So as most here know, I'm new to reloading. When trying out presses, I went and loaded up about 300 rounds at someone else's house on their press and dies to test out the press. I brought the primers, powder and bullets, they were nice enough to hook me up with the brass. He looked up the load data on Hodgdon's website and we dialed everything in. I can't remember the COAL, but powder was Titegroup at 3.8 grains. Looking at Hodgdon's site today, these are what is available, unsure if any of these are what used or not...

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About a month ago, I went to a pistol match and had what I thought were 2 squibs with the ammo. Figured since I was new, I had missed a couple, sucks, but it happens.

Went to a 2 gun match yesterday and decided to check on my pistol (which I have been daily carrying the whole time) and when I went to eject the cartridge from the chamber, the bullet got stuck in the barrel and was pulled out and spilled powder. I tried a couple more, each got stuck in the gun, but not all of them pulled the bullet out. So I started measuring and they were seeming a bit on the longer side. I think I may have had 1 squib and 1 that just got stuck like these ones, I just didn't realize til now.

So I just grabbed 7 of those reloads randomly and 7 factory Fiocchi and measured them. I'm not sure how to do the math everyone does with chrono'ing, not even sure if I'm looking for the same thing with these calculations? But here they are:

Fiocchi
1.150
1.154
1.155₅
1.152
1.150
1.150₅
1.153₅

Reloads
1.157
1.155
1.157
1.157₅
1.157₅
1.154₅
1.181 (yowza!)

Now the Fiocchi are 115 grains and the reloads are 125 gr. The bullets are SNScasting bullets, 125gr coated bullets. I remember hearing, and him saying, that coated bullets are treated like lead, is that correct (or was it plated, fuck my memory sucks...)?

So when I was measuring them the other night and comparing to the manuals, they were way long, but then for lead 124gr listed in a 9mm manual for Hodgdon, it does show COAL at 1.169. So I figured they were long and that is why the bullets were getting stuck, but after finding the 1.155₅ Fiocchi and it working just fine (when a 1.155 reload wouldn't work), figured that is not the issue. Here is the page from the book.

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So I recently just got a 9mm case gauge (gage?) [yeah I can use the barrel, but that is one at a time, figured 7 would be a bit quicker] and so stuck them in there. The Fiocchi all fit no problem, the reloads, not so much...

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So is this a brass issue? Or still a length issue? or both? and what exactly do I do about it? I have probably about 200 rounds of these.

And as a bonus, before I measured and was trying the rounds, I chambered that 1.181 round and it didn't pull the bullet, but it shaved off the coating. Yikes!

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Sounds like your COAL is too long. Hard to tell but in that pic it looks like it is not crimped very well either. Try to push a bullet deeper into the case by hand by pushing it against the side of the table. If you can move it without about max force it’s not crimped enough. To find your max COAL, drop a bullet into the barrel, push down lightly to make sure it’s against the lands, then take some measurements and calculate How long you can seat. There’s a process if you can’t figure out how to do it, but I can’t recite it off the top of my head in a way that will make sense.

Ok ima not read all that and just say, a bullet from one manufacturer doesn't have the same profile as another.
Your bullets are likely bullet diameter sooner than the ones in the data.
So the full diameter of the bullet is sticking in the lead/throat area.
Also 9mm pistols have different lead/throat clearances.

A lot of times you mock up a dummy and see where the over all length of your bullet is in your pistol.
Then work up a load based off that.

Cz pistols are famous for thight lead/throats.
Fiocchi is in my opinion famous for short over all length ammo because they know it has to function in all pistols.

And the sns bullets I have are indeed full diameter sooner than most needing a shorter over all length.

Some bullets are blunter, some more pointed.
You look at the data and subtract for shorter seating.

Couple of things.  

The issue is, your loads are seat too long and the ogive is hitting the lead in the chamber.  

Bullet shape often dictates the seating depth.  You have to seat the bullets far enough to feed reliably and not get up against the lead.  Barrels are different so keep that in mind.  For example, what plunks in my Sig barrel may not plunk in my son's M&P.  We learned this at a match where he had one get stuck in the chamber.

Even if the load listed is for your exact components start low and work up but start out ensuring the length fits your gun.  If you don't have the exact components then it is on you to be safe.  

I load coated bullets and chose a TC shape to better replicate the shape of my carry ammo.  I follow data for lead bullets for my coated bullets, you can't push them as hard as you can with copper bullets.  

Because there are so many different projectiles out there for 9mm it is impossible for testing to be done for every bullet by every powder maker.  Just a 9mm book could be hundreds of page long and by the time they were done load developing for every combo their would be new ones out there.  

Long story short, you bullets aren't seated deep enough for your barrel.

3.8 is powerful weak for titegroup iirc. Especially for 115 gr

This is why I make a dummy round when using new bullets.  I'll test the dummy in all my handguns I plan on using the reloads in.  It should chamber and extract without issue.  The throat on my Gen 5 Glock 19 is noticeably shorter than my earlier generation Glocks.

I copied this from the product description of your case gauge.

Checking Case Length:
Auto pistol cartridges headspace on the case mouth and not the case rim as revolver cartridges do. To make certain your cases are not too long, do the following:

1. Resize and deprime the case.
2. Drop the case inside the holes in our case gauge.
3. If your cases are flush with the top of the gauge, the cases do not need trimming. However, if they do protrude, then trimming may be required.

Checking Proper Bullet Seating Depth:
1. Install the bullet into a correct length case and drop it in to our gauge.
2. If the case is flush with the top of the gauge, the seating depth is correct (for that shape, style, length and weight bullet).
3. If the case protrudes slightly, remove the cartridge and reseat the bullet just a fraction of an inch deeper into the case and try again. If the case is still protruding, seat the bullet deeper and stop when the case sits flush with the gauge.
4. With the cartridge still in the gauge, hold it in place with your finger and turn the gauge over. The tip of the bullet should not protrude beyond the bottom of the gauge. If it does, the bullet is not seated deep enough and should be set deeper.
5. If the case has been properly resized, the length is correct, and the bullet is seated to the proper depth, you should be able to turn the gauge over and have your cartridge fall out by gravity alone.



Also a Sheridan Engineering sloted case gauge will show you exactly where your reloads are hitting.
Cheap way to test.
Plunk test

This is what I do as well. It also allows you to set dies back to this bullet quickly in the future if you reload more than one type of bullet.

I also agree with the others that your OAL is too long for this bullet profile and you might need more crimp to remove the belling of the case mouth. Your powder charge might cycle your gun but does seem to be on the low side as well but that’s what work ups are for and not every load needs to be top velocity.

Pull a bullet from the brass you used and test the brass in the case gauge and/or your barrel and see if it checks out without a bullet loaded to help narrow down the issue.

So the case from the round that had the bullet get stuck, sits flush, possibly a little lower than flush in the gauge.

Ok, so i know that different weight bullets have different oal's, but can the same weight but slightly different profile bullets also have different oal's?

Also thanks for the steps to figure out to check a new round, got the gauge from midway, didnt look too much at the description or their site.

So what it boils down to i guess, if i find the size that fits my chamber, can i resize these already made rounds? Or do i have to pull them and start over?

Yes

I would figure out how deep that particular bullet profile needs to be seated, then reseat all rounds to that COAL.  I would then run them through a Lee factory crimp die.  Once the factory crimp die is set up, pull a bullet to make sure you aren't over doing it.

I agree with what everyone said here.  If your rounds are not fitting your plunk test block it it more that likely your brass is too long and needs trimming if your firearm  chambers off of the case mouth.

Odds are his issue is long seated bullets.

One or two that don’t plunk would be long brass.

All that don’t plunk. Ogive is hitting the lands.

This all day long, never had to trim pistol brass.

Here is a visual regarding ogive for you. Both same gr bullet, vastly different ogive and vastly different OAL.

I've switched to TC bullet profiles for this very reason.

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See how OAL can vary based on design.

Blue is 125
Xtreme is 124


One grain difference but look at the length.

People post this question all the time. The ogive of the 125 lead bullets is pretty far out there.

Last week I made up 7 dummy rounds of 158gr Acme RNFP'S for my GP100.

   The rounds were seated to 1.610 per Richard Lee's modern reloading data.  All the rounds slipped easily in and out of my Dillon case gage.

   I pulled a bullet from one of the rounds to make sure I hadn't over crimped and everything looked fine.

   I then placed the rounds in the cylinder and that's when the trouble began.

   I had difficulty closing the cylinder and when I tried to pull the hammer back the cylinder started to bind up.

   When I attempted to remove the rounds from the cylinder I had to tap the cylinder rod with a mallet to knock them out.

   I pulled the bullets and reseated to a lower c.o.l of 1.60.  Everything functioned fine.

   If your going to reload coated bullets make sure they function & fit in the intended firearm, not just the case gage.

As many have said, it's probably a length issue.  Since some came back out of the case, I'd assume the crimp was pretty weak. Are you sure you're removing the bell completely when you crimp?

Im reading up on dummy rounds and seating depths, also ogives.

When the bullets get stuck in the barrel/chamber, i have to use A LOT of force to rack the slide and get them out. Some the bullets got stuck, others it didnt.

As far as i can remember, i wasnt told or remember seeing anything about a dummy round to check. I always assumed (and dont remember seeing anything to the contrary) that whatever the listed oal is, was what it should be. So now i know.

Also, while i did technically "make" these rounds, i wasnt the one looking up the info or setting the dies. I just recently got my 9mm dies and am just getting my press setup after taking too long getting my reloading bench ready.

Hopefully after a little more research, i'll be getting this figured out, thanks everyone!

Not sure if this is possibly what happened, but is what happened to me the other night when loading 9mm.  Some how my adjustment for the seating hight moved while I was cranking them out.  Had to rerun almost 200 that where to long.  What I have done and haven't had this problem since.  Is I strengthend the area of my bench the press is on.  Bolted it to the wall in a couple more places.  Then I used a sharpie and made a dot on my dies so that if they did move by some chance I would notice the dot not in the 6 o'clock position.  Also started checking the length when I spot check the powder weight during the process.

Ran into same issue with some HiTek 125gr 9mm,

issue is "stubby" bullet profile.

Ended up at OAL of 1.08" to accommodate all my 9's.

Remember: the OAL in manuals is what they tested at,

not a "must be this or your gun will explode".

You need a more experienced reloading friend/mentor.

You don’t want to learn bad/unsafe habits/procedures.

Your bullet profile looks the same as eggleston munitions, they actualy give load data on the website with  oal of bullet.  I found their length worked in all my 9mm pistols except my xdm I had to make them a little bit shorter.

https://www.egglestonmunitions.com/load-data.html



Snowman357

So i still plan to make a dummy round, but wanting to try different methods to see what works and what doesnt.

So i tried the way of measuring the bullet, dropping the bullet into the barrel and measuring the distance from the bullet to the back and adding the 2 numbers to get max oal.

The measurement came out to 1.105.

Pretending like im not going to make a dummy round still, with that info, would i just try resizing to just smaller than that? Or do i find an oal cartridge thats under that max and go with that? Is there a worry of overpressuring since there is already a powder charge in there with making the oal too short?

The correct answer is to work up your loads again when you change something.  That said, your charge weight is low so personally I would just seat them deeper and lightly recrimp.

It's not clear to me how you came up with your measurement.  I would try to seat to 1.120" and work in from there.  

Hornady makes an OAL gauge for finding the lands in rifles but I'm not aware of something similar for handgun cartridges.  Or at least I've never seen Hornady's modified cases in handgun cartridges for use with their gauge.

If you click that link, there is a 4 step process, thats what i did for now. I will be making a dummy round longer and working it down until it fits.

Should it be just until it fits? Or go slightly shorter still?

OAL will vary from bullet to bullet so go a little shorter.  You want your longest bullets to be shorter than the max OAL that will fit.

This is why I keep a known short lead barrel and the appropriate Wilson case gauge on my bench when reloading pistol rounds and working with a new to me bullet.  Once I know the bullet fits the gauge and the barrel I make sure to record the bullet info and COAL in my notebook.

Had this problem years ago in a .45 1911 when I had to switch bullet brands because of a situation similar to the current one, where you have to buy when and what is available instead of what you normally do.

I never use the starting load.  I always split the high and low in the middle.

@ErikS
Your issue was an M&P issue.  I'm an M&P diehard, and I just spent months and months trying to figure WTF was happening with my 147gr 9mm reloads.  M&P's have chambers similar to CZ's, so you have to load it that way.  Most 147gr reloading directions won't work.

Which was my point.  Load an COAL that fits all your guns of the same caliber.

Yeah, just wanted to prevent you/your son going through the same process I did

After seeing it happen once I just load to fit his chamber. Not an issue since then.

I forgot to mention my gun in my post, it is an m&p, so i guess that has some bearing based on the last comments.

Was messing around making a dummy round, but didnt take the bell out of the mouth as i was trying different depths, i think with the bell there it was giving false/inaccurate  readings.

Gonna try another as soon as i have some time.

Just for reference, TEST ON YOUR OWN, I'm at 1.08 with the powder towards the bottom end of what is recommended.  I haven't had issues since going to the flat nose 147gr with this die set up.

I also swapped my Dillon size and crimp dies out for a Lee undersize die and a Lee crimp die.

Always “plunk” test (either with your pistol’s barrel or a gage) before you load up a bunch of rounds with a particular combination of bullet and COAL.

In my initial .380 loading runs, I discovered that bullet profile and individual pistols’ chambers interact.

With a 100 grain round nose lead bullet that has a pretty blunt nose profile, like this:

I found that:
-Glock 42 chambers the round loaded to loading manual COAL
-S&W Bodyguard chambers the round about 0.08” shorter than manual COAL
-Taurus TCP chambers the round almost 0.15” shorter than manual COAL

All three chambers meet SAAMI standards - clearly there’s some “wiggle room” for chamber throats.  With typical FMJ bullets (or lead bullets with a similar profile), all three pistols chamber at the specified COAL.

As long as you don’t have to seat those bullets a lot shorter than the manual’s specs, find out what COAL your pistol will chamber consistently and reliably, then roll it back by about 0.02” to allow for smoother functioning.

You have no crimp, turn your dies down until the case wall is flush, then set your bullet depth.

So i made a couple more dummy rounds and took out the bell/slightly crimped to try and remove that as part of the problem.

1.119 will not fall freely from my barrel and i cant spin it while in the barrel.

1.092 falls freely and spins in the barrel, but sits a little proud in my case gage. So i tried going a bit deeper.

1.082 obviously still fits the barrel, but it is still just BARELY proud of the case gage.

Im thinking my barrel is the most important check to make sure the round works, but i got my case gage to check for issues. If they dont fit right, its effectively worthless.

Should i try seating deeper to get the round to fit? More crimp? Something else im missing? Thanks.

I would load twenty and try them.

If they work in that pistol and your other 9s if you have any, then start tuning the powder for accuracy.

The only gage that matters is your barrel(s).   The others are just guides.

Here is another thing that may have bearing on this.
For years die manufacturers, ammo companies and such have tried to make the 9mm Lugar a straight walled case.
It is in fact not such.
The taper for the 9mm is on the outside of the case.
You take a 380 or 40 s&w and the taper is on the inside.
The taper is for the increased thickness needed at the case head and strength of the case.
So if your resized cases won't go in a case guage, you'll need to size them more.
But size them more than what's needed and you end up with weird wasp shape cartridges and maybe the brass sized your soft bullets down too.

When I size the case, it fits in the gage. When I bell it, it doesn't fit the gauge. When I seat to the depths I listed and did what I felt was a light crimp, still doesn't QUITE fit the gage. The 1.092 actually seems to fit better today than it did last night.

1.092

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1.082

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If you need more info or pics let me know. I'll take pics of the whole damn room if it helps! haha

looking at the photos on the big screen, it doesn't look that crimped (but obviously what do I know?)? I did as the instructions said. They are RCBS dies, I have Hornady for my .40, I think I might want to switch as well.

Also I'm using the RN bullet seating plunger thing, but it keeps taking the coating off the tip. I used one that was listed as TMJ for the first one, you don't even want to see what that one looks like!

Buy a Lee FCD (factory crimp die) now!

Seat then crimp with two different steps/dies.

Bullets are too long and you need more crimp. If the bullet falls out into the chamber while loading, you definitely need more crimp.

OP  Measure the case mouth diameter.  It looks large, like you don't have enough of a crimp to take the bell out.  Compare the measurement to a factory loaded round.  If it is much larger than the factory ammo that can keep your round from seating in a heartbeat.

I’m fighting a similar problem with 9mm. This morning I tried this to see where things were too tight.

I colored a case on a round that would not plunk in my chamber with a sharpie, then forced it in and out of the chamber a few times. Push it in then pry it back out with a small screwdriver, like this:
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Mine look like this, I can clearly see where it is too big. Attached File


Might be a useful diagnostic tool for your problem.

I'll look into the FCD.



I did what the instructions said for the crimp, but yeah, looks not enough that I can see it closer.