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Posted: 7/6/2022 9:19:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are the new designs so chonky? This is a very valid question. I don't understand, even an old tech HBAR AR carbine is fit and trim compared to some of these designs. What is the draw? |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 6:37:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Probably because of the materials used, and the bolt carrier configurations.
Add in the desire to have a front, non-recipricating charging handle, and Viola'. You now have a mechanical offset that rivals a carry handle mounted scope. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 8:07:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good, I'd prefer IWI to dominate HK and their antiquated/complex/expensive/not for you civilians designs. That said, I also recognize that I may be alone in that opinion. Not alone, at least two of us now. IWI can make quality guns and lower prices and better support than HK could only dream about. HK just does not need the .CiV market and it shows. |
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Posted: 7/22/2022 6:58:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not alone, at least two of us now. IWI can make quality guns and lower prices and better support than HK could only dream about. HK just does not need the .CiV market and it shows. Make that three. I refuse to buy any more HK weapons just because my checking account taps out after I'm done paying for it (Say nothing of my better half when I hint at how much I paid for it). Are you paying attention IWI? |
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Posted: 7/23/2022 10:28:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Probably not going to hear much about it until at or around SHOT '23, I'd wager.
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Posted: 8/2/2022 8:10:05 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only on ARFCOM would people bitch about an extended Al rail on an imported rifle. Good grief, you people kill me!  . The hypocrisy as well, when Geissele, Daniel Defense and BCM are throwing 14-15” rails on their 16” rifles. IWI is giving you more real estate for lights, optics, IR crap. I’m sure it will work quite well. Having said that, I’ll take either the original or the extended Al handguard. If the Carmel uses AR triggers, it will be even more awesome. A short stroke piston rifle with a chrome lined CHF barrel, adjustable gas block for suppressed use, and manufactured in Israel will work quite well for me. Would love to see the Arad upper as well. I just wish this would have come out before the SCAR 16 NRCH Dear IWI: Please make sure you provide spare parts (bolts, firing pins, lower parts) and thread the barrel in 1/2-28. Spare barrels for a 14.5” pin and weld or SBR length would be great as well. https://iwi.net/carmel/ Exactly what I was thinking! The gun community is like a drunk woman with PMS who just woke up from a dream where you cheated on them Also, I find it ironic that we are complaining that a 3rd gen based gun isn't remaining exactly the same, you know, because the evolution that resulted in 3rd gen should just stop! Also, now aluminum is bad bad bad, and plastic fantastic is the holy option, you seriously couldn't make this shit up  
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Posted: 8/2/2022 7:58:43 PM EDT
[#7]
"Imported rifle design", is "WHY" i buy imported rifles,,,, for the "imported looks" as much as their take on rifle design ?
Tired of boring half assed "pre import" "Americanized" IMPORTED rifle rail, mag, and pistol grip AND """OPTICS Changes (a big one)"". I WANT THE ORIGINAL DESIGN WITH ALL IT FLAWS OR IMROVEMENTS AND OPTICS !!! "as true to the original as possible" just in semi auto. I mean,, fuck,, NEW AMERICAN COMPANIES are built on trying to make true clones of foreign guns AS WE SPEAK ? DON'T THESE FORIEGN COMPANIES SEE THAT ? BS has been getting ridiculous FOR YEARS.. I want to buy cool imported guns BUT WE BARELY SEE THEM without quick " AMERICAN BASTARDIZATION" before import. Id own a dozen true semi auto versions of TRUE/Correct original imported rifle designs.,,, BUT NOPE,, NOT A ONE of these stupid "Americanized **MUH -M-LOK !!** Hybrids" These companies are wasting money and time CHANGING their designs into things true collectors REALLY DON'T WANT.. When all they had to do was negate the FA features, AND SEND THEM DOWN THE LINE. |
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Posted: 8/2/2022 9:49:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly what I was thinking! The gun community is like a drunk woman with PMS who just woke up from a dream where you cheated on them Also, I find it ironic that we are complaining that a 3rd gen based gun isn't remaining exactly the same, you know, because the evolution that resulted in 3rd gen should just stop! Also, now aluminum is bad bad bad, and plastic fantastic is the holy option, you seriously couldn't make this shit up Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Only on ARFCOM would people bitch about an extended Al rail on an imported rifle. Good grief, you people kill me! . The hypocrisy as well, when Geissele, Daniel Defense and BCM are throwing 14-15” rails on their 16” rifles. IWI is giving you more real estate for lights, optics, IR crap. I’m sure it will work quite well. Having said that, I’ll take either the original or the extended Al handguard. If the Carmel uses AR triggers, it will be even more awesome. A short stroke piston rifle with a chrome lined CHF barrel, adjustable gas block for suppressed use, and manufactured in Israel will work quite well for me. Would love to see the Arad upper as well. I just wish this would have come out before the SCAR 16 NRCH Dear IWI: Please make sure you provide spare parts (bolts, firing pins, lower parts) and thread the barrel in 1/2-28. Spare barrels for a 14.5” pin and weld or SBR length would be great as well. https://iwi.net/carmel/ Exactly what I was thinking! The gun community is like a drunk woman with PMS who just woke up from a dream where you cheated on them Also, I find it ironic that we are complaining that a 3rd gen based gun isn't remaining exactly the same, you know, because the evolution that resulted in 3rd gen should just stop! Also, now aluminum is bad bad bad, and plastic fantastic is the holy option, you seriously couldn't make this shit up I’m with you guys. This “3rd Gen” is the version that I would want. The lower taking AR grips is a huge plus (plus if it takes AR triggers). The new handguard looks more useable and modern for adding accessories. Aluminum > polymer always. I don’t see any downsides. Unless one is just a “collector” and doesn’t care about day to day use. IWI was smart with these updates for the US market. Makes it a more useable rifle. |
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Posted: 8/3/2022 2:13:30 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm fine with an MLok hg, but the added length past the gas block is excessive. How much hg do you need?
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Posted: 8/3/2022 8:45:21 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Imported rifle design", is "WHY" i buy imported rifles,,,, for the "imported looks" as much as their take on rifle design ? Tired of boring half assed "pre import" "Americanized" IMPORTED rifle rail, mag, and pistol grip AND """OPTICS Changes (a big one)"". I WANT THE ORIGINAL DESIGN WITH ALL IT FLAWS OR IMROVEMENTS AND OPTICS !!! "as true to the original as possible" just in semi auto. I mean,, fuck,, NEW AMERICAN COMPANIES are built on trying to make true clones of foreign guns AS WE SPEAK ? DON'T THESE FORIEGN COMPANIES SEE THAT ? BS has been getting ridiculous FOR YEARS.. I want to buy cool imported guns BUT WE BARELY SEE THEM without quick " AMERICAN BASTARDIZATION" before import. Id own a dozen true semi auto versions of TRUE/Correct original imported rifle designs.,,, BUT NOPE,, NOT A ONE of these stupid "Americanized **MUH -M-LOK !!** Hybrids" These companies are wasting money and time CHANGING their designs into things true collectors REALLY DON'T WANT.. When all they had to do was negate the FA features, AND SEND THEM DOWN THE LINE. Word! Drop the mic! |
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Posted: 8/3/2022 7:54:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Imported rifle design", is "WHY" i buy imported rifles,,,, for the "imported looks" as much as their take on rifle design ? Tired of boring half assed "pre import" "Americanized" IMPORTED rifle rail, mag, and pistol grip AND """OPTICS Changes (a big one)"". I WANT THE ORIGINAL DESIGN WITH ALL IT FLAWS OR IMROVEMENTS AND OPTICS !!! "as true to the original as possible" just in semi auto. I mean,, fuck,, NEW AMERICAN COMPANIES are built on trying to make true clones of foreign guns AS WE SPEAK ? DON'T THESE FORIEGN COMPANIES SEE THAT ? BS has been getting ridiculous FOR YEARS.. I want to buy cool imported guns BUT WE BARELY SEE THEM without quick " AMERICAN BASTARDIZATION" before import. Id own a dozen true semi auto versions of TRUE/Correct original imported rifle designs.,,, BUT NOPE,, NOT A ONE of these stupid "Americanized **MUH -M-LOK !!** Hybrids" These companies are wasting money and time CHANGING their designs into things true collectors REALLY DON'T WANT.. When all they had to do was negate the FA features, AND SEND THEM DOWN THE LINE. This |
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Posted: 8/24/2022 1:38:00 AM EDT
[#12]
Looks like the Beretta ARX and CZ Bren S1 had a child with crooked front. The Galil was much better looking relatively.
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Posted: 8/25/2022 10:53:52 PM EDT
[#13]
I want one. I'm not sure why, but I do.
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Posted: 11/17/2022 1:20:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Any updates on this?
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Posted: 11/20/2022 6:51:17 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any updates on this? No. |
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Posted: 11/20/2022 2:32:29 PM EDT
[#16]
That gas block access hole could have been made the shape of Texas, just saying.
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Posted: 11/20/2022 8:30:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is a very valid question. I don't understand, even an old tech HBAR AR carbine is fit and trim compared to some of these designs. What is the draw? Use in video games? Whether or not it is true for this rifle, video games seem to be an incredibly effective tool for selling certain guns to the masses, just as the fake news outlets are successful at selling their narratives to the masses. |
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Posted: 11/21/2022 7:48:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm still pissed at myself for not grabbing a Beretta when they were $800  You should be able to get used ones close to that in a few months. |
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Posted: 11/21/2022 7:55:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want one. I'm not sure why, but I do. Same. IWI builds good guns but man it’s hard to beat the Bren 2 carbine. I’m guessing this rifle will be built like a tank but 1/2 a lb heavier. But that’s just a guess. |
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Posted: 11/26/2022 1:41:18 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same. IWI builds good guns but man it’s hard to beat the Bren 2 carbine. I’m guessing this rifle will be built like a tank but 1/2 a lb heavier. But that’s just a guess. 
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Posted: 11/26/2022 2:27:42 AM EDT
[#21]
I see it’s on RifleGears site with a UPC. Does this mean anything at all?
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Posted: 11/26/2022 10:03:04 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see it’s on RifleGears site with a UPC. Does this mean anything at all? I don't want to get super hyped here, but RifleGear also shows a price of $1,656. If that is going to be the true price then this thing is going to be very competitive and IWI's jump into the AR-18 market is going to be very successful. One thing that has always made me a huge IWI fan is they make guns that match the quality and durability of HK and FN but with with price tags that aren't ridiculous. Plugging the UPC into gun.deals it also shows some other websites that have the Carmel and list it correctly. Most of them have the exact same specs between each site which makes me wonder if they're pulling the info from a distributor. Looks like it is definitely coming very soon. I'd expect an announcement from IWI at SHOT Show, if not maybe sooner. In the past they usually announce stuff at SHOT then it comes out late Spring/early Summer. With the UPCs being up already on multiple sites it makes me wonder if they won't do a sudden drop with the announcement like Colt did with the Python. But who knows. Either way it looks like it is coming. I was going to get an 11" Bren 2, but if the Carmel is coming soon I may wait for it instead. |
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Posted: 11/26/2022 10:29:49 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't want to get super hyped here, but RifleGear also shows a price of $1,656. If that is going to be the true price then this thing is going to be very competitive and IWI's jump into the AR-18 market is going to be very successful. One thing that has always made me a huge IWI fan is they make guns that match the quality and durability of HK and FN but with with price tags that aren't ridiculous. Plugging the UPC into gun.deals it also shows some other websites that have the Carmel and list it correctly. Most of them have the exact same specs between each site which makes me wonder if they're pulling the info from a distributor. Looks like it is definitely coming very soon. I'd expect an announcement from IWI at SHOT Show, if not maybe sooner. In the past they usually announce stuff at SHOT then it comes out late Spring/early Summer. With the UPCs being up already on multiple sites it makes me wonder if they won't do a sudden drop with the announcement like Colt did with the Python. But who knows. Either way it looks like it is coming. I was going to get an 11" Bren 2, but if the Carmel is coming soon I may wait for it instead. Can't wait to see it when you get it my friend! |
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Posted: 11/26/2022 10:54:13 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can't wait to see it when you get it my friend! And then subsequently trade it to you for something else 6 months after I get it 
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Posted: 11/26/2022 12:08:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And then subsequently trade it to you for something else 6 months after I get it That is all good by me @Zeebz |
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Posted: 11/26/2022 12:41:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Make that three. I refuse to buy any more HK weapons just because my checking account taps out after I'm done paying for it (Say nothing of my better half when I hint at how much I paid for it). Are you paying attention IWI? Shit, make that 4. IWI's quality is just as good as FN and HK, and they release their guns at reasonable prices. If FN made the Tavor it'd be a $2,500 rifle at least. I LOVE the SCAR, but they are not worth over $3,000. I felt that in early 2017 when the SCAR 17S was going for like $2,600 street price and MSRP was like $3,100 or so that was a perfect price point to settle on. But every year FN slightly raises the MSRP and now with the NRCH model it's almost $4,000 for a 17S. HK is what it is. We'll probably never see the 433. They threw us a bone with the SP5 but made it stupid overpriced, as is the MR556. Me and my buddy were talking and agreed that the only real issue with IWI is they seem to favor reliability over accuracy. Their platforms are built like tanks, and uber reliable. But most of them are middle of the road in terms of accuracy. I won't fault them too much for it because their guns are to hell and back reliable. And it isn't like they can't make accurate guns... the Galil ACE is probably the most accurate gun on the AK platform. They have their DAN 338 Lapua bolt rifle which has a sub-MOA guarantee and by all reports is supposed to be stupid accurate. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 8:18:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shit, make that 4. IWI's quality is just as good as FN and HK, and they release their guns at reasonable prices. If FN made the Tavor it'd be a $2,500 rifle at least. I LOVE the SCAR, but they are not worth over $3,000. I felt that in early 2017 when the SCAR 17S was going for like $2,600 street price and MSRP was like $3,100 or so that was a perfect price point to settle on. But every year FN slightly raises the MSRP and now with the NRCH model it's almost $4,000 for a 17S. HK is what it is. We'll probably never see the 433. They threw us a bone with the SP5 but made it stupid overpriced, as is the MR556. Me and my buddy were talking and agreed that the only real issue with IWI is they seem to favor reliability over accuracy. Their platforms are built like tanks, and uber reliable. But most of them are middle of the road in terms of accuracy. I won't fault them too much for it because their guns are to hell and back reliable. And it isn't like they can't make accurate guns... the Galil ACE is probably the most accurate gun on the AK platform. They have their DAN 338 Lapua bolt rifle which has a sub-MOA guarantee and by all reports is supposed to be stupid accurate. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Make that three. I refuse to buy any more HK weapons just because my checking account taps out after I'm done paying for it (Say nothing of my better half when I hint at how much I paid for it). Are you paying attention IWI? Shit, make that 4. IWI's quality is just as good as FN and HK, and they release their guns at reasonable prices. If FN made the Tavor it'd be a $2,500 rifle at least. I LOVE the SCAR, but they are not worth over $3,000. I felt that in early 2017 when the SCAR 17S was going for like $2,600 street price and MSRP was like $3,100 or so that was a perfect price point to settle on. But every year FN slightly raises the MSRP and now with the NRCH model it's almost $4,000 for a 17S. HK is what it is. We'll probably never see the 433. They threw us a bone with the SP5 but made it stupid overpriced, as is the MR556. Me and my buddy were talking and agreed that the only real issue with IWI is they seem to favor reliability over accuracy. Their platforms are built like tanks, and uber reliable. But most of them are middle of the road in terms of accuracy. I won't fault them too much for it because their guns are to hell and back reliable. And it isn't like they can't make accurate guns... the Galil ACE is probably the most accurate gun on the AK platform. They have their DAN 338 Lapua bolt rifle which has a sub-MOA guarantee and by all reports is supposed to be stupid accurate. |
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Posted: 11/27/2022 9:20:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shit, make that 4. IWI's quality is just as good as FN and HK, and they release their guns at reasonable prices. If FN made the Tavor it'd be a $2,500 rifle at least. I LOVE the SCAR, but they are not worth over $3,000. I felt that in early 2017 when the SCAR 17S was going for like $2,600 street price and MSRP was like $3,100 or so that was a perfect price point to settle on. But every year FN slightly raises the MSRP and now with the NRCH model it's almost $4,000 for a 17S. HK is what it is. We'll probably never see the 433. They threw us a bone with the SP5 but made it stupid overpriced, as is the MR556. Me and my buddy were talking and agreed that the only real issue with IWI is they seem to favor reliability over accuracy. Their platforms are built like tanks, and uber reliable. But most of them are middle of the road in terms of accuracy. I won't fault them too much for it because their guns are to hell and back reliable. And it isn't like they can't make accurate guns... the Galil ACE is probably the most accurate gun on the AK platform. They have their DAN 338 Lapua bolt rifle which has a sub-MOA guarantee and by all reports is supposed to be stupid accurate. Absolutely agree with you about HK, the MR556 doesn't even have a chrome lined barrel 
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Posted: 12/4/2022 10:48:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... the Galil ACE is probably the most accurate gun on the AK platform. SIG 550 disagrees, but otherwise your assessment is spot on. |
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Posted: 12/5/2022 12:21:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SIG 550 disagrees, but otherwise your assessment is spot on. I concur. The SIG 55x series is the most refined AK. |
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Posted: 12/6/2022 7:42:23 AM EDT
[#31]
 I'm going to trim some fat off of that MLok HG if this is how it's sold. ETA, I just recently noticed that the barrel QD takedown cam lever appears to be missing from the upper in the MLok version. What gives? |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 12:27:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuump
https://iwi.us/product/csr16/ It's official now.  Attached File Attached File Attached FileThey went with the long-dong handguard and yet another dumb 10-degree grip angle. Fixable but I'm so tired of that being a "thing" in the industry now. MSRP at $1800. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 1:25:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Finally! Been waiting for this for a while.
Handguard is mediocre looking but hopefully some aftermarket options will come out. $1,800 MSRP, too. IWI continues to kill it with their pricing (take notes FN and HK). An AR-180 type rifle for under possibly $1,500 street price. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 2:55:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Yeah that ugly ass HG ruins it and adds 1 lbs to front end. I’ve waited years for this gun now seeing it Americanized pretty much killed it for me. Looks like it doesn’t have the QD barrel anymore either.
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Posted: 1/17/2023 4:51:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Meh not feeling it. Pass
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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:26:25 PM EDT
[#36]
IT OFFICIAL!
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Posted: 1/17/2023 9:25:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Yeah that ugly ass HG ruins it and adds 1 lbs to front end. I’ve waited years for this gun now seeing it Americanized pretty much killed it for me. Looks like it doesn’t have the QD barrel anymore either. Quoted: Meh not feeling it. Pass Yeah, I know, but I can't fucking help myself! I'll take it!!! |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 9:36:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Agreed. I'll take it.
Plus it hasn't even been confirmed the QD barrel isn't there, but there are people acting like it's not there based on pictures. The lever could be underneath the handguard. The area where the QD barrel removal lever sits is inclined and shorter on the military version. On the US version that area of the handguard sticks out more so like I said, it could simply just be covered by the handguard and they didn't cut the slot into to see it. It could also not be there, but I'll wait on official word from IWI. I'm not trying to be an ass or start an argument, but we need to see what IWI or someone who can get their hands on the gun says before we make assumptions just because something isn't sticking out blatantly in your face from the photos. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 12:33:33 AM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 1/18/2023 12:49:32 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryThank you for confirming. That puts that to rest! |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 1:08:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryThat’s good news at least. The said they probably won’t offer the OG handguard |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 1:51:11 AM EDT
[#42]
I’m liking what I am seeing. The B5 Systems grip is my favorite AR grip so nice to see them equipping it with that. I’ll be curious about the factory trigger too. Overall it looks very nice. Looking forward to some reviews at some point. Happy I decided not to get a Galil Ace Gen 2 and wait to see if IWI announced anything at Shot. $1800 MSRP is very competitive.
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Posted: 1/18/2023 2:50:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Up close pics…..
      The military version for contrast    |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 7:07:56 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plus it hasn't even been confirmed the QD barrel isn't there, but there are people acting like it's not there based on pictures. The lever could be underneath the handguard. The area where the QD barrel removal lever sits is inclined and shorter on the military version. On the US version that area of the handguard sticks out more so like I said, it could simply just be covered by the handguard and they didn't cut the slot into to see it. The location on the mil version, which extends further to the rear than the widened portion of the cocking slot, has this area filled in on the civilian version. So, it doesn’t look like it could be under the handguard, unless they also moved it forward which seems unlikely. They went from a contoured comfortable looking HG to a rectangular uncomfortable looking extrusion and felt obligated to stick an AR grip on it too. What a turn off to the entire platform. I’m not sure they could have screwed this rifle up more if they tried. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 7:25:25 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The location on the mil version, which extends further to the rear than the widened portion of the cocking slot, has this area filled in on the civilian version. So, it doesn’t look like it could be under the handguard, unless they also moved it forward which seems unlikely. They went from a contoured comfortable looking HG to a rectangular uncomfortable looking extrusion and felt obligated to stick an AR grip on it too. What a turn off to the entire platform. I’m not sure they could have screwed this rifle up more if they tried. I'm lost as to where the release mechanism was moved to. There's nothing visible on either side in pics, so removing the HG is going to be the only way to locate it. The AR style grip us no doubt a choice to appeal to the desire for grip customization by leveraging the available aftermarket support in that segment. Kind of hard to fault that decision. MLok HG is fine, but I'm not a fan of the length, which I consider excessive due to covering the gas block. They did the same to the Galil series & it adds weight & ruins the aesthetic. Aftermarket could step up to offer a remedy; you could also cut it back yourself if you have the skill & access to tooling. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 9:17:58 AM EDT
[#46]
 Picture is failing to be imbedded, fuck it. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 2:37:21 PM EDT
[#47]
Friend of mine is there. He says the rifle is huge, and not very lightweight. I’ll reserve judgment until I see one, but it does look big.
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Posted: 1/18/2023 3:37:04 PM EDT
[#48]
The handguard is unnecessarily large. That adds useless weight, not only that but it looks very cumbersome.
The original polymer handguard as seen on the military version is undoubtedly lighter, plus it looks very comfortable to grip. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 3:51:07 PM EDT
[#49]
Everyone let IWI know you want the polymer handguard! Their email is [email protected] maybe we can get some without the 2x4 hand guard
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Posted: 1/18/2023 3:58:02 PM EDT
[#50]
They’ll probably do a limited run of the mil version. I’m buying two this year and chopping one to 12.5 or 13”.
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