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Posted: 6/10/2022 2:57:31 PM EDT
Saw this earlier, looks like a US Carmel. I’d love to have one but I REALLY don’t like the Americanized handguard.
 
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Posted: 6/10/2022 3:41:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Neat
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Posted: 6/10/2022 3:54:09 PM EDT
[#2]
I like it. Are these for sale in the US yet?
Cant seem to find much on them |
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Posted: 6/10/2022 4:38:48 PM EDT
[#3]
These look like ATF photos...kind of like when the Hellion came about...so I'd say we are a good 3-4 months out...
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Posted: 6/10/2022 7:43:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Interested in the Carmel overall but that “Americanized” version looks like hammered dog crap. A lot like the Bren 2 carbine that I also skipped.
I’m a little more picky here in 2022 with where my toy money goes. The Hellion at least is pretty close to a VHS-K2. |
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Posted: 6/10/2022 9:52:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interested in the Carmel overall but that “Americanized” version looks like hammered dog crap. A lot like the Bren 2 carbine that I also skipped. I’m a little more picky here in 2022 with where my toy money goes. The Hellion at least is pretty close to a VHS-K2. I'm not understanding the "gas block access hole in the HG" trend that seems to be the latest thing lately, especially as I don't see the advantage of mounting something over the top of a hot gas block. Besides, how much rail RE (& weight) is really needed to get the job done?  Israel's New Battle Rifle From IWI: The Carmel Nice rifle. That "Americanized" aluminum HG ruins it. If that's an import configuration, then that HG is no doubt a workaround US made part, but they should've stuck with the original HG format & just made a domestic copy of it.  IWI CARMEL |
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Posted: 6/11/2022 1:38:59 AM EDT
[#6]
I don't get the 'put an AR15 grip on everything' mentality. Squirt the plastic in the US if you need 922r parts. Also, we will buy this for foreign military street cred, not because it's the best gun ever made. Give us the gun the military uses (within legal limitations). Otherwise, not interested.
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Posted: 6/11/2022 8:59:11 AM EDT
[#7]
Looks like a Beretta ARX with a new stock and handguard.
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Posted: 6/11/2022 10:17:57 AM EDT
[#8]
I was never really excited about the Carmel, but with the changes made to Americanize it I wouldn't even consider it.
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Posted: 6/11/2022 2:13:00 PM EDT
[#9]
It looks a lot like a Bushmaster ACR. The new handguard on the Carmel looks stupid. Its ruined like the Gen 2 Galil Ace.
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Posted: 6/13/2022 11:55:07 PM EDT
[#10]
I like it!
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Posted: 6/14/2022 4:08:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Unfortunately, M-Lok is the new hotness in the civilian world and people would complain if it came with the picatinny rails at 3, 6, and 9 like the military version. The military seems perfectly happy with the standard picatinny rail system.
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Posted: 6/14/2022 11:43:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately, M-Lok is the new hotness in the civilian world and people would complain if it came with the picatinny rails at 3, 6, and 9 like the military version. The military seems perfectly happy with the standard picatinny rail system. The military is specing MLOK in all recent weapons programs (MRGG, NGSW, etc) |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 3:32:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The military is specing MLOK in all recent weapons programs (MRGG, NGSW, etc) It doesn't need to take up the majority of the gun's volume & nearly swallow the full length of the barrel for sufficient RE to mount stuff. That thing is hideously large & makes the rifle bigger than it ought to be. Also, being aluminum, it'll conduct heat instead of insulate like polymer. I'd hope Manticore or other could offer a more svelt alternative. |
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Posted: 6/15/2022 6:30:55 AM EDT
[#14]
I don’t mind Mlok, but really dislike the longer receiver and longer handguard.
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Posted: 6/15/2022 10:11:21 AM EDT
[#15]
.... one of the very few rifles I had had interest in - but in its original configuration, not this abomination
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Posted: 6/15/2022 5:27:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Can anyone tell if this gun is Polymer or Aluminum upper / lower?
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Posted: 6/15/2022 5:58:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can anyone tell if this gun is Polymer or Aluminum upper / lower? |
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Posted: 6/16/2022 12:09:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Who at the company is being paid to make these bad decisions? We want the .mil version, not the gross US market version.
Like others have already said, they ruined it like they did the new Gen 2 Galils. |
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Posted: 6/16/2022 4:12:53 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The original design is made of polymer - the US version seems to be made at least partially of aluminum Looks like the HG is aluminum & the rest is poly. The barrel QD release cam lever looks like it has been moved back above mag well, & the lower also has different geometry around the grip area. The HG is probably a "parts count" work around, I'd guess. |
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Posted: 6/16/2022 6:21:38 PM EDT
[#20]
According to IWI this is the US version but it hasn’t got ATF approval as of yet. They said the feedback they have is people prefer the aluminum Mlok over the polymer. I guess if you want it in its OG form better let IWI US know.
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Posted: 6/16/2022 9:51:24 PM EDT
[#21]
I don’t mind that the HG is aluminum or is M-Lok. I also get that US parts need to added. That said, I prefer that the length and shape the original with the angled front, and the front of the gas plug exposed instead of having to be accessed by an ugly cutout in a longer handguard.
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:00:50 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: According to IWI this is the US version but it hasn’t got ATF approval as of yet. They said the feedback they have is people prefer the aluminum Mlok over the polymer. I guess if you want it in its OG form better let IWI US know. Quote HistoryQuoted: According to IWI this is the US version but it hasn’t got ATF approval as of yet. They said the feedback they have is people prefer the aluminum Mlok over the polymer. I guess if you want it in its OG form better let IWI US know. So they're claiming they did an actual market poll? Funny, I never heard anything about it before this thread. An Mlok format HG is fine, doesn't have look like a scale version of the NJ bridge. Extending it past the gas block with a cut access hole on the side is ridiculous & makes it ungainly relative to its original profile. It's curious that IWI has been able to import their BP offerings without mucking the HG, but the rifle gets raped. Quoted: I don’t mind that the HG is aluminum or is M-Lok. I also get that US parts need to added. That said, I prefer that the length and shape the original with the angled front, and the front of the gas plug exposed instead of having to be accessed by an ugly cutout in a longer handguard. Exactly. Wonder if there's a way to contact IWI-US & bring them up to speed? |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 8:49:23 AM EDT
[#23]
The US version looks better than the original.
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Posted: 6/17/2022 9:39:55 AM EDT
[#24]
I'll keep my tactical tuna ARX100 thanks.
Between the .308 ACE & UZI I don't have any desire for more IWI guns unless they clock in under $1000. |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 9:44:17 AM EDT
[#25]
I’m in
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Posted: 6/17/2022 9:52:50 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The US version looks better than the original. I'd love to write IWI to let them know |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 10:34:00 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I disagree. I'd love to write IWI to let them know Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The US version looks better than the original. I'd love to write IWI to let them know Email: [email protected] Phone: 717-695-2081 Fax: 717-412-0873 |
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:49:04 PM EDT
[#28]
I sent an email expressing my preference for the original. I also expressed concern about flooding a generic email address pushing this opinion on an employee that's not in a position to do anything about it, so I asked what's the best way for others that feel the same way to communicate this to someone that can.
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Posted: 6/17/2022 1:49:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryAppreciate!
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Posted: 6/17/2022 2:26:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I sent an email expressing my preference for the original. I also expressed concern about flooding a generic email address pushing this opinion on an employee that's not in a position to do anything about it, so I asked what's the best way for others that feel the same way to communicate this to someone that can. Well played. The messaging needs to be effective. |
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Posted: 6/20/2022 4:50:55 PM EDT
[#31]
I sent them this suggestion:
...speaking as a prospective customer, I would encourage IWI to consider reducing the length & forward profile of the handguard to that of the original design, as the prototype configuration adds excessive size & weight to the original design. As a suggestion, extending the handguard out to just behind the gas regulator would be ideal, & since Mlok format does allow for "1/2" length slots, the top row could consist of a full & a half slot, & lower row could have of 3 slots, & would enable the domestic handguard to approximate the size & shape of the original's design. Hope it gets traction. |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 3:37:58 AM EDT
[#32]
The Americanized version looks a lot better. But having both options seems to be best. But a lot of choices IWI has made I am not happy with. Like the gen 2 Galil. So I don't think I would even get this either way.
Never even heard of this gun before, so what is it's claim to fame? |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 7:56:26 AM EDT
[#33]
Is this a replacement for whatever they are using now?
I like the non US version myself |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 2:09:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Americanized version looks a lot better. But having both options seems to be best. But a lot of choices IWI has made I am not happy with. Like the gen 2 Galil. So I don't think I would even get this either way. Never even heard of this gun before, so what is it's claim to fame? https://iwi.net/carmel/ My guess is it's a move to position IWI as a stronger global competitor to HK. The G36 has been pretty successful across the world for them but it is an aging design. Countries that have adopted it will be looking for a replacement in the near future. HK has the 433 in the pipeline but they really haven't gone anywhere with it yet. IWI can read the tea leaves and knows a lot of those countries won't want a bullpup or modernized AK like the Galil ACE. They do have their Arad piston upper but the 416 has been so dominant they may be more cautious competing with it. So they've cooked up their own modernized AR-18 derivative to enter the race. I'm curious about the Arad myself but piston ARs on the US market aren't a winning move usually. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 7:53:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is this a replacement for whatever they are using now? I like the non US version myself No it’s just like the ace “Gen 2” are US market only according to IWI int. |
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Posted: 6/25/2022 8:31:39 AM EDT
[#36]
I honestly like the new handguard. The old one makes it look like a unicorn fish... at least they went away from the tuna look.
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Posted: 6/25/2022 11:34:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I honestly like the new handguard. The old one makes it look like a unicorn fish... at least they went away from the tuna look. I would prefer that it didn't extend past the gas block with that gaping access hole in the side. |
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Posted: 6/26/2022 1:17:39 AM EDT
[#38]
I dont really care for either look. I see it like the galil:
 You got the first gen that looks good and has the character of a galil, but with some issues. Then you got the Gen 2:  Fixe some of the issues that were there, but you also kill the character that the original had. For as ugly as the original handguard is, it aleast had so uniqueness. |
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Posted: 6/26/2022 8:47:31 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would prefer that it didn't extend past the gas block with that gaping access hole in the side. Quote HistoryQuoted: I would prefer that it didn't extend past the gas block with that gaping access hole in the side. I do agree with you there. I think it looks more aesthetically pleasing when the gas block is a bit forward of the end of the handguard on AR-180 platforms. Once they hide the block with the handguard it doesn't look as good. Quoted: I dont really care for either look. I see it like the galil: https://iwi.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/GAR1639.png You got the first gen that looks good and has the character of a galil, but with some issues. Then you got the Gen 2: https://www.sngtactical.com/prodimages/1459-default-L.jpg Fixe some of the issues that were there, but you also kill the character that the original had. For as ugly as the original handguard is, it aleast had so uniqueness. Man don't get me started on the ACE. I thought the Gen1 looked so good, then IWI had to release the abomination that is the Gen2. Granted the Gen2 improvements are great, but they needed to at least keep the irons. Removing the fixed irons completely killed the look of the gun IMO. |
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Posted: 7/2/2022 11:36:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://iwi.net/carmel/ My guess is it's a move to position IWI as a stronger global competitor to HK. The G36 has been pretty successful across the world for them but it is an aging design. Countries that have adopted it will be looking for a replacement in the near future. HK has the 433 in the pipeline but they really haven't gone anywhere with it yet. IWI can read the tea leaves and knows a lot of those countries won't want a bullpup or modernized AK like the Galil ACE. They do have their Arad piston upper but the 416 has been so dominant they may be more cautious competing with it. So they've cooked up their own modernized AR-18 derivative to enter the race. I'm curious about the Arad myself but piston ARs on the US market aren't a winning move usually. Good, I'd prefer IWI to dominate HK and their antiquated/complex/expensive/not for you civilians designs. That said, I also recognize that I may be alone in that opinion. |
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Posted: 7/3/2022 2:21:00 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://iwi.net/carmel/ My guess is it's a move to position IWI as a stronger global competitor to HK. The G36 has been pretty successful across the world for them but it is an aging design. Countries that have adopted it will be looking for a replacement in the near future. HK has the 433 in the pipeline but they really haven't gone anywhere with it yet. IWI can read the tea leaves and knows a lot of those countries won't want a bullpup or modernized AK like the Galil ACE. They do have their Arad piston upper but the 416 has been so dominant they may be more cautious competing with it. So they've cooked up their own modernized AR-18 derivative to enter the race. I'm curious about the Arad myself but piston ARs on the US market aren't a winning move usually. You won’t be seeing the Arad on the US market until LMT’s patents expire or IWI pays up like Colt. |
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Posted: 7/3/2022 8:06:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It looks a lot like a Bushmaster ACR. The new handguard on the Carmel looks stupid. Its ruined like the Gen 2 Galil Ace. I'm not one to usually complain about height over bore, but that seems kind of excessive. The sloped part at the front of the original handguard makes it seem a lot less noticeable. The ACR is generally considered to be a good looking rifle. This looks...clunky. |
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Posted: 7/3/2022 8:14:18 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not one to usually complain about height over bore, but that seems kind of excessive. The sloped part at the front of the original handguard makes it seem a lot less noticeable. The ACR is generally considered to be a good looking rifle. This looks...clunky. I am interested in the original configuration of the Carmel provided it can stay true to how it was presented and introduced. After all, however, I realize I may already have that rifle times two - so probably it's irrelevant for me to go after another IWI (also have an X95)  ACR SBR Suppressed by Solo__, on Flickr  Beretta ARX100 SBR by Solo__, on Flickr |
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Posted: 7/3/2022 8:22:19 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with this. I own both an ACR (SBR) and an ARX100 (SBR), pictured below. I am interested in the original configuration of the Carmel provided it can stay true to how it was presented and introduced. After all, however, I realize I may already have that rifle times two - so probably it's irrelevant for me to go after another IWI (also have an X95) https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51793087178_084885671d_b.jpg ACR SBR Suppressed by Solo__, on Flickr https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52091225898_b13eeb5203_b.jpg Beretta ARX100 SBR by Solo__, on Flickr I'm still pissed at myself for not grabbing a Beretta when they were $800 
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Posted: 7/3/2022 9:34:08 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm still pissed at myself for not grabbing a Beretta when they were $800 Feel better! |
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Posted: 7/3/2022 11:37:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm still pissed at myself for not grabbing a Beretta when they were $800 I'm pissed for not grabbing more   Attached File |
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Posted: 7/4/2022 6:33:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Only on ARFCOM would people bitch about an extended Al rail on an imported rifle. Good grief, you people kill me!
 . The hypocrisy as well, when Geissele, Daniel Defense and BCM are throwing 14-15” rails on their 16” rifles. IWI is giving you more real estate for lights, optics, IR crap. I’m sure it will work quite well. Having said that, I’ll take either the original or the extended Al handguard. If the Carmel uses AR triggers, it will be even more awesome. A short stroke piston rifle with a chrome lined CHF barrel, adjustable gas block for suppressed use, and manufactured in Israel will work quite well for me. Would love to see the Arad upper as well. I just wish this would have come out before the SCAR 16 NRCH Dear IWI: Please make sure you provide spare parts (bolts, firing pins, lower parts) and thread the barrel in 1/2-28. Spare barrels for a 14.5” pin and weld or SBR length would be great as well. https://iwi.net/carmel/ |
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Posted: 7/4/2022 8:47:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Why are the new designs so chonky?
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Posted: 7/4/2022 9:05:25 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only on ARFCOM would people bitch about an extended Al rail on an imported rifle. Good grief, you people kill me! . The hypocrisy as well, when Geissele, Daniel Defense and BCM are throwing 14-15” rails on their 16” rifles. IWI is giving you more real estate for lights, optics, IR crap. I’m sure it will work quite well. Having said that, I’ll take either the original or the extended Al handguard. If the Carmel uses AR triggers, it will be even more awesome. A short stroke piston rifle with a chrome lined CHF barrel, adjustable gas block for suppressed use, and manufactured in Israel will work quite well for me. Would love to see the Arad upper as well. I just wish this would have come out before the SCAR 16 NRCH Dear IWI: Please make sure you provide spare parts (bolts, firing pins, lower parts) and thread the barrel in 1/2-28. Spare barrels for a 14.5” pin and weld or SBR length would be great as well. https://iwi.net/carmel/ I don't care what Geissele, Daniel Defense, & BCM are throwing, & this isn't supposed to be an AR. That much rail is overkill. The original looks handy. This thing is a chunk. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 8:20:38 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only on ARFCOM would people bitch about an extended Al rail on an imported rifle. Good grief, you people kill me! . The hypocrisy as well, when Geissele, Daniel Defense and BCM are throwing 14-15” rails on their 16” rifles. IWI is giving you more real estate for lights, optics, IR crap. I’m sure it will work quite well. Having said that, I’ll take either the original or the extended Al handguard. If the Carmel uses AR triggers, it will be even more awesome. A short stroke piston rifle with a chrome lined CHF barrel, adjustable gas block for suppressed use, and manufactured in Israel will work quite well for me. Would love to see the Arad upper as well. I just wish this would have come out before the SCAR 16 NRCH Dear IWI: Please make sure you provide spare parts (bolts, firing pins, lower parts) and thread the barrel in 1/2-28. Spare barrels for a 14.5” pin and weld or SBR length would be great as well. https://iwi.net/carmel/ I agree. There’s bullpups in the world. |
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