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Posted: 10/6/2007 3:55:26 PM EDT
[#1]
If it only had a FAL's charging handle the AR would be perfect.
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Posted: 10/6/2007 4:14:53 PM EDT
[#2]
I would have to say not really.
The AR15 has been around a long time. I find the A1s, A2's, A4's and M4's all comfortable. I may be biased since I have been trained on the M16, but I have held the XCR, SIG 556 and Aug and they are great rifles but I feel most comfortable around the AR. I have the FS2000 and that is a cool weapon. It is a bit bulky but it is light weight. If you look at the Sig 556 and the XCR they have some AR like features. I believe that the military will be hard pressed to find a good replacement. Maybe the FNSCAR may replace it? Who knows? Max |
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Posted: 10/6/2007 4:54:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Much bigger fan of the AUG.
Matt |
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Posted: 10/6/2007 4:56:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Bro, if you're going to say that you have to tell us why. After all... AUGs aren't easy to use. |
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Posted: 10/6/2007 4:57:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Fal
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Posted: 10/6/2007 5:00:03 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm gonna bet the Masada beats the AR.
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Posted: 10/6/2007 5:02:08 PM EDT
[#7]
I've never used either in anger, so take my opinion for what it's worth. Matt |
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Posted: 10/6/2007 5:03:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Although in my opinion not as good of an overall weapon as the AR-15, I think the FS2000 is ergonomically a great weapon. I don't own one, but I use them a few times at the range. Was very pleasant to hold and shoot.
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Posted: 10/6/2007 5:05:40 PM EDT
[#9]
But you can't butt stroke someone with an AUG as good as you can an AR
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Posted: 10/6/2007 5:07:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Amen, to that one. I butt stocked a friend of mine who got so drunk he started breaking beer bottles against my table. The A2 stock is rock solid, I landed a hell of a hit. Knocked the fucker out for the night. |
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Posted: 10/6/2007 5:07:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Nah, you just take the barrel off and beat them with it. Matt |
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Posted: 10/6/2007 5:08:53 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 10/6/2007 5:12:19 PM EDT
[#13]
 Beretta Storm 
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Posted: 10/6/2007 5:13:55 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 10/6/2007 5:20:12 PM EDT
[#15]
My biggest problem with the AUG its a BITCH for a left handed shooter... |
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Posted: 10/6/2007 5:22:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Why? There's a left-hand bolt option. Matt |
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Posted: 10/6/2007 5:32:05 PM EDT
[#17]
I'm going with FAL. I don't think that "drop free" mags are exactly all that cracked up, especially when you've been in the dirt and it doesn't drop free
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Posted: 10/6/2007 6:27:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Best ergo's is all personal taste and saying that I'd gladly take a SIG 551 over an AR any day.
It's not that an AR doesn't have great ergos to me, the 551/550's are just better. Take into account I don't care about drop free mags either, prefer the ambi paddle release since I can release and change to a new mag with my right hand faster and easier, love the rightside charging handle, position of the safety, overall balance, steel design and feel, and I'm a lefty. The shitty thing is after drooling over 551's of other people I've meet with them and always wanting my own not being able to afford one for what they cost on the current market, SIG Arms now SIG Sauer ended up putting out that piece of shit 556 and left me still wanting a real 551. SIG SAUER--can kiss my hairy ass. 
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Posted: 10/6/2007 6:53:37 PM EDT
[#19]
The Sig 556 is actually a big step forward from the 55X series. I'm not sure if it has better ergonomics than an AR though. It does go bang when the trigger is pulled which ranks higher than ergos for me personally.
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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:00:39 PM EDT
[#20]
The XCR is AR-like. Similar mag release, trigger, and the same magazine and grip. The bolt release is ambidextrous though and faster to access without changing your grip. Barrel swaps out in less than a minute and the charging handle is similar to the FAL. The only drawback Ive noticed on the XCR is the weight. Its a little porky.
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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:08:53 PM EDT
[#21]
That left a little to my imagination as is.  The only thing I like about the 556 that I see as a plus is taking AR mags. There a more prevalent used mag in the US and have better cost and options for them too. An LOP adjustable stock is nice, but not how they did it to me and the 550 stocks are still a very good fit for me and very nice and comfortable stock too. I realize that in using AR mag they'd more than likely need to make a more AR release, but I still prefer the ambi paddle. 
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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:14:02 PM EDT
[#22]
As a left handed shooter I don't find the AR ergonomics to be all that great.
Most ergonomic rifle I've found is the M14. Ambi safety, left-friendly charging handle, and I like like the general "feel" of the rifle. |
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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:21:12 PM EDT
[#23]
+1 I find the M14 to be pretty much top of the hill and in sights and caliber too. In just about anything but CQB I'd take it first before all else. The SIG 550/551's do have some similarities with the charging handle and mag release which is why I compared them to the AR, but I'd still prefer a M14 for just about everything myself.  |
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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:22:14 PM EDT
[#24]
i have yet to find anything as ergonomic. and i've shot alot of different "assault weapons" from around the world.
i still haven't found anything i like as much as an AR15/M16 |
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Posted: 10/6/2007 7:49:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Well, it is a question that has no right answer, as what fits me, may not fit you, etc.
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Posted: 10/6/2007 8:34:29 PM EDT
[#26]
What scares me, Hemi, is that you're probably telling the truth! ETA: I own page 2! 
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Posted: 10/6/2007 8:36:17 PM EDT
[#27]
He woke up with the outline of my butt stock still on his face. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 3:59:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Trust me brother you can lay the hurt down with the AUG. I'm not sure about the new American versions, but the Steyr Mannlicher AUG polymer is pretty damn solid. I sure as hell wouldn't want to get hit by one. If you guys ever get the chance feel the polymer on an FS2000 and compare it to the AUG you'll even be able to feel the difference in strength. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 4:00:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Hello little school girl; I'm a little school boy too.  Great picture. |
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Posted: 10/7/2007 4:35:14 PM EDT
[#30]
I've always loved the FAL as a battle rifle. Although I've never had to endure combat I would feel better knowing that if I ever ran out of boolits I could beat a man to death with and empty FAL... The AR does't make a very good club |
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Posted: 10/8/2007 5:57:02 AM EDT
[#31]
Ehhh...ergonomics are highly subjective.
In addition, what one finds as "ergonomic" is highly influenced by what they're "used to", not necessarily what someone tells them is "ergonomically correct". |
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Posted: 10/8/2007 6:10:39 AM EDT
[#32]
While shes hot, the storm is easly one of the LEAST ergonomic rifles I've ever held. Definitely loses out to the AR. |
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Posted: 10/8/2007 8:28:19 AM EDT
[#33]
The answer to the thread is simply...
No. |
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Posted: 10/8/2007 8:41:06 AM EDT
[#34]
Depends on the person/mission or the individuals needs.
For what was needed of it, it's done a great job IMHO. |
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Posted: 10/8/2007 8:45:35 AM EDT
[#35]
Despite its problems the L85A1 (SA80) is very easy to shoot/handle.
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Posted: 10/8/2007 11:43:48 AM EDT
[#36]
And looks totally badass, too.
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Posted: 10/8/2007 1:47:56 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm a righty, and I find the M14 to be very nice as well. Karl |
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Posted: 10/9/2007 9:32:30 PM EDT
[#38]
Not true, I own 3. I know. They are simply different. People aren't use to bullpup usage so they THINK they aren't easy to use. For a conventional styled rifle the AR15 owns all in terms of ergo's S.O. |
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Posted: 10/9/2007 9:34:23 PM EDT
[#39]
No, but you can remove the barrel and use it as a night stick/baton... Give'm a good barrel whipping.S.O. |
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Posted: 10/9/2007 9:38:50 PM EDT
[#40]
The position of the charging handle on the AUG is extremely bad for a left handed shooter. Right handed, it's perfect. |
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Posted: 10/9/2007 11:34:39 PM EDT
[#41]
The most ergonimically friendly rifle I can think of would have been the Stoner 63A in the rifle or carbine format.
It had a centrally mounted charging handle like a 1928 thompson M14 style safety Paddle, centrally mounted mag release like an M14, also. Very easy for either a left or rightie to use. Vid of Stoner 63A Rifle ( others also ) |
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Posted: 10/9/2007 11:56:22 PM EDT
[#42]
God bless Eugene Stoner and his protege Reed Knight.
I have always loved the ergonomics of the AR15! Sorry lefties! From an engineering standpoint it is such a simple design. (Amazing use of modern materials in the 60's) It is one parralel line from the barrel through to the stock. How all of the controls ended up where they are is amazing. I concur that the charging handle position is a minor weak point and the foward assist is a useless bandaid which was added in the XM16A1E1 era of improvements. Besides, If I ever get an NFA weapon (after i leave NY) it will be a M16. You are never likely to see any of the other aforementioned rifles in transferable full auto and some may never be seen in semi (mosada) except in dealer samples maybe. But i dont see the AR15 being outdated anytime soon until we have some crazy shoulder fired railguns or something that doesnt use conventional ammo. I think that conventional fireams have come almost as far as we can develop them. ALMOST. |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 12:05:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Also... mag changes are sooo easy and fast. unlike the awkward mag change for bullpup's and ak's
Though i may be doing an ARES piston conversion on one of mine. That is also cool cause you can custiomize the crap out of an AR. |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 12:38:32 AM EDT
[#44]
He wasnt the party's banjo player was he? |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 6:42:18 AM EDT
[#45]
Hi everybody
I am a new member..first time posting ergonomics are very personal and change with the time spent training with one weapon. My personal preference is the AUG but I am alos biased....I used to carry and train soldiers to use tehm for 14 years in its country of origin....Austria. Oh by the way....you can but stroke with the AUG....trust me I was a close combat instructor |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 7:23:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Nastty bubba-fudd stock... M-14 and 'ergonomic' just don't fit.... |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 7:25:53 PM EDT
[#47]
You missed: Low magazine capacity requires excessive reloading.... Fires a round that is absurdly more powerful than required, resulting in a huge amount of felt-recoil (which is an ergonomic concern) for no real benefit.... |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 7:30:13 PM EDT
[#48]
My issue with the 'others':
1) Rock-in magazines & paddle-release: Too much fumbling around, and you need the use of your mag-reloading hand to drop the mag, rather than dropping it with your firing hand while reaching for a new one.... With the AR you don't have to hook your mag in place, you just stuff it in the hole and give it a slap... 2) right-side charging handles: You have to take the weapon down, turn it sideways, reach over and pull the damn handle.... The Ar's T-handle is just in a better place... 3) And who the hell would rather have a goose-neck stock than a modern in-line stock and pistol grip? Not a good design.... |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 7:48:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Hate the charging handle on the AR. I like the G3 except for the magazine rock in.
Other than that, the AR is pretty good. |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 11:08:40 PM EDT
[#50]
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