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Posted: 7/8/2020 5:15:03 AM EDT
[#1]
What is the difference...really? I have looked at the photos posted, but photos don't give a good indicator, really.
When comparing a hand selected L3 tube in filmless vs these fall-out spec tubes, is a noob like me going to pick one up and be astounded at the difference in quality? How much difference is there, really? Is this like comparing a 1000 lumen to a 1200 lumen flashlight, or a 20 lumen to a 200 lumen flashlight, so to speak? $3000 is a lot of ammo and training. vs. $5500 is a lot to spend on something I won't be pleased with. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 7:39:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the difference...really? I have looked at the photos posted, but photos don't give a good indicator, really. When comparing a hand selected L3 tube in filmless vs these fall-out spec tubes, is a noob like me going to pick one up and be astounded at the difference in quality? How much difference is there, really? Is this like comparing a 1000 lumen to a 1200 lumen flashlight, or a 20 lumen to a 200 lumen flashlight, so to speak? $3000 is a lot of ammo and training. vs. $5500 is a lot to spend on something I won't be pleased with. Yes and no. Going from no NV to a gen 3 thin filmed WP unit right off the bat is going to be mind blowing. Looking through the filmless unit next to your thin filmed is eye opening. Shows you what you've been missing. But if you don't look through or use a filmless, I don't think you'd ever feel like a thin filmed is lacking |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 8:09:25 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes and no. Going from no NV to a gen 3 thin filmed WP unit right off the bat is going to be mind blowing. Looking through the filmless unit next to your thin filmed is eye opening. Shows you what you've been missing. But if you don't look through or use a filmless, I don't think you'd ever feel like a thin filmed is lacking Will something like a mawl or ngal level the field, sans passive shooting application? Is this elbit offering still > a baller handpicked filmless pvs? Like...this is pretty horrible. I'd rather not even have NODS and just use white light and save my money if this is what I would be expecting, for example:  Elbit xlsh |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 3:33:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will something like a mawl or ngal level the field, sans passive shooting application? Is this elbit offering still > a baller handpicked filmless pvs? Like...this is pretty horrible. I'd rather not even have NODS and just use white light and save my money if this is what I would be expecting, for example:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ZYrw2J8GYHave you used NV before? Not being a smart ass btw. The lighting conditions greatly impact how well NV performs/looks. In fact, it can look much worse than this even with the best tubes. If it's bad with decent gen 3 NV than it'll be really bad with your unaided eyes. Using IR makes a world of difference. A lot of guys mainly show pics/vids in brighter conditions (Moon light, city glow, etc) because it looks the best. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 3:50:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will something like a mawl or ngal level the field, sans passive shooting application? Is this elbit offering still > a baller handpicked filmless pvs? Like...this is pretty horrible. I'd rather not even have NODS and just use white light and save my money if this is what I would be expecting, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ZYrw2J8GYThere’s really nothing wrong with that video lol. Everything looks better in person, but that image quality is far from poor quality. If you’ve never used NV before, you likely have unreasonable expectations. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 3:58:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will something like a mawl or ngal level the field, sans passive shooting application? Is this elbit offering still > a baller handpicked filmless pvs? Like...this is pretty horrible. I'd rather not even have NODS and just use white light and save my money if this is what I would be expecting, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ZYrw2J8GYThe elbit offering is almost guaranteed not going to perform the same as a handpicked filmless, but is filmless’s performance/image worth an extra grand or two. That’s a subjective choice. NV image can be considerably worse than the vid you linked. The vid actually looked ok imo. It doesnt matter if its the elbit or a filmless. Past a certain level of darkness the tube is not going to be able to see much without additional illumination. Really if a nice flashlight is sufficient for all your needs/wants that definitely makes the best money sense. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 4:29:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Received Fedex Tracking number
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Posted: 7/8/2020 4:35:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Nice! Hopefully by Saturday or Monday people will start having some idea of what to expect.
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Posted: 7/8/2020 4:55:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Received Fedex Tracking number same |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 9:57:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Received Fedex Tracking number Welcome to the club 
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Posted: 7/8/2020 10:14:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Robert charged my card today for the DBAL-A3, so I've got that going for me!
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Posted: 7/8/2020 10:30:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Received Fedex Tracking number I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks. More time to research all the other stuff I'll need. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 10:41:05 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks. More time to research all the other stuff I'll need. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Received Fedex Tracking number I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks. More time to research all the other stuff I'll need. I'm in the same boat. I'll be searching around for a mount and bracket. Got the bump cap in the order with the unit. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 11:25:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Welcome to the club I’m sure I’ve used up all my good luck for the year. Now my bet my bookie’s gonna call my debt, my wife will meet my girlfriend, and my grandpa will die 
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Posted: 7/8/2020 11:35:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Next week I've an appointment to try out various nods. I've only seen through a gov issue pvs 14 before. It was beautiful. Not at all grainy like that video.
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Posted: 7/9/2020 3:14:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm in the same boat. I'll be searching around for a mount and bracket. Got the bump cap in the order with the unit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Received Fedex Tracking number I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks. More time to research all the other stuff I'll need. I'm in the same boat. I'll be searching around for a mount and bracket. Got the bump cap in the order with the unit. Website says 12-15 weeks now. Damn. Gonna have to go to plan B for me, I guess. Not sure what that is yet though but it will cost me more. |
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Posted: 7/10/2020 12:20:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Next week I've an appointment to try out various nods. I've only seen through a gov issue pvs 14 before. It was beautiful. Not at all grainy like that video. I have very high spec unfilmed white tubes that look great with the naked eye. When i use my iphone to record a video, it doesnt look like it does in person. The camera definitely matters. My buddy took a video through my tubes with his new iphone and it looked gorgeous. My phone. Not so much... |
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Posted: 7/10/2020 3:15:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Website says 12-15 weeks now. Damn. Gonna have to go to plan B for me, I guess. Not sure what that is yet though but it will cost me more. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Received Fedex Tracking number I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks. More time to research all the other stuff I'll need. I'm in the same boat. I'll be searching around for a mount and bracket. Got the bump cap in the order with the unit. Website says 12-15 weeks now. Damn. Gonna have to go to plan B for me, I guess. Not sure what that is yet though but it will cost me more. This offering is gonna be my first Gen 3 experience. I will wait until the lead time drops and until then, it will give me time to save up
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Posted: 7/10/2020 4:10:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks. More time to research all the other stuff I'll need. same here. got a helmet coming in tmrw. I got a fandyfire but still need to figure out how to mount it. I'm sort of thinking I might just get an Arisaka IR w/ mlok offset mount. Then it's DBAL D2 and Wilcox G24. After that, I train. |
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Posted: 7/10/2020 5:25:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This offering is gonna be my first Gen 3 experience. I will wait until the lead time drops and until then, it will give me time to save up Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Received Fedex Tracking number I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks. More time to research all the other stuff I'll need. I'm in the same boat. I'll be searching around for a mount and bracket. Got the bump cap in the order with the unit. Website says 12-15 weeks now. Damn. Gonna have to go to plan B for me, I guess. Not sure what that is yet though but it will cost me more. This offering is gonna be my first Gen 3 experience. I will wait until the lead time drops and until then, it will give me time to save up Got a feeling you will have a looonngg time to save up |
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Posted: 7/10/2020 9:45:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: same here. got a helmet coming in tmrw. I got a fandyfire but still need to figure out how to mount it. I'm sort of thinking I might just get an Arisaka IR w/ mlok offset mount. Then it's DBAL D2 and Wilcox G24. After that, I train. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks. More time to research all the other stuff I'll need. same here. got a helmet coming in tmrw. I got a fandyfire but still need to figure out how to mount it. I'm sort of thinking I might just get an Arisaka IR w/ mlok offset mount. Then it's DBAL D2 and Wilcox G24. After that, I train. What helmet did you go with? I was originally going ops core bump but I couldn't find one in stock anywhere. So I picked up a wendy instead. Now I'm trying to decide if I want to get a D2 or take my chances on a perst 3. In any case, this new hobby is going to bankrupt me. |
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Posted: 7/10/2020 9:47:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What helmet did you go with? I was originally going ops core bump but I couldn't find one in stock anywhere. So I picked up a wendy instead. Now I'm trying to decide if I want to get a D2 or take my chances on a perst 3. In any case, this new hobby is going to bankrupt me. Is a DBAL-A3 a considerstion? JRH Enterprises has them in stock and on sale. |
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Posted: 7/10/2020 11:10:56 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Next week I've an appointment to try out various nods. I've only seen through a gov issue pvs 14 before. It was beautiful. Not at all grainy like that video. It's a video. Do you take visual acuity tests based on YouTube videos? |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 6:33:40 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What helmet did you go with? I was originally going ops core bump but I couldn't find one in stock anywhere. So I picked up a wendy instead. Now I'm trying to decide if I want to get a D2 or take my chances on a perst 3. In any case, this new hobby is going to bankrupt me. @-Abyss- I'm getting a Hard Head Veteran bump helmet. I think they get some hate on here so I should be clear it is a gift. but I'll report on quality and all that. Ops core or TW, probably can't go wrong. I had a good conversation with Bill at TNVC, their training manager. Obviously he has a lot of experience with pretty much any equipment made. I came away from that thinking the same, D2 or Perst. he said the D2 illuminator is really good, though the sacrifice with the D2 is weight. |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 1:16:45 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 7/11/2020 1:22:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Someone explain specs
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Posted: 7/11/2020 1:27:25 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 7/11/2020 1:32:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @tnvc or anyone  These are supposed to click together? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/184182/3A25AD17-4492-4A62-ABD2-4F33434C7D00_jpe-1499147.JPG Most of the time, yes. Bayonets are like snowflakes though... each one a liiiittle bit different. Edit: also, what’s up with the 27 and 21 you listed for S:N in the specs? Which is it for actual? |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 1:33:01 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @tnvc or anyone These are supposed to click together? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/184182/3A25AD17-4492-4A62-ABD2-4F33434C7D00_jpe-1499147.JPG Affirmative, give it a little Big of muscle, if it’s still Tight some sand paper to remove some material on the J-arm will do the trick but don’t overdo it |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 1:46:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the time, yes. Bayonets are like snowflakes though... each one a liiiittle bit different. Edit: also, what’s up with the 27 and 21 you listed for S:N in the specs? Which is it for actual? Reading: 27 Min: 21 |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 1:56:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Specs look good
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Posted: 7/11/2020 1:58:55 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 7/11/2020 2:07:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Affirmative, give it a little Big of muscle, if it’s still Tight some sand paper to remove some material on the J-arm will do the trick but don’t overdo it I feel like I’m not even close, like this piece is blocking it  Attached File@tnvc_Sam |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 2:33:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I feel like I’m not even close, like this piece is blocking it https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/184182/ECF735FF-95B9-4FC5-A1DC-9C9EDC104F94_jpe-1499206.JPG @tnvc_Sam Nah that’s not going to block anything. It doesn’t move that far. That’s the magnet for on/off. You’ll need some sandpaper. Or just sit there and repeatedly slam it into the hole
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Posted: 7/11/2020 2:38:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Looks like you got a good one. Any blemishes?
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Posted: 7/11/2020 3:03:46 PM EDT
[#36]
My j arm doesn't attach either. I'll probably get liquored up tonight and bust out the sand paper, files, and dremel, in that order. Luckily I have a couple of j arms that do fit.
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Posted: 7/11/2020 3:04:10 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 7/11/2020 3:16:05 PM EDT
[#38]
No, look and see where it’s making contact. It’ll likely be along the top/bottom corners on the side
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Posted: 7/11/2020 5:34:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Awesome, glad to see one already delivered. I was in the 1-2wk window so looking forward to stalking the wife around the house with the lights off.
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Posted: 7/11/2020 5:49:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryFound this by accident today, ended up watching a lot of @TNVC_Sam videos on Youtube. Here's videos explaining the specs on tubes. Now I am calm again and feeling good about my purchase from JRH. Had a good chat with Robert at JRH also. If you're in the market for NVDs, take the time to research this stuff first. Thats one thing I already messed up. Now that I have a better understanding of each of the main specs of a tube, I see that FOM isn't the 1 magic number that says how much a tube rocks or sucks! FOM  Failed To Load Title EBI  Failed To Load Title HALO  Failed To Load Title RES  Night Vision Resolution |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 5:59:46 PM EDT
[#41]
I got the J arm into the norotos with some moderate sanding
I’m honestly not confident in this whole contraption. This is the best of the best for the American warfighter? Also, I’m having a helluva time getting adjustments in front on my eyeglasses. Let the learning curve begin lol |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 6:03:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I got the J arm into the norotos with some moderate sanding I’m honestly not confident in this whole contraption. This is the best of the best for the American warfighter? Also, I’m having a helluva time getting adjustments in front on my eyeglasses. Let the learning curve begin lol Not to be a dick, but Wilcox. My Knight's bridge in the Wilcox G22 is like, premium machining. Fits like a silk-lined glove. |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 6:06:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to be a dick, but Wilcox. My Knight's bridge in the Wilcox G22 is like, premium machining. Fits like a silk-lined glove. But I’m looking at the g11 and g24 Both still use a J arms right? |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 6:10:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But I’m looking at the g11 and g24 Both still use a J arms right? RQE J-Arm I am running my PVS-14 in a bridge, with a FLIR Breach at the same time, so I haven't seen/touched a J-Arm yet to know exactly what you got going on (still waiting on my PVS-14). I am just saying that the quality of parts I have received and used so far, from Wilcox and Knight's, are fucking phenomenal as far as 2 pieces fitting together from 2 separate manufacturers (in any industry, night vision or otherwise). I guess to go with the Knights J-Arm, you'd need the RQE OSS too, so you're looking at like $600, without the Wilcox mount. I'm really good at spending other peoples' money  
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Posted: 7/11/2020 7:00:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But I’m looking at the g11 and g24 Both still use a J arms right? The G11 is a bayonet mount so it will take the standard USGI bayonet J-arm. The G24 is a dovetail mount so it will take dovetail arms (Wilcox J-arm or Norotos Dual Dovetail Adapter or bridges/binos that use dovetails). The G24 will not take a standard USGI bayonet J-arm. As for best of the best, everybody has since moved to the dovetails (which are absolutely superior) from the bayonet system. |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 7:15:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The G11 is a bayonet mount so it will take the standard USGI bayonet J-arm. The G24 is a dovetail mount so it will take dovetail arms (Wilcox J-arm or Norotos Dual Dovetail Adapter or bridges/binos that use dovetails). The G24 will not take a standard USGI bayonet J-arm. As for best of the best, everybody has since moved to the dovetails (which are absolutely superior) from the bayonet system. So it's either a $120 Rhino II and included J-arm that wobbles and can fall off or a $450 g24 and $200 j-arm for a tight fit. NV is expensive. |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 7:48:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it's either a $120 Rhino II and included J-arm that wobbles and can fall off or a $450 g24 and $200 j-arm for a tight fit. NV is expensive. I mean, Rhino IIs and bayonet J-arms will work, just not well. Always remember to lanyard/dummy cord your NODs regardless of what system you use (even ultra high speed binos on a G24, lanyards are still a good practice especially considering modern mounts have a breakaway feature). Also, yes, NV is expensive, but the tube is so expensive that the cost of the accessories and batteries for it just seem like noise. |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 8:00:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean, Rhino IIs and bayonet J-arms will work, just not well. Always remember to lanyard/dummy cord your NODs regardless of what system you use (even ultra high speed binos on a G24, lanyards are still a good practice especially considering modern mounts have a breakaway feature). Also, yes, NV is expensive, but the tube is so expensive that the cost of the accessories and batteries for it just seem like noise. The one plus is that it seems like most of the stuff generally holds a fair value...so you arn't losing too much if you decide to get rid of one system and buy another |
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Posted: 7/11/2020 9:57:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Go dovetail, a modded rhino II is the most economical option. I like the Wilcox dovetail j-arm with the on/off (the geometry is better). Prowl the EE and see what you can find.
Dovetail is much better than bayonet |
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Posted: 7/12/2020 12:16:48 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: arrived https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/184182/13CD0FE8-44E5-49D1-B0E4-D05AE4954CF1_jpe-1499133.JPG Specs: Luminous 2200 Radiant .830: 251 Halo Max 0.94 max 1.25 EBI phot max: 0.49 max 2.5 2x10-6 fc: 68544 Resolution center 64 FOM Max 1728 Signal noise reading: 27, min 21 OP glad you like the specs and as you can see not tons of blems, no ultra low unusable specs and YES these are ALL autogated tubes. And finally YES they come with a data sheet with all the standard accessories. Orders still pouring in for these systems and a lot of happy customers for the price. Enjoy and thanks for all the business! 
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