE BOZOS....ONE TOLD MY WIFE HE COULD 'DO ANYTHING HE WANTED TO'....
USED TO BE IF I SAW A COP PINNED DOWN I'D OF HELPED...NOW I'D LIKELY 'CALL' THE SHOTS FOR THE PERP....HE'D PROBABLY HAVE GOOD REASON TO SHOOT AT THEM...
DOGS...BIG DOGS....ALL THAT SEEMS TO WARK ANYMORE....
--CARLOS

Quoted: What are you requesting here? Do you want some Bellevue officer to come in and ask for forgiveness for what happened in Vancouver or allegedly happened in Edmonds? What fool did you have representing you in court?

What am I requesting here? I don't recall requesting the Bellevue PD to ask for forgiveness for the transgressions of the Edmonds PD. BTW, lets get it straight there was nothing "alleged" about what that dirty Edmonds cop pulled on me. The Edmonds PD has a reputation for feeding on the citizens. Who was the bozo representing me in court. I am the bozo. I represented myself. I'll admit that I didn't do a good job because I'm not a lawyer by trade. I don't think it would have made any difference anyway because the judge was crooked. His name was Stephen Conray. I  remember seeing his picture on the front page of the Everett Herald a few months after he screwed me over. he resigned under threat of disbarment. As for the crooked cop, I just hope God took care of him the way he took care of the crooked judge. Now lets get back to your original question. What do I want? I want every cop who is a member or lurker on the ARFCOM website to read this thread and possibly do some soul searching. The cops have a problem whether they want to admit it or not. (Cops are not very good at admitting they have problems!) This country has changed. It's not the same old US of A that I once knew. It has become a corporate police state. The average citizens in this country know there is something very wrong with our congress and the judicial system and those who enforce it. The average citizen has lost respect for the government and the police. I just hope some of the cops who read this forum will sit back and take pause for a moment and seriously decide in their heart of hearts to honor their oath to protect and serve and uphold the US Constitution by not enforcing (disregarding) bad laws imposed by their superiors. You can not be loyal to 2 masters. It's either the US Constitution and the Godly principles the country was founded on or the corporate socialist police state. That's the choice there is no middle ground. This country is going down the tube pretty fast I just hope the average cop can make the right choice and regain the respect of the community and work towards returning this country to it's constitutional foundations. That's what I want.

As stated in my original post I am not flaming the Department or individuals Officers for what they do or don't do for that matter. I was just hoping maybe some of our Officers on the board might try to shed some light on this situation as to where the priorities are. I don't feel singled out or anything just frustrated about how this went down. Even on the outside looking, opposed to the inside looking out, this makes no sense at all priority wise.

Although I do appreciate the responses to let me know I am not alone

Quoted: Quoted: ........That's what I want. Might be a bit larger request than you know... There are good AND bad in EVERY group of people. Teachers, parents, kids, politicians ..... even women, forum members, and LEOs. Calling on your peers in a volunteer forum, to be accountable for a case they have no personal involvement in, is a bit of a stretch IMHO. Your fight is elsewhere, not here.

You apparently did not read my last post. I stated that I want LEO's to abide by the US Cosnstitution and not serve 2 masters, the State being the primary master. I also stated that I want LEO's to make a concious decision not to enforce unconstitutional laws imposed by the State. "I did not call on my peers in a volunteer forum to be accountable for a case they have no personal involvement in," as you stated.

Quoted: Gee, I wonder why all the LEO's on this forum are silent!

Probably because I was doing other things, I know its shocking and hard for you to understand.  After reading your other replies on this thread, I won't give you the satisfaction of seeing my reply to Belial, but he will get an honest answer.

As is typical, the comments in here will fous on everything people have ever seen, and don't understand.  Somehow, you believe you have all the answers anyway, even though in truth, you are too ignorant to even understand your own lack of knowledge.

The above comment is directed at the minority of the WA posters, as the majority are solid and good people.

Quoted: Quoted: The same bunch of Sno county deputies used to stop for coffee at the same Starbuck's I frequent. They would regularly get calls on the radio, acknowledge they were "rolling" and continue to drink their coffee and converse.  One morning particularly me off. Deputy took a call about a breakin in progress, see the WOMAN at some address. He responds that he's rolling and stays there for 15 more minutes. I finally leaned over and rather loudly told him he'd better hope that wasn't my wife calling about a breakin. Bunch of blank stares but they all suddenly had to go. The dog was at home fortunately.   Since I enter calls for the SCSO, Im calling BullShit!... We dont say "See the Woman", and They dont say "Rolling"...

Whatever.

It was a bunch of cop gibberish and an address. The dispatch did tell the cop to talk to the woman at the residence. Cop acknowledged and sat there. I'll record for you next time.  

Update...

I put a sign in my front yard with a Reward offer of informantion leading to the arrest of the thieves who did this. I have had several solid leads and several neighbors that are at the end of the road like myself. "The" neighbor that the footprints in the wet grass lead to came by to ask about the break in. Ready for the good part??? He asked how much damage was done to the truck. I told him about $2500 from what the repair shop said not to mention the stereo. He then says,  "Wow, they did that much damage getting your speaker box and amps out?" Since that information was never given out I said that is pretty interesting that you know what was stolen and that I would gladly forward that information to the Police. He then pulled his beer away from his mouth and left my yard. What an idiot...Stress---The feeling you get when you try not to choke the living shit outta someone who desperately deserves it.

The positive in all of this is that we met more decent neighbors from all around with this sign in our yard which caused a great deal of awarness. The two biggest problems in our subdivision have been pointed out, and there are several of the good guys all really really looking out for each other as of this point. Hopefully one of us will chatch someone with thier pants down.

In the meantime I am turning into that grumpy old bastard in the neighborhood!!!!

Okay, I'll bite and answer up.  I work in a city that contracts for police services from the county.  Most of the time I am the only deputy in the city (of 16,000 or so).

In the case that you are describing, there was no suspect information...at that point you, me and everyone else are working for the insurance company by taking a report.  As for fingerprints...CSI on TV has done us a great disservice.  Add to that, after being in this line of work for a little while, I've seen in court that a fingerprint isn't the key piece of evidence that it should be.  It shows that "dude" touched your truck...on the inside is a little more incriminating, but prints on the outside of your vehicle are next to useless if he has a lawyer with two brain cells chasing each other around inside his shrunken little head.

I don't know what the manning situation is in Vancouver, but, I can imagine that it can't be much different than in my city/county - we are way understaffed.  If that bugs you, as it should, call your city council as the Police Chief or Sheriff doesn't control the purse strings.  When we are understaffed, theft reports, like yours, usually get taken over the phone so that we have time to take reports where someone is in custody, or it is a felony/crime against a person.  Also remember that writing a police report takes an hour or two or three depending on how complex the crime happens to be.  So while I'm doing that, calls, like yours, stack up.  They stack up even further when I have to go take care of in-progress things.  So, by the end of the day, I have been dropping what I'm doing with cold calls (like the one you described) to deal with stuff where I might catch someone in the act...but if I don't, then I have to take a report from them as well.  So, at the end of my 8-hour day, I'm usually way behind.  Do you think that the already cash-strapped .gov agency is going to pay me overtime to finish my paperwork?  Nope.  They tell me to hold it 'till tomorrow.  That way, when I walk in the next day, I'm already a couple cases behind...then in progress stuff happens...as you can see the cycle continues.

I thank the Lord that we take phone reports.  I would never get a chance to be pro-active on the few days that I'm not churning out paperwork.  That gives me the rare opportunity to stop cars that leave the known drug house, or work the litany of speeding complaints that get phoned in, or drive around and run plates in the park-and-ride to find the dumped stolen cars and get them back to their owners...the list goes on, and it never seems to end.

But, on days when I'm down six case reports - and I'm the only game in town, I love to meet folks like you who want to make me the asshole for their car getting broken into.  It add's a special bit of joy to my otherwise dull day.  They usually have clever things to say about seeing all of us at the coffee shop, or at dinner - which are always original and make me laugh.  They usually call and complain to my boss when I ask if they get coffee, or get a chance to eat at their job.  Being a cop, after all, is JUST MY JOB - it is not who I am.  Just as those on this site wish to remind me and those in my profession TIME AND TIME AGAIN that we are no better or worse than a regular guy.  I agree wholeheartedly.  I am a guy doing a job, no more, no less.  As for me, I'm doing the best I can - trying to keep the peace, solve a little crime and keep my efforts directed against bad guys and not other working guys who happen not to have signalled 100' before changing lanes...    

Anyway.  Sorry your car got prowled.  I really am.  I wish there was more we could do.  The sad fact is we are OVERWHELMED with crime.  Most of it isn't serious, cops and robbers shooting it out in the streets stuff, but things like what happened to you that are a real pain in the ass and will probably never get solved.  Keep in mind too that for about every 5-10 marked cars you see, there is one Detective following up on those cases....so if we all do just two burglaries a week, that is between 10-20 cases a week, 40-80 cases a month...you see where I am going with that.

Lots of food for thought, I hope.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The same bunch of Sno county deputies used to stop for coffee at the same Starbuck's I frequent. They would regularly get calls on the radio, acknowledge they were "rolling" and continue to drink their coffee and converse.  One morning particularly me off. Deputy took a call about a breakin in progress, see the WOMAN at some address. He responds that he's rolling and stays there for 15 more minutes. I finally leaned over and rather loudly told him he'd better hope that wasn't my wife calling about a breakin. Bunch of blank stares but they all suddenly had to go. The dog was at home fortunately.   Since I enter calls for the SCSO, Im calling BullShit!... We dont say "See the Woman", and They dont say "Rolling"... Whatever. It was a bunch of cop gibberish and an address. The dispatch did tell the cop to talk to the woman at the residence. Cop acknowledged and sat there. I'll record for you next time.

No need to record it, If you give me the area of the county and the approx time, I already have it on tape!


BTW: Stick and M1, You can give some people all the Food for thought they could want, and they will still starve themselves to death....

Quoted: I guess it must have interfered with his donut break! ....and the cops wonder why the citizens no longer respect them!

Quoted: Well LEO's, I know you guys read these threads. What do you have to say? You just can't pull yourself away from that donut to respond

We don't respond to predjudiced asshats who have donut fixations and would rather call people names that have a serious converstion.

Belial -Sorry for your loss. Today's reality is that the police cannot be there 100% of the time and will not always do the job we expect. In the decade I've been doing my job, I have lost the ability to do many things once considered crucial to my job. It's liability and the politics of upper managment that that have hamstrung the officers.  Chief's and Mayors are more concered about image and statistics than police work.

I had an incident where I was hit and the driver took off. After I and witnesses chased him for 3 miles, officers arrived as I was pulling him out through the window. I was almost arrested for assault, when the witnesses old them what happened.  Even though my car sustained $2500.00 in damage the other driver was not arrested or even cited.  So. I went up the ladder to the Lt, Capt and Chief. They all ended up apologizing forthe incomptent work ofthe officer involved and he was disciplined.

I don't like the cop bashing. As far as I know, they are here on their own time to do what they want to do. Sometimes they share what they know and I appreciate it, but they aren't obligated to answer for the LEO community. The main difference between a sheriff and a deputy is that the deputy has to know how to read. A sheriff can get elected without that skill.

I'm not going to hold the professionals responsible for their appointed or elected bosses.

Quoted: Whats a higher priority for the good old Vancouver Police??? Had my truck broken into this morning. Yes this morning in the daylight with the alarm blazing and nobody saw anything. Finger prints everywhere even on clean glass and do you think they would even show up to take the report or anything? They ramsacked the shed in the back yard and trampled the bushes near our windows also and do you think they would show up for that? Maybe make sure nobody was in the house? Footprints leading to the neighbors house and would they come by and ask some questions?? Nope, not even close...Phone report... Heres the kicker...The theives, I can only assume more than one to carry all the shit they stole, left someones pressure washer in my front yard since they got some better shit from my truck. Guess what the Local PD came by to get?? If you guessed a report you are wrong. They wanted the pressure washer. I told them to go fly a kite. When and if they get a report of one missing I will turn it over to the owner. They only took a report over the phone for truck theft but they would come by for lost and found. $2500 of damage about $1700 in theft and they won't even come by... Do I sound frustrated?? I am spinning out on this one.... Anyway what are the priorities for our guys behind the badge here locally? I am sure it has to be something they are told to do and nothing on a personal level or course so this is not a flame on the personal level. Does anyone that has ties know LOCALLY?? This is freakin' ridiculous...

Marty,
Sorry to hear about the loss and sense of violation. I have had similar experiences when I lived over in Portland, although with nowhere near the amount of loss and damage that you experienced, but the sense of violation was there none the less

I do have to say that my one experience with Vancouver PD was favorable. My meth-head brother stole my Les Baer (along with my identity) and pawned it while I had it stored at my moms place. They were able to track it down and finally recover it, but it took more than a year before I finally got it back. I hope you are able to have the same good fortune.

As a side note, I hope to be moving back up to the area, and hope I have the opportunity to go shooting with you and some of the other locals. If there is anything I can help you with when I am back up there, don't hesitate to ask.

Take care and best wishes!
Dave

Quoted: In the meantime I am turning into that grumpy old bastard in the neighborhood!!!!

You just need some medication.

Quoted: Quoted: In the meantime I am turning into that grumpy old bastard in the neighborhood!!!! You just need some medication. pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/858902/2680110/66356415.jpg

NOOOOO don't medicate, just be grumpy.  Grumpyness is normal.  mood altering drugs are BAD.  except for caffeine... and chocolate

ETA dammit my computer didn't load the pic the first time, I was wondering why phil was condoning mood enhancers...  he broke up with a girl once because she said she was on something...  what was it, prozac?   Anyway, beer good. whiskey, bad

Quoted: I was wondering why phil was condoning mood enhancers...  he broke up with a girl once because she said she was on something...  what was it, prozac?   Anyway, beer good. whiskey, bad

That wasn't breaking up that was running away from the first and only date with her when she not only decided to reveal that she took prozac, but took them on the date.  Then there was the entire issue if disassembling her hambuger into food groups ie bun (grains) lettuce, tomato and such (vegetables) and the hamburger patty (meat), I think if the cheese would have come off easily she would have sperated that too,  and eating them with a knife and fork as if they were seperate parts of a meal.

She had crazy written all over her and not in a good way.


Run Forrest Run!

Quoted: Quoted: I was wondering why phil was condoning mood enhancers...  he broke up with a girl once because she said she was on something...  what was it, prozac?   Anyway, beer good. whiskey, bad That wasn't breaking up that was running away from the first and only date with her when she not only decided to reveal that she took prozac, but took them on the date.  Then there was the entire issue if disassembling her hambuger into food groups ie bun (grains) lettuce, tomato and such (vegetables) and the hamburger patty (meat), I think if the cheese would have come off easily she would have sperated that too,  and eating them with a knife and fork as if they were seperate parts of a meal. She had crazy written all over her and not in a good way. Run Forrest Run!

Prozac or other mood regulaters are drugs that you have to take everyday, date or not, or they won't work.  Sort of like the birth control pill.  You take it everyday, not just the days you have sex.  What if I got preggers, gave birth to your damned kid, then had post-partum depression and had to take some drug for it... ?

Don't make me scream out the name "Tom Cruise" the next time we have sex...

Quoted: Prozac or other mood regulaters are drugs that you have to take everyday, date or not, or they won't work.  Sort of like the birth control pill.  You take it everyday, not just the days you have sex.  What if I got preggers, gave birth to your damned kid, then had post-partum depression and had to take some drug for it... ?

Do you think you're going to get away that easily?  

Quoted: Quoted: Prozac or other mood regulaters are drugs that you have to take everyday, date or not, or they won't work.  Sort of like the birth control pill.  You take it everyday, not just the days you have sex.  What if I got preggers, gave birth to your damned kid, then had post-partum depression and had to take some drug for it... ? Do you think you're going to get away that easily?

Notice, I didn't say we were married, I can still get away any time I want.  

Marraige=bad, trapped state of being that involves government permission to leave someone. no, thank you

Quoted: Marraige=bad, trapped state of being that involves government permission to leave someone. no, thank you

Sad, pitiful....I've never been so happy, myself.

m1tanker

Thanks for the insight and I can understand your position especially with some of the info you posted. Let me say that you couldn't pay me enough to do your job and I am glad we have guys that will step up and do this for us.

Once again I wasn't in anyway trying to turn this into a flame war, but more in stating frustration in politics involved in the aftermath. While I understand the boys in uniform are spread way to thin and this type of incedent probably didn't warrant Cruisers skidding in sideways there is no consistancy with how they handle things around here. My frustrations have been followed up with emails and calls to the powers to be. Sorry we can't take a report in person but hey we can come get that pressure washer right away doesn't set well with me under any circumstance. Maybe a timing issue with how busy things are, maybe not. Either way doesn't matter at this point. I at this point have to assume that we are as much responsible for taking care of our own as anyone. Alot of awarness has come of this incedent so its only a matter of time before one of these slime balls will get his.

Quoted: Quoted: Marraige=bad, trapped state of being that involves government permission to leave someone. no, thank you Sad, pitiful....I've never been so happy, myself.

I'm glad it's going well for you, but I believe that I can be better committed to someone without having it be government certified and approved.

Commitment is commitment, with or without the piece of paper

Quoted: Quoted: Marraige=bad, trapped state of being that involves government permission to leave someone. no, thank you Sad, pitiful....I've never been so happy, myself.

+1