User Panel
Quoted: +1000 for the E-Coti avaialbility, it has nothing to do with commercial sales like that to restrict to generate hype that has been an internet rumor at times. We begged borrowed and stole to get the recent orders filled and it was a test of patience to say the least. And yes before someone brings up the repeated pay before you receive (for their own sales hype and dagger throws ) ....ALL customers were asked repeatedly not to pay and were asked REPEATEDLY if they wanted their monies returned. Feel free to ask the OP on this thread how many times we pestered him and the rest to return monies and the amount of meetings and paperwork TNVC had to undergo several times to meet the ever changing requirements. View Quote People hate “The Man.” |
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Just messed around with this over the weekend and it is absolutely amazing. I also compared it to the COTI and to me it seemed to be a significant upgrade, about the same as jumping from gen 2 to gen 3 night vision. That might be a slight over exaggeration, but it is a very obvious difference.
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Tangentially related only, but some may or may not be aware:
The cost of the AN/PAS-29A COTI (not the E-COTI) has been reduced to $5,830 recently from $6,800 previous pricing, making the cost gap a good bit more significant than it has been previously between the COTI and E-COTI. ~Augee |
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Quoted: +1000 for the E-Coti avaialbility, it has nothing to do with commercial sales like that to restrict to generate hype that has been an internet rumor at times. We begged borrowed and stole to get the recent orders filled and it was a test of patience to say the least. And yes before someone brings up the repeated pay before you receive (for their own sales hype and dagger throws ) ....ALL customers were asked repeatedly not to pay and were asked REPEATEDLY if they wanted their monies returned. Feel free to ask the OP on this thread how many times we pestered him and the rest to return monies and the amount of meetings and paperwork TNVC had to undergo several times to meet the ever changing requirements. View Quote The e-coti was worth the NFA wait time for me as it addressed some of the issues I had with the coti,. That’s not to say the coti isn’t great, the e-coti is just better. |
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Quoted:
The e-coti was worth the NFA wait time for me as it addressed some of the issues I had with the coti,. That’s not to say the coti isn’t great, the e-coti is just better. View Quote Got to play with both in brush side by side, and show off to a bunch of folks recently. The E-Coti is definitely better with identification and the refresh rate is super nice, but both are still by far the best increase of situational awareness to NV. Ive played with a couple of other fusion systems and I think the Coti/E-Coti do a much better job of only highlighting what needs to be highlighted. Ive been recommending to everyone to get a Coti over any other thermal unless you live in complete wide open space or only do completely static shooting. City/Suburbs/Brush/Forrest/Swamp I'd take Coti/E-Coti over anything. |
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Quoted:
Yep. Well worth the wait. Thanks TNVC! Most useful and impressive piece of NV equipment I have used. Got to play with both in brush side by side, and show off to a bunch of folks recently. The E-Coti is definitely better with identification and the refresh rate is super nice, but both are still by far the best increase of situational awareness to NV. Ive played with a couple of other fusion systems and I think the Coti/E-Coti do a much better job of only highlighting what needs to be highlighted. Ive been recommending to everyone to get a Coti over any other thermal unless you live in complete wide open space or only do completely static shooting. City/Suburbs/Brush/Forrest/Swamp I'd take Coti/E-Coti over anything. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The e-coti was worth the NFA wait time for me as it addressed some of the issues I had with the coti,. That’s not to say the coti isn’t great, the e-coti is just better. Got to play with both in brush side by side, and show off to a bunch of folks recently. The E-Coti is definitely better with identification and the refresh rate is super nice, but both are still by far the best increase of situational awareness to NV. Ive played with a couple of other fusion systems and I think the Coti/E-Coti do a much better job of only highlighting what needs to be highlighted. Ive been recommending to everyone to get a Coti over any other thermal unless you live in complete wide open space or only do completely static shooting. City/Suburbs/Brush/Forrest/Swamp I'd take Coti/E-Coti over anything. |
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I don’t think anyone genuinely questions TNVC’s integrity or solvency. You’re the 800# gorilla in the market, which makes you “The Man.” People hate “The Man.” View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: +1000 for the E-Coti avaialbility, it has nothing to do with commercial sales like that to restrict to generate hype that has been an internet rumor at times. We begged borrowed and stole to get the recent orders filled and it was a test of patience to say the least. And yes before someone brings up the repeated pay before you receive (for their own sales hype and dagger throws ) ....ALL customers were asked repeatedly not to pay and were asked REPEATEDLY if they wanted their monies returned. Feel free to ask the OP on this thread how many times we pestered him and the rest to return monies and the amount of meetings and paperwork TNVC had to undergo several times to meet the ever changing requirements. People hate “The Man.” P.S., I or we ain't "da man". Just a crew who loves NV and will do anything to assist all our amazing customers. In this particular case, I knew a few of the customers beforehand...But I got to know all the rest quite well with emails and phone calls during the whole process. Seriously, I wish I could talk with every one of our valued customers each and every day but the base has grown a bit since my backyard picture taking days. |
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Quoted:
The e-coti was a wait, but TNVC was the only one who made an effort to offer it. They worked closely with me personally to fulfill my order and did indeed offer me a refund at anytime I wanted to back out. Vic made it a personal mission to see that the few orders he had were fulfilled, it was frustrating to say the least. I also spoke with optics 1 about the e-coti and and they confirmed that commercial sales where suspended do to demand. The e-coti was worth the NFA wait time for me as it addressed some of the issues I had with the coti,. That’s not to say the coti isn’t great, the e-coti is just better. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: +1000 for the E-Coti avaialbility, it has nothing to do with commercial sales like that to restrict to generate hype that has been an internet rumor at times. We begged borrowed and stole to get the recent orders filled and it was a test of patience to say the least. And yes before someone brings up the repeated pay before you receive (for their own sales hype and dagger throws ) ....ALL customers were asked repeatedly not to pay and were asked REPEATEDLY if they wanted their monies returned. Feel free to ask the OP on this thread how many times we pestered him and the rest to return monies and the amount of meetings and paperwork TNVC had to undergo several times to meet the ever changing requirements. The e-coti was worth the NFA wait time for me as it addressed some of the issues I had with the coti,. That’s not to say the coti isn’t great, the e-coti is just better. |
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I ended up ditching the windshield all together to make driving with dual helmet mounted thermals possible. Best decision I ever made! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Lol yes thanks. I may be dumb but I'm not an idiot. I drive all night with my WP NV, and scan with my Pulsar gear. Wondering how E-COTI will work with driving.t |
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Quoted: Thank you for the order and the crazy patience you had with all of this. I think I know who this is by the lengthy phone calls days and nights we had. Enjoy the gear T. View Quote |
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Just curious. Can either the coti or e-coti be used on a pvs-14? Or do they only fit duals?
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Send a great big thanks to Jaimie as well, she was great and I really appreciate all she did. You are lucky to have her as an employee. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Thank you for the order and the crazy patience you had with all of this. I think I know who this is by the lengthy phone calls days and nights we had. Enjoy the gear T. |
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https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/05/31/friday-night-lights-coti-clip-on-thermal-imager/
Good review of coti is it true the cable for remote battery is $1800! Can you make that cable somehow? Is the connector available. |
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https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/05/31/friday-night-lights-coti-clip-on-thermal-imager/ Good review of coti is it true the cable for remote battery is $1800! Can you make that cable somehow? Is the connector available. View Quote |
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Quoted: Fits PVS-14 fine. Fits most every tube. List from TNVC: PVS-7, PVS-14, PVS-15, PVS-18, PVS-23, PVS-31, PVS-22, PVS-24, PVS-26, Sentinel, DTNVG, MOD-3 My setup on MOD3 with PVS tubes: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/47980/0583EDA0-8967-4CE3-9EC3-0E393C776475-996661.jpg @loco_engineer got my COTI, this is his set up, MOD3 with ANVIS tubes: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/253448/BD128D0E-AB7C-42DB-8A52-126AE2DBB68B-992384.jpg View Quote |
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Quoted:
What is the flippy thing on the left eye? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Fits PVS-14 fine. Fits most every tube. List from TNVC: PVS-7, PVS-14, PVS-15, PVS-18, PVS-23, PVS-31, PVS-22, PVS-24, PVS-26, Sentinel, DTNVG, MOD-3 My setup on MOD3 with PVS tubes: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/47980/0583EDA0-8967-4CE3-9EC3-0E393C776475-996661.jpg @loco_engineer got my COTI, this is his set up, MOD3 with ANVIS tubes: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/253448/BD128D0E-AB7C-42DB-8A52-126AE2DBB68B-992384.jpg |
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Quoted:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/05/31/friday-night-lights-coti-clip-on-thermal-imager/ Good review of coti is it true the cable for remote battery is $1800! Can you make that cable somehow? Is the connector available. View Quote |
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Quoted:
Looks a little unwieldy, but not super light-restricting like the Tarsier. What do you think, better? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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I didn't see that on your website when I was looking at focus devices, but I could swear I saw a video you made on it. Ended up getting a tarsier (only one, have duals). I'm thinking that since I already have a device, and there's a built in illuminator to the MOD-3, it wouldn't really be worth it for one of the flippy ones?
To get back to the topic at hand, you can put me down as very interested in E-COTI if civilian sales open back up. Even though I really do need to put a hold on my toys budget :/ IIRC it was in the $7k range when you had it listed on the 'old' site? |
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Its absolutely amazing in the pine forests/ swamps around me. See all kinds of things I would never see if I stopped and scanned with handheld or weapon mounted thermal. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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https://i.imgur.com/IINotQP.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Yw02X0g.jpg Would never have seen this guy without E-COTI. Completely hidden in a spot I never would have scanned with a handheld thermal. View Quote Question: Since you are in the south you’ll probably know. Sometimes if the humidity is just right, when I exhale it can bounce off the lens covers dangling from my 31’s and fog up the eye piece for a second. Is there any issue with this thing fogging up anywhere when you breathe if the humidity is just right? |
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@TNVC
Can you guys get the cable for remote battery for coti? Price? |
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I got my e-coti on the last order. I too really appreciate Vic and the team for making it happen. I’m very glad I waited. This thing is a game changer for moving around under goggle through the woods. I’m still in the early testing stages but I have picked up many things that I would have likely missed before and they were obvious with fusion. Combined with a good longer range handheld thermal, it really is unbeatable.
Predator vision rocks. So does TNVC. They jumped through many hoops to make it happen for me. |
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We need to get together and compare notes on eCOTI vs my PSQ-20C — because this thing is flippin’ awesome!!!
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I got my e-coti on the last order. I too really appreciate Vic and the team for making it happen. I’m very glad I waited. This thing is a game changer for moving around under goggle through the woods. I’m still in the early testing stages but I have picked up many things that I would have likely missed before and they were obvious with fusion. Combined with a good longer range handheld thermal, it really is unbeatable. Predator vision rocks. So does TNVC. They jumped through many hoops to make it happen for me. View Quote |
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We need to get together and compare notes on eCOTI vs my PSQ-20C — because this thing is flippin’ awesome!!! View Quote Ive only looked through a 20 briefly, so wouldnt mind checking it out. I have used a PSQ-36 fairly extensively though and much prefer the E-COTI/ COTI on nice duals. I found the PSQ-36 did not do nearly as well of a job with with what it highlighted in any mode compared to the patrol mode of the E-COTI/ COTI. I dont know if this is a software thing or what, but I found it highlighting all kinds of useless stuff the E-COTI does not. |
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Quoted: Come on down to the next Cola Warrior! Ive only looked through a 20 briefly, so wouldnt mind checking it out. I have used a PSQ-36 fairly extensively though and much prefer the E-COTI/ COTI on nice duals. I found the PSQ-36 did not do nearly as well of a job with with what it highlighted in any mode compared to the patrol mode of the E-COTI/ COTI. I dont know if this is a software thing or what, but I found it highlighting all kinds of useless stuff the E-COTI does not. View Quote The 20C is light years better than either the 36 or the 20A/B. It’s not even close. What I also like is that while the eCOTI uses a 640 core it’s only able to use ~500px because of its circular image projection, so it can only use the smaller of the two dimensions. The 20C image area is the full 640x512 Image area overlaid via an OLED, so resolution and definition are staggering by comparison. At >200m I could tell whether or not a dude was carrying a rifle. At >100m I was detecting field mice. |
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The i2 performance of the 21 isn’t really that great. The thermal module is cool, but it’s a bit kludgy and it’s definitely not nearly as good as the one in my 20C.
However, the HUD module is seriously cool when running it off a weapon-mounted thermal. I’d say a DTNVG L3 Filmless WP with eCOTI give superior performance over the 21+Thermal Module. In fact, it’s the only thing I’ve seen that gets even close to the PSQ-20C. |
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The i2 performance of the 21 isn’t really that great. The thermal module is cool, but it’s a bit kludgy and it’s definitely not nearly as good as the one in my 20C. However, the HUD module is seriously cool when running it off a weapon-mounted thermal. I’d say a DTNVG L3 Filmless WP with eCOTI give superior performance over the 21+Thermal Module. In fact, it’s the only thing I’ve seen that gets even close to the PSQ-20C. View Quote The sentinels are filmess l3 green tubes. |
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Quoted: OK well.. seeing as I didn't say anything about a DTNVG with WP tubes... thanks for the comment. The sentinels are filmess l3 green tubes. View Quote If it’s Sentinels + COTI, I’d probably go 22+Thermal HUD. If you have a line on an eCOTI, I’d go that route. |
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The i2 performance of the 21 isn’t really that great. The thermal module is cool, but it’s a bit kludgy and it’s definitely not nearly as good as the one in my 20C. However, the HUD module is seriously cool when running it off a weapon-mounted thermal. I’d say a DTNVG L3 Filmless WP with eCOTI give superior performance over the 21+Thermal Module. In fact, it’s the only thing I’ve seen that gets even close to the PSQ-20C. View Quote |
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I'm not a fan of the PVS-21s really at all, except for some very very specific applications.
They're novel and interesting, but don't really do much that traditional goggles don't in "normal" use that justifies their weight, expense, and complexity, and in many cases, you can get much better performing tubes in a traditional goggle. The concept of fusion systems is an interesting one in and that while different people may see the "same" thing, there can be a lot of differences in the scope of use and utility between different people, especially with different missions. I would go Sentinels (or DTNVGs or RNVGs) with COTI or E-COTI (if you can get one) over the PVS-21 + thermal module any day--the advantage, IMHO, of the COTI and E-COTI are the compact, lightweight, easily removable nature of those devices. For me, the thermal fusion is a situational awareness tool that augments maneuver, not a decisive identification tool, and to that end, while I would absolutely say E-COTI over COTI if you have access to and can afford one, but I also do not feel substantially limited by the COTI's somewhat reduced performance (it's also $2,000 less expensive...)--to me, the biggest performance benefit of the E-COTI is the ability to link it into C4ISR networks for mission command & control, but again, if you don't have access to these networks and applications, then it is somewhat of a moot point. ~Augee |
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I’ll toss my generally worthless $0.02 in with Augee’s expertly written opinion.
I’d just go one step farther and state, unequivocally, that fusion is the future. It’s more revolution than evolution. It literally brings a level of awareness that simply does not exist with “plain” i2 — regardless of how good your tubes are. The things I can spot lumbering around at night with the 20C is astonishing. Things I’d simply never know were there with my dual 72LP L3 WP DTNVGs no matter how hard I look. And the versatility of a true fusion system trumps a COTI for the mere fact that I can go pure thermal at the flick of a switch, or dim the i2 tube down to nothing with dominant 640 thermal that you can effectively use an IR laser with, which is a neat trick. Fusion is king. It’s a brave new world. |
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Quoted:
I’ll toss my generally worthless $0.02 in with Augee’s expertly written opinion. I’d just go one step farther and state, unequivocally, that fusion is the future. It’s more revolution than evolution. It literally brings a level of awareness that simply does not exist with “plain” i2 — regardless of how good your tubes are. The things I can spot lumbering around at night with the 20C is astonishing. Things I’d simply never know were there with my dual 72LP L3 WP DTNVGs no matter how hard I look. And the versatility of a true fusion system trumps a COTI for the mere fact that I can go pure thermal at the flick of a switch, or dim the i2 tube down to nothing with dominant 640 thermal that you can effectively use an IR laser with, which is a neat trick. Fusion is king. It’s a brave new world. View Quote |
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FWIW, the whole ENVG system and program kind of pisses me off.
There are definitely some benefits to the dedicated fused system, but the ENVGs are fat pig systems to begin with--the ENVG-B looks like it's a little more streamlined (ironic), but the PSQ-20 family is just chunky, and the system orientation is not my favorite, you shouldn't be able to reach your NVG with your tongue... The thermal is also a power-eater, so that's something to consider as well, with a COTI system you can have separate power supplies so your thermal never accidentally kills your NV. The ENVG-B fixes some of the form factor issues, though not really the power issue, plus... they're binos, so I naturally like them better , but the biggest thing that really annoys me is the stupid ass proprietary interface and all the proprietary attachments, you need a new mount, new shroud (oh by the way, basically only designed according to the Army 1-Hole pattern and/or a ratchet strap design), you can't mount one to a Bump helmet with a molded in shroud, and attaching them to any other helmet at very least requires the removal of the existing "universal" shroud. The ridiculousness of it all is that they could have very easily developed a "hot" dovetail shoe and mount that was backwards compatible with existing shrouds and mounts (think a powered G24 that you can still attach "normal" NVDs to)--certain USASOC elements went even simpler with the FGE, simply using the ANVIS-format mount, but no... we're stuck with a chunky, weird, INVG-style proprietary mount and a chunky device that basically wants to sit in your mouth in the prone that's basically only compatible with a one-hole ACH... Rant off... Fusion is great, and the PSQ-20 ENVG family has some cool capabilities and performance, but I am decidedly less than pleased with the device itself and the choices that were made in designing it. For the money, they could have just bought everyone PVS-31s and COTIs like the Marines are doing and have been done with it... ~Augee |
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My ENVG-III uses a modified G24L mount. It’s also a LOT smaller and lighter than previous 20A/B units, as it uses the BAE 12um core.
That said, it still requires a single-hole ballistic helmet, which sucks, but it’s a worthwhile trade off. The unity thermal performance alone is on par with the SkeetIRx. We need to get together and ball. |
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Quoted:
FWIW, the whole ENVG system and program kind of pisses me off. There are definitely some benefits to the dedicated fused system, but the ENVGs are fat pig systems to begin with--the ENVG-B looks like it's a little more streamlined (ironic), but the PSQ-20 family is just chunky, and the system orientation is not my favorite, you shouldn't be able to reach your NVG with your tongue... The thermal is also a power-eater, so that's something to consider as well, with a COTI system you can have separate power supplies so your thermal never accidentally kills your NV. The ENVG-B fixes some of the form factor issues, though not really the power issue, plus... they're binos, so I naturally like them better , but the biggest thing that really annoys me is the stupid ass proprietary interface and all the proprietary attachments, you need a new mount, new shroud (oh by the way, basically only designed according to the Army 1-Hole pattern and/or a ratchet strap design), you can't mount one to a Bump helmet with a molded in shroud, and attaching them to any other helmet at very least requires the removal of the existing "universal" shroud. The ridiculousness of it all is that they could have very easily developed a "hot" dovetail shoe and mount that was backwards compatible with existing shrouds and mounts (think a powered G24 that you can still attach "normal" NVDs to)--certain USASOC elements went even simpler with the FGE, simply using the ANVIS-format mount, but no... we're stuck with a chunky, weird, INVG-style proprietary mount and a chunky device that basically wants to sit in your mouth in the prone that's basically only compatible with a one-hole ACH... Rant off... Fusion is great, and the PSQ-20 ENVG family has some cool capabilities and performance, but I am decidedly less than pleased with the device itself and the choices that were made in designing it. For the money, they could have just bought everyone PVS-31s and COTIs like the Marines are doing and have been done with it... ~Augee View Quote |
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Yeah, the mount is still 100% proprietary and not compatible with anything else. I certainly see your points, but for a low speed ‘yote assassin like myself none of that matters. It would be great to be able to swap between NODs on the same helmet, but I don’t have too much call for that, personally, so it’s a non-issue.
For the curious, I managed to snag a never-MIL’d pre-release engineering sample for an egregious price. I had one of my L3 UF WP tubes swapped into the unit. To my understanding, there are fewer than a half-dozen of these things roaming the plains. Quite frankly, they’re awesome. Not perfect, but damn awesome nonetheless. |
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Quoted: Fits PVS-14 fine. Fits most every tube. List from TNVC: PVS-7, PVS-14, PVS-15, PVS-18, PVS-23, PVS-31, PVS-22, PVS-24, PVS-26, Sentinel, DTNVG, MOD-3 My setup on MOD3 with PVS tubes: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/47980/0583EDA0-8967-4CE3-9EC3-0E393C776475-996661.jpg @loco_engineer got my COTI, this is his set up, MOD3 with ANVIS tubes: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/253448/BD128D0E-AB7C-42DB-8A52-126AE2DBB68B-992384.jpg View Quote |
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