I have a M11/9. Have talked to the wife and have a green light for a second MG. The purchase will be in a year or more. (after we get her car paid off)
Looking for a shooter but something that is going to hold its value well. Have considered a UZI which is the upper end of the $$$ spectrum but have read where guys are saying the UZI market is flat and possibly dropping due to the lage uppers. I want something outside of the MAC family. I have considered a M10 due to the price and what the market will do to the value of them as lage rolls out more uppers. But already owning a M11 I just want something different.

Currently the Sten is at the top of the list. Any other sub 10K MGs that are to be considered?

Whats the story on the these MK760?

And whats the pros and cons of the Stemple 45s?
Stemple 45

MK 760 and stens should be given consideration but I wouldn’t rule out the Uzi. Prices have been pretty flat on them for the last year or two. I think the Uzi is worth the difference over either the sten or mk760.

Uzi parts are very plentiful and mags are cheap. MK760 parts are scarce at best.

I got a m11 earlier this year. I liked it so much I dropped some coin on a m16 . A Uzi , sten , or mk760 will be similar as they all shoot 9mm . I needed/wanted a rifle caliber machine gun other than a conversion. I would say a m10 or stemple in 45acp would be a logical choice just because you have 9mm covered

I don't think any of those will be worth the price to upgrade from the M11/9 with whatever Lage goodies you're running on it.

I would save more toward a rifle caliber MG.

It's a bit more than 10k (though not a lot as prices have been dropping) but a registered receiver UZI would be a good one to think about. Track down a .45 conversion kit and a 22lr kit and you'd have a pretty sweet setup.  Also make sure you get on the waiting list for the Lage MAX-11/15 upper for your 5.56 FA needs.

You're interested in a pistol caliber SMG for <$10k?
Beretta 38/43
Madsen M-50
Ingram model 6

Yeah a pistol caliber MG.

Would really want maxim but Im not a machinist and lack the necessary tools, skill and work place to keep one of them going. And a vickers is out of the price range now.

Inst the Ingram M6 hard to find mags and parts for?

Havent looked into the Beretta 38/42s.

Im keeping the M11.

Just want a second MG thats a shooter. I have 2 daughters and would like to leave each a MG one day. Or multiple

That's what I had in mind as well (keeping the M11/9).

Assuming you've got Lage uppers and stuff, none of these models are going to perform any better.

Are you just looking for an investment?

Investment that I can enjoy. yes

I'd go with the UZI then, if you can find one within your budget. Registered receiver is best (because caliber conversions) and slots look dumb.

Whats the deal with the slots?

I have read where folks were talking about them in conjunction with Reg Bolts.

I owned a vector semi auto UZI years ago but it was just a semi. I remember it being super heavy and kinda clunky. I know they are supposed to be great shooters. They do look cool.

All registered bolts are slotted (like semi-auto bolts) to bypass the blocking bar inside a semi-auto receiver. The bolt works like dropping a DIAS into a host (you need the other select-fire parts to make everything work correctly).

Fullsize UZIs, as you know, are very heavy. The Mini is better. I've never fired a Micro.

I don't think they're great shooters. Most people who say that haven't fired a Beretta PM12S or an MP5.

I think even the Steyr MPi 69 and 81 are smoother shooters, but they're harder to clean (because there's no removable top cover).

So for a Reg Bolt you need the bolt of course and I guess a FA UZI lower?

Pop the pins and replace the semi auto lower with the FA lower & bolt?

Also I know some bolts have been married to receivers can you point me in the direction of what that looks like or post a pic.

Not that I'm trying to run you off, but you should look on UZItalk. They have great info in their reference section.

Something has to be done to make the FA trigger group fit the receiver. The SA receivers use a larger diameter hole for the retaining pin, so most people squeeze a brass offset bushing into that receiver lug. Then the FA trigger group will pin into place, and the bushing generally stays put when you disassemble it.

I think another way is to drill the FA trigger group pin hole bigger, but I can't remember if something stops that from working.

"Married" bolts/guns are bad. That's an improper registration, caused by someone doing something dumb, like slotting the bolt and registering the receiver, or registering an unmodified FA bolt, and removing the blocking bar from a SA receiver. They look like the normal conversions, except the paperwork is wrong. If you just have photos to go by, the s/n and required markings on the wrong part will usually give them away.

I wouldn't buy one of those, but I'd pay the transfer tax if somebody gave me one. There's always the chance ATF will declare it an unlawful conversion/registration during a transfer (or maybe even upon inspection) and seize it. They haven't yet (AFAIK) but they do have a reason to, so it's not worth the risk IMHO.

Yeah Im on UZI talk but mainly stay in the mac section. Wanted to get my feet wet on some UZI info before going to UZItalk and asking dumb questions.

Thanks for your help.

You have any first hand experience with the MK760s?

My first was a Vector Mini Uzi, NIB.
My second was a M2 Carbine.
Sold the M2 to help buy my third, a M16 RR.
Bought an M1 Carbine to offset the M2 Carbine itch.
Sold the Mini Uzi to buy property. (250% ROI)
Bought a 4.5" 9mm upper for the M16 to scratch the PCC itch.

Still sad I sold the Mini Uzi, but the M16 is by far the best of the three and the 9mm upper helps.
I don't miss the M2.

I also have a .22LR conversion for it.
I also have a XMG99 conversion for it with both .308 and 8x57 setups, but the ATF ruined that fun.  Now the XMG99 wears a semi lower full time.
But for a little while, I was rockin' .22LR, 9mm, .223, .308 & 8x57.

I gotcha.
You're welcome.

We had a couple come through the gunsmith shop. One needed ejector work and I can't remember about the other one. We may have just been selling it.
They aren't as well made as a S&W 76 but they're good.
They are not able to be reconfigured and they don't accept drums, so the only really cool thing about them is that US spec ops used the S&W 76 in Vietnam.

I would instead look at a Swedish K (Carl Gustav m/45) because you can swap the mag well out to accept drums or coffin mags (50rd) and they were also used in Vietnam by US forces (prior to the S&W 76).

The Egyptian "Port Said" is the same gun.
The Egyptian Akaba was a simplified version (never heard of one in the US).

My boss had a Port Said and real S&W 76. They're fun.

When you say M1 do you mean semi or modified FA M1?

I have a IBM M1 and never shot it. I do like the M1 as far as looks and history. Not sure Id like feeding a FA M2.

Ingram m6 parts are hard to find. Mags are available at Apex.  https://www.apexgunparts.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Ingram+m6

If parts availability is a high priority then look at the Sten MKII

Not relevant.

I have never seen a transferable Madsen M-50 offered for sale. Not saying they are not available, just that I have never seen one offered up for sale.

I have, but it’s been many years.

I'll add a +1 for an M16 RR. Pricey, but being able to swap uppers and shoot so many calibers is pretty damn cool

The blue dots indicate it must be happening.

Attached File

I've heard good things about the reising. Never fired one tho. Keep in mind 45 will get expensive to shoot

Sterling is what you are after

To me, Since you have two girls, I agree with the PP that recommended getting another M11/NINE.  The platform is really starting to develop, so you could keep one in pistol caliber and one in rifle caliber for yourself.  When you are ready to pass them on, one for each child.

Scott

I vote getting another M11/9 or similar Lage supported Mac style platform.

I have an M11/9 and a RR M16 pending but if I was limited to $15K or less when I bought the M16 I would have purchased another Mac and the Lage Max-11/15 rifle upper as my place in line comes up (around $11K total). The versatility is high in that platform and the cost is still reasonable, but climbing.

Yeah that's an example of a "married" conversion, due to improper registration.

The blocking bar must've been removed from the receiver, so it should've been a registered receiver.

He won't be getting my 11k.

If I got another mac most likely it would be a M10. Need to do some more research on a slow fire upper in 45 for the M10.

Machine guns are actually a rather poor monetary investment.  There are many machine gun ownership cost factors - factors that the machine gun owning enthusiast sometimes fails to recognize and address - that detract from the investment value of machine guns.  Such expenses as, and not necessarily limited to: ammo cost; wear and tear on gun parts; added fire and theft loss insurance as an additional rider on their home owners insurance or as a separate policy; the cost and bother (especially an issue with belt fed machine guns) of trips to a suitable (i.e., full auto and often caliber accepting) range and if one is using one’s own property, the initial cost, plus on going taxes, insurance and other upkeep costs on the property; gun club/range membership initial fee and continuing dues if one shoots at such a venue; and opportunity cost of otherwise investing the funds used to purchase the machine gun.  Meanwhile, with other investments such as stocks, index funds, certificates of deposit, bonds, etc. the ownership expenses are relatively low.  Of course there are some machine gun enthusiasts with safe queens that they enjoy for what they are regardless of strictly monetary value, so their ammo and wear and tear costs may be minimal.

Specifically regarding ammo cost.  Take a SWD M11/9 with a Lage MAX11/15 upper as an example.  The MAX11/15 has a cost of a little over $3000 with shipping.  Assume XM193 5.56 ammo at $365 per 1000 rounds, not taking into account that cost can be reduced somewhat by reloading, and also assume a rate of fire of 700 rounds per minute.  A shooter will spend the entire $3000 cost of the MAX11/15 with less than 12 minutes of time on the trigger turning ammo into smoke and noise.  While you can reduce the ammo cost somewhat by reloading (keeping in mind that open bolt, pistol caliber submachine guns may be more destructive of brass than closed bolt firearms), that does not do much to eliminate what is probably the largest single expense of long term machine gun ownership; or address any of the other above noted machine gun ownership related costs.

Disclaimer:  I own more than one machine gun, and I shoot them.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

That would have been my path as well, a Mac that fires .45 ACP and has some Lage support. Then you'd end up with the ability to fire 9MM, 22LR, and 5.56 from the M11/9, and .45ACP and 9MM from the M10/45 (5.56 will be possible in the distant future as Lage has announced a Max-10/15 is in the works).

Have you thought about a Mini-14?  You got the MAC for high volume blasting, a mini lets you get into a rifle caliber.

What about the Stemple guns?  Maybe a MAC10.  The problem is you already have the best sub $10k machine gun available.

Yeah I guess the question is whats the best second tier 10K MG available.

All very true. I think the key is just realizing MGs shouldn't be your primary investment vehicle. Ive always seen MGs as an alternative investment, kind of like collecting art, coins, antique cars or fine wine. You would never want to cash out your 401k and put all of your retirement savings in an alternative investment, that's super risky. But if you have little or no debt, your 401k contributions are maxed each year, and you have money left over why not put it into something that brings you joy.

I was in the same boat OP. Stumbled across a deal on a M10 as my first. The itch got real for a second one, so I ended up going with a sten. Not a month after I had bought it I got called on a deal for a RR m16. As in, you can't turn this down, type of deal. Now I'm shopping again.

Be very careful, NFAids is a real thing. More terminal than BRD...

the best pistol caliber is gonna be the one with the best magazines.

The beretta 38.

double feed....easy to load.....

smooth and nice but the Uzi is the same.

A) Sell the MAC and buy an M16 RR or RDIAS

B) Cool your jets and get these three things; Lage Max-11sk upper with Tungsten bolt, Lage Max31 upper, Max-11/15 upper, and a boatload of soumi and Magpul D-60 drums.

C) stretch your budget a tiny bit and look at Ruger AC556... I think they can be found around $11-12k

Those are really the only three practical choices from a best performance for you dollar standpoint. The MAC+Lage 9mm kits are already the best functional SMGs out there and the MAC can now shoot 5.56mm... basically making the Max-11/15 the cheapest assault rifle, too.

Obviously an AR15 RR does all that too, albeit at 15k more expensive. The AC556 gives you an assault rifle, but caliber conversions and accessories can be lacking. An M11 with a few kits plus an AC556 is probably the most versatility per dollar though... you get a real SMG and a real automatic rifle for less than the cost of an M16 or RR.

But If you want to just collect transferable MGs though... can’t go wrong with an Uzi. They’re cool as hell.

I was about to say something about an FNC, but GOOD LORD!!  What the heck happened to the prices on those?!

They’re practically going for conversion-16 money!

The prices being asked for FNC's are silly. I would be surprised if they are actually selling with any frequency in that price range. It seems like many that are listed over and over again...

Semi M1.  The M2 was ok, but finding 30 round mags that worked was a pain.  Selling it to help fund the M16 was well worth it.

I like the idea of a M2 but just cringe at the idea of feeding it. But I guess if you only drag it out 2-4 times a year for a couple hundred rounds wouldn’t be bad.

And as far as guns be reposted numerous times, I’ve noticed on MGCentral a few Reisings that have been posted for a few months. Specifically the one with a plad blanket and scope.

Yeah its not at the top of the list. That would be a 4-5th option. Wish they had a slower rate of fire.

My only machine gun is a BRP STG U9. If you want a shooter take a look at those.

I agree with your assessment of the Reising.....unless you know it works assume you have a lot of mag tweaking to do....

My first MG was an M11/9, my second an S&W 76. I don't have time to read the whole thread, but if you haven't shot one you really should, it handles completely different from a stock or Lage'd M11/9

What about the MK series of guns?