Alright, PSA, that’s how you do a callout!

The bases of OPs bullets are disgusting. I wouldn’t sweat it if a handful of the case looked like that, just being FMJs, but if OP just pulled a handful out of the box, and that’s what he got…

Still thinking OP got a bad run, I don’t see how that could happen during shipping. Maybe PSA had a machine not running right and QC/QA failed to cull them. Not saying their management/PR is lying, they likely just have no clue the lot was bad.

I am terribly excited to see a report from OP after his trip to the factory. They should up the ante and have OP bring the rifle he tested the bullets in, to test them literally “hot off the press”.

ETA: that still doesn’t help OP out with the fact he has a case of scrap lead/copper in his garage that he paid good money for. The PR stunt is cool and I hope OP has a good time and gets to shoot some quality bullets, but I really think he deserves a case of bullets that are worth more than scrap value.

1. I’d trade OPs trip for a case of faulty (but still useable) projectiles in a heartbeat.

2. I’m guessing OP will have plenty of quality bullets upon his return.

Good job PSA! Amazing CS!

I'll be in your "neighborhood" on vacation in August.

I'll be visiting your store and I will bring $

Hey all,

Just a quick update. I messaged back and forth a couple of times with Josiah yesterday. I will be calling him next week to set up the trip. Due to some logistical issues on my end, it may be a couple/few weeks. No, not happy about that! lol

And as for the factory tour- you bet I'll take any and all photos that don't violate their policies for trade secrets, NDA, ITAR, LMNOP, etc. I could very easily be wrong, but there might be some limitations there. It's their offer, their tour, their rules. This is an incredible learning opportunity for me.

I will keep this thread updated as I have info. And yes, I'm currently planning to bring my rifle. Just for comfort and consistency sake. :)

@dryflash3 - thank you for setting the toggle. We're all curious to see how this ends. lol

FYI, the longer you wait the more you will see. There are machines rolling in every few weeks. If you wait about 6 weeks you should be able to see 55gr loaded rounds rolling off of the line and 77gr OTM rounds rolling off of the line in around 8 weeks (times subject to change based on equipment delays). In June we will have 125gr OTM and 220gr OTM 300BO being made. The primer plant is also beginning construction and the longer you wait the further along that will be. I think you will be intrigued by all of it.

Also, for those stating there is some sort of learning curve, this isn’t being done by us. It is being contracted by a major industrial group that sets up ammo factories. They set up several military factories in Europe and many of the factories in recent decades in the US. Each member of management was brought in from outside with decades of experience running large ammo factories and the employees are trained at other facilities, certified and then come back to us to begin employment.

After the tour you will understand the scope of what we are doing. We have spent over $100,000,000 on this project so far.

@Jman_JJE

IIRC you are intending to make 7.62x39 and 5.45, will those be boxer or berdan primed?

They will be boxer primed. The steel case lines are slated to start up in June 2023. Of course everything is subject to delay based on raw materials and supply chain issues. The steel case calibers will be 7.62x39, 5.45, 54r, 308, 300BO and 6.5 grendel. We will start with steel cased 7.62x39 first.

Oooof. That's a new wrinkle. Part of me wants to accelerate to have something for the group here and closure on our original question. I am sure the people setting this up for you would be interested in the unopened bags I have as well.

But the prospect of loaded rifle rounds hot off the press is intriguing for sure. That would be an interesting test. Joe Average comparing regular bulk ammo(I may have some American Eagle in the safe somewhere), hand loaded ammo and fresh PSA ammo. And Lord knows I love my 300BO.

How's the Wi-Fi in your parking lot? I'm 100% remote anyway. Does Domino's deliver there?

Jokes aside, logistically for me, the six week window is more convenient. I am intrigued by the primer plant as I know that is a HUGE deal but inquiring minds will want answers.

Thanks again.

eta: Please make Grendel the second steel cased. FWIW, my Grendel in one of your kits and it's fantastic.

As a long time lurker, and with a basic understanding on the type of cash needed for these investments.  That's damn impressive, and makes me sad I'm no longer assigned to Joint Base Charleston.  Back in '11 you guys were just a well-endowed store with a few stripped lowers.

My theory on the bad bullets... these were from machine setup and got accidentally packaged... just a theory.

I don't know if this was posted but I'm fairly sure the Varmint Nightmares are made by Nosler. The Dogtown Bullets from midway are also. RMR use to sell them also and just said they were Nosler.

They made you an awesome offer.

However, I really don't see your problem.  

FMJ's have irregular bases, count on it.  Expect that condition.  If some don't,... okay, that's great.    

HPBT have irregular tips, count on it.  Expect it.  

I am not defending PSA or the bullet maker or anyone.

IMO, you have an error in your expectations.  I think you also picked an irrelevant method for inspection/photographing the bullets.

FMJ's are not benchrest bullets, don't use the usual <1 MOA criteria to judge them.

As an exercise, lay the bullets down on their sides on a flat surface.  I bet the tips are all very much in alignment, more akin to the way they would align with your rifle bore.

Still, you got a nice offer from it.  I'd go right away, even if it cost me a day's pay.  It is an awesome offer,... a life experience.

That is the BEST THING I've read in a LONG time.

You're comparing apples to oranges. It would be a more fair comparison if you used FMJ from another bulk manufacturer of FMJ bullets. You have several to choose from. The bullets you chose are made in different ways and made for 2 different things  The tail may not have any relevance to how they shoot. How long have you been reloading?

This brings up a valid question: "Why not test against another FMJ?" Quite simply, because "How does this bullet compare to other FMJs on the market?" is not a question I cared about. It is certainly a valid question, it's just not important to me. I don't care much for FMJ. I DO care a lot about companies that try to fill a need or expand what we have available to us. Were these just another FMJ from Hornady, Nosler, Speer, etc. I wouldn't have bothered.

So for me, the question I started with was:
"Will this bullet fill the role for which I need it? Thereby giving me an excuse to send a little bit(more) of my hobby budget to support PSA's efforts getting into the ammo game?"
That's the value statement for me. Looking for a reason to support a new player. My hobby budget won't impact their bottom line, but it's the right thing to do if they are going to step up.

So, while I agree with you, they are different, the role I am asking them to play FOR ME is the same- give me roughly about 1.5" at 100 yards. If the RMR 69g were $.10, I'd be switching to them. Performance wise, they are on point- but they miss on price for this particular case. It's about my particular use case in this instance. The RMR 69g fill a different use case and I have some loaded.  

I likely went a bit far on the previous page answering Molon's "What are they good for?" question and drifted from the original value prop and scope statement naturally causing the "apples to oranges" line of thinking. Apologies.

If I go to PSA and we pull some random ones from the line and get about 2" at 100 yards, I will be pulling out the credit card and getting another 1,000 (or so, probably more to save shipping, lol) and saving the ones I currently have for other use cases.

Who knows, maybe I'll pick up some FMJs at some point and compare that as well, but as stated, that's a "curiosity" rather than a "use case" for me.

Palmetto,

please consider adding 308/7.62 to your production lines

 there is so little available on the market thats not bananas pricing

My PSA PA10 is due in today!!!!! and I need a ammo fort without having to sell a kidney

that wasn't my intention

but in retrospect your are correct

Never thought you did it on purpose, just thought you might like a link to the PSA forum.

I will be keeping a close eye on this epic thread so it has a good flow. dryflash3

Date of the trip will be May 17th and 18th.

Why so far out? Unfortunately, there wasn't much I could do with that. I'm in the middle of some commitments at work that have me locked down for the next four to five weeks, plus some personal issues that factor into this. So, while we all want to see this happen quickly, that's the best I can do.


I will say that @Jman_JJE 's post about "The longer you wait, the more you'll see." started to intrigue me as I know seeing primers made and rolling would be a major boon to this group, but ultimately, I want to keep this on its original purpose- the 55g FMJ projectiles. If there's any bonus stuff I get to see, I'll certainly report on that as well.


I spoke to Josiah / @PalmettoStateArmory today and we agreed those dates would work. He also said I should be able to see construction of the primer facility and at least give a report on that progress. FWIW, over in the Industry forum, I think it was stated there's no ETA on primer sales to the public yet.


I'm very much excited and know it will be worth the wait for all involved. In the meantime, I suppose I should learn how to take decent photos on my iPhone....

I’ve always been a fan of PSA. This thread is just another confirmation of why!

Hey guys, Chad Wylie, CEO of PSA here and wanted to take a second to say hello. This thread was shared with me and out of curiosity I wanted to check our current production of AAC projectiles. As Jamin stated, these projectiles do not look like current production. I went by and pulled about 200 off of the line and did some load development myself based off of my match loads I use in DMR / 3GN matches. The results were really good. I'm actually running the 55s and 9mms at USPSA NATs this weekend. To sum it up, I ran all 3 of my match guns at sub-MOA with the 55s. My 20" is 1/4 capable with 77s and the largest group I had with the 55's was about .850. We had a light crosswind rocking the target so I feel like I could have tightened up the group on something more stable. I'm happy with what I printed with all 3 despite the target situation. I'll be your guide when you come to visit and I can't wait to meet you and see if we can produce the same results from your rig.  

Below is the load data used:

AAC 55's
26 GRN of Shooters World Match Rifle
2960 AVG FPS
2.240 OAL

I didn't chrono but I am assuming sub 20 SD based off of the average group size. My match 77 is typically 12 to 14.

Hey Chad,

Thank you so much for doing this. This is right inline with what I was hoping to do when I get there. I wanted to work up some loads, and then at least divide in half. I would shoot five and the PSA employee of choice would shoot five with my gun just "to see".

Really looking forward to it. Gonna be a great education for guy like me.

I've not tried the Shooter's World Match Rifle. I'll probably bring my H-335 for consistency sake. Should be a fun time.

Stupid question time: I'm assuming the velocity posted is from previous workups?

ps- nice cerakote blue on the one rifle.

eta: Welcome and Good Luck.

Better than the Winchester components 55 grain 224 fmjbt projectiles of yore. Or the ones from the Philippines.

ETA: And none would invite you out the way PSA did.

So jealous. But I do have 4 pounds of match rifle...lol

Basically what I was thinking also.  Don’t see how packaging and shipping could cause the deformities posted by OP

As a local in SC to this company…I’ve had my share of issues with them and will be the first to say I’m far from fanboy but I have to hand it to them with this offer.

T-minus four three two one weeks.

Just wanted to let those that care trip is still on. Still excited. Considering picking up an actual camera(but will likely save the money because I am not a photography person).

ETA: Spoke to Josiah again this morning. He confirmed Chad will be there to assist. Poor guy must have lost a bet. I'm looking forward to having some new, fresh concrete info for the thread!

In stoked for you. There is an email ad from psa with the 55 aac fmjbt standing on their bases... one looks crooked

interested in this

Landshark.   Think about taking your gun to PSA for testing.

Maybe your gun just doesn't like these PSA bullets.  

The bases on the PSA bullets look much, much better than the Winchester I bought several years ago.
Maybe not as good as Hornady 55gr FMJBT.  But, I haven't done a specific side-by-side comparison.

Hey Chad!


We’ve met and shot together  several times…Clinton House and TRM/Lead Star sniper series

Good to see you here and I’ll see you again soon I’m sure at a match or two





If you need access to a rifle to test some ammo there, just holler! I’m pretty close by.  Of course PSA has in house rigs, but one of mine could be a control variable or something

Cool. If all goes as planned, I'll have lots of info and pics to share.
Absolutely will bring my rifle. I spoke with Josiah the other day re: logistics, ie- hotel, loose plans, etc. I'm opting to drive from Florida because:

1. Even though it's roughly an 8hr drive, by time you figure going to the airport, arranging an Uber at the other end, etc. you don't save much time by flying
2. Driving lets me bring what I want. I recognize that checking a firearm is standard practice, but the airlines aren't very reliable these days and I'd be sad if something happened to this rifle.

And @verm2 you may be right. We will know soon enough!

Stoked!

Arrived last night. Today will be a full day. I most likely will not update this thread during the day- just depends. However, at the very least I'll have an update this evening.

Looking forward to updates.

I bet it's like being Charlie in Wonkas (gene wilders not Johnny depps) chocolate factory.

Need the details man.

Sorry guys, it's been a bit of a whirlwind. By time I got back to the hotel last night it was after 11. I need to measure the targets and finish drafting the post, but as they said- what I had was not indicative of what comes off the line now. We're now looking at potentially sub MOA FMJ.

Please be patient as I'd like to do the update justice.

Update:
Original goal - See if the PSA 55g FMJ would shoot "good enough" to be a replacement or alternative to the Midsouth Shooter Varmint Nightmare 55g SP for regular "plinking" loads.  I did not expect it to be an exact match to the 55g SP and FMJ. This was not meant to be a "FMJ vs SP comparison". As I posted, that's a valid question, but not what I care about. What I cared about was :
That is really important to remember. What the use case FOR ME is:

The powder of choice was H-335 because it seemed to be the most available and most economical at the time.

Here's how we did it this time:

During the plant tour that was conducted by Jamin himself, I stuck my hand down into the container of finished bullets as they came out of the polisher and filled a bag. As to the photos and narration from the tour, that will be forthcoming. Due to ITAR regulations, I will need to get all photos approved. There are also some that have employee faces in the background and I will need to blur those out.

SPOILER ALERT: That plant is HUGE, IMMACULATELY CLEAN, all the equipment I saw was brand spanking new and the employees were genuinely friendly and happy. I make my living by knowing when people are buffalo-ing me. These were good people. Every individual. Not because "The boss is giving a tour". I can tell.


Attached File

These were some seriously shiny bullets.

We then took those and some cases that had just come off the manufacturing line (just cooled from annealing) and loaded up some random factory rounds. More on that at the end of the post).

The remaining bullets Chad and I took out to the range. Chad has a mobile reloading set up in his van, so we reloaded them there at the range and test fired.

We loaded 10 of each of the same charge weights as before with:

• 1x LC cases I brought with me that were from the same lot of brass as the others
• They were primed with the same CCI #41 primers using the same primer seater as previous
• The same bottle of H-335

Using my rifle, I shot a five shot group and then Chad or another PSA employee(who I do not have permission to use his name yet) shot five. We did not chrono these as the targets were set horizontally so that would have been a pain.

Sadly, I did not bring my caliper or think to measure when I had Chad's, so we'll have to make due with a ruler. While not exact, it certainly shows what these will do with H-335.

23.0g
Target 1 - 1.25"
Attached File


Target 2 - 1.18" (There's two holes at the bottom)
Attached File


23.5g
Target 1 - 1.18"
Attached File


Target 2 - 1.25"
Attached File


24.0g
Target 1 - 1.18"
Attached File


Target 2 - 2" - I pulled one badly. 1.375 without that.
Attached File


24.5g
Target 1 - 1.37
Attached File


Target 2 - 1.31"
Attached File


25.0g (This is where they were really opening up before. With both sets of 55g bullets.)
Target 1 - 1.25 BLOODY HECK! That's a three shot cluster under the edge of the ruler and a classic "Last shot, Landshark. Don't screw it up...don't screw it up...don't screw......" at the point of the ruler. Without that screwup, that was a .81.
Attached File


Target 2 - .56
Attached File


Here they are without the ruler:
Attached File


Conclusion:
These bullets will shoot. Tomorrow I am going to the PSA store and will buy a minimum of 1,000 more. Yes, I am sure they would exchange them, but I said previously "If we test them and they pass my use case, I'll buy more out of pocket." Fair is fair.

Including the screwups, the average across all groups was 1.25 with incredible consistency across all. A high of 2" - 1.59" without a called flyer and a low of .59". This is with mixed, LC brass.
Both the PSA shooter and I were printing under 1" with 25.0g.

When I get home, I'll measure them again (maybe) but the bottom line is these were pulled at random, by me, right out of the tub. So, what happened to the first batch? I am not sure. But we do know- it was a fluke. The bullets Chad pulled and shot in his gun earlier in the thread were weeks ago, so whatever caused it, is long gone. I'm going to be loading some more up when I get home with 25.0g just to see if I can get consistent 1MOA out of these. Which, for 55g FMJ is way outside of expectations.

Oh, and those factory loads we did with random cases and bullets?
This is with Chad's rifle:
Attached File


I had some issues with the target holder moving halfway through the group, so I need to redo mine when I get home. Notice how the two outside the cluster are torn. The target holder flopped forward so they went in at an angle. This is random, factory, bulk loaded 55g FMJ.
This is with my rifle:
Attached File


So- conclusion. These are first rate 55g FMJ bullets. They fit my use case. I'll be buying more of them. Also, PSA employees are first rate people.

Results match what I got from a new vs old lot of bullets.

NICE!

Thanks for the write up landshark!

These may become my new bulk load!

Thanks for the AAR!

@rattlecanar

Any update on the bullets you purchased?
Attached File

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