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Posted: 3/26/2020 9:34:07 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I meant if ,I was shooting passive at coyotes, but for some reason wanted more precision. My solution would be to transition (to get the gun out from on front of the pvs), and slap the mag in place and hit the white light. I should have kept it simple. "Can I use a white light with the pvs14, not looking through the pvs14, in extremis". Will I get passive use poi shift if the pvs is helmet mounted and I'm not perfectly squared, or is it like a magnifier, it doesnt matter since its behind the AP? My precision with an IR laser is no worse than a red dot or ACOG. No need to switch, other than loss of NVG capability, or something like that, IMO. |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 9:48:42 AM EDT
[#2]
I've read all of the responses and here is the advise I'd give (every scenario is different and this is just based on what JohnDough has said):
I'd get a new PVS-14, WP & filmless with transferable warranty from one of the mainstream vendors ~$4000 A good helmet (comfort matters, skip the ballistics), swing arm mount, counterweight, peltors etc etc ~$1000 Your choice of the various lasers that are <$1000 Use all that stuff for a while and figure out what your preferences are. Once you get a better idea of what setup YOU like than sell the PVS-14 and/or laser and upgrade. A good PVS-14 and laser shouldn't depreciate too much if they aren't abused. The helmet is a buy once, cry once purchase. Get a nice helmet/counterweight/peltors & swing arm. I'd get the wilcox G24 (needs a dovetail j-arm). The NVGs and lasers etc may change over time but you get the best helmet you can up front and keep it. I say all that as someone (like many here) who started off with a PVS-7 and skateboard helmet. |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 9:51:12 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will I get passive use poi shift if the pvs is helmet mounted and I'm not perfectly squared, or is it like a magnifier, it doesnt matter since its behind the AP? There will be no POI shift from using a helmet-mounted NOD. As you said, it won't matter because it is behind the red dot. I admittedly haven't done a lot of passive shooting with night vision but my initial impression is its not that great. An important capability if you are in a situation where your targets shoot back and have night vision capability themselves, but otherwise really not that useful. Aiming with a laser/illuminator is super easy. |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 9:53:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've read all of the responses and here is the advise I'd give (every scenario is different and this is just based on what JohnDough has said): I'd get a new PVS-14, WP & filmless with transferable warranty from one of the mainstream vendors ~$4000 A good helmet (comfort matters, skip the ballistics), swing arm mount, counterweight, peltors etc etc ~$1000 Your choice of the various lasers that are <$1000 Use all that stuff for a while and figure out what your preferences are. Once you get a better idea of what setup YOU like than sell the PVS-14 and/or laser and upgrade. A good PVS-14 and laser shouldn't depreciate too much if they aren't abused. The helmet is a buy once, cry once purchase. Get a nice helmet/counterweight/peltors & swing arm. I'd get the wilcox G24. The NVGs and lasers etc may change over time but you get the best helmet you can up front and keep it. I say all that as someone (like many here) who started off with a PVS-7 and skateboard helmet. Thanks! One question...why the pvs 7 hate I keep seeing in many threads? Same tube...but feeds into both eyes, so depth is still limited but...why is getting no love? |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 9:57:44 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks! One question...why the pvs 7 hate I keep seeing in many threads? Same tube...but feeds into both eyes, so depth is still limited but...why is getting no love? I actually prefer a PVS-7 over a PVS-14. My first PVS-7 had a great tube (luck of the draw). I listened to the conventional thinking and sold it to get a nice PVS-14. I never was as comfortable with the PVS-14 as the PVS-7. Most people prefer having one eye uncovered for various reasons. Another point is a PVS-7 provides the same "flat" image as a PVS-14 but has the drawback of covering both eyes. For stationary viewing or stargazing PVS-7 is better IMO. The trouble with PVS-7 is new ones are usually pretty expensive and safely buying used NV is riddled with pitfalls. I've said for years everyone should only buy tubes of verifiable provenance. It's complicated even when you know what you are doing. Best to buy new or used mainstream commercial NVGs, particularly when getting started. |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 10:02:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks! One question...why the pvs 7 hate I keep seeing in many threads? Same tube...but feeds into both eyes, so depth is still limited but...why is getting no love? A lot more weight for not much benefit and a few penalties. |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 10:31:33 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Can I use a white light with the pvs14, not looking through the pvs14, in extremis". Will I get passive use poi shift if the pvs is helmet mounted and I'm not perfectly squared, or is it like a magnifier, it doesn't matter since its behind the AP? 1) Yes, but again it depends on how bright your light and duration will determine how long it'll take to damage your tube. Turn on a 60 watt bulb for a few seconds no problem, turn on your NODs and look at the sun is going to be a another story. 2)Not any more than you'd get with looking through your RDS without NODs |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 11:46:42 AM EDT
[#8]
I covered one eye while driving. It was a bit unnerving (mountains/tight corners), but I feel like I could get used to it. Is a PVS14 similar? Anyone get a headache or any issues using it hiking,etc. for long durations of time?
Looking at everything, I think my best option as I see it is to keep my NX8, and just simply do nothing to the weapon except add a MAWL C1. I won't have passive ability, but peer/near peer firefights are not the purpose of this gun. Budget-wise, the PVS-14 with a good tube from a reputable dealer and a solid helmet/mount setup are likely the way I'll go. A friend of mine also recommended a refurb ANVIS 9. Any reason not to go that route for $4500ish? |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 12:29:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I covered one eye while driving. It was a bit unnerving (mountains/tight corners), but I feel like I could get used to it. Is a PVS14 similar? Anyone get a headache or any issues using it hiking,etc. for long durations of time? Looking at everything, I think my best option as I see it is to keep my NX8, and just simply do nothing to the weapon except add a MAWL C1. I won't have passive ability, but peer/near peer firefights are not the purpose of this gun. Budget-wise, the PVS-14 with a good tube from a reputable dealer and a solid helmet/mount setup are likely the way I'll go. You could add an offset RDS or reflex sight. |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 12:43:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could add an offset RDS or reflex sight. How does that work with PVS14 helmet mount, ergonomically speaking? I would of course use the Badger C1 attachment arm on my C1 mount (1.70). |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 6:15:15 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've read all of the responses and here is the advise I'd give (every scenario is different and this is just based on what JohnDough has said): I'd get a new PVS-14, WP & filmless with transferable warranty from one of the mainstream vendors ~$4000 A good helmet (comfort matters, skip the ballistics), swing arm mount, counterweight, peltors etc etc ~$1000 Your choice of the various lasers that are <$1000 Use all that stuff for a while and figure out what your preferences are. Once you get a better idea of what setup YOU like than sell the PVS-14 and/or laser and upgrade. A good PVS-14 and laser shouldn't depreciate too much if they aren't abused. The helmet is a buy once, cry once purchase. Get a nice helmet/counterweight/peltors & swing arm. I'd get the wilcox G24 (needs a dovetail j-arm). The NVGs and lasers etc may change over time but you get the best helmet you can up front and keep it. I say all that as someone (like many here) who started off with a PVS-7 and skateboard helmet. Yep. Maybe give the wife or kid the PVS14, or use it as a loaner. |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 6:16:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I covered one eye while driving. It was a bit unnerving (mountains/tight corners), but I feel like I could get used to it. Is a PVS14 similar? Anyone get a headache or any issues using it hiking,etc. for long durations of time? Looking at everything, I think my best option as I see it is to keep my NX8, and just simply do nothing to the weapon except add a MAWL C1. I won't have passive ability, but peer/near peer firefights are not the purpose of this gun. Budget-wise, the PVS-14 with a good tube from a reputable dealer and a solid helmet/mount setup are likely the way I'll go. A friend of mine also recommended a refurb ANVIS 9. Any reason not to go that route for $4500ish? Anvis are (relatively) fragile. |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 6:51:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does that work with PVS14 helmet mount, ergonomically speaking? I would of course use the Badger C1 attachment arm on my C1 mount (1.70). I don’t have any direct experience but I would assume something like this mounted just forward of your NX8 would give you plenty of clearance to use the sight. https://www.trex-arms.com/store/T-REX-Offset-Mount/ |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 7:40:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anvis are (relatively) fragile. I would say more than “relatively”.  I swear the damn things are made of bone China. |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 8:14:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would say more than “relatively”. I swear the damn things are made of bone China. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anvis are (relatively) fragile. I would say more than “relatively”. I swear the damn things are made of bone China. I'd use that term lightly as of late.  Also seems as of late, made in China NV and thermal is ok? Not too long we'd get hung out to dry selling that stuff. Sigh, cheap and profit margins are the name of the game nowadays  |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 8:48:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd use that term lightly as of late. Also seems as of late, made in China NV and thermal is ok? Not too long we'd get hung out to dry selling that stuff. Sigh, cheap and profit margins are the name of the game nowadays Not OK. Fnck China. I'll pay three times as much and spend a great deal of time searching to buy products made anywhere else. |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 9:24:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks! One question...why the pvs 7 hate I keep seeing in many threads? Same tube...but feeds into both eyes, so depth is still limited but...why is getting no love? Depends on who you ask. As for depth perception vs binos there is little to no difference for me. Why no love? maybe all the people that bought binos want to fell better about spending many thousands more, but it is older tech that is still in use with militaries around the world. I used all 3 systems binos, monos, biocular and if you wanted the cheapest way to get a gen 3 Omni VII tube with both eyes aided a used PVS7 for 900-1,200 is your answer. If your needs are for the lightest, most packable, most utility and the longest battery life the PVS14 would be it. |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 9:45:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I covered one eye while driving. It was a bit unnerving (mountains/tight corners), but I feel like I could get used to it. Is a PVS14 similar? Anyone get a headache or any issues using it hiking,etc. for long durations of time? Looking at everything, I think my best option as I see it is to keep my NX8, and just simply do nothing to the weapon except add a MAWL C1. I won't have passive ability, but peer/near peer firefights are not the purpose of this gun. Budget-wise, the PVS-14 with a good tube from a reputable dealer and a solid helmet/mount setup are likely the way I'll go. A friend of mine also recommended a refurb ANVIS 9. Any reason not to go that route for $4500ish? Wearing a PVS-14 isn't as bad as covering one eye. You still see a little bit from your unaided eye and your brain can mesh the two fairly well. I don't do any night driving as I'm always in the passenger seat, but I'd say about 40% of my drivers have preferred using a PVS-7 for light coming into both eyes. Myself and the other 60% of guys prefer the PVS-14. I've never gotten a headache from the PVS-14, but I definitely have from neck strain from a heavy helmet. I wear them at work, sometimes all night. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 2:30:56 AM EDT
[#19]
doubletap
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Posted: 3/27/2020 2:46:40 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wearing a PVS-14 isn't as bad as covering one eye. You still see a little bit from your unaided eye and your brain can mesh the two fairly well. I don't do any night driving as I'm always in the passenger seat, but I'd say about 40% of my drivers have preferred using a PVS-7 for light coming into both eyes. Myself and the other 60% of guys prefer the PVS-14. I've never gotten a headache from the PVS-14, but I definitely have from neck strain from a heavy helmet. I wear them at work, sometimes all night. Thanks. I'm pretty decided on going PVS14. This is as much as a "hobby/hiking/stargazing" setup as it is a tactical one, for me. I will likely use the C1 mount to offset a RDS and buy a Modlite IR head. Later, if I am so inclined, a MAWLC1. Although something like this is kinda tempting, and upgrade the gun later? https://www.nightvision4less.com/rnvg-15-photonis-4g-echo-unfilmed-white-phosphor-night-vision-goggle-autogated-hs.aspx |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 7:51:58 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks. I'm pretty decided on going PVS14. This is as much as a "hobby/hiking/stargazing" setup as it is a tactical one, for me. I will likely use the C1 mount to offset a RDS and buy a Modlite IR head. Later, if I am so inclined, a MAWLC1. Although something like this is kinda tempting, and upgrade the gun later? https://www.nightvision4less.com/rnvg-15-photonis-4g-echo-unfilmed-white-phosphor-night-vision-goggle-autogated-hs.aspx Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wearing a PVS-14 isn't as bad as covering one eye. You still see a little bit from your unaided eye and your brain can mesh the two fairly well. I don't do any night driving as I'm always in the passenger seat, but I'd say about 40% of my drivers have preferred using a PVS-7 for light coming into both eyes. Myself and the other 60% of guys prefer the PVS-14. I've never gotten a headache from the PVS-14, but I definitely have from neck strain from a heavy helmet. I wear them at work, sometimes all night. Thanks. I'm pretty decided on going PVS14. This is as much as a "hobby/hiking/stargazing" setup as it is a tactical one, for me. I will likely use the C1 mount to offset a RDS and buy a Modlite IR head. Later, if I am so inclined, a MAWLC1. Although something like this is kinda tempting, and upgrade the gun later? https://www.nightvision4less.com/rnvg-15-photonis-4g-echo-unfilmed-white-phosphor-night-vision-goggle-autogated-hs.aspx Unless I’m missing something that is over 1k more than I’ve seen photonis echo RNVG’s elsewhere. You could get a RNVG with nice gen3 tubes for that money. Personally I’d check night goggles(better warranty I think) or night vision incorporated. I believe the ECHO tubes are the lesser of the photonis tubes IIRC. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 11:02:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks. I'm pretty decided on going PVS14. This is as much as a "hobby/hiking/stargazing" setup as it is a tactical one, for me. I will likely use the C1 mount to offset a RDS and buy a Modlite IR head. Later, if I am so inclined, a MAWLC1. Although something like this is kinda tempting, and upgrade the gun later? https://www.nightvision4less.com/rnvg-15-photonis-4g-echo-unfilmed-white-phosphor-night-vision-goggle-autogated-hs.aspx Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wearing a PVS-14 isn't as bad as covering one eye. You still see a little bit from your unaided eye and your brain can mesh the two fairly well. I don't do any night driving as I'm always in the passenger seat, but I'd say about 40% of my drivers have preferred using a PVS-7 for light coming into both eyes. Myself and the other 60% of guys prefer the PVS-14. I've never gotten a headache from the PVS-14, but I definitely have from neck strain from a heavy helmet. I wear them at work, sometimes all night. Thanks. I'm pretty decided on going PVS14. This is as much as a "hobby/hiking/stargazing" setup as it is a tactical one, for me. I will likely use the C1 mount to offset a RDS and buy a Modlite IR head. Later, if I am so inclined, a MAWLC1. Although something like this is kinda tempting, and upgrade the gun later? https://www.nightvision4less.com/rnvg-15-photonis-4g-echo-unfilmed-white-phosphor-night-vision-goggle-autogated-hs.aspx NightGoggles has the Echo PVS-14's the lowest price we've seen at $2540.00 for white and $2514 for green. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 11:06:00 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NightGoggles has the Echo PVS-14's the lowest price we've seen at $2540.00 for white and $2514 for green. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wearing a PVS-14 isn't as bad as covering one eye. You still see a little bit from your unaided eye and your brain can mesh the two fairly well. I don't do any night driving as I'm always in the passenger seat, but I'd say about 40% of my drivers have preferred using a PVS-7 for light coming into both eyes. Myself and the other 60% of guys prefer the PVS-14. I've never gotten a headache from the PVS-14, but I definitely have from neck strain from a heavy helmet. I wear them at work, sometimes all night. Thanks. I'm pretty decided on going PVS14. This is as much as a "hobby/hiking/stargazing" setup as it is a tactical one, for me. I will likely use the C1 mount to offset a RDS and buy a Modlite IR head. Later, if I am so inclined, a MAWLC1. Although something like this is kinda tempting, and upgrade the gun later? https://www.nightvision4less.com/rnvg-15-photonis-4g-echo-unfilmed-white-phosphor-night-vision-goggle-autogated-hs.aspx NightGoggles has the Echo PVS-14's the lowest price we've seen at $2540.00 for white and $2514 for green. Night goggles likely has a better warranty as well. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 11:15:12 AM EDT
[#24]
I have it in my head that "I need unfilmed because the filmed are fragile and have less shelf life" (maybe shelf life doesn't matter functionally, but if I flip them at any point later, it bares considering).
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Posted: 3/27/2020 11:22:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have it in my head that "I need unfilmed because the filmed are fragile and have less shelf life" (maybe shelf life doesn't matter functionally, but if I flip them at any point later, it bares considering). Quote HistoryQuoted: I have it in my head that "I need unfilmed because the filmed are fragile and have less shelf life" (maybe shelf life doesn't matter functionally, but if I flip them at any point later, it bares considering). I don't think anyone stated that. I think your confused with the Photonis tubes which are a Gen 2 tube. I inquired about this some time back and here is the reply- The question was asked are the Photonis tube "filmless" No Photonis does not categorize their tubes that way that is a US standard. Here is the response I received from Photonis a while back when I asked that question. “ Hi Michael. All of our tube have a proprietary ion barrier or film. The thin film, film less or filmed has really only been used by the US manufacturers. Our tubes feature an ion barrier that allows for very low Halo and pretext the MCP to preserve tube life. “ |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 6:30:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think anyone stated that. I think your confused with the Photonis tubes which are a Gen 2 tube. I inquired about this some time back and here is the reply- So a Gen3 green film tube is just as long-lasting and just as durable as a Gen3 WP unfilmed tube? |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 6:48:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So a Gen3 green film tube is just as long-lasting and just as durable as a Gen3 WP unfilmed tube? Essentially yes. Using them as a hobbyist and head mounted you won't be able to discern a difference in life between the two. If you use up either of them you'll have used them enough that the cost to replace won't bother you. I'd get the best tube you can afford. Not only will it keep you happy but in the event you sell it'll keep its resale value. On the other side of that coin, any tube is better than no tube and you can get into a lower-spec or blem GP tube for much less money than filmless WP. You'll need to sort out priorities as far as use and price go and how that balances out for you. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 6:54:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Essentially yes. Using them as a hobbyist and head mounted you won't be able to discern a difference in life between the two. If you use up either of them you'll have used them enough that the cost to replace won't bother you. I'd get the best tube you can afford. Not only will it keep you happy but in the event you sell it'll keep its resale value. On the other side of that coin, any tube is better than no tube and you can get into a lower-spec or blem GP tube for much less money than filmless WP. You'll need to sort out priorities as far as use and price go and how that balances out for you. I learned a thing there, ty! I was under the impression that NVD tubes degraded "sitting on the shelf" whether used or not, with the filmed variety, but not with the filmless. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 6:57:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I learned a thing there, ty! I was under the impression that NVD tubes degraded "sitting on the shelf" whether used or not, with the filmed variety, but not with the filmless. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Essentially yes. Using them as a hobbyist and head mounted you won't be able to discern a difference in life between the two. If you use up either of them you'll have used them enough that the cost to replace won't bother you. I'd get the best tube you can afford. Not only will it keep you happy but in the event you sell it'll keep its resale value. On the other side of that coin, any tube is better than no tube and you can get into a lower-spec or blem GP tube for much less money than filmless WP. You'll need to sort out priorities as far as use and price go and how that balances out for you. I learned a thing there, ty! I was under the impression that NVD tubes degraded "sitting on the shelf" whether used or not, with the filmed variety, but not with the filmless. I won't pretend to be an expert. I don't think they degrade near as much as you are worried about, if at all. If they do, its slow enough that by the time they are worn out they are also going to be technologically obsolete and of no real value anyway. Buy some NODs, don't overthink it. They are cool. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 6:59:13 AM EDT
[#30]
Thanks, all for the info! I have enough data now that I feel capable of an informed decision. Now it's just waiting on finances, and will update or start new thread if this one is archived, at that time. Again, thankyou for all of the input!
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Posted: 5/27/2020 7:56:49 PM EDT
[#31]
My stock market choices are following my prediction models, and it has me coming back to this thread.
I've done a lot of thinking on NODs as well as my past purchases. Everyone has told me RNVG is the path I'm seeking, for best performance. However, my biggest fear at this point is dropping $10k on a NOD setup, loving the hell out of it for 2-3mo, and then it gathering dust. I do not use NODs professionally, as you might have guessed, so nothing but extremis, or sheer hobby, will see me don them. I have a lot of friends who served in the early stages of GWOT who used pvs14 for driving, everything. PVS14 gets you in the game and is fun. While binos seem the way to go, would a pvs14 omni8 WP filmless and mawl c1 disappoint a guy or give up a ton? |
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Posted: 5/27/2020 8:21:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My stock market choices are following my prediction models, and it has me coming back to this thread. I've done a lot of thinking on NODs as well as my past purchases. Everyone has told me RNVG is the path I'm seeking, for best performance. However, my biggest fear at this point is dropping $10k on a NOD setup, loving the hell out of it for 2-3mo, and then it gathering dust. I do not use NODs professionally, as you might have guessed, so nothing but extremis, or sheer hobby, will see me don them. I have a lot of friends who served in the early stages of GWOT who used pvs14 for driving, everything. PVS14 gets you in the game and is fun. While binos seem the way to go, would a pvs14 omni8 WP filmless and mawl c1 disappoint a guy or give up a ton? Nothing wrong with the filmless 14... but you will always have a burning for duals. Personally for the $$ I’d rather have a rnvg or bnvd with some good spec GP tubes than a filmless wp 14. Nvd - Bnvd-sg hp+ GP can be had for about 6500. Rnvg with good GP tubes in the mid 5k range. I’d opt for a perst over a mawl. |
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Posted: 5/27/2020 10:02:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nothing wrong with the filmless 14... but you will always have a burning for duals. Personally for the $$ I’d rather have a rnvg or bnvd with some good spec GP tubes than a filmless wp 14. Nvd - Bnvd-sg hp+ GP can be had for about 6500. Rnvg with good GP tubes in the mid 5k range. I’d opt for a perst over a mawl. Link to those duals (5500 rnvg)? Why perst? |
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Posted: 5/27/2020 10:24:45 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:While binos seem the way to go, would a pvs14 omni8 WP filmless and mawl c1 disappoint a guy or give up a ton? Give up a ton? Depends on what you’re doing, but with enough and proper training? But probably not really. Do binos have advantages that can give you a performance edge at an equal level of skill/proficiency/training? Sure, and given the choice, I’d always pick binos. But you can still do a hell of a lot with a PVS-14 and a lot of people have, myself included. Now, as to whether you’ll be disappointed? That depends on you. Are you the type of guy that can be content with just a PVS-14 versus a binocular? Or will it continue to eat at you until you ultimately end up getting what you want? I can tell you for me it was the latter, and look where we are now... Sometimes it comes down to what we need. Other times it comes down to what we want. Sometimes it ends up being cheaper and easier to simply get what you want from the beginning than trying to convince yourself you’ll be okay with something less. ~Augee |
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Posted: 5/27/2020 10:39:52 PM EDT
[#35]
There’s a set of Mod 3’s in the EE right now for $4500 asking. Tubes aren’t as good as L3 filmless WP, and would prefer the RNVG housing, but at half the price you still get into duals.
I owned a MAWL at one time, and I’m honestly not a fan. It’s illuminator is exactly what it should be, but it lacks adaptability. What I mean by that, is many times the laser is over powered by the illuminator and that makes the laser extremely hard to pick up. At the price point they sell at, I can have better. He recommended the PERST because it’s a full power unit and you avoid all that bs. |
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Posted: 5/27/2020 10:41:03 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Give up a ton? Depends on what you’re doing, but with enough and proper training? But probably not really. Do binos have advantages that can give you a performance edge at an equal level of skill/proficiency/training? Sure, and given the choice, I’d always pick binos. But you can still do a hell of a lot with a PVS-14 and a lot of people have, myself included. Now, as to whether you’ll be disappointed? That depends on you. Are you the type of guy that can be content with just a PVS-14 versus a binocular? Or will it continue to eat at you until you ultimately end up getting what you want? I can tell you for me it was the latter, and look where we are now... Sometimes it comes down to what we need. Other times it comes down to what we want. Sometimes it ends up being cheaper and easier to simply get what you want from the beginning than trying to convince yourself you’ll be okay with something less. ~Augee I bet so many wives would put a hit out on you if they knew you were the guy enabling all these high dollar NV purchases  |
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Posted: 5/27/2020 10:56:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet so many wives would put a hit out on you if they knew you were the guy enabling all these high dollar NV purchases My girlfriend is actually a huge fan. Checks my stocks often, lol! So far I'm up 130% or something since I started this thread. I could buy pvs14 nonWP and mawl cash today off my $2625 invested. I obviously won't, as that's shorting and I'd rather have more money and options than less, but I am looking at things more, now. I just worry I'd enjoy binos and then mothball em. I have so many cool toys I've done that with from a c6 z06 to a m4 sbs to 762 socom cans I do t even have guns for anymore. I'm trying to live smarter, lol! |
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Posted: 5/27/2020 10:58:40 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s a set of Mod 3’s in the EE right now for $4500 asking. Tubes aren’t as good as L3 filmless WP, and would prefer the RNVG housing, but at half the price you still get into duals. I owned a MAWL at one time, and I’m honestly not a fan. It’s illuminator is exactly what it should be, but it lacks adaptability. What I mean by that, is many times the laser is over powered by the illuminator and that makes the laser extremely hard to pick up. At the price point they sell at, I can have better. He recommended the PERST because it’s a full power unit and you avoid all that bs. Is there an American equivalent? Dbal D2 isnt Russian and gets good reviews? Hell, I may just go passive only with Eotech and magnifier and a 940 head on my Modlite for dark dark. |
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Posted: 5/27/2020 11:00:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: However, my biggest fear at this point is dropping $10k on a NOD setup, loving the hell out of it for 2-3mo, and then it gathering dust. Quote HistoryQuoted: However, my biggest fear at this point is dropping $10k on a NOD setup, loving the hell out of it for 2-3mo, and then it gathering dust. This is why I say pvs-7 for a good price, less invested but work well. You can do a "new" -7 for about 1400 with a new -7 housing and a tube from derek iirc . there is less buyers remorse at 1400 than 3k. Quoted: would a pvs14 omni8 WP filmless and mawl c1 disappoint a guy or give up a ton? Not at all but a mawl is 3k+, a perst for 1 K will do for a lot less. It wontbe as fancy or high speed thou. |
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Posted: 5/27/2020 11:10:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Looks like mawl went up. I thought 2500. Anyway, I see what was said. It does overpower some. Not a fan of that. Still, horror stories about the perst, and no recourse.
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Posted: 5/27/2020 11:33:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Dot brightness versus illuminator is subjective, but I’ve never felt that it was a major problem with the MAWL-C1+, nor do I really recall hearing of anyone in any of our training classes or any other settings where it’s been a problem—usually if there’s an issue, it’s poor performance of other Class 1 illuminators, especially when we go to longer range targets and barricades.
As far as illuminator performance in a Class 1 package goes IMHO, it can’t be beat. An oft forgotten fact is that other lasers that compete at the same level (all of the rest of them still Class IIIB-only) that compete with the MAWL-DA/X1 such as the LA-5B, RAID-X, and NGAL are all significantly more expensive even to qualified buyers, the MAWL just happens to be the only one available at the moment in a Class 1 configuration. Also, the margins on the MAWL for dealers is dogshit for anyone that that might matter to, it would be much more profitable for me to “sell you” on something else. Regardless of what you go with, I do recommend having an IR laser, even if you are going to set your rifle up for passive NV use—there are simply some situations where the IR laser is flat out better, and I say this as someone who has spent a lot of time shooting passive and in many cases still prefer to do so as a primary firing solution. I would still never give up the IR laser. ~Augee |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 6:49:31 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dot brightness versus illuminator is subjective, but I’ve never felt that it was a major problem with the MAWL-C1+, nor do I really recall hearing of anyone in any of our training classes or any other settings where it’s been a problem—usually if there’s an issue, it’s poor performance of other Class 1 illuminators, especially when we go to longer range targets and barricades. Quote HistoryQuoted: Dot brightness versus illuminator is subjective, but I’ve never felt that it was a major problem with the MAWL-C1+, nor do I really recall hearing of anyone in any of our training classes or any other settings where it’s been a problem—usually if there’s an issue, it’s poor performance of other Class 1 illuminators, especially when we go to longer range targets and barricades. Your opinion is also subjective. You’re also sighting people who aren’t here (who’s opinions are also subjective) to weigh in on the matter. And that’s supposed to give your opinion more credibility? The high setting on the MAWL illuminator washes out the dot badly. I know I’m not the only one this happens to because we just went through this a few weeks ago. Might as well take the T out of TNVC or kiss that hog goodbye if you can’t make out the dot well enough to get a shot off. Quoted: As far as illuminator performance in a Class 1 package goes IMHO, it can’t be beat. An oft forgotten fact is that other lasers that compete at the same level (all of the rest of them still Class IIIB-only) that compete with the MAWL-DA/X1 such as the LA-5B, RAID-X, and NGAL are all significantly more expensive even to qualified buyers, the MAWL just happens to be the only one available at the moment in a Class 1 configuration. Also, the margins on the MAWL for dealers is dogshit for anyone that that might matter to, it would be much more profitable for me to “sell you” on something else. Regardless of what you go with, I do recommend having an IR laser, even if you are going to set your rifle up for passive NV use—there are simply some situations where the IR laser is flat out better, and I say this as someone who has spent a lot of time shooting passive and in many cases still prefer to do so as a primary firing solution. I would still never give up the IR laser. ~Augee Agreed. For a class 1 laser, it is king. The fact it can even be compared to full powered stuff is pretty remarkable. The only problem is, class 3 lasers are readily available, and the MAWL C’s advantage over other class 1 lasers disappears when side by side with class 3 lasers. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 6:59:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there an American equivalent? Dbal D2 isnt Russian and gets good reviews? Hell, I may just go passive only with Eotech and magnifier and a 940 head on my Modlite for dark dark. American equivalents would primarily be the full power versions of the PEQ 15, and the DBAL A2. The D2 wouldn’t fit in that group because it’s not a full power unit and it’s illuminator is LED based, not laser based. I would highly recommend having both a IR laser and Illuminator on the rifle. You can use passive, but it’s not ideal to have that as your only option. Concentrate on getting the night vision squared away first. There’s a lot that goes into making everything adapted to the night, but that’s the key element. It’s best to take this in small bites, as opposed to big gulps. We’ll help you sort out the rest after |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 7:38:19 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your opinion is also subjective. You’re also sighting people who aren’t here (who’s opinions are also subjective) to weigh in on the matter. And that’s supposed to give your opinion more credibility? The high setting on the MAWL illuminator washes out the dot badly. I know I’m not the only one this happens to because we just went through this a few weeks ago. Might as well take the T out of TNVC or kiss that hog goodbye if you can’t make out the dot well enough to get a shot off. Agreed. For a class 1 laser, it is king. The fact it can even be compared to full powered stuff is pretty remarkable. The only problem is, class 3 lasers are readily available, and the MAWL C’s advantage over other class 1 lasers disappears when side by side with class 3 lasers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Dot brightness versus illuminator is subjective, but I’ve never felt that it was a major problem with the MAWL-C1+, nor do I really recall hearing of anyone in any of our training classes or any other settings where it’s been a problem—usually if there’s an issue, it’s poor performance of other Class 1 illuminators, especially when we go to longer range targets and barricades. Your opinion is also subjective. You’re also sighting people who aren’t here (who’s opinions are also subjective) to weigh in on the matter. And that’s supposed to give your opinion more credibility? The high setting on the MAWL illuminator washes out the dot badly. I know I’m not the only one this happens to because we just went through this a few weeks ago. Might as well take the T out of TNVC or kiss that hog goodbye if you can’t make out the dot well enough to get a shot off. Quoted: As far as illuminator performance in a Class 1 package goes IMHO, it can’t be beat. An oft forgotten fact is that other lasers that compete at the same level (all of the rest of them still Class IIIB-only) that compete with the MAWL-DA/X1 such as the LA-5B, RAID-X, and NGAL are all significantly more expensive even to qualified buyers, the MAWL just happens to be the only one available at the moment in a Class 1 configuration. Also, the margins on the MAWL for dealers is dogshit for anyone that that might matter to, it would be much more profitable for me to “sell you” on something else. Regardless of what you go with, I do recommend having an IR laser, even if you are going to set your rifle up for passive NV use—there are simply some situations where the IR laser is flat out better, and I say this as someone who has spent a lot of time shooting passive and in many cases still prefer to do so as a primary firing solution. I would still never give up the IR laser. ~Augee Agreed. For a class 1 laser, it is king. The fact it can even be compared to full powered stuff is pretty remarkable. The only problem is, class 3 lasers are readily available, and the MAWL C’s advantage over other class 1 lasers disappears when side by side with class 3 lasers. His opinion is subjective, but based on real world experience utilizing all of this gear. Not just plinking hogs in your grand pappys feild. Photonic barriers are a thing that most hunters won’t experience out in the boonies. Leading a Platoon (S) of Troops on missions all the while being a well regarded NV SME brings quite a bit of clout to the table. Every time you talk about the MAWL it gives me cancer, your findings couldn’t be further from the truth. Try using a Q-tip and cleaning off the emitter because I have zero problem picking up the MAWL dot at long ranges in every mode.  |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 8:10:53 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Link to those duals (5500 rnvg)? Why perst? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nothing wrong with the filmless 14... but you will always have a burning for duals. Personally for the $$ I’d rather have a rnvg or bnvd with some good spec GP tubes than a filmless wp 14. Nvd - Bnvd-sg hp+ GP can be had for about 6500. Rnvg with good GP tubes in the mid 5k range. I’d opt for a perst over a mawl. Link to those duals (5500 rnvg)? Why perst? Don’t have any links for you, but there are plenty of nvg dealers that have rnvg Gp units for mid 5’s and less than 6k. Some are on the gram and some are just small mostly unknown dealers that don’t have prices listed or even have functioning websites. I just like full power lasers and find the quality of the Perst is very good and a little better than some of the Steiner products I’ve owned. If you are dead set on spending 2k on a ir aiming device, I’d just buy a full power peq or dbal over a mawl. ETA: someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but regardless of the marketing stories, the mawl that is sold to the American public is a neutered version of the full power mawl that’s available to the .mil and other .gov entities. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 8:22:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Nice cheerleading skills Sam. Do you guys ever get tired of huffing each other’s farts? My opinion is mine. His is his. No one asked you
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Posted: 5/28/2020 8:28:56 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice cheerleading skills Sam. Do you guys ever get tired of huffing each other’s farts? My opinion is mine. His is his. No one asked you Just because you have an opinion doesn’t mean it’s value added. Actually plenty of people (hundreds of people) have asked me for my opinion of the various models of the MAWL, the reason the X-1 is in the Air Force has my finger prints all over it, and the reason it is widely fielded in some decent numbers is due in large part to the training I do at Greenline Tactical in spite of its cost. The OP specifically asked about the MAWL, or did you Miss that part? |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 8:44:07 AM EDT
[#48]
I specifically gave my opinion on the MAWL. Did you miss that part? Or just rush to echo your coworker and engage brain after? This is a technical forum. I’ve spotted a weakness in a products design and I’ll give my feedback on it regardless if you like it or not.
Anyone want to lend me a MAWL for a little photo shoot? I sold mine and I’m inclined to show photographic evidence of exactly what I’m talking about |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 8:56:48 AM EDT
[#49]
I’m pointing out the fact you called my coworkers credibility into question, I think missed my point entirely.
At TNVC we are a team and support each other, collectively we have a vast knowledge base to fall back on based on actual end user experience both mil/LE and hunting, we are also end users just like our customers. I have have yet to experience the issue you are pointing out and I probably have the largest collection of MAWLs in private hands and have looked at every single one of mine and none of them experience this with any NV system I own and I own more than your average rifle platoon in the US Army. Essentially I’m calling into question your credibility when it comes to the MAWL. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 9:15:05 AM EDT
[#50]
@JohnDough I'm new to the NV stuff. I was recently in a similar position as you. I had some cash I had saved specifically for NV. I didn't know how deep I really wanted to go or how much I'd use it. I'm a recreational user that will completely admit my NV is more of a toy than a tool. I see it as useful for protecting my mini-farm (garden, few chickens, and a pig) from coyotes at night, but in my area we’re seeing more and more people get into NV so there are more local night matches where folks can come compete together.
Sure, I’d love to jump down the hole and buy WP filmless RNVGs and a MAWL, but I don’t really know how often NV will get used. It’s easy to think that I’ll use them every other day, but in reality I know that won’t happen. I’m sure I’ll want binos down the road, but I figured I’d start with a ‘budget’ PVS14. The PVS14 can be used for a spare. Most likely no matter where you go with NV you’ll have lots of people wanting to look through them. It’s nice to have a spare rig. I’d rather have a cheaper PVS14 and fund a decent set of RNVGs down the road. I picked up a TNVC 3G Green PVS14. Seems like a decent place to start. The other thing is that the used NV market is strong right now. You can turn around and sell your parts if you end up upgrading without taking too much of a loss. Regardless of what you choose, buy from a reputable vendor. More and more shady stuff keeps coming up with NV vendors. Look at the vendors helping you out on this forum, that’s taking time out of their day to help random folks like us on the internet. |
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