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Posted: 8/26/2018 12:28:14 AM EDT
[#1]
I believe they are designed to maximize internal volume of the suppressor and minimize poi shift depending on clip style. Plus there shirtless so you can maximize spacing options. I'm sure others will have a more detailed description.
I have used them and am very happy with the outcome. Monocore designs are kind of out dated aren't they? |
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Posted: 8/26/2018 2:21:40 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe they are designed to maximize internal volume of the suppressor and minimize poi shift depending on clip style. Plus there shirtless so you can maximize spacing options. I'm sure others will have a more detailed description. I have used them and am very happy with the outcome. Monocore designs are kind of out dated aren't they? I thought monos were good for subs? 
Thanks for the reply. |
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Posted: 8/26/2018 11:20:57 AM EDT
[#3]
Cones (mixed designs) or radials would be best and easiest to produce. K's are an option, but you don't usually get em right, the first time.
Welded or pieces is your choice. I'd use a 1.75" Aluminum tube. Pressures will be lower so saving weight, on a 12" can, would be nice. Monos can be good, but IME they take longer to refine than straight cones. A luxury the Form 1 builder doesn't have. If you were to scale drawings of the Leonidas, you might come out with a decent build. |
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Posted: 8/26/2018 12:07:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I edited my question, don't want to start anything in this forum, some of the other regulars might start shit. I thought monos were good for subs?
Thanks for the reply. |
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Posted: 8/26/2018 2:07:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I edited my question, don't want to start anything in this forum, some of the other regulars might start shit. I thought monos were good for subs?
Thanks for the reply. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I believe they are designed to maximize internal volume of the suppressor and minimize poi shift depending on clip style. Plus there shirtless so you can maximize spacing options. I'm sure others will have a more detailed description. I have used them and am very happy with the outcome. Monocore designs are kind of out dated aren't they? I thought monos were good for subs?
Thanks for the reply. Asylum9 hit the exact highlights on the RSC. No welded is not the only option. You can. Have a user serviceable can that is strong and will do what you want. Monocore do have there place but not In a rifle can imho, or in larger caliber than a 22lr. But again just my opinion. |
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Posted: 8/26/2018 9:46:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was a legit question. I was kinda curious myself. I don't believe there the be all end all for every application out there. |
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Posted: 8/26/2018 9:48:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since I am not permitted to advertise, some belive just posting my email is advertising, some one was kind enough to post my Contact info in the vendor thread http://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Form-1-Suppressor-Parts-Suppliers-list-and-Form-1-Parts-Weights-List-/55-457778 Asylum9 hit the exact highlights on the RSC. No welded is not the only option. You can. Have a user serviceable can that is strong and will do what you want. Monocore do have there place but not In a rifle can imho, or in larger caliber than a 22lr. But again just my opinion. 
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Posted: 8/26/2018 10:19:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cones (mixed designs) or radials would be best and easiest to produce. K's are an option, but you don't usually get em right, the first time. Welded or pieces is your choice. I'd use a 1.75" Aluminum tube. Pressures will be lower so saving weight, on a 12" can, would be nice. Monos can be good, but IME they take longer to refine than straight cones. A luxury the Form 1 builder doesn't have. If you were to scale drawings of the Leonidas, you might come out with a decent build. |
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Posted: 8/27/2018 6:48:57 PM EDT
[#9]
did some paper napkin sketching.
Since this will be a direct thread can, thinking about a coaxial, similar to a gemtech style. All TI tubes and baffles with a SS 60 cone to divert the gas into the chamber. 50 bmg subs are .510. Thoughts on bore size, baffle number, and spacing? Now with crappy not to scale MS Paint! 
Blue- Ti tube 2.25 OD x 10 Long Purple- Ti tube 1.625 OD x 7.5 Long  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/28/2018 8:45:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
did some paper napkin sketching. Since this will be a direct thread can, thinking about a coaxial, similar to a gemtech style. All TI tubes and baffles with a SS 60 cone to divert the gas into the chamber. 50 bmg subs are .510. Thoughts on bore size, baffle number, and spacing? Now with crappy not to scale MS Paint!
Blue- Ti tube 2.25 OD x 10 Long Purple- Ti tube 1.625 OD x 7.5 Long https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/193427/coax_sketch-653060.JPG Perhaps you will.be successful, good luck. Just a suggestion on the 50 cal 1.750 x 11" with 8 rsc I do belive will.get you where you want to go. I would suggest tI but a .2024 .080 wall will work also.on a slow fire rate. |
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Posted: 8/29/2018 12:22:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@rustyand looking for input on a 10" 50 cal. can, for use with 458 supers and subs, and 50 subs only. Best baffle type? Welded the only option? Thanks There's a big difference in trying to quiet down a cartridge burning a 30-40 gr. charge vs a 70-80 gr., not just in design strength, but in blast chamber size, baffle spacing and baffle type. That said, I don't think you need a 2-1/4" x 10" can to get it done even if you were using the big Lott round. .50 BMG supers, yeah, and then some, but 240+ gr powder charges are a whole 'nother ball game from even the biggest commercial magnums like .460 Weatherby. |
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Posted: 8/29/2018 8:31:32 AM EDT
[#12]
Kudos for design, but, I agree, you're overdoing it. The 2 tubes would be pushing 1lb and that's with only .05 Thk walls; .07 walls would be well over 1lb.
1.75 x 11" Aluminum Tube w/ 6-8 (Ti) baffles and an average spacing of around 1" should do nicely. Progressively spacing your baffle layout can also help. The Bowers Vers 50 is 11.25" and 20oz (Aluminum and SS) |
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Posted: 8/29/2018 9:19:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been down this path with many different calibers and Tube sizes. Different hole locations to fill the coaxial chamber, different length tubes in and out, even adjustable tube.lengths. every time just as I thought I was getting closer it never paid off compared to a std otb can or even an integrated can. Perhaps you will.be successful, good luck. Just a suggestion on the 50 cal 1.750 x 11" with 8 rsc I do belive will.get you where you want to go. I would suggest tI but a .2024 .080 wall will work also.on a slow fire rate. I wonder why the commercial coax cans work so well? Lots and lots of R and D time to tune? |
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Posted: 8/29/2018 9:26:27 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .458 what? SOCOM? Win Mag? Lott? There's a big difference in trying to quiet down a cartridge burning a 30-40 gr. charge vs a 70-80 gr., not just in design strength, but in blast chamber size, baffle spacing and baffle type. That said, I don't think you need a 2-1/4" x 10" can to get it done even if you were using the big Lott round. .50 BMG supers, yeah, and then some, but 240+ gr powder charges are a whole 'nother ball game from even the biggest commercial magnums like .460 Weatherby. Main host would be a 458 tromix 8" SBR AR, subs and supers. Then some bmg sub variant like a whisper at some point, but I need to get some cans complete before i build that rifle. I was hoping the coax design would help with the blast from the supers, and give a nice low tone on the subs. But I am trying to make a compromise can, and it is far from optimal it appears. What are your thoughts on an ideal can for this? |
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Posted: 8/29/2018 9:35:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Main host would be a 458 tromix 8" SBR AR, subs and supers. Then some bmg sub variant like a whisper at some point, but I need to get some cans complete before i build that rifle. I was hoping the coax design would help with the blast from the supers, and give a nice low tone on the subs. But I am trying to make a compromise can, and it is far from optimal it appears. Do you have a lathe & mill, or are we buying commercial parts to build this? Coaxial chambers have their place, but in general, you're better off using the available volume of your tube between the baffles. |
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Posted: 8/29/2018 9:36:28 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kudos for design, but, I agree, you're overdoing it. The 2 tubes would be pushing 1lb and that's with only .05 Thk walls; .07 walls would be well over 1lb. 1.75 x 11" Aluminum Tube w/ 6-8 (Ti) baffles and an average spacing of around 1" should do nicely. Progressively spacing your baffle layout can also help. The Bowers Vers 50 is 11.25" and 20oz (Aluminum and SS) 
Thanks for weighing in.
I have 4 cans to finish, and this 50 caliber can is the only one that does not have an easily copied, proven design I can mimic. Never thought of aluminum. What should i do with this 2.25 TI tube I have? It is .05 and 12 inches.... maybe submit a form 1 12 gauge can?  I have wanted one of those for awhile but don't know if I want an integral complete with brass eyelets or a thread on.
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Posted: 8/29/2018 9:45:31 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OK, so we basically want to optimize for the .458 SOCOM, but make the hole big enough for .510" projectiles. Yes Do you have a lathe & mill, or are we buying commercial parts to build this? Yes to both, but I still don't mind paying for commercial parts if it saves me time and they are proven parts/outcome. Especially since i only get the one shot to make it properly. Coaxial chambers have their place, but in general, you're better off using the available volume of your tube between the baffles. What is the place of coax chambers? I can read silencer talk for hours and not get a definitive answer it seems. Thanks. |
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Posted: 8/29/2018 10:27:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What should i do with this 2.25 TI tube I have?
I always wonder what a 4"x2.25" can on my PS90 would sound like. And think of other applications where short/fat cans might be nice if they don't obstruct the sights. I'd be interested in a direct thread F1 can for my Beowulf using most of that tube. But I've also thought about a shotgun can similar to the XCaliber SS1C. |
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Posted: 8/29/2018 1:35:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kudos for design, but, I agree, you're overdoing it. The 2 tubes would be pushing 1lb and that's with only .05 Thk walls; .07 walls would be well over 1lb. 1.75 x 11" Aluminum Tube w/ 6-8 (Ti) baffles and an average spacing of around 1" should do nicely. Progressively spacing your baffle layout can also help. The Bowers Vers 50 is 11.25" and 20oz (Aluminum and SS) |
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Posted: 8/29/2018 1:40:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for weighing in. I appreciate your knowledge and recommendation. I wonder why the commercial coax cans work so well? Lots and lots of R and D time to tune? |
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Posted: 8/29/2018 9:41:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Make a REALLY quiet rimfire can? It is .05 and 12 inches.
I always wonder what a 4"x2.25" can on my PS90 would sound like. And think of other applications where short/fat cans might be nice if they don't obstruct the sights. I'd be interested in a direct thread F1 can for my Beowulf using most of that tube. But I've also thought about a shotgun can similar to the XCaliber SS1C.
Thanks man
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Posted: 8/29/2018 9:45:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OK, so we basically want to optimize for the .458 SOCOM, but make the hole big enough for .510" projectiles. Do you have a lathe & mill, or are we buying commercial parts to build this? Coaxial chambers have their place, but in general, you're better off using the available volume of your tube between the baffles. Thanks for the email man! I'm still digesting all of that information, I appreciate you sending it, and I promise not to divulge any trade secrets
It's pretty clear what I need to do now in order to have a good can.
Thanks again! |
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Posted: 8/30/2018 8:21:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I swear to God if I had not heard about that 12 gauge can... it is very different then the salvo.... you are the worst enabler ever.... off to whip up another form 1
Thanks man Even worse is I have a buddy local to me that has one. I've been tempted several times to eyeball the internals and make something similar. Maybe even one baffle shorter. The only real reason I haven't is I don't own a shotgun with a threaded barrel.
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Posted: 8/30/2018 5:11:31 PM EDT
[#24]
That 12 gauge SS1C is a big girl; 2.5 OD by 14 1/4 inches...
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Posted: 8/30/2018 6:10:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That 12 gauge SS1C is a big girl; 2.5 OD by 14 1/4 inches... |
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Posted: 8/31/2018 12:52:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And yet, it's 6.5oz lighter than the Salvo. I kinda regret my 1st SBS as an A5, since it won't play well with a can. But I do love the A5. So I will need to Form 1 another shotgun along with the can. This is a very expensive hobby
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Posted: 8/31/2018 5:32:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does your friends sound? (If you had the chance to hear it) I kinda regret my 1st SBS as an A5, since it won't play well with a can. But I do love the A5. So I will need to Form 1 another shotgun along with the can. This is a very expensive hobby |
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Posted: 10/21/2018 2:29:05 AM EDT
[#28]
Definitely want to see where this goes. Most of this stuff is all over my head but I like it anyway. I thought about trying a form 1 50 can for my first but eventually saw a Vers 50 for a decent deal and snagged it. I have a SBR Encore in 500 as well as a guide gun in need of being threaded.
Haven’t shot it yet but it sounds like your purpose is similar. It’d be cool if a 50 big can was easy and cheap as well but these seem like a good in between. Can’t wait to eventually try some big subsonic 500’s. |
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Posted: 12/31/2018 3:11:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Do any of the current suppliers even offer tube diameter as large as 2"?
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Posted: 2/15/2019 1:55:02 PM EDT
[#30]
I saw over on Form1Suppressors.net, someone just built a .458 SOCOM Can.
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Posted: 2/18/2019 8:26:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Monocore do have there place but not In a rifle can imho, or in larger caliber than a 22lr. But again just my opinion. However I will admit that I use clipped, stepped cones for large volume, low pressure subsonics. The mono core baffle seems to require some pressure and flow to work. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 3:10:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do any of the current suppliers even offer tube diameter as large as 2"? |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 3:11:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
I saw over on Form1Suppressors.net, someone just built a .458 SOCOM Can. Quoted:
I have a monocore design that is AWSOME in rifle cans. It produces ridiculously good sound reduction in a decent sized package. It has been good from 22 rimfire all the way up to 338 LM, with the exception of 308 Win for some reason. However I will admit that I use clipped, stepped cones for large volume, low pressure subsonics. The mono core baffle seems to require some pressure and flow to work. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 4:11:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Care to share pics? |
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Posted: 3/9/2019 7:58:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do any of the current suppliers even offer tube diameter as large as 2"? 2"x12" aluminum kit. |
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