Quoted: I see a lot of votes for Glocks and 1911s, but I have a question for the 1911 people: what does the 1911 have that the Mk 23 doesn't?

Over 90 years of proven reliability!

How about this one?

FN's Five-seveN® Pistol

The First of a New Generation

In 1935, the FN-made Browning Hi Power was revolutionary. The market quickly adopted this high-capacity 9mm pistol accordingly, and it has since been fielded by over 100 countries.
FN's newest contribution the handgun's evolution is named the Five-seveN®. This 20-round pistol fires a 5.7mm bullet that will defeat most body armor in military service around the world today. Essentially, the Five-seveN® represents a quantum leap forward in the handgun's suitablity for close engagements by delivering the type of performance that was previously confined to rifles or carbines. Elements of this performance include:

High magazine capacity: The Five-seveN® comes standard with 20-round magazine.

High stopping power: The Five-seveN® fires the 5.7x28mm SS190 Ball round which reliably penetrates Kevlar helmets and vests as well as CRISAT protection.

High hit probability: The Five-seveN's® extremely low recoil impulse results in virtually no muzzle climb, thereby facilitating fast and controllable follow-up shots.

Yet, the Five-seveN® is:

Light and ergonomic: Weighing 30% less than most 9mm pistols, the smoothly-contoured Five-seveN® is comfortable to carry and quick to deploy.

Fully safe: Due to its double-action firing mechanism, the Five-seveN® offers no inherent risk of accidental discharge during transportation. Furthermore, all of its safety devices are automatically reengaged following each firing cycle.

The Five-seveN® fires the SS190 5.7x28mm ball round. This projectile will perforate any individual protection on today's battlefield including the PASGT kevlar helmet, 48 layers of kevlar body armor and the CRISAT target (titanium and kevlar). The SS190's conventional design allows it to be manufactured on existing production lines, and its lead-free composition eliminates range contamination.



Five-seveN® Technical Specifications

Caliber 5.7x28mm
Operating principle Delayed blowback
Trigger mechanism Double action only
Magazine capacity 20 rounds
Overall length 208mm (8.2 in)
Barrel length 122.5mm (4.82 in)
Weight, unloaded 618g (1.36 lb)
Weight, loaded 744g (1.64 lb)

PVFD304, that's a nice choice, I think. Do you own a 5-7? If so, are there any reliabilty issues? Also, I have a friend whos looking at 5-7s, whats a good price? Sorry if this is a lil off topic.

HK USP .40 V1 Full Size
~or~
Colt 1911 Government .45

Quoted: How about this one? FN's Five-seveN® Pistol

I totally forgot about this one. This would be my FIRST choice as well....

I wish I could own one... Wasn't this and its counterpart, the submachine gun, designed for law enforcement only (i.e. the 5.7 kevlar piercing round and high capacity magazines). What agencies carry these?

Quoted: Beretta 92FS. Eats everything, and works wet, dry or muddy. Av.

Same same.

Quoted: PVFD304, that's a nice choice, I think. Do you own a 5-7? .

Only when I work for Rainbow 6.

Quoted: Quoted: I see a lot of votes for Glocks and 1911s, but I have a question for the 1911 people: what does the 1911 have that the Mk 23 doesn't? Over 90 years of proven reliability!

Supershooter you beat me to it....

The Mk 23 may be around 90 years from now but then it will be around half as long as the 1911.

There are no unknowns with the 1911 imho, but who knows about the 23.

You asked about a combat pistol, the 1911 and the Hi Power have the most proven experience in the free world.

Steel on steel, a proven combination, I don't want any alloys or plastic if I am going into a combat situation.

That said for a CCW the above doesn't apply, as I am not carrying for an extended combat situation.

Thats a good point, 90 yrs of reliability. Thats good criteria for selection, I think. I don't know about five seven reliability, ive never shot one.

I sorta feel stupid, but what does imho mean?

A Wilson KZ-45 Tactical Carry Pistol (TCP) would suit me just fine!  A ten round mag of .45 ACP and guaranteed 1.5" at 25 yards, why use 9mm or 40 S&W when you can carry a cannon like this one!

A steel Para frame with a Les Baer top end in .45acp.

ARH

I leave the house with a Glock 20.

10mm  
    135gr JHP 1450 fps @ 630 ft lbs
    165gr JHP 1350 fps @ 668 ft lbs
    200gr JHP 1250 fps @ 694 ft lbs

15+1 Hi-Caps

w/ Insight M3 Tactical light

w/ Night-sights

w/ Pachmyer Glock-sock

My brother & I both have Glock 20's.  I have put several thousand rounds down range with NO malfunctions at all.

It is a standard sized service pistol.

I can hit a man sized target at over 100 meters.

It eats any 10mm or .40 S$W ammo I feed it.

It is more accurate than I am.

Not to mention, the 10mm hits a target with more energy from 100 meters away than a .45 ACP does at the muzzle.  " Beat that with a Stick..."


It works wet, cold, hot, dry, muddy, clean, and / or dirty!!

If I start with only a pistol...  I will have a better (read, Rifle / Carbine / SMG) weapon by the end of the game...

... I'll just take yours after your dead.

Real Men & Women carry a 10mm.

Quoted: I sorta feel stupid, but what does imho mean?

In My Humble Opinion

Av.

Smith & Wesson .44 mag Mountain Gun.  500 rounds of CorBon165 grain,  a perfect choice for me.

From what I have heard Troy is pretty much right about the 5-7 in the fact that you might as well use a .22LR. You can't help but to think to the famous line: "if I found out someone shot me with a .22, I'd be pissed!" Sorry, but I forgot who said that one.

Quoted: You can't help but to think to the famous line: "if I found out someone shot me with a .22, I'd be pissed!" Sorry, but I forgot who said that one.

In my line of work I've met several people who might feel the same way...

If they weren't dead.

The .22LR is much more dangerous than people give it credit for. But I wouldn't want to stake my life on one. After 14 years of Police work I have to say that more than half of the homicides I've seen where a gun was used were committed with a .22. Maybe because they are cheap(thus common), maybe because they are dangerous. I really can't say but the stats speak for themselves.

Back to the topic. My choice is the M1911/M1911A1. It's been proven through five wars and countless smaller engagements "in every clime and place" and is still in use, albeit on a much smaller scale. Newer isn't necessarily better. When your talking about combat, real down and dirty combat simple and functional is the way to go.

HK............HK............HK.............HK


USP .40 Compact

There are some good things about the .22LR, for example, obviously a header would kill them (more than likely). But, one lesser thought of thing is that it *could* bounce off of ribs instead of shattering them like a centerfire rifle. I might be FOS, just a thought.

point #1. personally I would love to try out a 5-7 and see what they can do. might be interesiting to see what they can do ballistically. unfortunately the only two guns that fire them either only come in hi-cap or are also full auto. because of this batf (big ass holes with tabacco and fire arms) has declare that the 5x7 is not a "sporting round" and there for illegal to us civilian peons.

point#2. if I had my choice it would be a berreta 96 full size. because I love the dependability and design of the 92f with the added fire power of a .40 s&w. over 9mm.

point#3. I don't get why poeple are always so concerned with what the other guy is carrying so they can steal ammo off the dead. if they are dead and you have access to thier ammo would you not also more than likely have access to their weapon. who care if you carrying a 40. and there carrying a 9mm. if you run out just take their weapon.

same thing with the perfect shtf gun. although mine is a preban m4gory and just so happens to take m16 mags and clips, it still doesn't matter. even if I had uncle billy bobs double barrel, I would have me a m16 real soon right after the first blue helment that passed my way.


no flames intended by the way just the way I see things. feel free to disagree

My guess is I'll be facing a well-equipped enemy (and I'm not allowed to bring my Mossberg), so I must chose something to resist full-load infantry.

I want reliability, good accuracy in MOUT conditions (no way I'll fight riflemen out in the open), and someting that can shoot through vests/helmets.  Only one real choice for this poor student -

The CZ-52!

7.62x25 for puncturing my foe, I like its ergonomics, built commie tough, and I can beat my enemies to death with it if I run out of ammo...


CZ-52, the Five-seveN® for the People!

Hummmmm, now I have read all the posts I will put mine down...I own a CZ-52, although it is powerful, it can break down...I have shot enough glocks and HK's to say they are nice and function well under most all conditions...I have a Witness, don't laugh, it is high cap in .45 light weight and accurate but .45 make for shorter shots...I have several 1911's and variations, proven reliabilty but not enough range...a .22, I don't think so!...so now to my choice, something that is totally reliable, the basic design has been proven for over 50 years, it has power enough to shoot a man and kill him at 100 yards, not to mention it is accurate enough to hit a 2ltr. bottle at said range...I choose my 6" blue Colt Python.  That's right gentlemen and ladies, a revolver.  In this world of hightech autos that can jam, bust a spring, crack a slide or whatever it is safe to assume that the good old Python will survive.  And yes I have a couple of these in various lengths as well.  If range were not a factor I would prefer the 4" but you have to expect the unexpected!

That is just my $.02,
Joe

Ok,  A revolver guy....

I can see it now,  A "fire team" sized detachment is deployed to "search" his apartment building, or "patrol" his city block...  Mr. Sixgun has to engage the enemy with a revolver.  Sounds tuff for any one to do by them self, but why handy-cap your chances with a firearm that has limited "in-gun" ammo capsity?  Not to mention, difficult & time consumming reloads.

Ya, if I could "see" a 2L. bottle at 100 yards then I could hit the dam thing to.  My daily carry Glock 20 doesn't have a 4X scope mounted on it.  That is why I am in the market for an M4-gery.

I have an old 7.7 JAP. WWII rifle. I like it.  But it cost me over $2 every time I squeeze the trigger.  If it was all I had, I wouldn't think twice about using it if the "SHTF".  The problem with the rifle is:

 1) Ammo is rare
 2) Ammo is costly
 3) Gun is very heavy !!
 4) Gun is very long
 5) Non-detachable magazine
 6) Limited ammo capsity
 7) Time consumming reloads

Why would I handy-cap my chances with a 60 to 70  year old rifle?

My buddy has a series 70 Colt Gold Cup.  He likes it.  It shoots tighter groups than he can.  It is a 100 year old design.  That in and of its self doesn't mean crap.  I feel the design is a great one.  I just think it is lacking in magazine capsity.  The old "spay-n-pray" arguement is bullsh*t.  

More ammo in the gun is better!  
Faster reloads are better!
 
Any one who argues any different, hasn't had to use a firearm to defend their own life.

Ya, a revolver will work in a tight spot, and so will the 70 year old 7.7 JAP.

But why handy-cap your chances?

Has anyone mentioned the GE MiniGun?

1911

GLOCK 22C night sights with M6 light/laseer
proven cartridge high capacity common Law enforcement round=ammo availibility loaded with 155 Speer Gold Dots

SIG P220!!!!!

Ok Wolf_Spyder, so you want to dog on a six-gun man huh...well, at least my gun won't melt into a blob of nothing when faced with intense heat!  If you would ever learn to use speedloaders you would soon find out that it is not as slow as you thought.  Also if I am shooting them at 100yards they are not going to have a chance to get in my house, furthermore, if I were in my house I would have a lot more than a handgun!

Not to mention that my "sixgun" is probably twice as accurate as your glock as well as having the power to penetrate walls, humans, cars, etc...

The ability to use .38 ammo is an added benefit because a lot of cops still use it as a back up.

If you do not want to limit it to pistol rounds why not have the Para Ord. .223 pistol with a laser sight on it so you could point and shoot.  You would also kill the enemy with the muzzle flash and shock wave!

Point being, revolvers are more reliable with less chance of malfunction and breakage than autos, this has been proven time and again.

Also, learn how to spell.  Joe

I can see where our Mr. Sixgun is coming from. Speedloaders would make it pretty fast, and you have reliablity, accuracy, etc. like he said.

Quoted: Point being, revolvers are more reliable with less chance of malfunction and breakage than autos, this has been proven time and again. Joe

I'm not taking sides here. I love my revolvers as much as the next guy, I am somewhat of a dinosaur. I agree on the reliability factor but when a revolver malfunctions(it's happened to me) your basically f*cked. When a semi auto malfunctions(that has happened to me as well) you have a very good chance of correcting the stoppage without a lot of trouble. Then again a semi auto can malfunction in many more ways than a revolver can. I have often said that if my Dept. would have allowed me to carry a .357 magnum load I would have kept it in favor of our current .45 ACP semi auto based solely on the reliability factor. And I am queer for the .45 ACP. especially after seeing several times what it will do to the human body. All things being equal there simply is no substitute for a big hole.

Quoted: HK............HK............HK.............HK USP .40 Compact

Ooh man, I cannot go with ya here. I carry a USP .40 Compact regularly, but I would not choose it for this scenario. The barrel is too short for a good offensive weapon. While it is more than adequate for self defense, and is undoubtedly servicable at longer ranges, it is far from ideal.

I would go with the Mk23 SOCOM, due to it's extreme accuracy, unreal reliability, and it's higher than most effectiveness in pistol whipping stiuations. It is a bohemoth, that shoots big boolits, where you aim.

In a world of compromise, some don't.

Beretta Elite II.  It eats anything, accurate, reliable and there are plenty of 15rders to be had.  9mm ammo is cheap and easy to find (mags also) on a battle field littered with dead bodies.  Elite II and Bushy are my weapons of choice.  Yes, I'm retired Army and am a little partial to what I've trained with.

Glock. I have put my Glock 21 to some hellish paces and abuses. I had never encountered any problems with it.

Quoted:

Ok Wolf_Spyder, so you want to dog on a six-gun man huh...
no...well ya,  I just like the 10mm Glock better.


well, at least my gun won't melt into a blob of nothing when faced with intense heat! Gee, how hot are we talking here?  I am not sure how hot, but the Glock is good to go at very high temps.  They advertise by "baking" them...


If you would ever learn to use speedloaders you would soon find out that it is not as slow as you thought. Ya, thats fine, I reload with 15 rounds each time.  You with 6.  Autos reload faster on average.


Also if I am shooting them at 100yards they are not going to have a chance to get in my house, furthermore, if I were in my house I would have a lot more than a handgun! Same here


Not to mention that my "sixgun" is probably twice as accurate as your glock as well as having the power to penetrate walls, humans, cars, etc... 10mm has more versitility than the .357 Mag.  The 10mm pushes a heavier bullet faster.  It also makes a bigger hole.


The ability to use .38 ammo is an added benefit because a lot of cops still use it as a back up. More Cops use the .40 S&W, I can shoot them in my 10mm as well.


Point being, revolvers are more reliable with less chance of malfunction and breakage than autos, this has been proven time and again. Where?  I have never had a "Major" malfunction with either a revolver or a semi auto pistol.  I did have a revolver fail to "completely" go into battery, and still discharge.  The remaining hunk of lead & copper had to be removed from the forcing cone before I could "safely" continue shooting.  If a case fails to extract in an semi auto, you invert & pull open the slide. Almost always the round will drop free.  The revolver has more problems if a round fails to extract...

It is easy to pick at the weak spots of any weapon system.  But when every thing else is equal.  I will still have a Glock 20 in 10mm, that is just as reliable as your revolver in .357 Mag.

I, how ever, will have less recoil, more rounds on tap, faster reloads, & better balistics.


Also, learn how to spell. OK, You got me... I can't spell very well.  I still have a better pistol...  
Mine  
vs
Yours






{Edited to add pistol graphics & find correct spelling}

USP40C, that would hurt to be pistol whipped with a Mk23 SOCOM. Its a big f*ckin pistol and would easily knock someone out if not kill them. And, for lack of a better pistol whip anim,

Hey Wolfy at least you said "spell well" and not "spell good," half of the time when I type "spell" I really type "speel." I oughta ride the short bus...

Quoted: USP40C, that would hurt to be pistol whipped with a Mk23 SOCOM. Its a big f*ckin pistol and would easily knock someone out if not kill them. And, for lack of a better pistol whip anim,

Thank you sir, my point is made. If you turn it around and swing it like a baseball bat, you get better leverage.

my wilson combat 1911.

my wilson combat 1911.

Yeah it's almost big enough to swing like a baseball bat (exaggeration). But it's almost as big as a PDW! (H&K actually says about their PDW: "almost as small as a SOCOM pistol")

 
Just think about all the damage you could do BEFORE you run out of bullets. Then it is time!!

O.k. wolf spyder, point well taken.  Glad you found the spell check

Ok I'm surprised no one mentioned this one. I would use my trusty Olympic Arms OA 93 pistol. It does count as a pistol right?? If those 500 rds are in 5 beta c mags I'd be set. Plus If I was going up against domestic enemys I could use their 30rd mags from thier AR15's. A 30rd mag is alot better than any high cap mag for glocks or colts.

My OA 93 is very reliable, never had a jam, and its more accurate than my glock 21.

Not to mention the accurate, knock down power of the 223.

Plus my ATN Ultra Sight is set dead on. And it has a good sling for holding it across my back if I have to run like hell..LOL

either my Glock 22 or my S+W 357

One more vote for the EAA Witness. I have a steel-framed 9mm, and it's accurate, well-made, and reliable. I did have to sh*t-can the rear sight and get a Mec-Gar adjustable, as I have a tendency to pull WAY to the left. I really don't know why the "Witness" isn't more popular; it's a damn good gun. I guess it's okay, though, because a lack of popularity makes for good prices at gun shops.

I'd go with my AMT .30 Carbine. Accurate out to 200+ yards with iron sights. I've even modified a fast draw holster to carry it, as it's a little long and slow getting out of a normal holster.

I think that this would give me a good combination of distance versatility. The only drawback I can think of is the mag. capacity. Its only 7+1.