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Posted: 4/4/2019 5:13:18 PM EDT
[#1]
Snip
Australian military supplier drops US gun sale By RORY CALLINAN MARCH 29, 2019 The arms company making the Australian military’s standard issue assault rifle has dropped plans to sell a semiautomatic version to civilians in the United States. French company Thales, through its New South Wales-based Lithgow Arms plant had been advertising semiautomatic version of the military issue F-90 Steyr rifle for sale in the United States civilian market. The assault style rifle called the Atrax was almost identical to the F-90 Lithgow arms’ standard issue firearm it makes for the Australian Defence Forces. The main difference was that the Atrax was configured to fire semiautomatic not automatic. US gun shop websites have been advertising the Atrax as due to be released in the US civilian market soon and are promoting the rifle as having had a range of 400m, being sold with a high capacity magazine and was able to be broken down to fit in a backpack. But today a Thales spokesman said the company had dropped plans to sell any of the rifles to civilian markets on ethical grounds. He declined to say when the decision was made. The spokesman said while the proposal to sell the Atrax had been made two years ago, no rifles had been sold. “No F-90 variants have been sold to non-government/civilian users either directly or through distributors,’’ he said. “Lithgow Arms is Australia’s sovereign industrial capability in small arms design and development and will only sell semiautomatic and automatic rifles to military and law enforcement agencies,’’ it said. “Our immediate focus is to deliver all F90/EF88 rifles to the ADF under Land 125. Advertisements for the Atrax are still visible on some US based Firearms distributors including major gun supplier Brownells which described the weapon as “the pinnacle of weapons design and performance” and quoted a price of $1999.99. Snip |
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Posted: 4/4/2019 5:16:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Dumb move on their part
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Posted: 4/4/2019 5:21:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Super disappointed by this. Maybe Styer can take advantage of the lack of competition.....
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Posted: 4/4/2019 5:39:28 PM EDT
[#4]
That's to bad. Thales brought a post sample to the Bullpup Shoot a couple years ago. I really liked it.
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Posted: 4/4/2019 5:56:26 PM EDT
[#5]
That's disappointing.
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Posted: 4/4/2019 6:00:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's disappointing. |
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Posted: 4/4/2019 6:54:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Their company, their choice.
Capitalism will fix this one way or another. |
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Posted: 4/4/2019 7:49:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Their company their choice and they should not be allowed to sell guns to anyone here if they won't sell to civilians. If I had my way an EO would already be written
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Posted: 4/4/2019 8:34:07 PM EDT
[#9]
I think their 922r plans fell through so it wasn’t happening anyways and this is for pr brownie points if true.
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Posted: 4/4/2019 8:43:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think their 922r plans fell through so it wasn’t happening anyways and this is for pr brownie points if true. |
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Posted: 4/4/2019 9:42:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Yeah this is them taking the easy way out.
They couldn’t line up US manufacturing for yeeears. |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 2:22:49 AM EDT
[#12]
Don’t worry the gun is junk and has issues
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Posted: 4/5/2019 7:41:08 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don’t worry the gun is junk and has issues |
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Posted: 4/5/2019 1:27:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Well, it sucks for the people who really wanted this, but it's for the best if our money doesn't go to these countries.
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Posted: 4/5/2019 3:45:59 PM EDT
[#15]
More money i’ll give to Steyr or B&T. Companies that actually care about us and bring us cool stuff.
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Posted: 4/6/2019 7:10:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Well that sucks.
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Posted: 4/6/2019 8:36:49 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their company, their choice. Capitalism will fix this one way or another. |
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Posted: 4/7/2019 12:15:01 PM EDT
[#18]
This is incredibly disappointing. I'd waited on the Atrax as my first bullpup since late 16 or 17 when it was first announced, now I'm glad I went ahead and snagged a Steyr this year. I guess I need to hit the gym more since the one pound lighter koala AUG is permanently off the table.
For the record, I love this thing so far. |
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Posted: 4/7/2019 2:50:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't worry the gun is junk and has issues |
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Posted: 4/7/2019 4:23:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Snip Australian military supplier drops US gun sale By RORY CALLINAN MARCH 29, 2019 The arms company making the Australian military's standard issue assault rifle has dropped plans to sell a semiautomatic version to civilians in the United States. French company Thales, through its New South Wales-based Lithgow Arms plant had been advertising semiautomatic version of the military issue F-90 Steyr rifle for sale in the United States civilian market. The assault style rifle called the Atrax was almost identical to the F-90 Lithgow arms' standard issue firearm it makes for the Australian Defence Forces. The main difference was that the Atrax was configured to fire semiautomatic not automatic. US gun shop websites have been advertising the Atrax as due to be released in the US civilian market soon and are promoting the rifle as having had a range of 400m, being sold with a high capacity magazine and was able to be broken down to fit in a backpack. But today a Thales spokesman said the company had dropped plans to sell any of the rifles to civilian markets on ethical grounds. He declined to say when the decision was made. The spokesman said while the proposal to sell the Atrax had been made two years ago, no rifles had been sold. "No F-90 variants have been sold to non-government/civilian users either directly or through distributors,'' he said. "Lithgow Arms is Australia's sovereign industrial capability in small arms design and development and will only sell semiautomatic and automatic rifles to military and law enforcement agencies,'' it said. "Our immediate focus is to deliver all F90/EF88 rifles to the ADF under Land 125. Advertisements for the Atrax are still visible on some US based Firearms distributors including major gun supplier Brownells which described the weapon as "the pinnacle of weapons design and performance" and quoted a price of $1999.99. Snip I saw a movie where only the police and .gov had guns - It was called "Schindler's List" 
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Posted: 4/8/2019 7:46:11 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what's wrong with it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't worry the gun is junk and has issues |
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Posted: 4/8/2019 10:47:48 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That kid ain't coming back. He dropped that snark bomb and then rolled out to pollute other threads. I haven't heard of any issues with the product. |
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Posted: 4/8/2019 10:53:36 AM EDT
[#23]
yeah, it would have happened already. they probably figure the next administration would ban it anyway. and in the next couple years they would probably sell about 1200 of them, maybe...
I always wondered why Americans bought so few exotic guns back in the day before 1989 like H&K, FNC, Daewoo, etc... but seeing how they overwhelming prefer ARs these days despite a smorgasbord of overseas guns, I no longer wonder. |
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Posted: 4/8/2019 10:54:28 AM EDT
[#24]
Good, now I won't have to buy one
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Posted: 4/8/2019 12:19:26 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Super disappointed by this. Maybe Styer can take advantage of the lack of competition..... |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 1:02:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Brownells just called me to say all pre-orders are canceled!
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Posted: 4/9/2019 6:47:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yeah, it would have happened already. they probably figure the next administration would ban it anyway. and in the next couple years they would probably sell about 1200 of them, maybe... I always wondered why Americans bought so few exotic guns back in the day before 1989 like H&K, FNC, Daewoo, etc... but seeing how they overwhelming prefer ARs these days despite a smorgasbord of overseas guns, I no longer wonder. In the end, the selection was pretty exotic, and the stuff was available, but it became a simple issue of cost, lack of the manufacturers' advertising and educating the public, and the mindset that "those guns" were the purview of survivalists and wannabes. If you can find it, in 1982 Guns and Ammo released a publication called "Assault Rifles: The New Breed of Sporting Arm". I found a copy on eBay: Guns and Ammo's Assult Rifles: The New Breed of Sporting Arm" |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 6:51:00 PM EDT
[#28]
I bet NZ pressured them to cease civilian sales to continue the contract with NZ.
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Posted: 4/9/2019 7:25:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet NZ pressured them to cease civilian sales to continue the contract with NZ. |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 7:27:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Oops.....double tap
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Posted: 4/9/2019 8:38:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet NZ pressured them to cease civilian sales to continue the contract with NZ. |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 8:54:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think their 922r plans fell through so it wasn’t happening anyways and this is for pr brownie points if true. |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 10:40:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dollars to doughnuts it was the mosque shooting that caused this change. Just my opinion. I guess we will probably never know diffinitively either way. |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 11:30:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think their 922r plans fell through so it wasn't happening anyways and this is for pr brownie points if true. Already vaporware prior to the event in NZ. |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 11:33:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't NZ wholesale switch to LMT mrp and MWS based rifles, dropping the Austeyr? |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 12:38:49 AM EDT
[#36]
@manticore_arms
Any insight on this? |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 11:22:15 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what's wrong with it? |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 12:01:08 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dropping the QD barrel to shave weight on a perfectly balanced rifle is pretty stupid. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 12:08:19 PM EDT
[#39]
The amount of rail space to Barbie doll up a gun isn't what makes a firearm "modern"
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Posted: 4/10/2019 12:35:22 PM EDT
[#40]
It's just one variable. If you don't have enough rail space to mount the needed accessories, then it cannot compete with other modern options.
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Posted: 4/10/2019 1:04:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree. Adding those rails adds weight, and the AUG needs more rails (unless you only shoot in the daytime) and less weight (since it's heavier than an M4A1). They made it lighter than a non-railed AUG, yet gave it enough rail space to be a modern military weapon. Having a QD barrel is nice, but not necessary for anything except a LMG. One can easily remove the barrel assembly from the stock assembly and clean it that way. No big deal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dropping the QD barrel to shave weight on a perfectly balanced rifle is pretty stupid. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 1:32:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having lived through those days as a consumer with cash to spend, a lot of it has to do with price. Back in the 80s you could get a Colt's AR-15 for ~$450 or so and a Mini-14 for a bit less, it was hard to justify spending ~$800+ for the others. I bought an HK-91 for about $800 in 1987 and sold it shortly after when I realized that the accessories were stupid expensive. Magazines were ~$30-50 each, the freaking cleaning kit (which now sells for about $5 surplus) was $25 new. Then you have the fact that other than HK, none of the other brands really advertised and were more boutique guns than anything. We look at those prices today and shrug, but consider that in 1987, that $800 HK-91A2 would cost ~$1670 in current dollars, and a $30 magazine would be ~$63. In the end, the selection was pretty exotic, and the stuff was available, but it became a simple issue of cost, lack of the manufacturers' advertising and educating the public, and the mindset that "those guns" were the purview of survivalists and wannabes. If you can find it, in 1982 Guns and Ammo released a publication called "Assault Rifles: The New Breed of Sporting Arm". I found a copy on eBay: Guns and Ammo's Assult Rifles: The New Breed of Sporting Arm" BTW: the title of the 1982 publication puts the firearms magazine staff writers as the authors of the "assault rifle" label and not the later political opportunists as is always claimed. . . . 
I bought my Mini-14 at Gemco because I was too poor to afford a Colt. I'm going to see if I have the receipt, because I don't remember it as just a "bit less" than the Colt, I remember it as significantly less. We'll see. ETA: Found the receipt. Nov. 1983 $249.97. As I said, significantly less than Colt |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 1:36:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree. Adding those rails adds weight, and the AUG needs more rails (unless you only shoot in the daytime) and less weight (since it's heavier than an M4A1). They made it lighter than a non-railed AUG, yet gave it enough rail space to be a modern military weapon. Having a QD barrel is nice, but not necessary for anything except a LMG. One can easily remove the barrel assembly from the stock assembly and clean it that way. No big deal. For a military weapon, sure, you need more rails than a mirror on Mötley Crüe's tour bus. But as a civilian who doesn't need IR lasers and all of that shit, I'm fine with either the 2:00 rail for a white light or one of the bolt on rails. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 3:25:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@manticore_arms Any insight on this? Doesn't surprise me.... This is all from my personal perspective, some of my personal interactions with Lithgow USA, and a bit or two I have heard about the workings behind the scenes of what was going on. Take it as an opinion, not as fact. I think the project was pretty much already DOA and this was the last nail in the coffin. Josh Whi was our point of contact originally, and for two years in a row he brought the sample guns out to Bullpup Shoot. He is the guy who got the Daewoo DP51 brought back as the Lionheart pistol, and was very focused, dedicated, and enthusiastic to making this a reality. At some point in the last 18 months he went radio silent (no response to emails) some new guys supposedly were in charge, and that is when everything appear to go downhill. No communication, and last thing I heard was when I was at NASGW and talked to the "new" distributor who kind of chuckled and said "we'll see" when I asked when it was coming out. Lithgow USA was basically an office in the U.S. and more or less a shell company for in theory selling the guns here in the U.S. By shell I don't mean fake, but rather that they didn't have manufacturing capability, it was just the office set up to handle importing and distribution in the U.S., etc. This is very common with projects like this. At some point Dasan got involved (or was involved form the beginning, stories vary) and they went through a big corporate reorganization and that seems to have been the practical end of the project there. Early on we actually were talking with them about doing some 922r parts, but as the project drug on and communication got more sparse it became apparent to my eyes (i.e. my personal opinion) that the project was hopeful but was not going to work out. A shame as I really wanted to have one in our stable of bullpups. Maybe we will crank out a few fixed barrel receivers that can plug into an AUG stock someday, LOL.... Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 3:45:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can anyone who uses multiple barrels chime in on what the POI shift is when you switch them? Not trying to derail but since it came up. I was at a 100 yard indoor range zeroing a 16" gun. With the 18" barrel, it was still on target but way off the poi/poa of the 16". The 20" was off the paper, and the 24" hit the concrete wall of the shooting tube... I'd assume that EVERY barrel will behave differently, the AUG's awesome return to zero is solely predicated upon using the same barrel in the same receiver. I've never thought of the AUG as a gun where you swap from a 16" to a 20" barrel on the fly. To me, the QD barrels are great for concealibility, compactness, and cleaning. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 3:51:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe we will crank out a few fixed barrel receivers that can plug into an AUG stock someday, LOL.... |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 3:58:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's just one variable. If you don't have enough rail space to mount the needed accessories, then it cannot compete with other modern options. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 4:04:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what I don't get. The F90 has pretty exactly the same amount of rail space as an AUG M1 with a long rail |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 4:04:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what I don't get. The F90 has pretty exactly the same amount of rail space as an AUG M1 with a long rail |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 4:18:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But the F90 has more forward rails (for lights and lasers) and weighs less. These are the numbers I've pulled together (I can't find a weight for an M1 with optic) and I'm using 14" barrels to keep the comparison as apples to apples as possible AUG A1, 14" barrel w/optic...7.1 lbs F90/ATRAX, 14" barrel,no optic...6.9 lbs M4A1, 14.5" barrel, w/quad rail, no optic...7.2 lbs And the reason they have the forward rails is that they ditched the vfg in order to have a more integrated grenade launcher. If you want a vfg, you have to attach it to the new front rail (and it won't be as ergonomic as the original) On the AUG most of the weight is in the receiver and bolt carrier. I wonder how hard it would be for Steyr to skeletonize the receiver some to lose half a pound or so? |
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