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Posted: 3/24/2020 6:14:36 AM EDT
I did a search, read some things. Most of my questions are rudimentary, but I had trouble pinning down answers.

I bought some stock, I plan to use the profit in 1 year to buy nods (after it will be long term cg), and while I dont want this thread to be about anything but NVD, I wanted to preface with an explanation of time to purchase.

-Do I need a mawl? Is a mawl like putting slicks on the same track driven car vs a ultra high performance summer tire, or is it like running a Porsche instead of a Yugo?

-I hate eotechs, I have personally had them die. I wont use one. I want to use an aimpoint, comp m5s. I plan to back it with a g43 or g45 magnifier (I love the magnifiers, and have used this combo before albeit in g33, and am familiar with its ups and downs in daylight or behind a wml. Not with nods though. With the single dot of the aimpoint be eye catching enough? Will I be able to use the magnifier also? Is there "physical room" for all of this and a proper cheek weld?

-I want helmet mounted nods.

-I would be fine with a pvs14...I think. Are binos really worth it? If I ran a vtac nightfighter course with a pvs 14, would it cripple me no matter my familiarity with it vs binos, or would it be more Indian than arrow?

-I want WP filmless. Will these tubes degrade with time just "sitting on the shelf"? How long/what is the rate of decay? Is another option "longer lasting"? What about with use? How to these "blems" happen? Is it a manufacturing error, or is it damage...and what damages them, if damage?

-I plan to illuminate with a modlite IR.


The way I see it, there are two paths...

Pvs14+helmet+modlite+Optic

Or

Pvs31, helmet, MAWL

I already have multiple reputable dealers I am familiar with, but I chose to post here vs calling them with "So, in a year...ish..." I want to buy new, with lifetime warranty.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 7:36:22 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I did a search, read some things. Most of my questions are rudimentary, but I had trouble pinning down answers.

I bought some stock, I plan to use the profit in 1 year to buy nods (after it will be long term cg), and while I dont want this thread to be about anything but NVD, I wanted to preface with an explanation of time to purchase.

-Do I need a mawl? Is a mawl like putting slicks on the same track driven car vs a ultra high performance summer tire, or is it like running a Porsche instead of a Yugo?

-I hate eotechs, I have personally had them die. I wont use one. I want to use an aimpoint, comp m5s. I plan to back it with a g43 or g45 magnifier (I love the magnifiers, and have used this combo before albeit in g33, and am familiar with its ups and downs in daylight or behind a wml. Not with nods though. With the single dot of the aimpoint be eye catching enough? Will I be able to use the magnifier also? Is there "physical room" for all of this and a proper cheek weld?

-I want helmet mounted nods.

-I would be fine with a pvs14...I think. Are binos really worth it? If I ran a vtac nightfighter course with a pvs 14, would it cripple me no matter my familiarity with it vs binos, or would it be more Indian than arrow?

-I want WP filmless. Will these tubes degrade with time just "sitting on the shelf"? How long/what is the rate of decay? Is another option "longer lasting"? What about with use? How to these "blems" happen? Is it a manufacturing error, or is it damage...and what damages them, if damage?

-I plan to illuminate with a modlite IR.


The way I see it, there are two paths...

Pvs14+helmet+modlite+Optic

Or

Pvs31, helmet, MAWL

I already have multiple reputable dealers I am familiar with, but I chose to post here vs calling them with "So, in a year...ish..." I want to buy new, with lifetime warranty.
View Quote


-MAWL.  You don't need a MAWL.  You do need a laser but there are many that are serviceable.  That said, from what I've heard the MAWL is a fantastic laser.  I personally have experience with DBAL i2 and PEQ-15s and haven't felt a strong urge to upgrade.

-An aimpoint on a high enough mount should work for NV use.  I wouldn't bother trying to use a magnifier under NODs, but if you want one for daytime use that flips out of the way for night time I don't see that being an issue.  Either way, lasers are much easier to use at night and passive aiming really isn't the best.

-I can't answer whether binos are worth it to you.  I use PVS-14s regularly at work and I owned one for three years.  I sold it last fall and upgraded to binos; they get delivered this week. The PVS-14 is a work horse and the Army has been using it force-wide for at least a decade.  Special units with big budgets and aviators have dual tubes, the way I see it the units that can afford it have all gone to dual tube.

-Helmet mounting is mandatory.  It allows you to do other things with your hands like shoot a gun and it makes navigating and walking/driving possible.  Weapon mounting is silly unless its a collimated device specifically designed for doing that, and if you have one of those you should also have helmet mounted NODs for doing everything else.

-I can't help with the technical details of how the tubes work or last on shelves but I'm sure someone will jump in.  I will say after using and owning green tubes with decent specs for years I upgraded to filmless WP.

-Flashlight illumination is alright for up close stuff and is probably comparable to civilian/low power IR laser illumination.  A full power laser illuminator or MAWL will blow it out of the water at distance.  A focused laser illuminator is effective at several hundred meters while a flashlight is good to maybe 100 or so.


So from my experience, to be initially capable you need a device, mount/shroud, helmet, and at least one way to aim.  The one system solution for aiming is a laser/illuminator combo like a DBAL or PEQ or MAWL.  The alternative could be an aimpoint and IR flashlight but I think that's a second place choice compared to a good laser.

My biggest advice is to try to spend enough up front to get equipment that you'll be happy with.  I, like many, started with a PVS-14 using a rhino mount on surplus ACH.  I own none of that equipment now, having upgraded to MOD-3s with a G24 on an ops-core.  I could have saved a few hundred in the long run if I had bought the right stuff the first time around.  That said, the second hand market for NV stuff is fairly strong and its not hard to buy/sell equipment as you upgrade.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 9:51:26 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


-MAWL.  You don't need a MAWL.  You do need a laser but there are many that are serviceable.  That said, from what I've heard the MAWL is a fantastic laser.  I personally have experience with DBAL i2 and PEQ-15s and haven't felt a strong urge to upgrade.

-An aimpoint on a high enough mount should work for NV use.  I wouldn't bother trying to use a magnifier under NODs, but if you want one for daytime use that flips out of the way for night time I don't see that being an issue.  Either way, lasers are much easier to use at night and passive aiming really isn't the best.

-I can't answer whether binos are worth it to you.  I use PVS-14s regularly at work and I owned one for three years.  I sold it last fall and upgraded to binos; they get delivered this week. The PVS-14 is a work horse and the Army has been using it force-wide for at least a decade.  Special units with big budgets and aviators have dual tubes, the way I see it the units that can afford it have all gone to dual tube.

-Helmet mounting is mandatory.  It allows you to do other things with your hands like shoot a gun and it makes navigating and walking/driving possible.  Weapon mounting is silly unless its a collimated device specifically designed for doing that, and if you have one of those you should also have helmet mounted NODs for doing everything else.

-I can't help with the technical details of how the tubes work or last on shelves but I'm sure someone will jump in.  I will say after using and owning green tubes with decent specs for years I upgraded to filmless WP.

-Flashlight illumination is alright for up close stuff and is probably comparable to civilian/low power IR laser illumination.  A full power laser illuminator or MAWL will blow it out of the water at distance.  A focused laser illuminator is effective at several hundred meters while a flashlight is good to maybe 100 or so.


So from my experience, to be initially capable you need a device, mount/shroud, helmet, and at least one way to aim.  The one system solution for aiming is a laser/illuminator combo like a DBAL or PEQ or MAWL.  The alternative could be an aimpoint and IR flashlight but I think that's a second place choice compared to a good laser.

My biggest advice is to try to spend enough up front to get equipment that you'll be happy with.  I, like many, started with a PVS-14 using a rhino mount on surplus ACH.  I own none of that equipment now, having upgraded to MOD-3s with a G24 on an ops-core.  I could have saved a few hundred in the long run if I had bought the right stuff the first time around.  That said, the second hand market for NV stuff is fairly strong and its not hard to buy/sell equipment as you upgrade.
View Quote


What is the quality "go to" for a bino unit auto gated Gen3 WP filmless? You know, not the super Gucci "this one has a little thing here that..." but... "the PVS-14" of binos?

ETA; If I used a MAWL, then the optic wouldn't matter, as it would be a point and click interface with the IR, yes?
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 9:52:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 9:56:31 AM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Lets talk about Lasers, MAWLS included.

In the course of you NV exploits you will at some point encounter a Photonic barrier, and its doubtful some of the lasers on the market will be able to overcome that barrier, thats where the MAWL really shines in addition to its ergonomics and mode switching. The MAWL will punch through a helluva lot more photonic barriers than most any other class 1 laser will all while not emitting a visible IR signature.

If you want a square range laser for plinking paper and steel at 50 meters just about anything will do that, but if you want to illuminate through and past photonic barriers or put light 800 meters out across a field to detect potential targets in a class 1 system only the MAWL C1+ will do that. So if you need the capability the MAWL's price though high is certainly justified.
I would rather pay once, cry once.

As far as running a VTAC Night Fighter Class....thats a low light class not a NV class, though I have shown up with a box of goodies and let VTAC students dabble in NV.
Understood. The one I attended had a NV time when people with NODS shot while the range was dark. Also, they ran NODS even when it wasn't, with minimal issue that night. As you say though, it wasn't billed as "NODS class".
Bino's are superior to monoculars for moving dynamically across terrain but it can be done with a PVS-14 but there is a steeper leaning curve.
Once learned "does it matter" if you're not flying an aircraft?
Helmets are definitely the way to go as far as NV mounting get a wilcox mount and be done with it.



https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/446803/10mawls-1330880.jpg



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Thanks a ton!

It looks like a MAWL C1, PVS-14 WP Filmless, Wilcox mount, and a helmet is the best "cheap* and effective" path?


*Relatively. We all I know I want the panos with the integrated thermal...but...reasons.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 10:29:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Do you need a MAWL no a DBAL D2's illuminator will illuminate just as far, but since it's LED based a very faint pinkish glow can be seen at a certain angle @ 100 meters. The reason the MAWL trumps most lasers is the switchology. You can quickly go from a wide beam for close up 5-40m,  medium 150-250m, long range 600m without spinning a bezel to slow you down. Is the Mawl worth the 2,500? if you want the best dynamic laser then yes it worth it. If training and hunting is what you're mainly after the D2 will do you fine and yes I have both. As for a 14 vs a bino it depends on what your main priorities are. For SHTF, packable, lightest, longest onboard battery life, weapon mountable the 14 is your answer. Binos are extremely better for driving, easier for most new people to get use to since both eyes are aided, and depth perception. I have no problem using either a BNVD, PVS14, or even a PVS7 and with enough time under either system you can become very proficient, so yes it's the indian and not the arrow. If you do go the 14 route try to run it over your dominant eye, for some it's night and day difference. As far as white vs green it's a personal choice of what color your eyes adapt to better with the least amount of fatigue. L3, ITT/Harris/Elbit WP tubes are more on the grey side, green is more brownish green and Photonis WP is has a bluish tint. For goggles IMHO RNVGs are the most rugged as well as cheapest cost and articulating binos PVS31, PVS15, BNVDs or DTNVGs is a toss up for features, cost, or weight. I went with the BNVDs because it had the best features for the money.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 11:46:35 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Do you need a MAWL no a DBAL D2's illuminator will illuminate just as far, but since it's LED based a very faint pinkish glow can be seen at a certain angle @ 100 meters. The reason the MAWL trumps most lasers is the switchology. You can quickly go from a wide beam for close up 5-40m,  medium 150-250m, long range 600m without spinning a bezel to slow you down. Is the Mawl worth the 2,500? if you want the best dynamic laser then yes it worth it. If training and hunting is what you're mainly after the D2 will do you fine and yes I have both. As for a 14 vs a bino it depends on what your main priorities are. For SHTF, packable, lightest, longest onboard battery life, weapon mountable the 14 is your answer. Binos are extremely better for driving, easier for most new people to get use to since both eyes are aided, and depth perception. I have no problem using either a BNVD, PVS14, or even a PVS7 and with enough time under either system you can become very proficient, so yes it's the indian and not the arrow. If you do go the 14 route try to run it over your dominant eye, for some it's night and day difference. As far as white vs green it's a personal choice of what color your eyes adapt to better with the least amount of fatigue. L3, ITT/Harris/Elbit WP tubes are more on the grey side, green is more brownish green and Photonis WP is has a bluish tint. For goggles IMHO RNVGs are the most rugged as well as cheapest cost and articulating binos PVS31, PVS15, BNVDs or DTNVGs is a toss up for features, cost, or weight. I went with the BNVDs because it had the best features for the money.
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At most, I would be hiking with these, not driving. It sounds like saving a buck and going with the PVS would be "the way", as my dominant eye is also my 'correct' eye, and I am fine using an optic with magnification, 2 eyes open. BAC works well for me with repeatable shift, etc.

Will familiarity "eliminate" the depth perception issue when dealing with foliage/un-even terrain/etc. while moving?

Are the PVS14's more rugged than binos by a "real" margin? (something that would actually matter in a sensible situation)?

What's the shelf-life of no-film WP tubes? Usage life?
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 1:54:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 2:11:45 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
Will familiarity "eliminate" the depth perception issue when dealing with foliage/un-even terrain/etc. while moving?
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In my experience most of the issues while moving aren't from a lack of depth perception, its from a combination of a narrow field of view and short depth of field.  Wearing nightvision is like looking through a straw that can only focus at one range at a time.  It takes a bit of practice to get used to moving your head around to see stuff instead of just moving your eyes.  Added difficulty because the focus is set further out so things you are stepping on/over are super out of focus.  It takes some practice to read the terrain ahead where you can focus on it and remember obstacles for when they're up close.  I can almost guarantee you'll trip over tree branches or step in holes the first few times you walk in the woods under NODs.  Both of these problems still exist with dual tubes.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 3:07:26 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:



At most, I would be hiking with these, not driving. It sounds like saving a buck and going with the PVS would be "the way", as my dominant eye is also my 'correct' eye, and I am fine using an optic with magnification, 2 eyes open. BAC works well for me with repeatable shift, etc.

Will familiarity "eliminate" the depth perception issue when dealing with foliage/un-even terrain/etc. while moving?

Are the PVS14's more rugged than binos by a "real" margin? (something that would actually matter in a sensible situation)?

What's the shelf-life of no-film WP tubes? Usage life?
View Quote

Sorry I should have been clearer when saying the 14 has poor depth perception I was talking more about using it with a near focus. On a infinity focus with training moving and navigating will be almost the same. You may actually prefer a 14 vs binos like my son does, but as Augee point out most will prefer goggles/binos because of both eyes being aided. Another key to using a mono 14 like you stated is BAC method which works great and allows for you to move/navigate just as well binos, but not so well driving. As for unfilmed or filmed tube life the 10k hour will never be reached by most users. The chances of better tech coming out and making your device obsolete as far as  weight, size, performance, options is far more likely to happen before the tube end of life happens.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 4:49:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 5:18:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 5:35:42 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:


-MAWL.  You don't need a MAWL.  You do need a laser but there are many that are serviceable.  
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This.  

Below is a picture Augee posted awhile back.  I grabbed it and added labels for easier viewing.

As you can see the MAWL is fine but there are other great options out there.  I settled on the DBAL-D2 and am happy with it.

Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 3/24/2020 5:42:54 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:


This.  

Below is a picture Augee posted awhile back.  I grabbed it and added labels for easier viewing.

As you can see the MAWL is fine but there are other great options out there.  I settled on the DBAL-D2 and am happy with it.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/44277/Screen_Shot_2020-03-24_at_4_32_48_PM_png-1331487.JPG
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+1. The D2 is a damn good unit.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 9:02:44 PM EDT
[#14]
If you took the same pic at 100 yards the illuminator on the 9007 and APTIAL-C would not be visible except maybe in near pitch black lighting.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 9:37:28 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:

Sorry I should have been clearer when saying the 14 has poor depth perception I was talking more about using it with a near focus. On a infinity focus with training moving and navigating will be almost the same. You may actually prefer a 14 vs binos like my son does, but as Augee point out most will prefer goggles/binos because of both eyes being aided. Another key to using a mono 14 like you stated is BAC method which works great and allows for you to move/navigate just as well binos, but not so well driving. As for unfilmed or filmed tube life the 10k hour will never be reached by most users. The chances of better tech coming out and making your device obsolete as far as  weight, size, performance, options is far more likely to happen before the tube end of life happens.
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Question...with pvs14 over dominant eye, is it possible to transition the weapon from strong to support side, and go white light and optic for longer distance use on static targets of precision nature, or will white light damage the pvs14 or is something going to physically block this movement chain as outlined above.

Example:

Carbine course where nods are in use, hose the 4 targets 5-75m with mawl and pvs, transition to support side and brace up kneeling on barricade and use modlite OKW and nx8 to tag 300m targets.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 9:42:16 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:


This.

Learn to walk in the woods at night without nods first.

Then put your NV on and start walking up to stuff with your arm extended out till you touch it- a tree, a rock, etc. Do this exercise a bunch and it will help with any "depth perception" issues. I've seen people at classes with monoculars move like water through the woods, and I've seen people with high dollar binos with WP tubes clunk into shit like they were a pinball in a pinball machine.

Just like no one fires their rifle twice a year and thinks themselves proficient, the same applies with NV.

Everyone wants to "buy" a fix but often times what they have is fine they just need to actually learn how to use it.
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I owned 34 acres that literally was half a mountainside in the appalachians of NW AR. I could run through it using a flashlight as a "strobe" without much problem. It was heavily wooded and very steep (so much so that I sold it as a 34 acres presented poor option for a home site). I am hoping nods are similar and not a crazy learning  curve.



My main fear here is buying a pvs14, and the  using a friends binos, and feeling sick.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 9:50:01 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:


+1. The D2 is a damn good unit.
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These look huge. 1 pound ish.

It looks like they include illumination, and vis and ir laser. If I want to run an ir illuminator on the gun, and dont need or want vis, is there a "just laser" option on the market that is more svelte, durable, etc? I really feel like I'd prefer just to use that and swap modlite heads on my wml than tie myself to a $2500 weight on the end of the gun.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 10:11:20 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:

These look huge. 1 pound ish.

It looks like they include illumination, and vis and ir laser. If I want to run an ir illuminator on the gun, and dont need or want vis, is there a "just laser" option on the market that is more svelte, durable, etc? I really feel like I'd prefer just to use that and swap modlite heads on my wml than tie myself to a $2500 weight on the end of the gun.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:


+1. The D2 is a damn good unit.

These look huge. 1 pound ish.

It looks like they include illumination, and vis and ir laser. If I want to run an ir illuminator on the gun, and dont need or want vis, is there a "just laser" option on the market that is more svelte, durable, etc? I really feel like I'd prefer just to use that and swap modlite heads on my wml than tie myself to a $2500 weight on the end of the gun.

DBAL D2 can regularly be found for under $1K used. It is a bit of a pig though. 12.5 oz
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 10:22:02 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:

DBAL D2 can regularly be found for under $1K used. It is a bit of a pig though. 12.5 oz
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Yes, my Modlite is 4.3oz. Why can't I find a 3-4oz laser? I am not wanting to paint targets at 5 miles. I want something that will project a 3" or smaller ROUND dot to 100 yards, beyond that diffusion can be what it be.

Maybe something like this would work, mounted in front of the FSP circa 2015?
https://tnvc.com/shop/surefire-x400v-irc/


If this is simply not viable, this seems viable:

https://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/dbal-a4

yes, it's a chonker, but it includes my white light, IR, lasers, all of it, all in 12.5oz. That is like having an 8oz laser, when you consider my white light/IR light would have been 4.3oz by itself. That makes its 12.5oz a whole lot more "okay" with me than the MAWL's.

What are the thoughts on this device? Is it reliable? does it "do what I think it will do", or are their quirks to be aware of (ex: The laser is often a blob/the mount sucks and comes loose/etc.)? How is the switchology? Is it rugged/durable?

What I would like:

I want to have a selector dial that allows me to choose IR light and laser (slaved), and then to choose vis light and green laser (slaved). If other combos of use are available, especially ability to un-slave the illuminations from t he lasers, that would be great, too, especially during the day time when zeroing the green to save battery.

I would be fine if this was a clicky button and selector knob/lever, honestly, but if it's not...what is it? Pictures?

Does the BUIS clear the top and can the BUIS be used? I saw it present in the photos on the TNVC website, but it was folded down, so I don't know if it's functional or was just present on the carbine for the product photo shoot.

This, coupled with a Modlite IR head is ANOTHER option:
https://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-otal-class-1-ir-laser/

The all-inclusiveness of the "one stop shop" that is the A4 calls to me, though, regardless of price, so long as it "does what I want, how I want".
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 11:43:53 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:

These look huge. 1 pound ish.

It looks like they include illumination, and vis and ir laser. If I want to run an ir illuminator on the gun, and dont need or want vis, is there a "just laser" option on the market that is more svelte, durable, etc? I really feel like I'd prefer just to use that and swap modlite heads on my wml than tie myself to a $2500 weight on the end of the gun.
View Quote


There aren't any devices suited for rifles/carbines I'd call svelte other than the MAWL. The smallest ones are hand gun devices like the TLR-2-IR. The DBAL I2 single spectrum (IR pointer & illuminator, no vis laser) is cheaper and lighter than the D2 but the illuminator is nowhere as good as the D2. Holosun makes what looks like a decent device but it has the same under powered laser illuminator and it's also cheaper in price.    

IR pointer only and separate illuminator can work for recreation. Most of us including myself have been down that road but eventually saw the light that a complete all-in-one device with both IR illuminator & pointer is the way to go. I prefer having one with slaved visible & IR pointers because it makes zeroing and confirming zero a lot easier. I shoot with the visible green laser on my D2 all of the time and find it very useful. I also run a white light Scout with a dual pad. There's a reason this is what everyone recommends because t works. The DBAL or ATPIAL stays on the IR illuminator & pointer setting and the white light is there if you need it.

The svelt-ist and most budget friendly option is a NV compatible red dot sight (proper NV sight like EOtech or Aimpoint) and illuminator.  

Link Posted: 3/24/2020 11:47:29 PM EDT
[#21]
How fragile IS a PVS 14? Is this one less fragile?
https://www.ultimatenightvision.com/L3-Filmless-PVS-14-Vyper-14-p/l3-vyp-14uw.htm


or what about this?
https://tnvc.com/shop/ab-night-vision-mod3-bravo-monocular/


How durable is a DBAL A4? Treat it like a weapon light, or treat it like a cell phone without a case? Will a brake like a MAMS kill it?
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 11:48:38 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:


There aren't any devices suited for rifles/carbines I'd call svelte other than the MAWL. The smallest ones are hand gun devices like the TLR-2-IR. The DBAL I2 single spectrum (IR pointer & illuminator, no vis laser) is cheaper and lighter than the D2 but the illuminator is nowhere as good as the D2. Holosun makes what looks like a decent device but it has the same under powered laser illuminator and it's also cheaper in price.    

IR pointer only and separate illuminator can work for recreation. Most of us including myself have been down that road but eventually saw the light that a complete all-in-one device with both IR illuminator & pointer is the way to go. I prefer having one with slaved visible & IR pointers because it makes zeroing and confirming zero a lot easier. I shoot with the visible green laser on my D2 all of the time and find it very useful. I also run a white light Scout with a dual pad. There's a reason this is what everyone recommends because t works. The DBAL or ATPIAL stays on the IR illuminator & pointer setting and the white light is there if you need it.

The svelt-ist and most budget friendly option is a NV compatible red dot sight (proper NV sight like EOtech or Aimpoint) and illuminator.  

View Quote

Yes, my above post kindof "evolved" along those lines as I typed and edited it, if you can see that, lol! *trying to do a quick learn*
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 12:03:10 AM EDT
[#23]
Next question...


...If I "go cheap" on my PVS14, say, I buy a Gen 3 "green" with maybe a blem in zone 3 or something, just to play with it, and I get the spec sheet for that tube (I have heard this matters), what would that item cost me? what would be its retained value in 1 year, comparatively, if I wanted to sell it and upgrade? What is the desirability of an item like that? Would it sit in the EE for months, or move ASAP?
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 2:26:54 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:

Question...with pvs14 over dominant eye, is it possible to transition the weapon from strong to support side, and go white light and optic for longer distance use on static targets of precision nature, or will white light damage the pvs14 or is something going to physically block this movement chain as outlined above.

Example:

Carbine course where nods are in use, hose the 4 targets 5-75m with mawl and pvs, transition to support side and brace up kneeling on barricade and use modlite OKW and nx8 to tag 300m targets.
View Quote

Basically all light white or IR is not good for your tube with or without autogating. An automated tube has more protection by rapidly turning on and off the tube kind of like anti lock brakes for your car. Just like you don't want to go around slamming on your car brakes every time you stop you don't want to expose your tube to light as much as possible. Will it white damage a modern AG tube with short durations of light? No. Even if you're in a "Junkyard supportside prone performing a  type 3 malfunction weapons hand down drill wearing L3 filmless white phosphor PVS 18 panos in
cerakote multicam".... You'll be all good.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 4:45:07 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Basically all light white or IR is not good for your tube with or without autogating. An automated tube has more protection by rapidly turning on and off the tube kind of like anti lock brakes for your car. Just like you don't want to go around slamming on your car brakes every time you stop you don't want to expose your tube to light as much as possible. Will it white damage a modern AG tube with short durations of light? No. Even if you're in a "Junkyard supportside prone performing a  type 3 malfunction weapons hand down drill wearing L3 filmless white phosphor PVS 18 panos in
cerakote multicam".... You'll be all good.
View Quote


Will it harm NODS with white light going AWAY, such as using your white light on the gun to illuminate a target, while of course your NODS are in front of you but behind the light source? I have no feel for how "fragile" this stuff is, or isn't.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 8:13:12 AM EDT
[#26]
The antilock brakes are a good example. It won’t damage the tube per se to be using lights, it just accelerates wear. Tubes are very long term wear items that most people will probably never run down to ‘bare metal’, but intense blasts of light like laser beams shined into them have the potential for one-time permanent damage. Otherwise normal use in low light is perfectly fine. If someone turns on the lights or whatever, the tubes may show temporary streaks in them, but those fade.

Tough to put a number or whatever on the fragility of tubes, but basically don’t shine lasers into them and don’t leave them pointed at something without moving them for a while or they could hold that image permanently. An example would be hard mounting a 14 behind a bright red dot. Because that dot is shining in the exact same spot on the tube for a long time, it could burn in. But if you stay head-mounted and just look through the red dot every so often, it’s not gonna do that because of the movement of your head. Think plasma TVs getting burn in at the store when they have advertising info or sportscenter hud elements displayed permanently.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 8:40:28 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Next question...


...If I "go cheap" on my PVS14, say, I buy a Gen 3 "green" with maybe a blem in zone 3 or something, just to play with it, and I get the spec sheet for that tube (I have heard this matters), what would that item cost me? what would be its retained value in 1 year, comparatively, if I wanted to sell it and upgrade? What is the desirability of an item like that? Would it sit in the EE for months, or move ASAP?
View Quote


For that course of action I'd recommend buying used.  There are a plethora of gear selling pages on facebook and other social media in addition to the EE where you can sell it fairly easily.  I bought my PVS-14 used on facebook for $2100 and sold it three years later on facebook for $2000.  It was an Omni-VII green tube with no blems.

Is there anyone near you that has some stuff that you can look through or play around with?  That helps a lot with figuring out subjective things like tube specs or the weight and quality of various lasers.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 8:59:16 AM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 9:12:25 AM EDT
[#29]
1) MAWL  You don't a MAWL specifically, but you do probably need an IR laser/illum combo.  There are several different routs to this.

NOTE: One thing I see a lot, of folks depending on a laser.  Lasers and IR illum are deadly to YOU if the bad guys have NODs as well.  I have been trying to up my passive game.  

2) Mono vs Binos. Binos are definitely better but binos is definitely putting you in the game. I would rather have green Binos than a WP Mono.  
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 10:03:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
1) MAWL  You don't a MAWL specifically, but you do probably need an IR laser/illum combo.  There are several different routs to this.

NOTE: One thing I see a lot, of folks depending on a laser.  Lasers and IR illum are deadly to YOU if the bad guys have NODs as well.  I have been trying to up my passive game.  

2) Mono vs Binos. Binos are definitely better but binos is definitely putting you in the game. I would rather have green Binos than a WP Mono.  
View Quote


What height mount is necessary to shoulder the weapon sensibly? (when using a helmet mounted PVS14 or binos...do binos work better or worse for passive aiming?)

What is preferred?

My choices:

-Comp M5s
-MRO HD (if it's not a monumental POS like the first MRO, I have yet to handle the HD)

+ magnifier for day use.

Is the DBAL A4 G2G? Any strange quirks? Is it exactly what it seems like, a plug-play option that does "all the things" and can ergonomically be operated with the push-button features (I am just not a "cord" guy).

Is passive aiming totally clown shoes awkward and will the PVS 14 be slapping the aimpoint and it cause all sorts of nightmare annoyance during recoil, or is it just "not as fast as point shooting with the laser"? I mean, I know this is hard to express...what sort of shit show is aiming through an RDS with a helmet mounted PVS14, really?

Are G3 tubes really worth it over good G2 tubes? Is the money savings not worth it/worth it? Is there a comparison video that could be linked? I know I can YouTube one, but I want someone who has actually used this kit to link me, because some videos make things look better/worse than they REALLY are, and I wouldn't know what I'm getting, basically, with a video I googled, having no experience.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 10:29:53 AM EDT
[#31]
Get good G3 tubes over G2 if you can fund them. The exception is the Photonis 4G. They approach the quality and specs of the L3 Filmless.


As far as “why is a laser huge”, because it’s usually multiple lasers, lenses, the zeroing apparatus, the electronics required to run it all, and a battery.

There are smaller lighter lasers (CQBL-1, Perst 4), but you lose the IR Illum portion which most folks want to have.

TNVC will be releasing a Steiner Tor IR laser only which will have a small enough footprint that it will fit on a standard handgun, but also made to be used on a rifle. If you don’t want/need IR Illum or a slaved Vis laser, then it will be your ticket.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 10:38:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Get good G3 tubes over G2 if you can fund them. The exception is the Photonis 4G. They approach the quality and specs of the L3 Filmless.


As far as “why is a laser huge”, because it’s usually multiple lasers, lenses, the zeroing apparatus,  and a battery.

There are smaller lighter lasers (CQBL-1, Perst 4), but you lose the IR Illum portion which most folks want to have.

TNVC will be releasing a Steiner Tor IR laser only which will have a small enough footprint that it will fit on a standard handgun, but also made to be used on a rifle. If you don’t want/need IR Illum or a slaved Vis laser, then it will be your ticket.
View Quote



I am slowly forming ideas.


-I love my NX8...don't want to give it up for daytime use.
-I don't want to spend $15K on this...a PVS14 Gen 4 L3 WP filmless is looking like "the ceiling".
-I definitely see the virtues of a laser vs. passive aiming for MY purposes.


So far my thoughts:

-Snag the 940nm head for my Modlite. $250 for a pretty solid "illuminator".
-Snag this: https://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-cqbl-1-class1-ir-laser/. It is a whopping 6oz, and offers a slaved IR and vis laser for 24/7 utility.
-Grab whatever PVS14 is the flavor of the month from a reputable lifet-time warranty dealer with L3 filmless WP, and a helmet and mount
-use KAC offset BUIS, as this will clear all the laser hardware. without creating "terrain" for it to bounce back from.

This will not "vote any of my kit off the island" that I already have and like, except I will have to swap Modlite heads back and forth (not a big deal).

This will not be the most Gucci ever, but unless I am wrong, it should be about the most effective way to spend $6000 and get a legit NV setup rolling. I don't know about driving, but I grew up hiking in the dark. A thing I've continued to do. I can "flash bulb" brush in front of me, and 5 feet later confidently navigate it without any more ambient. I would presume NODS would be at least as easy, unless things look further/closer from you than they really are?
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 10:51:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I will address what I can, I'm not the expert that some of the folks in this thread are.


What height mount is necessary to shoulder the weapon sensibly? (when using a helmet mounted PVS14 or binos...do binos work better or worse for passive aiming?)

What is preferred?

I am having good luck with a "lower 1/3" mini RDS mounted all the way at the front of the receiver.  My only personal comparison to this is a Aimpoint PRO mounted in the same location with a true co-witness.  I can get hits with the PRO, but the mini high mounted is a much better solution.

My choices:

-Comp M5s
-MRO HD (if it's not a monumental POS like the first MRO, I have yet to handle the HD)

+ magnifier for day use.

Is the DBAL A4 G2G? Any strange quirks? Is it exactly what it seems like, a plug-play option that does "all the things" and can ergonomically be operated with the push-button features (I am just not a "cord" guy).

I do not have experience with a lot of lasers, only DBALs and I don't even know what generation.  I have played with a MAWL and will say without a doubt that it wins in the ergonomics and svelte categories.

Is passive aiming totally clown shoes awkward and will the PVS 14 be slapping the aimpoint and it cause all sorts of nightmare annoyance during recoil, or is it just "not as fast as point shooting with the laser"? I mean, I know this is hard to express...what sort of shit show is aiming through an RDS with a helmet mounted PVS14, really?

Like all things, shooting passive requires practice.  I will say that it requires more practice than just about anything not involving NODs.  I don't think it will ever be as fast as point shooting with a laser.  But then point shooting with a laser is faster in daylight, and you don't see many pros/semipros doing that do you?  With practice it is not clown shoes retarded.  But I have, and you should have. the ability to do both.

Are G3 tubes really worth it over good G2 tubes? Is the money savings not worth it/worth it? Is there a comparison video that could be linked? I know I can YouTube one, but I want someone who has actually used this kit to link me, because some videos make things look better/worse than they REALLY are, and I wouldn't know what I'm getting, basically, with a video I googled, having no experience.

The only video I have made like this compares my "decent" tube to a white phosphor tube. link
View Quote

Link Posted: 3/25/2020 11:07:03 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I am slowly forming ideas.


-I love my NX8...don't want to give it up for daytime use.
-I don't want to spend $15K on this...a PVS14 Gen 4 L3 WP filmless is looking like "the ceiling".
-I definitely see the virtues of a laser vs. passive aiming for MY purposes.


So far my thoughts:

-Snag the 940nm head for my Modlite. $250 for a pretty solid "illuminator".
-Snag this: https://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-cqbl-1-class1-ir-laser/. It is a whopping 6oz, and offers a slaved IR and vis laser for 24/7 utility.
-Grab whatever PVS14 is the flavor of the month from a reputable lifet-time warranty dealer with L3 filmless WP, and a helmet and mount
-use KAC offset BUIS, as this will clear all the laser hardware. without creating "terrain" for it to bounce back from.

This will not "vote any of my kit off the island" that I already have and like, except I will have to swap Modlite heads back and forth (not a big deal).

This will not be the most Gucci ever, but unless I am wrong, it should be about the most effective way to spend $6000 and get a legit NV setup rolling. I don't know about driving, but I grew up hiking in the dark. A thing I've continued to do. I can "flash bulb" brush in front of me, and 5 feet later confidently navigate it without any more ambient. I would presume NODS would be at least as easy, unless things look further/closer from you than they really are?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Get good G3 tubes over G2 if you can fund them. The exception is the Photonis 4G. They approach the quality and specs of the L3 Filmless.


As far as “why is a laser huge”, because it’s usually multiple lasers, lenses, the zeroing apparatus,  and a battery.

There are smaller lighter lasers (CQBL-1, Perst 4), but you lose the IR Illum portion which most folks want to have.

TNVC will be releasing a Steiner Tor IR laser only which will have a small enough footprint that it will fit on a standard handgun, but also made to be used on a rifle. If you don’t want/need IR Illum or a slaved Vis laser, then it will be your ticket.



I am slowly forming ideas.


-I love my NX8...don't want to give it up for daytime use.
-I don't want to spend $15K on this...a PVS14 Gen 4 L3 WP filmless is looking like "the ceiling".
-I definitely see the virtues of a laser vs. passive aiming for MY purposes.


So far my thoughts:

-Snag the 940nm head for my Modlite. $250 for a pretty solid "illuminator".
-Snag this: https://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-cqbl-1-class1-ir-laser/. It is a whopping 6oz, and offers a slaved IR and vis laser for 24/7 utility.
-Grab whatever PVS14 is the flavor of the month from a reputable lifet-time warranty dealer with L3 filmless WP, and a helmet and mount
-use KAC offset BUIS, as this will clear all the laser hardware. without creating "terrain" for it to bounce back from.

This will not "vote any of my kit off the island" that I already have and like, except I will have to swap Modlite heads back and forth (not a big deal).

This will not be the most Gucci ever, but unless I am wrong, it should be about the most effective way to spend $6000 and get a legit NV setup rolling. I don't know about driving, but I grew up hiking in the dark. A thing I've continued to do. I can "flash bulb" brush in front of me, and 5 feet later confidently navigate it without any more ambient. I would presume NODS would be at least as easy, unless things look further/closer from you than they really are?

That’s a good start.


I had a mono for a very long time. I like my CQBL quite a lot.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 12:18:31 PM EDT
[#35]
CQBL is very nice & light if you just want a laser.  I'm a big fan of the slaved vis laser having had one without.  Zeroing one with no slaved vis by yourself is a bit of a pain.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 1:59:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Everyone of my friends I have talked to is telling me, given my personality, binos are the path I need to take.

What is the best cheap binos out there? I know that's an oxymoron, especially when NODS are involved, but you know what I mean.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 2:39:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Everyone of my friends I have talked to is telling me, given my personality, binos are the path I need to take.

What is the best cheap binos out there? I know that's an oxymoron, especially when NODS are involved, but you know what I mean.
View Quote

RNVGs.

https://tnvc.com/shop/ab-nightvision-rnvg-ruggedized-night-vision-goggle/
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 4:17:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Everyone of my friends I have talked to is telling me, given my personality, binos are the path I need to take.

What is the best cheap binos out there? I know that's an oxymoron, especially when NODS are involved, but you know what I mean.
View Quote


Probably RNVG with Photonis tubes

There is nothing wrong with a quality PVS-14 though.  If you have money ready you can get a used one from one of the mainstream vendors (with warranty) for a discount.  Get it and figure out what it is you want, then sell it and get your money back.  I'd only buy a verifiable commercial unit though.  Avoid the no-names.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 11:39:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Probably RNVG with Photonis tubes

There is nothing wrong with a quality PVS-14 though.  If you have money ready you can get a used one from one of the mainstream vendors (with warranty) for a discount.  Get it and figure out what it is you want, then sell it and get your money back.  I'd only buy a verifiable commercial unit though.  Avoid the no-names.
View Quote


No money ready at the second, waiting on the stock market. I just want to have a knowledge fund when I have a cash fund.
Link Posted: 3/25/2020 11:49:01 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Everyone of my friends I have talked to is telling me, given my personality, binos are the path I need to take.

What is the best cheap binos out there? I know that's an oxymoron, especially when NODS are involved, but you know what I mean.
View Quote


I’d rather have a top of the line -14 over a cheap bino.

I’ve got hundreds of hours with both* not that that’s rare in this sub-forum, just saying that my opinion is from experience.
Link Posted: 3/26/2020 12:13:03 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I’d rather have a top of the line -14 over a cheap bino.

I’ve got hundreds of hours with both* not that that’s rare in this sub-forum, just saying that my opinion is from experience.
View Quote


Well, what is a "cheap bino"? What is t he "lowest" bino you would say is better than a PVS14 Vyper chassis with L3 filmless tubes?

Keep in mind, I literally know jack shit about this topic, so explaining things to me on a very rudimentary level is not taken as condescending. That's where I'm "at" right now.
Link Posted: 3/26/2020 12:36:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Well, what is a "cheap bino"? What is t he "lowest" bino you would say is better than a PVS14 Vyper chassis with L3 filmless tubes?

Keep in mind, I literally know jack shit about this topic, so explaining things to me on a very rudimentary level is not taken as condescending. That's where I'm "at" right now.
View Quote


You’re looking at it wrong, IMO. I don’t mean most expensive, I mean an autogated, manual gain, gen 3 WP tube, professionally installed with high specs. If I were you I would plan on a tad over $4,000 after shipping from TNVC or JRH (both excellent dealers here).

I’m sure you could get a cheap used bino setup for not too much more than that, but I personally would rather see things without the aid of IR light in the darkest of conditions, rather than have a slightly improved ability to navigate very quickly.

It was mentioned earlier, but bears repeating, you can easily sell a well cared for -14 and put it towards a bino set if you decide to. It’s not like you’re locked in and I’d personally try use the lower entry point as a way to put more money towards the other NV gear that’s just as important, like the laser/illuminator, mount, helmet, shroud, and so on that will add up $$$

There will be plenty of time down the road to upgrade, but a good solid -14 is a great place to start and possibly never need to upgrade from.
Link Posted: 3/26/2020 1:17:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


You’re looking at it wrong, IMO. I don’t mean most expensive, I mean an autogated, manual gain, gen 3 WP tube, professionally installed with high specs. If I were you I would plan on a tad over $4,000 after shipping from TNVC or JRH (both excellent dealers here).

I’m sure you could get a cheap used bino setup for not too much more than that, but I personally would rather see things without the aid of IR light in the darkest of conditions, rather than have a slightly improved ability to navigate very quickly.

It was mentioned earlier, but bears repeating, you can easily sell a well cared for -14 and put it towards a bino set if you decide to. It’s not like you’re locked in and I’d personally try use the lower entry point as a way to put more money towards the other NV gear that’s just as important, like the laser/illuminator, mount, helmet, shroud, and so on that will add up $$$

There will be plenty of time down the road to upgrade, but a good solid -14 is a great place to start and possibly never need to upgrade from.
View Quote


My issue is ignorance. I have friends that are using panos with fusion. They are all "Bruh...binos at least..." PVS31 is kindof "the floor" for them.

My fear is that I will ignore them and be sad about being a 1 eyed man in the land of the blind instead of having both eyes.
My fear is also that I will spend $15K on all of this, and then use a PVS-14, and say "damn...I move fine. I like my binos, but this would have been A-OK!"


Additional questions:

You bring up passive use (no signature). My other friends have brought this up, too. Doing a lot of looking around, Aimpoint on a 3.5" HOB mount has a lot of good reviews. I could do an AP with the twist-mount behind it for a magnifier on a RB1 KAC mount. Then the question is T2 or CompM5s?
I have also heard that Eotech is the best for passive aiming due to window size as well as reticle format and "optical clarity". Is the EXPS3 mount high enough, or would I need a riser for that, too? Has L3 fixed the issues with Eotech? I had a 2013 model EXPS3 and wrote all the bad-press off as just "internet BS", and then MINE delaminated, lol, so I am very leery. If they DID fix t hem...can you explain how and point me to the white paper or announcement or similar? DO you have other suggestions that may be better for passive aiming?

Will the PVS-14 (or binos) cause a POI shift being used behind the optic either helmet or gun mounted?
Link Posted: 3/26/2020 3:19:26 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


My issue is ignorance. I have friends that are using panos with fusion. They are all "Bruh...binos at least..." PVS31 is kindof "the floor" for them.

My fear is that I will ignore them and be sad about being a 1 eyed man in the land of the blind instead of having both eyes.
My fear is also that I will spend $15K on all of this, and then use a PVS-14, and say "damn...I move fine. I like my binos, but this would have been A-OK!"


Additional questions:

You bring up passive use (no signature). My other friends have brought this up, too. Doing a lot of looking around, Aimpoint on a 3.5" HOB mount has a lot of good reviews. I could do an AP with the twist-mount behind it for a magnifier on a RB1 KAC mount. Then the question is T2 or CompM5s?
I have also heard that Eotech is the best for passive aiming due to window size as well as reticle format and "optical clarity". Is the EXPS3 mount high enough, or would I need a riser for that, too? Has L3 fixed the issues with Eotech? I had a 2013 model EXPS3 and wrote all the bad-press off as just "internet BS", and then MINE delaminated, lol, so I am very leery. If they DID fix t hem...can you explain how and point me to the white paper or announcement or similar? DO you have other suggestions that may be better for passive aiming?

Will the PVS-14 (or binos) cause a POI shift being used behind the optic either helmet or gun mounted?
View Quote

Your questions to which is best, most durable, best height, etc is going to get you a plethora of answers depending on who you ask. IMHO no one is going to give you the answer you seek and it seems you're going around in circles. Everyone elses answer may not work for you. If you have friends with panos, binos, etc you should try out what they have and come to your own conclusion. For instance RDS and rail height. A T1 1/3 cowhitness works great for me with binos or a PVS14 with a Jarm over my dominant eye. Will a higher mount work? Sure, but for me I'd rather retain my BUIS, so again others may feel different. Which one is best? Depends on who you ask. Which will work best for you? You have to try it out to find out. This goes for all the other questions you can't seem to find an answer for. Set a budget and list how you intend to use it. List all the things you want to covet in that budget as well as if nor getting wp is a deal breaker or not. If not you'll never get off of this merry go round of questions.
Link Posted: 3/26/2020 5:13:38 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Your questions to which is best, most durable, best height, etc is going to get you a plethora of answers depending on who you ask. IMHO no one is going to give you the answer you seek and it seems you're going around in circles. Everyone elses answer may not work for you. If you have friends with panos, binos, etc you should try out what they have and come to your own conclusion. For instance RDS and rail height. A T1 1/3 cowhitness works great for me with binos or a PVS14 with a Jarm over my dominant eye. Will a higher mount work? Sure, but for me I'd rather retain my BUIS, so again others may feel different. Which one is best? Depends on who you ask. Which will work best for you? You have to try it out to find out. This goes for all the other questions you can't seem to find an answer for. Set a budget and list how you intend to use it. List all the things you want to covet in that budget as well as if nor getting wp is a deal breaker or not. If not you'll never get off of this merry go round of questions.
View Quote



Understood.

Let's draw the line at $6500, with some wiggle-room (if it takes $7400, for tangible benefit, I won't refuse it, for example).

Two thoughts:

Passive: Aimpoint Comp M5S on a RB1/KAC high mount, with a PVS14 helmet mount and TW14 mount. Filmless L3 WP (I really would like WP, as I prefer it for just walking around, which night hiking, etc. is an intended slice of the "usage pie" for this purchase) and an Aimpoint magnifier in the TW mount for day use/zeroing/etc. Grab a Modlite 940nm head for when I DO want some added illumination and am not going passive.

Helmet+PVS+mounting comes in at around $5K the way I estimate it, and $1500 or so for the mag/M5s/mounting.

This allows me to also keep my BUIS, which is "a thing" for me, as well. The BUIS are used THROUGH the RB1/KAC mount, which gives a 3.5" HOB for the optic, so I should be able to shoot through it with helmet mounted PVS14, or so I am told, without undue stress strain and contortion.

___________________________________


Active: Same NV setup, but instead of the optic solution above, go with a MAWL C1. Shoot using the laser at night, and keep my NX8/C1 1.70 mount in place. Keep my modlite as-is, as the C1 illuminates as well.


If I went with the "Active" setup, I would likely leave it there. If I went with the "Passive" setup, I would likely add a MAWL C1 "sometime in the future".


___________________________________

Questions with finite answers:

-Will the PVS14--->Comp M5s cause any POI shift issues?
-Will a PVS14 autogated be damaged if I hit my Modlite and transition the gun to my non-dominant eye (1500 lumens, but going AWAY from the light). Scenario includes open field, as well as light colored walls indoors.
-Is the Aimpoint TW mount "solid" under active tension like the G33 Eotech mount, or is it loose or reliant on exacting tolerances (which are always a tiny bit of slack)?
-Is a housing like the Vyper worth it on the PVS14 if I intend to weapon mount it?
-Are the L3 Filmless WP tubes more durable than filmed tubes for weapon mounting, and if so, what is it then "rated" at, as I know the PVS14 filmed are "rated" 5.56, but this is kindof a "Well, if it isn't your money, okay..." and will TNVC warranty a lifetime warranty unit, if I have only used it on a 5.56 gun, and abuse is not a factor in why it broke, or is weapon-mounting a DQ for the warranty?

I understand what you mean with regards to the other. It's very hard for you to tell me how the water feels.

I am backing off of the binos train because that sounds like $12K or so once all said and done, and honestly, I have other things I need to buy/pay for/do at that point.
Link Posted: 3/26/2020 8:18:29 AM EDT
[#46]
-Will the PVS14--->Comp M5s cause any POI shift issues?
No, but don’t weapon-mount the 14.
-Will a PVS14 autogated be damaged if I hit my Modlite and transition the gun to my non-dominant eye (1500 lumens, but going AWAY from the light). Scenario includes open field, as well as light colored walls indoors.
I thought you were getting an IR head for the ML. That’s not measured in lumens, it’s milliwatts. As I thought was earlier in the thread here, it’s not damage per se but wear. The more light energy you pump through the tube, the faster it wears out but you are very unlikely to see the impacts of this. In general there’s no problem turning the lights on for a bit or shining a bright light around (vis or IR doesn’t matter, it’s all just light that the tube is having to deal with).
-Is the Aimpoint TW mount "solid" under active tension like the G33 Eotech mount, or is it loose or reliant on exacting tolerances (which are always a tiny bit of slack)?
I’ll let others comment here. Don’t have firsthand on that one.
-Is a housing like the Vyper worth it on the PVS14 if I intend to weapon mount it?
Don’t weapon mount it.
-Are the L3 Filmless WP tubes more durable than filmed tubes for weapon mounting, and if so, what is it then "rated" at, as I know the PVS14 filmed are "rated" 5.56, but this is kindof a "Well, if it isn't your money, okay..." and will TNVC warranty a lifetime warranty unit, if I have only used it on a 5.56 gun, and abuse is not a factor in why it broke, or is weapon-mounting a DQ for the warranty?
You’d have to talk to your NV dealer about what will or won’t void their warranty.
-I am backing off of the binos train because that sounds like $12K or so once all said and done, and honestly, I have other things I need to buy/pay for/do at that point.
This is all based on profits you’re expecting to make from stock purchased this past week right? At least you have a reasonable idea of the total investment to go with binos and support equipment.

I think you need to save enough money to go to a NV training class where you could rent gear and have your questions answered firsthand. If I was dropping that much money it’d be worth it rather than just typing back and forth online. I’ve got a list of outfits that do training listed at the bottom here - https://www.jwramp.com/news/night-shoot-venues

Also, go hang out with whoever your friend is with the fusion panos... they probably know a thing or two about this stuff. And please take pictures for us to drool over
Link Posted: 3/26/2020 8:37:26 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Questions with finite answers:

-Will the PVS14--->Comp M5s cause any POI shift issues?
-Will a PVS14 autogated be damaged if I hit my Modlite and transition the gun to my non-dominant eye (1500 lumens, but going AWAY from the light). Scenario includes open field, as well as light colored walls indoors.
-Is the Aimpoint TW mount "solid" under active tension like the G33 Eotech mount, or is it loose or reliant on exacting tolerances (which are always a tiny bit of slack)?
-Is a housing like the Vyper worth it on the PVS14 if I intend to weapon mount it?
-Are the L3 Filmless WP tubes more durable than filmed tubes for weapon mounting, and if so, what is it then "rated" at, as I know the PVS14 filmed are "rated" 5.56, but this is kindof a "Well, if it isn't your money, okay..." and will TNVC warranty a lifetime warranty unit, if I have only used it on a 5.56 gun, and abuse is not a factor in why it broke, or is weapon-mounting a DQ for the warranty?

I understand what you mean with regards to the other. It's very hard for you to tell me how the water feels.

I am backing off of the binos train because that sounds like $12K or so once all said and done, and honestly, I have other things I need to buy/pay for/do at that point.
View Quote


1) If mounted behind your optic no.
2) Transitioning a rifle from one hand to another makes no difference so I have no idea why it's mentioned. To answer your question use your NV but don't over expose it to any light source more than necessary.
3) I have no idea since I don't have that setup
4) Yes
5) Depends on who you ask, but if a filmed tube was dropped in the off position it has the potential to be damaged vs a filmless tube.
6) IIRC TNVC has a 10 year warranty on their tubes with a lifetime warranty on the housing. If you have recoil damage on the tube there is no way to tell if it was dropped, or if it is from a 5.56 vs a bigger caliber, so I would contact them for clarification.
Link Posted: 3/26/2020 9:18:55 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
-Will the PVS14--->Comp M5s cause any POI shift issues?
No, but don’t weapon-mount the 14.
-Will a PVS14 autogated be damaged if I hit my Modlite and transition the gun to my non-dominant eye (1500 lumens, but going AWAY from the light). Scenario includes open field, as well as light colored walls indoors.
I thought you were getting an IR head for the ML. That’s not measured in lumens, it’s milliwatts. As I thought was earlier in the thread here, it’s not damage per se but wear. The more light energy you pump through the tube, the faster it wears out but you are very unlikely to see the impacts of this. In general there’s no problem turning the lights on for a bit or shining a bright light around (vis or IR doesn’t matter, it’s all just light that the tube is having to deal with).
-Is the Aimpoint TW mount "solid" under active tension like the G33 Eotech mount, or is it loose or reliant on exacting tolerances (which are always a tiny bit of slack)?
I’ll let others comment here. Don’t have firsthand on that one.
-Is a housing like the Vyper worth it on the PVS14 if I intend to weapon mount it?
Don’t weapon mount it.
-Are the L3 Filmless WP tubes more durable than filmed tubes for weapon mounting, and if so, what is it then "rated" at, as I know the PVS14 filmed are "rated" 5.56, but this is kindof a "Well, if it isn't your money, okay..." and will TNVC warranty a lifetime warranty unit, if I have only used it on a 5.56 gun, and abuse is not a factor in why it broke, or is weapon-mounting a DQ for the warranty?
You’d have to talk to your NV dealer about what will or won’t void their warranty.
-I am backing off of the binos train because that sounds like $12K or so once all said and done, and honestly, I have other things I need to buy/pay for/do at that point.
This is all based on profits you’re expecting to make from stock purchased this past week right? At least you have a reasonable idea of the total investment to go with binos and support equipment.

I think you need to save enough money to go to a NV training class where you could rent gear and have your questions answered firsthand. If I was dropping that much money it’d be worth it rather than just typing back and forth online. I’ve got a list of outfits that do training listed at the bottom here - https://www.jwramp.com/news/night-shoot-venues

Also, go hang out with whoever your friend is with the fusion panos... they probably know a thing or two about this stuff. And please take pictures for us to drool over
View Quote



1) I wont weapon mount it.
2) I dont want to comment on stocks, other than to explain that is why on my timeline.
3) Moet of my friends live far from me (plane flight far), or I'd have done that instead of this thread, for sure!
Link Posted: 3/26/2020 9:23:30 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


1) If mounted behind your optic no.
2) Transitioning a rifle from one hand to another makes no difference so I have no idea why it's mentioned. To answer your question use your NV but don't over expose it to any light source more than necessary.
3) I have no idea since I don't have that setup
4) Yes
5) Depends on who you ask, but if a filmed tube was dropped in the off position it has the potential to be damaged vs a filmless tube.
6) IIRC TNVC has a 10 year warranty on their tubes with a lifetime warranty on the housing. If you have recoil damage on the tube there is no way to tell if it was dropped, or if it is from a 5.56 vs a bigger caliber, so I would contact them for clarification.
View Quote


I meant if ,I was shooting passive at coyotes, but for some reason wanted more precision. My solution would be to transition (to get the gun out from on front of the pvs), and slap the mag in place and hit  the white light.

I should have kept it simple. "Can I use a white light with the pvs14, not looking through the pvs14, in extremis".

Will I get passive use poi shift if the pvs is helmet mounted and I'm not perfectly squared, or is it like a magnifier, it doesnt matter since its behind the AP?
Link Posted: 3/26/2020 9:26:22 AM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This.

Learn to walk in the woods at night without nods first.

Then put your NV on and start walking up to stuff with your arm extended out till you touch it- a tree, a rock, etc. Do this exercise a bunch and it will help with any "depth perception" issues. I've seen people at classes with monoculars move like water through the woods, and I've seen people with high dollar binos with WP tubes clunk into shit like they were a pinball in a pinball machine.

Just like no one fires their rifle twice a year and thinks themselves proficient, the same applies with NV.

Everyone wants to "buy" a fix but often times what they have is fine they just need to actually learn how to use it.
View Quote


I think if you've spent a bunch of time out in the woods in the dark before getting night vision and were comfortable with it, you'll readily adapt to it w/ NV. That was my experience as a new user anyway. I also found that if I set my PVS14 gain juuust high enough to see with one eye, my other eye fills in a lot of gaps even though it's naked.
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