Halp! My MP5 clone is broken (roller retainer) - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Halp! My MP5 clone is broken (roller retainer)

Posted: 1/9/2019 8:11:01 PM EDT

I have an AA89 (Atlantic Firearms) MP5 clone. I was just cleaning it and found that the roller retainer plate is broken. The thing is, this plate is different from anything I've been able to find as the hole for the pin isn't really a hole at all...it's offset so it's just a notch. What I've gathered is that maybe I need to get the wavy spring version instead of the plate. Every description I find says it's only for MP5F action 3 bolt heads.

Is this what I need? link

Here is a pic of my broken plate:

Attached File

Posted: 1/9/2019 8:25:03 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Is this what I need? link

View Quote

THESE DO NOT WORK IN STANDARD HK G3/33/MP5 Heads that use the steel retainer plate.

Edit: Common issue

https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK-ROLLER-RETAINER-PLATE-SURPLUS-126p1912.htm

Posted: 1/9/2019 8:28:35 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
THESE DO NOT WORK IN STANDARD HK G3/33/MP5 Heads that use the steel retainer plate.

Edit: Common issue

https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK-ROLLER-RETAINER-PLATE-SURPLUS-126p1912.htm

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Is this what I need? link

THESE DO NOT WORK IN STANDARD HK G3/33/MP5 Heads that use the steel retainer plate.

Edit: Common issue

https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK-ROLLER-RETAINER-PLATE-SURPLUS-126p1912.htm

Yes, I saw that. But I can't find a retainer plate like the one I have anywhere. All the steel retainer plates I can find are made for the pin to be centered over the channel the plate goes in. The pin on mine is offset.

Posted: 1/9/2019 8:32:04 PM EDT

[#3]

IDK why your's was offset but mine wasn't.

Posted: 1/9/2019 8:36:31 PM EDT

[#4]

Check this out, here's my bolt head. Pin is still in it and you can see the offset. I hope this isn't some oddball crap that I can't get parts for.

Attached File

Posted: 1/9/2019 8:40:18 PM EDT

[#5]

Go on the Atlantic Arms Industry forum page. They seem very responsive.

Posted: 1/9/2019 8:44:20 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
Go on the Atlantic Arms Industry forum page. They seem very responsive.

View Quote

Good idea...I shall do that.

Posted: 1/9/2019 8:54:22 PM EDT

[#7]

Looks like Atlantic changed them (in 2016 according to the text here): https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/MP5-F-Style-Roller-Retainer-Plate-3rd-Gen-p69.htm

If that isn't compatible, I'm sure they can advise you. In the meantime, you can safely omit the retainer, provided you don't lose your rollers during disassembly.

Posted: 1/9/2019 11:42:00 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
In the meantime, you can safely omit the retainer, provided you don't lose your rollers during disassembly.

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This is true and commonly done as well.

Posted: 1/10/2019 1:12:36 AM EDT

[#9]

How about this?

https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/1st-Gen-Roller-Retainer-Plate-To-Spring-Upgrade-90p2119.htm

Posted: 1/10/2019 10:20:21 AM EDT

[#10]

Hmm

Maybe I need to bust open my AA98K bolt to see whats in it

I just figured it was the standard old style plate

Posted: 1/10/2019 12:41:50 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
Hmm

Maybe I need to bust open my AA98K bolt to see whats in it

I just figured it was the standard old style plate

View Quote

That would be interesting. Thanks in advance if you do.

Posted: 1/10/2019 4:48:45 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
How about this?

https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/1st-Gen-Roller-Retainer-Plate-To-Spring-Upgrade-90p2119.htm

View Quote

I was going to suggest that.

I have those now in all my guns, no more plates

Posted: 1/10/2019 6:42:01 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
I was going to suggest that.

I have those now in all my guns, no more plates

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Quoted:

Quoted:
How about this?

https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/1st-Gen-Roller-Retainer-Plate-To-Spring-Upgrade-90p2119.htm

I was going to suggest that.

I have those now in all my guns, no more plates

That's made to replace the plate that has the pin centered. Will it work right on mine?

Posted: 1/12/2019 8:59:40 AM EDT

[#14]

Soooo...can anybody tell me which part I need? I see a lot of suggestions but nothing that tells me which ones fit my bolt head.

ETA: As far as I can tell, there are two things that differ: the width of the slot in the bolt head and the location of the pin. What everyone is suggesting seems to be designed for the centered pin and not the offset pin.

Posted: 1/12/2019 12:38:44 PM EDT

[#15]

The one I linked to (for F bolt) is designed for an offset pin, but I can't tell you if it'll fit your bolt.

I suggest you contact Atlantic.

Posted: 1/12/2019 12:52:07 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
The one I linked to (for F bolt) is designed for an offset pin, but I can't tell you if it'll fit your bolt.

I suggest you contact Atlantic.

View Quote

I've been trying to contact them. Finally got their attention in their industry forum, but no answer yet.

Yeah, the one for the F bolt is too narrow. I'm pretty sure it will just fall right out of my bolt head.

Posted: 1/12/2019 1:23:50 PM EDT

[#17]

They may have used their own design then.
If they were smart, they'd have gone with the wire style.

Posted: 1/12/2019 1:42:51 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
That's made to replace the plate that has the pin centered. Will it work right on mine?

View Quote

it doesn't have a centre hole, it has a "notch" with the spring, IE it will fit your bolt.

The only question is if it will move laterally enough to allow the rollers to pop out, and I bet it won't.

I would get that and try it

Posted: 1/12/2019 1:43:49 PM EDT

[#19]

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Quoted:

Yeah, the one for the F bolt is too narrow. I'm pretty sure it will just fall right out of my bolt head.

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the one I replied to is wider and will fit in your gen 1 slot

Posted: 1/12/2019 3:20:10 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

it doesn't have a centre hole, it has a "notch" with the spring, IE it will fit your bolt.

The only question is if it will move laterally enough to allow the rollers to pop out, and I bet it won't.

I would get that and try it

View Quote

Thanks for the reply. I know the pin will go in, but I was thinking it will have too much slop to retain the rollers properly. I ran across someone that tried this combo and he said it wouldn't work, but without trying it who knows. Waiting to hear from Atlantic on Monday now. I had no idea that a simple part like this would turn out to be this hard to source.

Posted: 1/12/2019 4:17:19 PM EDT

[#21]

Edit: Whoops wrong thread...

Posted: 1/13/2019 12:34:23 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
, but I was thinking it will have too much slop to retain the rollers properly. .

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If it does you could drill it out for a bigger pin,prob need a mill for a larger/offset hole

That's what I would do and run the wire retainer

Posted: 1/14/2019 12:07:33 AM EDT

[#23]

If you cannot get a direct replacement for your gun’s unusual roller retainer, I would just run it without a retainer while I looked for a German or RCM MP5 bolt, or get something better- an M.A.D. MP5 bolt.

What I did on my Z-5RS is replace the factory bolt with a M.A.D. MP5 bolt. This got me 1) a far (FAR!) more precisely made bolt than what came out of Turkey, 2) a bolt which uses the more durable “wire” roller retainer, rather than the MKE bolt’s old-style “plate” roller retainer, and, most importantly 3) a VASTLY improved extractor design which won’t crap out when I want/need my gun to work.

I realize that $300 is a lot of money for a bolt, but in this case it really is worth it. I cannot say enough good things about the M.A.D. MP5 bolt. The quality of manufacturing and excellence of design are unparalleled. Not to mention that the M.A.D. bolts remedy the biggest engineering shortcoming of the MP5 design; the awful, weak and strange design of the extractor spring. Get yourself one before M.A.D. has to stop making them, because too many people won’t pay for quality items.

Posted: 1/14/2019 10:23:03 AM EDT

[#24]

I forgot to check mine

Ill see if I can do that tonight.

However I dont have any other retainers except the original style on hand.

Posted: 1/20/2019 11:18:56 AM EDT

[#25]

Mine also appears to have a off centered retainer

Posted: 1/20/2019 9:44:26 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Mine also appears to have a off centered retainer

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Thanks for taking a look.

So I don't have a solution for sure yet, but Atlantic is trying to get me a plate that fits. I've asked if I can buy a few of them, but they don't even know how many they'll be able to get.

Posted: 1/21/2019 10:07:33 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:

Thanks for taking a look.

So I don't have a solution for sure yet, but Atlantic is trying to get me a plate that fits. I've asked if I can buy a few of them, but they don't even know how many they'll be able to get.

View Quote

Yeah that's pretty lame they made that part non standard

Posted: 1/21/2019 10:17:10 AM EDT

[#28]

If it's the same dimension (minus the notch) of normal plates, couldn't you just file/dremel a notch out of a replacement plate?

Posted: 1/21/2019 10:38:26 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
If it's the same dimension (minus the notch) of normal plates, couldn't you just file/dremel a notch out of a replacement plate?

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That would make them awfully thin

Posted: 1/21/2019 12:01:54 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

That would make them awfully thin

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Not any thinner than the one that came on his gun IF they share the same dimensions.

Posted: 1/21/2019 12:06:21 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

Not any thinner than the one that came on his gun IF they share the same dimensions.

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That's incorrect.

His bolt, like mine, seems to have the normal cut for the old style plates. However the hole for the retaining pin is moved aft of the bolt just a tiny bit.

As you can tell above in his pic the plate did not have a center hole and just one to the edge. If you modified a regular one there would indeed be less material.

Perhaps a guy could weld the hole closed without distorting the plate, but then youre getting into a ton of work for what should be a cheap wear part. Regardless its a problem with no easy solution it seems beyond modifying a retaining plate, bolt or bolt replacement

Posted: 1/21/2019 12:56:17 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

That's incorrect.

His bolt, like mine, seems to have the normal cut for the old style plates. However the hole for the retaining pin is moved aft of the bolt just a tiny bit.

As you can tell above in his pic the plate did not have a center hole and just one to the edge. If you modified a regular one there would indeed be less material.

Perhaps a guy could weld the hole closed without distorting the plate, but then youre getting into a ton of work for what should be a cheap wear part. Regardless its a problem with no easy solution it seems beyond modifying a retaining plate, bolt or bolt replacement

View Quote

If it was my gun I'd just buy a bunch of milsurp retainer plates and file them down. If they break quickly at the roll pin hole then I would start welding it closed. The old plate already cracked in half, if anything the roll pin hole would be a stress relief cut.

Posted: 3/6/2019 1:04:28 AM EDT

[#33]

What was the end result on this?

Posted: 3/6/2019 7:47:16 AM EDT

[#34]

Thankfully, Atlantic was able to find someone that had a couple of these and so I have a replacement. Still need to figure out something for the future since they will break with use.

Posted: 3/6/2019 11:13:21 AM EDT

[#35]

If anyone wants to see pictures of the various German bolt head compared to the Special Weapons, I posted pictures here a few years ago, see post #9: https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-clone-talk/233730-mke-zenith-owners-come-s-question-time.html

I have a Gen1 wire plate from HKparts that I'm going to shoot out of my SW bolt head as soon as I have the time. The wire will fit, but there's some extra movement with the rollers give the retaining pin hole is offset. I had the impression from years ago this wouldn't work and never actually tried it firing it, but this thread has peaked my curiosity.

Posted: 3/6/2019 1:58:39 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
The wire will fit, but there's some extra movement with the rollers give the retaining pin hole is offset. I had the impression from years ago this wouldn't work and never actually tried it firing it, but this thread has peaked my curiosity.

View Quote

as long as they don't fall out they should work

I would just replace the pin with a larger one an take up the room and use the wire retainer

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Halp! My MP5 clone is broken (roller retainer)

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