This Saturday, Golden Corral, 76th Ave and Thomas Road in Phx. It is on the south side of Thomas Road, West of 75th Ave.
7pm, We have have the room right now, and might be able to get the rest,

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

Will you be wearing your penile compensator this time?

Why don't you get off the computer and find out by being there.

Clyde

Why do you have a problem with people doing irreparable damage to the image of gun owners?

I don't, I have a problem with people who think it's all about "image", you've succumbed to the antis without a fight.    PC is a computer, not an attitude.

So, will we be seeing  you there or not?

Clyde

I'll be there with my Mac-10... Oh wait, I don't have a holster for It!

And for the nay sayers here's a pre-emptive:

Even though I don't have an issue with gays, and believe they can do whatever they want with their personal lives, I won't show up to a gay rights rally with dumbfucks running around in assless chaps.



That kind of person is no friend of rights.



Your actions hurt us more than doing nothing.  OC is no big deal in AZ.  I see it every day.  Most people don't give a shit. Until they see people like you running around with AR15 pistols in thigh rigs.  That has the potential to excite people in a bad way.



Is it legal?  Fuck yeah.  I don't care if you do it in your day to day life, but I won't attend an event promoting open carry which has as its leader, someone who clearly does not understand the psychology of the sheeple.  





 

How'd ya guess?



Every single person (in the gun-rights arena) I've mentioned this situation to has said "What a fucking idiot."



This includes folks who have done far more for our rights than kenpoprofessor will ever do.  



 

I have a feeling that this thread is gonna go south, so I'm gonna add my two cents before it does.

I'm all for these OC dinners - I think they are a good idea. However, if you have a dinner where the specific intention is to show a positive and respectable image of gun owners, and then show up with a weapon that, quite frankly, scares people, then you are going to give the wrong impression. What do you think the restaurant patrons from the last OC dinner left with in their minds:
A) an image of intelligent, respectable, and good gun owners
or
B) the crazy looking guy with the big 'assault weapon' strapped to his leg.

I have not "given in" to the PC crowd, nor have I "succumbed without a fight to the antis"; quite the opposite in fact. The problem is that when people who are uninformed about guns, and that's a majority of the people out there, go to the polls to vote, they think of only assholes drinking beer and shooting signs on forest roads - not doctors, businessmen, and working professionals who carry guns as their everyday routine, shoot competitively, etc. The more we can do to promote a strong positive image, the better.

Attracting negative attention, especially when it's from your own side of the fence, is never a good thing.

Clyde

Open Carry with ASSLESS chaps would be a great way to spread the message!

I wish you well, but I won't go. The AR-15 pistol carry is a deal breaker.

Are you serious?





You think that our opinion that carrying an AR15 pistol compares to Zumbo?  You really have lost it, brother.





It's legal to open carry more than 1 pistol.  Why don't you get a couple AR15 pistols and a couple AK pistols and carry them all at once.  Oh yeah, and its also legal to wear a shirt that says "Open carry is fucking legal you whiny pieces of liberal shit".  You could wear that too, with all your pistols.  That would show 'em whose boss.





Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.





Arizona is one of the most free states in the union when it comes to firearms freedoms.  People open carry every day, all over the state.  It's no big deal.  Until people like you, with nothing better to do, come along and want to shove the issue in people's faces.  I have no problem with open carry get togethers.  I think its a fun idea.  However, I think its "in your face" types like you, who actually damage us.





Look at the illegal march for a great example.  Many people were ignorant of them, and pretty much just said fuck it.  That is, until they saw a hundred thousand of them marching through the streets waving Mexican flags.  The loudest and most obnoxious of any group tend to ruin it for the rest of us.  It's too bad you can't see that.  
 

Count me in.
It's a short drive for me from Cashun.
Jay

Shit!  We should just move the dinner to Cashun!

I'm strapping my Kel Tec P3AT in the venerable .380 acp round on a custom thigh rig I had made just for this event!

And there we have it. I have begun to call this either the Clyde or Zumbo Rule. Its like Godwin's Law on the internet. The longer you disagree with Clyde, the more likely it will be that you will be called or compared to Zumbo.

Dude its like you're reading my mind!

For me the deal breaker is that shirt. Dude, stop it! You're making my eyes hurt!

Nothing but love Clyde!

Less gun, more shirt this time

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

The only place to eat I could find in Cashon, is in Cashon, Washington: CRAP!!!!!
I was so looking forward to seeing that custom thigh rig.

Jay

Oh fuck, here we go again.....











Bear

Well, the similarity in argument is strikingly similar isn't it?     Zumbo was all about "image" and got called on it, Uncle Ted had to show him the way.

Clyde

No I don't think it is all that similar at all, actually. I think it is a huge jump to someone not thinking carrying an AR pistol openly is appropriate to calling someone Zumbo. I think doing or saying something merely for shock value or causing a scene when it is not necessary is counterproductive to any issue or cause, as others have said. I think that anytime anyone disagrees with you, you pull the Zumbo card, usually out of left field or making a drastic jump, IMHO.

You seem to be ready to make judgements on people you have never met, as you did me on AZS and several others here and there, yet complained when someone on AZS did the same to you recently. I find that extremely hypocritical.

ETA: I think you are probably a decent guy, Clyde, and have good intentions, I just disagree with your methods is all.

I feel like I missed a big piece of information somewhere, but can't tell if I would care to know.  






 

Here ya go

This is probably the most important post from that thread.
 

So if not an image, just what exactly do you expect to accomplish on these open carry dine outs? I thought the whole purpose of these open carry dinners was to portray gun owners in a positive light.

What do you think goes through the mind of someone who is on the fence with gun issues when they see you carrying an ar15 pistol on your leg?

I strongly believe you are doing all gun owners a huge disservice with your attention whoring shenanigans. You are bringing negative and unwanted attention to open carry. You admitted on azshooting that you wanted the attention and that you wanted to "scare the sheeple". Just what good do you think you're doing with your actions?

Since your arguments both here and on azshooting are predictably weak and pathetic, let me save you some typing. For disagreeing with you that must mean I'm an elitist, politically correct, Zumbo supporting anti who hates freedom and wants to ban all guns.

Maybe we can all chip in and buy Kenpo this shirt for when he OC's his AR15 pistol everywhere....
http://www.founditemclothing.com/t-shirts/gfx/guns-shirt/guns-shirt.jpg

Bullshit. Zumbo was about him thinking that 2A protected hunting rights. He had no idea what 2A was really about and so he hated the very guns are should be mandated by 2A.

This is about a bunch of people that know full well what 2A is about, but they think that your stupid antics give a bad impression of open carry and thus do harm to the cause.

Will there be pudding?

Quoted:

I think the point that Mudbug was trying to make about gays vs. radical gay activists has to do more with the effectiveness of their "extremism" versus just being gay. I don't know how many times I've seen comments about how radical gay activists are just trying to "shove it down people's throats" (pun intended?? I don't know) when it comes to "demonstrating" for the rights they perceive they're being denied.

Regardless of what you or I might think, Clyde, the battle really does need to take perception into account. Those definitely for, or definitely against, gun rights will not be swayed one way or another by the type of firearm you carry. I am pro-rights, and while I may not agree on your choice of firearm for your activism, it's not my choice to make. Those who are anti-rights would hate it if you carried a Jennings .22 concealed. These people aren't the "hearts and minds" we're trying to convince.

It's the undecided or marginally apathetic who we're after.

You may recall several years ago when all those illegals decided to get "up in our face" with their huge demonstrations for "illegal alien rights". I think you'll agree with me that the decision of the militant pro-illegal activists to stage huge marches backfired on them. More than a couple of my neighbors were marginally pro-illegal before the marches. "They're here..why don't we just let them stay?" types. I discussed with them the concept of allowing a burglar to stay in your home since, well, they were already there, depressed wages, etc. "They just want to come here and better themselves" was one of many justifications they replied with.

Now, live on TV, were hundreds of thousands of these illegals, demanding their "rights" to remain, etc. They abused the American flag, and flew the Mexican flag to show their cause.

This incensed my otherwise "live and let live" neighbors. No longer could they ignore the truth that the militant pro-illegal activists goal wasn't just to allow them to remain, but to DEMAND whatever it was they were demanding, and at the same time abusing the very system that permitted them to make these demands.

They are now anti-illegal immigrant. And I would wager that these demonstrations turned more Americans against the illegals than became convinced of their cause. All these radical protests did was to "preach to the choir" for those predisposed to support illegals, disgust those like us who are against them, and help those on the fence decide to become anti-illegal. I can't think of a single story, report, etc., where someone against or marginal was suddenly in favor of granting illegals "rights".

Do you think these marches helped or hurt those who had been working with Congress and state legislatures on behalf of "illegal's rights"? Was their job made easier or more difficult after these legislators and Congress-types started receiving the hundreds (if not thousands) of phone calls from newly minted "go home" policy supporters?

The same can be said of your decision to OC the AR15 pistol. Again, not my choice, but one you are legally and morally able to make here in Arizona. Wearing it won't change my pro-gun opinion, nor would it change the anti-gun opinion of a Kyrsten Sinema type. But what of the recent 'transplant' who marginally understands that guns are legal in Arizona...and, "whoa, people can carry them openly?"...to "oh shit, they can fucking carry machineguns on their hips? WTF is up with that? I'll have to contact my legislator on that....."

If I read Mudbug correctly, that's the concept behind his commentary on the dinner you had, and the comparison to the militant gay-rights activists.

In the end, we're on the same side...just that our tactics are different. Radical activism has a role in the overall scheme, as long as you understand what that role is...been there, done that and, under the right circumstances, will do it again.
This I like.

People need to listen to TimW. There is a small core group of people that have been on the case of freedom and 2A rights here in AZ for years, and Tim has been there for a long time.

mmmmmm pudding, chocolate or vanilly?  I prefer vanilly!!!

As far as "extremism goes", A) look at my sig line. B) so long as it's done tastefully, there's no issue with it. The only problem you might run into is people will think you're plain clothes cops. No one is going to really mind glocks, 1911s, revolvers, etc. But show up with an AK, and you'll have everyone thinking your a right wing, baby killing, school shooting McCain supporter. Keep it classy.

Sling it anyway you like, it's still a Zumboism.   I think Zumbo knew full well what the 2A is about, yet he defied common sense when making the statement he did.     Guess those right wing extremists who like/love EBRs learned him a thing or too huh?

Clyde

You have absolutely ZERO capacity for critical thought.

Or you maybe you just like the attention acting like a fool brings.

Tasteful extremism?  I think that's an oxymoron....  

So, we gonna see you there at the OC dinner or what?

Clyde

"Zumbosim"? Really, Clyde? So you're just making up words now to support your point of view? Man, you really got a hard-on for Zumbo. I'd be afraid of you if I were him.

So, we gonna see you there at the OC dinner or what?

Clyde

Negative, but not because of you. My mom is having a birthday party for herself, me and my fiance. All June babies. Maybe I will make the next one.

As I've stated, I'm not a huge fan of myself OC'ing, as I feel I'm more of a target that way, however, I don't think with 30+ people OC'ing that's really an issue at those dinners, lol.

I think Clyde finally gets it.   Clyde, wouldn't it have been a lot easier to have just said..... "You know, I really didn't think that out too well when I wore that AR pistol rig.   You guys are right.    Next time, I'll be wearing a handgun."    You'd have a lot more support here.   Being stubborn at the wrong time, for the wrong reason, doesn't help does it?

I could care less WTF you say, I'll do what I want and I'll certainly do it again.    Fact is, that fuckin' AR pistol is heavy and I ain't totin' it around again like that for that long, it was miserable.      I'm going with a G21 with an extended ported barrel this time.    

Don't like it, I'm sure you'll get over it.

Clyde

I think I gave Clyde more credit than he deserves.    Clyde DOESN'T get it.  Oh well.   And I guess I should have known that when it has been shown that Clyde said he wanted to scare the sheeple.   I thought maybe even with that, he realized now that was not a good way to support gun rights.   But whatever, you go for it, Clyde.

Damn, Clyde! People keep trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't that stubborn and can see from another point of you, but it just keeps passing you by.

All you're doing is perpetuating the anti sentiment that guns are bad, keep them undercover, image is everything, the same PC line the libs give.      I served 11 fuckin' years of my life defending my freedoms and yours, and I'll express my rights any goddamn way I choose within the law.       I really couldn't give a fuck what you think, it's irrelevant to my mindset.         The sooner you realize that I'm free to express my rights the way I see fit, the sooner I'll quit debating you.     You guys are evangelical in your beliefs that your way is the only way to win hearts and minds, but I can tell you from experience, it isn't.

Clyde

You think that your way is the right way, and it isn't going to be 100% of the time.   No one way is the right way.

You got some people involved by doing things this way, great, the majority aren't going to be appealed to in that way.



You keep posting about your rights and you'll do what you want, when in reality you want to bully people.  You want to scare those who don't get it, and intimidate those who disagree.  Go ahead, but you are acting like nothing more than a gangbanger on the street corner who can do it cause it is legal for him to stand there.

You won't get many by behaving this way, and I don't want to be associated with someone who has your attitude of himself.



Take that for what it means to you, I doubt it will mean anything though.  



 

Well ok, if you're gonna go for it, why not wear full camos, facepaint, hang 5 or 6 fake grenades from your BDU shirt, flamethrower on your back.   By God, that'll show 'em and it's your right to express yourself any way you want to!   (don't explode, Clyde, just a little humor)

Seriously, what's wrong with expressing your gun rights in a "professional" way that might enlist some positive support from the people who haven't made up their mind about guns?
If carrying a rig like you did might alienate people to the cause, why insist on doing it?    It's not like you're caving in to the anti-gunners to just put on a more professional look as with your Glock?   You don't seem to understand (or admit that you do) that being radical about it is a bad way to do it.

Yea, what's reasonable and professional to you is different than it is to me.     Thing is, this is the same argument antis use with their "reasonable regulations" argument.       Right now, the NRA is pushing a CCW only amendment in our legislature, which makes absolutely no sense at all, and it's creating a polarization of gun owner/carriers.    It's also creating a dual class of those who choose not "purchase their rights" .

I get you guys, I understand what you're saying, but, I've been over the top for years, and I don't plan to change.      I've been told I'm an 8 on the enneagram scale, and when I read it, sure enough it fits.

http://www.enneagram.net/type8.html

Clyde