Bringing back an archived thread of mine.  Anything below this line is from the original thread till you see my new post below.  

Finally got a chance to finish my first batch of Cast 45ACP bullets.

Lubed, sized, and relubed. Got a 100 of them loaded up and we'll see how they do.



Now on to my questions. Keep in mind I'm a newb at casting but have some extremely knowledgeable people helping me with casting one of which is my old man.

I shoot mainly plated bullets. The norm for plated bullets in 45ACP as you know is 452 dia. I sent these cast LRNs through a Lee sizing die and it is sized to .452. With my calipers I measure .453 for both but they are some cheap Frankford Arsenal calipers so no worries there. Just for reference in this case.
Without changing any settings on my Dillon 550 the Xtreme plated bullets shoot and chamber flawlessly. 10s of thousands of rounds of those. Low and behold these cast LRN rounds fail the plunk test. They chamber tight enough that it is hard to get the slide to come back. Won't go into battery and fire ECT.

So I had to go in a half turn on my dillon crimp die to get the rounds to plunk test. Before doing that the LRN cartridges were about .474 at the case neck. The Xtremes I load I have set for about .4715 to .472. So that half a turn on the crimp die got me my .472 on the LRN.

Is this proper etiquette? Am I essentially sizing the bullet with my crimp die? Have not been back out to the range to see if these will perform now. or test accuracy. I know I know, I probably shouldn't have loaded up so many of them for testing but it was in general a family recipe.

It did show me that I think what I am seeing is that plated bullets are soft lead and that wheel weight cast lead water dropped is a good bit harder.

Any advice is always appreciated.


GHPorter  [Team Member]
5/18/2015 5:26:43 PM PDT
Yes, you're sizing the bullet with your crimp die, and it's OK. As long as you still have enough case mouth for the rounds to headspace on (instead of taper crimping it all the way into the bullet), you're fine.

unknownhavoc  [Team Member]
5/18/2015 6:08:23 PM PDT
Those appear to me to be the Lee 452-228-2R. If that is the case, they have a very large ogive, and require the bullet to be seated deep.

Generally speaking on cast bullets, you don't want to crimp, instead you want to simply remove the flair.

I would suggest pulling a bullet, and measuring the diameter, if it is under .452, you may have a problem. With cast bullets, you generally want .001-.002" over bore size. This requires you slugging your bore.

If your bullets are being sized down, this will allow gas to seep past the bullet as its traveling down the barrel, and create leading. You want the bullet to obturate to the bore.

GHPorter  [Team Member]
5/18/2015 6:21:16 PM PDT
After Havoc posted, I looked closer at those bullets. They have a very broad ogive, almost spherical. In almost all guns, that means deeper seating is needed, sometimes a LOT deeper. If your crimping is enough to size those bullets down below .452, you're going to have to go with a shorter COAL - which may change how the load runs.

I had a similar problem with .380 Auto. The 500 LRN bullets I bought for it also have very broad ogives, so instead of loading these to my planned 0.980", or even 0.950", I had to seat them to a COAL of 0.900" to get them to chamber in my Taurus. The same bullet will chamber at 0.915" in a S&W Bodyguard, and at 0.940" in a Glock 42. It's an indication of the length of the leade in my barrel being quite short, but that still means deeper seating is needed. So my .380 project had to wait until I got more bullets, new plated bullets from Rocky Mountain Reloading, with more traditional ogives. I now need to revisit loading these LRNs with some more attention to how seating depth affects pressures.

Breechlock1  [Team Member]
5/18/2015 6:28:53 PM PDT
I crimp 45 to .468. I used to have issues with cast until I started doing that. I got it from Patrick Sweeney and his "Big Fat Book of 45 ACP" and "Reloading for Handgunners". Plated is the same but they work fine at .470 if I didn't switch from FMJ

Motor1  [Team Member]
5/18/2015 7:11:48 PM PDT
You can get away with that sizing with the crimp die to some extent because it is a taper crimp so only the front of the bullet is being reduced in size.

That however is not the proper thing to do.

I, like some others who have replied, think your OAL is too long and your bullets are engaging the rifling when trying to be chambered.

I also totally agree a 45acp should only be crimped enough to remove the mouth flair. BTW: So does every loading manual I've ever read.

Motor



MRBLACK947  [Member]
5/18/2015 7:26:26 PM PDT
Thanks a ton so far for the excellent replies.

Some additional info and thoughts.

I loaded them to the standard 1.250" COAL.

I didn't think about comparing Ogive and that is definitely something to look into..

I have not slugged the barrel but will easily be able to do so.

This is a Lee mold but I'm not positive on the model number. IIRC they come out to just under 230g.

I also agree about only removing the flare hence my plated bullets being what some may consider a little large at the neck of .471 or.472ish.

I don't think the LRN load is hitting the rifling from a too long overall length in this case but I could be wrong. After sending all the rounds back through the crimp die they have a very positive thump into the chamber.

I've loaded up a magazine and hand cycled all 10 rounds through with no troubles. Glock 30S with a Lone Wolf Barrel.


dryflash3  [Moderator]
5/18/2015 7:34:26 PM PDT
If those are the Lee 1R, I seat mine to 1.21 so they will chamber in my Kinber.

At 1.25, they will not feed/chamber.

It's been a busy summer for the household as usual.  

Finally getting a chance to revisit doing some casting.    

I had it in my mind that I had to have the chamber reamed in my lone wolf barrel.  

Re reading this archived thread has me beating myself with a baseball bat.  You guys had the answer in the original thread all along.  

The ogive is goofy on this Lee bullet mold.    I followed dryflashes dimension of 1. 210" and low and behold all appears to be well in the plunk test department.  

Now the question becomes how much to reduce the powder charge?

Reduce from what?

You did not list a powder or a charge.

If you are starting from scratch, Start at the Start/minimum charge and work up, do not go below minimum.

If you are working with an existing load/charge, it's difficult to answer your question as we do not know what charge or what powder you are using.

That's a great question.  

I think I was just overthinking this too much last night.  

My brain logic was that I had a load set up for 1.250 and I just pushed the bullet in another .40 so I am taking up more case space.  When in reality I am just seating the bullet where it belongs.  

I've been using between 3.8 to 4g of Clays.  

I think also that not being able to find this bullet in any of my loading manuals has me overthinking this as well.    I just went to the Hodgdon online reloading calculator and it has a 230g LRN load shown at 1.200 with the same range of powder charge as I was using at 1.250 so I don't think I'm worrying about that anymore.  

My next thought is about feeding into the chamber at this shorter coal?  I'm making an assumption that the different bullet shape or ogive compensates for it's coal?   I'll have to load up a few at this new shorter length and hand cycle them.  Then off to the range.  

Thanks guys.

With any bullet new to you, it is best to make up a dummy for testing.   Barrels can vary a bit.

I use the Lee Factory Crimp die.   This may cause problems with some cast bullets as the required diameter may be reduced some.   You can custom fit the die if necessary.

 Not to pick-nits, but you only reduced OAL by .04, not .4.

Yes that should have been .040 not .400.   That's what happens when I respond at 3 in the morning.  ;)

I dumped the LEE FCD and belling the mouth for a Lyman M die and taper crimp.

I'm using Dillon Dies all around on my 550 to include the crimp die for these loads.      

I really think this is resolved by it's gonna be a week or so before I can get out and shoot again. :(

Thanks to all of you that posted in this thread.  

The problem has been rectified.   Shorter overall length was the trick for this boolit.