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Posted: 10/6/2018 1:30:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
Important to note...this is the old eForms guide. While most of it is still accurate, there is some slightly different formatting. They've also added a Responsible Persons section and a CLEO section. I put a couple new screen shots here: click for new sections
. . . . Alternate Title: EFORMS for Dummies (written by one) ETA 11/11/14: Silencer Shop has a created a YouTube video that walks you through the process. If you prefer to watch instead of read, here is a post I made explaining some of the differences plus a link to the video. ETA 2/8/16: SilencerShop created a new version of their video to fix a couple things. The new version can be viewed here. With all the discussion on AR15.com about the faster turnaround time (at least so far) of using the EFORMS system, there are more and more questions each day. I filled out a couple in December and the only real guide I found was the one on NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog by David M Goldman. He’s done a great job explaining a lot of things about NFA, and has a couple screen shots included. However, there are still a lot of questions left to be answered. (He also says it's possible to file multiple items on one application, which is not true.). I filled out one more today and decided to take some more screen shots and add some verbiage to try and ease anybody’s nerves that hasn’t yet used EFORMS. The ATF also released an EForms 101 document in December 2013...you're welcome to read through it as well. You can find it here, on Goldman's GunTrustLawyer site. There's also an EForms bulletin that I used a couple sections of in screen shots throughout this guide, and you can see it here, on John Pierce's website. I will first say that I haven’t actually had the application done during the creation of this guide approved, so there’s no guarantee I’ve done it 100% correctly (update 4/26/14: paper Form 1 approved this using the same thought process I used during the EForms application; update 5/14/14: second paper F1 approved; update 5/19/14: my first two eForms approved using this guide). However, there have been a lot of topics here that involved single items on the Form. There are quite a few sources for figuring out how to fill out a paper Form 1, and if you do that first, it won’t be any issue transferring that information onto the electronic version. The following screen shots are how I filled out an eForm 1 for an SBR, along with a couple additional notes I added. ETA: 6/4/14. The form filled out during the making of the Visual Guide has been approved. I'm now 4-for-4 getting forms approved following these steps. This is what the digital stamp looks like: 
Please note: this is the only stamp you will receive. There is not a paper copy coming in the mail with a real adhesive stamp.  Note: I want to get this in before you register, and give you an alternative solution if you already registered. When you register, there is a Title field available. Notice it's after your name. This is not a title like Mr/Mrs/Dr, rather a title like Trustee. When you sign a paper form, you sign and print as Full Name as Trustee. In EForms, you sign electronically. Box 7 shows DIGITALLY SIGNED and Box 8 shows your name as registered. If you have Trustee in the Title field, your form will include that title after it prints your name. Here's an example of what one of mine looks like: 
ETA 7/13/14: For clarification...you register as an individual that will represent the entity, using your name. You don't register as the entity itself. You will use the trust/corp name as the Licensee/Permitee (you'll see this in detail on a later screenshot). If you have already registered, you can still add a title if you choose. Simply log into EFORMS and go to the My Profile tab at the top. Then look at User Information. The Title field is right below your name. Notice that on both the Registration page and the User Information page there is not an asterisk next to the Title field. It is not required. Just like your middle initial isn't required. The trust you submit will have your name listed as Trustee. I've yet to see anybody post that they were denied because of Trustee not being present. Quite a few posted success with the Title field blank. I think it's a non-issue, but I wanted to point it out in case you wanted to use that field. ETA: I registered with my "nickname" of Greg and my last name. After I submitted my first three forms, they each had Greg Lastname in Box 8. After the third form, and reading about somebody putting their title in their profile, I went back in and changed my first name to Gregory, added a middle initial and also added Trustee as a title. The fourth form showed Gregory S Lastname, Trustee when I previewed it. The more interesting fact is my first two forms actually have my full name and title on them in the Approved status. This may have happened because it updated when status went from Submitted to Approved. Or, it may have happened because the two forms had the DRAFT watermark, and the person I contacted said they'd have to reset the forms. The only way I'll really know is if the third form comes through cleanly without the DRAFT watermark so it doesn't have to be reset. I'll check to see how my name shows up in Box 8 and update this post. (Every one of my F1s, and my one F4, all had the DRAFT watermark and had to be reset. Didn't remember to look at the 3rd one to see how my name/title appeared.)  NOTE from ATF EFORMS bulletin: An eForms industry member has brought to our attention that an important rule is missing from our password complexity rules, listed on the registration screen where you create your eForms password. The requirements are currently displayed as follows: Choose a password as per the following rules: 1. Must have at least twelve (12) characters in length. 2. Must contain at least one or more number(s) (0-9). 3. Must contain at least one or more special character(s) (!@#$%^&*(),). 4. Must contain at least one or more upper and lower case letter(s) (a-z, A-Z). The rule that is missing is: Must be no fewer than 5 alphabetic characters in your password. Please adhere to this rule when you are creating or changing your eForms passwords. Note: Thank you to the industry member who discovered and reported this problem. (the "missing rule” has caused a lot of people problems) 
ETA 2/8/16: one item to mention...notice the bullet point on the slide above that says you cannot use eForms for reactivations. That's why you're not prompted to answer the Yes/No question you're used to on a paper form. The line item (4j) will still be on your form, but it will be blank. ETA 8/28/14: uploaded a replacement slide below to add the note about the Internal Control Number 
NOTE: The ICN will also show up in the emails you receive from EFORMS. It will be in the Reference No: field, and will also be part of the filename when you receive your Approved (or Disapproved) form 
From an EForms bulletin: When an eForm 1 is submitted by a legal entity on an eForm 4 or 5, only the trust or LLC name should be entered as the applicant (Licensee/Permittee Name field on eForm 1) or as the transferee (Business Name field on eForms 4 or 5). Do not list the identification of the trustee (for example, John Doe, trustee) as part of the applicant or transferee name. The identification of the entity members will be available in the information attached, to document the entity. ETA 1/21/16: This is not new information, I've just never taken the time to add a note until now. There is a known defect in eForms that when you enter your ZIP, you sometimes cannot choose your correct county. This is mainly in situations where the ZIP spans multiple counties. It's a non-issue as far as approvals go. Simply enter your ZIP, select the City, then take whatever County it gives you. Many users have questioned the ATF on this issue, and here's one of the responses: We are aware of the glitch regarding the county and do not have the funding to address at the present time. Submit with the incorrect county and this will not impact the processing of the application in this instance. 
ETA 2/16/15: For anybody submitting a Form 1 for a suppressor, here's some info before you get to the next screenshot. I submitted six recently...but no approval to guarantee this is right. But, based on my SBR forms and a lot of input from others, it should address the questions you may have: The differences: 1. You'll use FMI as the manufacturer's code (that's listed on a slide somewhere, same thing as used with an 80% lower) 2. You'll choose Silencer from the dropdown, which will eliminate the barrel length block 3. Model is not required, but EForms forces you to choose. There's an N/A in the dropdown, which is what the dealers have put for barrel length on most of my paper F4s, so I chose that for my model. (If you want an actual model name, input whatever you want) 4. You do have to assign a serial number and choose a caliber (note: SN must have at least one numeral...it can be all numerals, or a combination of numbers/letters, but can't be all letters like a name) 5. I left the Additional Description box empty just like I did with an SBR. Everything else seems to be the same. ETA 4/17/15: all six of my stamps were approved on 4/12 using the "N/A" as model and leaving the Description box blank. I did upload a rough sketch, but many others have been approved without one. 
The wording from the EForms bulletin: The proper way to identify the manufacturer of a firearm. For those who will simply be modifying an existing weapon: If you are modifying an existing firearm, typically a standard configuration rifle into a short barreled rifle, the form requires the name of the original manufacturer of the firearm. When submitting an eForm 1, on the line item screen, a window for the entry of manufacturer is opened after clicking the Add Firearm button. At this point, the applicant would enter a short version of the manufacturer’s name to bring up a list of names for selection of the manufacturer from the list. Select the correct manufacturer and proceed to the description screen. You may note that the manufacturer code field also populates. We issue a code to a manufacturer. While the original manufacturer information is captured, the applicant is the maker and registrant for purposes of the NFA and must mark the firearm. For those who will be make their own item. (would include builds on 80% lowers) If you are creating the firearm yourself, such as a silencer or a short barreled rifle (when finishing a receiver that is not yet a firearm), there is no original manufacturer. Because of the large number of makers (which includes filings by trusts), we do not issue a specific code to each maker. Instead, we use a generic code of FMI to denote a Form 1 registration. Thus, when submitting an eForm 1 where there is no original manufacturer, on the line item screen, a window for the entry of manufacturer is opened after clicking the Add Firearm button. At this point, the applicant should click the "By Manufacturer Code’ button and enter FMI as the manufacturer code and click Verify. The applicant will then select the United States as the country of manufacture and proceed to the description screen. Please note that ‘FORM 1 REGISTRATION’ will appear as the name of the maker on the PDF of the eForm 1. Again, the applicant is the maker and registrant for purposes of the NFA and must mark the firearm. 
ETA 7/3/14: the question gets asked quite often about which caliber to use, as far as format goes. Here's a snippet from an EForms bulletin that may help: 
In addition, I want to add another note/tip/suggestion here that is mentioned in a couple of the screenshots. If you put the checkmark and enter your own information, it is helpful to add an attachment at the end of the process (when you upload your trust/corp) to explain why. Removing any confusion for the examiners will do nothing but help to speed up the process. So, if you choose a manufacturer, but then your model number isn't in the dropdown, attach a pic showing the SN and Model. If you choose a manufacturer and then a model, but your caliber doesn't show up, attach a .doc explaining that you're building the firearm with an upper chambered in ### (whatever caliber you input). NOTES: 1. barrel length includes any permanently attached muzzle device; can be found by inserting wooden dowel down barrel until it contacts closed bolt face 2. OAL is measured with collapsible stock in fully extended position 3. There have been multiple reports of all applications that used "multi" for caliber being rejected. It may have been ok years ago, but save yourself the hassle and pick a single caliber. Do not use "multi" or try and list multiple calibers. LET ME REPEAT THIS...DO NOT SELECT MULTI AS THE CALIBER. The drop down menus are populated based on what prior users have input...and not provided by the ATF. That's why an option that is available can still be incorrect. There are many users here that learned the hard way...it will get disapproved. ETA 5/30/14: I called and spoke with Gary to inquire about multi being in the dropdown. He said it was actually removed at one point but had to be put back. While it's not a valid selection on a Form 1, it is used on some other forms in certain situations (a sear on a Form 2 was one example) so it needs to be in the system. 
From EForms bulletin: Attachment Limitations The maximum size of a single upload for an attachment is 3 MB and the total size of the attachments cannot exceed 30 MB (with a maximum number of attachments of 10 at- tachment for the Forms 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, and 10). Forms 6 and 6A may contain a maximum of 10 line attachments per line item (the total submission cannot exceed 30 MB per submission). Instructions NFA Trust Documents: We have been advised that, for NFA forms, the size of the trust or corporate documents may exceed the 3 MB limit. If you encounter this situation, we suggest that you split the document into 2 or more ‘packages’ (as needed). When the attachments are added, identify the packages as, for exam- ple, ‘XXX Trust 1 of 3,’ ‘XXX Trust 2 of 3,’ etc. Note: After you submit the application attachments cannot be added. ETA 8/28/14: I have found this statement to not be true. You can add documents after the form is submitted but before it's approved. However, it's a little confusing. It will create a duplicate copy of the form in DRAFT status. At first, my Draft copy had the new attachment and the Submitted copy had the old attachments. When I checked the next day, all attachments were on both copies. I had the NFA branch confirm they saw the new attachment, and was told not to delete the Draft copy, as it would delete both. Several months later, I still have Draft copies of all my Approved forms just sitting there. (if you have any questions about this process, feel free to post them or send me an IM). **also see the screen shot at the bottom of this guide to clarify when to add attachments** 
ETA 9/18/14: The question of what to upload comes up fairly often in regards to a trust. It is not sufficient to simply upload the Certificate of Trust. You must include the entire body of the trust, with all signature and notary stamps, as well as any Schedule A/B/C or Assignment of Property sheets required, depending on how your trust is written. I also included the signed and notarized Acceptance of Trusteeship & Affidavit of Eligibility to Serve as Trustee sheet I have for each trustee. It's better to be safe than sorry, so I'd definitely opt to send more than less. I have sent the same Schedule A for all of mine, showing just the initial $200 I used to find the trust, and just keep an updated copy at home. Everything (both paper and EForms) I've sent in so far that way has been approved. I did remove any blank/extra pages, and also skipped the "Information about your NFA gun trust" and "Delivery Verification Acknowledgement" sections, which were just information for me and a confirmation for my lawyer. Because of the wide variety in how trusts are written, there's unfortunately not a simple "include pages 2-6, plus the Schedule A" answer here. ETA 5/12/14: There's often a discussion about file size for attachments, and people having trouble getting their document scanned into a single file 3MB or less. I've always tried to point out that checking the settings is the key. B&W scans are significantly smaller than color, even if the document is nothing by black text. You also don't need extremely high dpi to make it readable. I took a single paper Form 1 I had (so there is one small color section, the stamp itself) and scanned it on my Brother multi-function printer multiple times using every quality option I had available. Here are the results: B&W 100dpi = 36KB B&W 200dpi = 77KB B&W 300dpi = 133KB Color 100dpi = 113KB Color 200dpi = 313KB Color 300dpi = 573KB Color 600dpi = 1,228KB So, based on that sample, a color scan is 3-4.5 times the size of a B&W scan. My trust scanned in at ~7MB at the default setting of 200dpi color. I submitted a 200dpi B&W copy which was only 1.7MB. 
One thing to point out here...the Permit/Control No is the Control Number you'll see at the top of your EForm 1 once it's submitted, and will match the Permit Number you'll see on the Home Screen. That's not to be confufsed with the Internal Control Number you may have used to help identify your submissions. The ICN will show up in the Reference No: field you see in these examples. 
To close the loop on my actual application (the one with the yellow warning for unknown model)...I got the email at 6:15p tonight indicating my submission changed to SUBMITTED/IN PROCESS. Subtracting the 48 hours for the weekend, that's just under 24 hours. The screen shown above the two emails now indicates a Permit Number for all three, with a Submitted Date of 1/13/2014 for the top line. If you have the yellow warning, your form will have a DRAFT watermark across it when you view/print it. When you get the email notifying you it's now SUBMITTED/IN PROCESS (same as Pending), you can view/print your form and see it now has a SUBMITTED watermark. If anybody knows for certain that something in the above is incorrect, let me know and I’ll fix it. Hopefully this gives you an idea of what’s involved in filing online. As a reminder, this is available for entities only (trust/LLC/corps) and not individuals. Your first one may take a little longer, but I know I can fill one out faster than I could actually read all of the information on my screen shots (assuming the system is running OK…as attaching the files and using pay.gov sometimes goes really slow). I went overboard in trying to make sure everything possible was covered. -Greg ETA 9/19/14: I mentioned earlier how you could get a duplicate form in the DRAFT folder when uploading attachments after they're in the SUBMITTED status. There are other things that cause this as well, not all of which are known. This has happened as recent as the day I'm adding it with somebody simply logging in to look at their form and hitting Save. It created a Draft copy, which the user deleted after verifying the Submitted copy was there...and they both disappeared. All is not lost, as the ATF still has the Submitted form, but they'll have to email it to you since it's not in the system any longer. Here's a snippet from an EForms bulletin that addresses it: 
ETA 2/12/14: there have been several questions asked in different subforums of the Armory sections that I'd like to address. The first pertains to answering all the questions on the back of the Form 1, specifically sections 10 & 11 (the Yes/No questions about age, being a fugitive or illegal alien, having been found mentally defective or being dishonorably discharged). These questions are not asked in EFORMS, because the entity filing cannot answer those questions. A trust cannot be addicted to drugs, and an LLC can't be convicted for domestic violence. There is no need to print out a copy, answer the questions, and then upload it as an attachment. The other commonly asked question focuses on the need for a Certification of Compliance, the form known as the 5330.20. It is not required for an entity. A lot of people fill it out anyway when they mailed in their paper forms, just in case. I did that on my first two. However, the ATF addressed this in one of their earlier EFORMS bulletins. The screen shot below has some good info, and the top-right section answers the 5330.20 question: 
ETA 5/8/14: for those of you that printed a copy of your form, I want to clarify a couple things that have been discussed on AR15.com several times: 1. You should've put your entity (trust/corp) in the Licensee/Permitee field and left the Trade Name field blank. The Licensee/Permittee name (and address) will show up in section 3b. However, you'll also notice that the entity name is duplicated in field 3a, the Trade Name. This is not a problem, it's the way EForms works. 2. Section 4j ("Is this firearm being reactivated?") will not have a mark in either "Yes" or "No". You were never asked this question when filling out the form. Multiple users with approved forms have confirmed this section is blank on their forms, and I've yet to see anybody say they were disapproved for this reason. 3. The entire back (page 2) of the Form 1 will be blank. This is the benefit of filing as an entity. You didn't have to provide photos (section 12) or CLEO sig and info (section 13). You also don't have to provide fingerprints. In addition to that, sections 10 & 11 will be blank, as you were never asked those questions. You weren't asked those questions because the entity is the applicant, and not you as an individual. Your entity can't be an illegal alien, can't be addicted to a controlled substance, can't be a fugitive, can't have been dishonorably discharged, can't have renounced its US Citizenship, etc. Same rules would apply to a paper F1, although a lot of people seem to check the boxes anyway. It is not required to answer these questions when filing as an entity, therefore you haven't done anything wrong resulting in unanswered questions. ETA 9/25/14: Although not specific to EForms, I'm going to post something that gets discussed often. The question is what needs to be engraved. The answer most of the time is: Name of applicant (either individual or entity) City, state of where maker made the firearm (not necessarily home address, or even same city) Remember, when it comes to looking at the statutes as a Form 1 applicant, you are a maker, not a manufacturer. A Form 1 is an Application to Make and Register a Firearm. There are a whole different set of forms/regulations/taxes to be a manufacturer. Here are the statutes behind those requirements: § 479.102 How must firearms be identified? (a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows: (1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and (2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes: (i) The model, if such designation has been made; (ii) The caliber or gauge; (iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker; (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and (v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134. Those are the general guidelines...then the ATF clarified for NFA items: The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) authorizes licensed manufacturers and licensed importers of firearms, and makers of National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms, to adopt the serial number, caliber/gauge, and/or model already identified on a firearm without seeking a marking variance, provided all of the conditions in this ruling are met. Licensed manufacturers seeking to adopt all of the required markings, including the original manufacturer’s name and place of origin, must receive an approved variance from ATF. ATF Ruling 75-28 is superseded, and ATF Industry Circular 77-20 is clarified. Held, pursuant to 27 CFR 478.92(a)(4)(i) and 479.102(c), ATF authorizes licensed manufacturers and licensed importers of firearms, and makers, to adopt the serial number, caliber/gauge, and/or model already identified on a firearm without seeking a marking variance, provided all of the following conditions are met: 1. The manufacturer, importer, or maker must legibly and conspicuously place on the frame, receiver, barrel, or pistol slide (if applicable) his/her own name (or recognized abbreviation) and location (city and State, or recognized abbreviation of the State) as specified under his/her Federal firearms license (if a licensee); 2. The serial number adopted must have been marked in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102, including that it must not duplicate any serial number adopted or placed by the manufacturer, importer, or maker on any other firearm; 3. The manufacturer, importer, or maker must not remove, obliterate, or alter the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number to be adopted, except that, within 15 days of the date of release from Customs custody, a licensed importer must add letters, numbers, or a hyphen (as described in paragraph 4) to a foreign manufacturer’s serial number if the importer receives two or more firearms with the same serial number; 4. The serial number adopted must be comprised of only a combination of Roman letters and Arabic numerals, or solely Arabic numerals, and can include a hyphen, that were conspicuously placed on the firearm; and 5. If the caliber or gauge was not identified or designated (e.g., marked "multi”) on the firearm, the manufacturer, importer, or maker must legibly and conspicuously mark the frame, receiver, barrel, or pistol slide (if applicable) with the actual caliber/gauge once the caliber or gauge is known. Held further, licensed manufacturers seeking to adopt all of the required markings, including the original manufacturer’s name and place of origin, must receive an approved variance from ATF. So...the quick list of required engravings: 1. Serial Number 2. Model (if designated) 3. Caliber 4. Name 5. Location A maker on an F1 can reuse the SN and model. They must engrave caliber if it's not present anywhere else, (i.e. if lower is marked "multi" and barrel isn't marked). You add your name, or name of entity that is the registered owner. Then, as maker, the city, state of where it was actually made. For a build from scratch, like an SBR using an 80% lower, or a Form 1 suppressor...you'd need to engrave everything on the list. That information can be on the frame, receiver, barrel, or pistol slide. But, it must always be on the firearm. That simply means if you choose to engrave on an AR upper or barrel, you'd have to engrave every upper/barrel you plan to use. That's why most will engrave the lower receiver. The serial number, however, must be on the frame or receiver (could be upper or lower depending on which part the ATF has defined as the "firearm"). Notice only the SN has the 1/16" minimum size. Everything else is only held to the .003" minimum depth. If you want to read the documents yourself, you can find 27 CFR 479.102 here and ATF ruling 2013-3 here. ETA 1/22/16: Inevitably, at some point in the engraving discussion, somebody will ask this question: "What if I don't engrave...what's the penalty?" Well, the NFA rules/penatlies are in CFR › Title 27 › Chapter II › Subchapter B › Part 479 27 CFR 479.181 - Penalties. Any person who violates or fails to comply with the requirements of 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53 shall, upon conviction, be subject to the penalties imposed under 26 U.S.C. 5871. 26 U.S. Code § 5871 - Penalties Any person who violates or fails to comply with any provisions of this chapter shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000, or be imprisoned not more than ten years, or both. For anybody that wants an easy way to remember this...follow the advice I often give but failed to follow myself: read the dang form! Directly from the instructions on the Form 1: 9. Penalties. Any person who violates or fails to comply with any of the requirements of the NFA shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000 or be imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both. Any firearm involved in a violation of the NFA shall be subject to seizure and forfeiture. It is unlawful for any person to make or cause the making of a false entry on any application or record required by the NFA knowing such entry to be false. It's also in Chapter 15 of the NFA Handbook...which also references the $250K penalty that's often mentioned, and quotes the Statutes listed above: [b]15.1.1 Criminal. The acts prohibited by the NFA and prosecutable as Federal offenses are listed in 26 U.S.C. 5861(a) through (l). As provided by 26 U.S.C. 5871, any person who commits an offense shall, upon conviction, be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 10 years or fined. Although the fine specified in the statute is an amount not exceeding $10,000, an amendment to Federal law provides for a fine of not more than $250,000 in the case of an individual or $500,000 in the case of an organization.[224] [224] 18 U.S.C. 3571(b) and (c) |
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Posted: 2/3/2016 8:54:52 AM EDT
[#1]
I locked the original and started this one in the F1 Suppressors forum. Leaving the other one in place due to the number of external links to it.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2016 7:17:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Thank you very much for this post! I just submitted my first Form 1, for an SBR, and following your post made it easy!
Dan |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 2:05:46 PM EDT
[#3]
You're welcome!!
Also...I made a couple updates. Silencer Shop redid their YouTube video, so I noted that with a new link. Also added a note addressing why you don't get asked question 4j about whether the item is being reactivated (answer: because, for whatever reason, eForms can't be used for reactivations). |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 10:18:43 PM EDT
[#4]
BigWaylon, I'm still not clear on what MUST be submitted for a Form 1 suppressor. Caliber is pretty obvious, and I understand length is essential, but I haven't seen anything that says much about what else I need to submit. Maybe I'm denser than the average bear, but I'd appreciate whatever hand holding you can provide.
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Posted: 2/12/2016 12:56:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GHPorter:
BigWaylon, I'm still not clear on what MUST be submitted for a Form 1 suppressor. Caliber is pretty obvious, and I understand length is essential, but I haven't seen anything that says much about what else I need to submit. Maybe I'm denser than the average bear, but I'd appreciate whatever hand holding you can provide. Not exactly sure what you're missing. Every blank needs to be filled in. If you choose Silencer, it gets rid of the barrel length field. You have to provide a model, caliber (and unit of measure), overall length and serial number. Model can be N/A if you don't want to select one. You can leave description blank, or input your trust name and city/state, but know it'll be blank on the form. Then you must provide a purpose/reason (whatever the field is labeled). The only differences in doing an F1 can vs an F1 SBR (using a standard lower) is you use FMI as Mfr Code and then you don't have a barrel length. I covered that list in an "ETA 2/16/15" post not too far into the guide, right before the screen shot of choosing Manufacturer. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 6:16:00 PM EDT
[#6]
I hadn't gotten started because I wanted my ducks all lined up before I did, so I didn't see that selecting silencer changed things. It seems I don't have to say anything about the internals, just overall length. Caliber, model, serial, etc. I had handled. Not needing anything more detailed about the silencer was what bugged me; I expected some "gotchas" there.
Thanks! |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 6:31:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#7]
Correct. Most people don't do anything with providing specs. I've uploaded a sketch several times, but all really basic...no details that weren't really part of the specs already provided. I filled out three F1s and attached this one sheet on all three:
There's enough lack of detail in that sketch that there's no reason to submit it. Notice it has length, but not even diameter. The one I had approved about 3 weeks ago had no sketch submitted. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 9:22:01 PM EDT
[#8]
I just created a Form 1 with eForms, and following the above instructions made it a piece of cake.
I did run into a glitch though. By default the manufacturer dialog is set up for the user to enter a manufacturer name. You MUST SELECT "By Manufacturer Code" if you're creating a silencer. You can put "FMI" in the manufacturer name box, but you'll get a notice that "this manufacturer is unknown" and the line item gets marked with a "!". I went back and actually read that dialog box, then did what BigWaylon's instructions said to do, and the rest of the form was smooth as silk. |
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Posted: 4/18/2016 3:24:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Can the .gov do anything correctly? The stupid registration page format is messed up. The drop down/box to type in is so compressed I cant use it for City, State, and user ID.
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Posted: 4/18/2016 4:03:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Try a different browser. NOBODY can make complex web pages work perfectly for all browsers. I have to use Safari on my iPad to make it work on that device - Google Chrome on iOS just does not work, though on Mac OS X it works fine. And if you're using a mobile browser, don't be surprised if stuff looks weird; the kind of coding that goes into making a dynamic page like eForms actually work either has to be explicitly written to handle mobile browser limitations, or it'll look like crap.
Having worked my fingers to nubs just to write a very simple web page (that does NOT work well with any mobile browser), I am not going to complain that I have to use a different browser to make a complex site work decently for me. |
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Posted: 4/18/2016 5:23:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GHPorter:
Try a different browser. NOBODY can make complex web pages work perfectly for all browsers. I have to use Safari on my iPad to make it work on that device - Google Chrome on iOS just does not work, though on Mac OS X it works fine. And if you're using a mobile browser, don't be surprised if stuff looks weird; the kind of coding that goes into making a dynamic page like eForms actually work either has to be explicitly written to handle mobile browser limitations, or it'll look like crap. Having worked my fingers to nubs just to write a very simple web page (that does NOT work well with any mobile browser), I am not going to complain that I have to use a different browser to make a complex site work decently for me. I guess I can try to download Safari. No IPad and I imagine registering on an iPhone screen would be difficult at best. |
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Posted: 4/18/2016 11:18:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redfish86:
I guess I can try to download Safari. No IPad and I imagine registering on an iPhone screen would be difficult at best. I've done almost every one of mine on my iPhone...only use the laptop to upload trust. |
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Posted: 4/19/2016 10:21:39 AM EDT
[#13]
So I finally got registered and tried to log in. Nothing. Its like the page just wasn't responding at all. I figured I'd give it the night and try this AM. Now I get an email saying that the site is down from 0600-1800 on Wednesdays for maintenance!! I swear the .gov can't do anything right.
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Posted: 4/19/2016 11:31:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redfish86:
So I finally got registered and tried to log in. Nothing. Its like the page just wasn't responding at all. I figured I'd give it the night and try this AM. Now I get an email saying that the site is down from 0600-1800 on Wednesdays for maintenance!! I swear the .gov can't do anything right. It's been down on Wednesdays for scheduled maintenance for probably 2 years now. Much better than the random outages that used to happen, or the couple 1-2 hours blocks of time every day it was taken offline. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 1:45:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tankdawg0057]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redfish86:
So I finally got registered and tried to log in. Nothing. Its like the page just wasn't responding at all. I figured I'd give it the night and try this AM. Now I get an email saying that the site is down from 0600-1800 on Wednesdays for maintenance!! I swear the .gov can't do anything right. I was having a similar problem. The way I was able to get it to work is clicking on the compatibility view settings in your settings tab on Internet Explorer and adding the ATF eforms web address to the sites to work with compatibility view. I did this after I cleared my browser cache and cookies. Then closed IE, reopened, added the address to compatibility view, closed IE, reopened and went straight to the eforms webpage. THEN it worked lol. ETA: Also it appears that the eforms website goes down constantly for unknown reasons. It was down last night. The form 1 I started last night, I wasn't able to finish till today. Hit save often like the tutorial says! Not sure if the above procedure will work for you but I was having a real time getting in and its all working fine now. I just submitted my 1st form 1 a few minutes ago. Looks like it went though and is pending 
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Posted: 5/27/2016 7:07:00 PM EDT
[#16]
So I'm filling out e file for a form 1 for a SBR and everything is going fine until trust uploading and it just quits after about 30 seconds and looks like nothing happened, PDF 2.1 MB with a MAC. Anyone have a clue?
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Posted: 5/27/2016 8:35:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ElCoyote:
So I'm filling out e file for a form 1 for a SBR and everything is going fine until trust uploading and it just quits after about 30 seconds and looks like nothing happened, PDF 2.1 MB with a MAC. Anyone have a clue? Try this. 1. Create a blank .doc file 2. Upload blank file 3. Upload trust 4. Delete blank file |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 10:50:32 AM EDT
[#18]
That worked Thanks
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Posted: 5/28/2016 1:24:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ElCoyote:
That worked Thanks And I wish I knew why it did. It was something I tried out of desperation a year or two ago. Everybody I know of that's tried it (assuming the file size was within limits) has reported back that it worked for them as well. |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 7:17:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ElCoyote]
[#20]
This is my first try at this so one more stupid question, this is the first time I have used this trust and schedule 1 is blank, should I have filled it out with the info on the lower for the SBR before I submited ? Thanks for all the help
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Posted: 5/28/2016 9:36:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ElCoyote:
This is my first try at this so one more stupid question, this is the first time I have used this trust and schedule 1 is blank, should I have filled it out with the info on the lower for the SBR before I submited ? Thanks for all the help Nope. Wouldn't hurt anything, but not necessary. In some instances the trust needs to be "funded", as the purpose of a trust is to hold property...and if no property, there's no trust. That's why you see discussion of people listing $1 or some other amount of money. Mine was funded with the first $200 I spent on a stamp. Lots of people send in blank Schedules. Sometimes the initial funding is even "hard coded" into the body of the trust. |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 10:25:14 PM EDT
[#22]
I can't imagine trying this without this tread, Thanks
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Posted: 6/12/2016 10:14:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Surely I am not the first person to submit a form 1 for a 458 SOCOM SBR???? How much headache will this cause? Should I just submit it in a common caliber and then build 2 uppers? |
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Posted: 6/12/2016 12:13:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jeremyt:
Surely I am not the first person to submit a form 1 for a 458 SOCOM SBR???? How much headache will this cause? Should I just submit it in a common caliber and then build 2 uppers? I'm fairly certain it's caliber for each model. So, plenty of people may have built them, just not with the same manufacturer & model combo you're using. You can always submit with specs for a common upper you have, and then swap afterward. |
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Posted: 6/12/2016 2:07:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon: I'm fairly certain it's caliber for each model. So, plenty of people may have built them, just not with the same manufacturer & model combo you're using. You can always submit with specs for a common upper you have, and then swap afterward. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon: Originally Posted By jeremyt:
Surely I am not the first person to submit a form 1 for a 458 SOCOM SBR???? How much headache will this cause? Should I just submit it in a common caliber and then build 2 uppers? I'm fairly certain it's caliber for each model. So, plenty of people may have built them, just not with the same manufacturer & model combo you're using. You can always submit with specs for a common upper you have, and then swap afterward. Thanks BW. I think you're correct. I'm using a Spikes lower and I think the system was balking on the "ST15" model. I submitted it and got an pending research email. |
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Posted: 7/9/2016 1:18:25 AM EDT
[#26]
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Did 4 today and it was a breeze.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 10/5/2018 8:56:14 AM EDT
[#27]
So I guess this thread is relevant again.
EForms form 1 is back up! |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 9:18:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tcmccarthy11:
So I guess this thread is relevant again. EForms form 1 is back up! |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 1:30:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Topic Moved
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Posted: 10/6/2018 1:32:44 PM EDT
[#30]
going to resurrect this from the dead (it's been in the Silencer - BIY forum in case you never saw it)...
This pics show up for me, but I thought PB wasn't allowing hot-linking. Does anybody else see the pics? |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 1:40:03 PM EDT
[#31]
a couple new screen shots...
OK...here are a couple updates. I don't have the same software I used for adding text and arrows, so these are pretty rough. At a minimum, it'll at least give you a heads-up as to what you'll encounter. Since it's now available for individuals, this page is near the beginning: 
They've added additional instructions now to discuss photos and fingerprints: 
The Responsible Persons section is new, but fairly straight forward. It covers all the CoC info as well. This is where you'll upload pics (even for individuals) and a 5320.23 (RPQ) for each RP. Instructions say you need to print a paper copy, sign it, then scan and upload. 
the rest of the info once you scroll to the right: 
The CLEO section is also new, and fairly straightforward. Remember...this is not limited to your local Sheriff or Police Chief. Lots of other options, including state level employees (which may provide a little more OpSec). 
I'm assuming you simply print out the Form 1 and the RPQ (if necessary) and mail it. Maybe I missed it, but I don't see any instructions stating otherwise...they're not mailing it for you. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2018 6:47:52 PM EDT
[#32]
I am attempting to complete a Form 1 via Individual. When I reached the Responsible Person page, it asks for me to complete the Title section (Trustee, Settlor/Grantor, etc). I am not sure what the correct response should be since this I am not filing as a Trust. I reviewed my older Form 1s, and the Grantor and Trustee is only next to Signature of Applicant when I used my trust. What should I indicate since I am filing as an individual?
Thanks |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 7:22:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mgpatty:
I am attempting to complete a Form 1 via Individual. When I reached the Responsible Person page, it asks for me to complete the Title section (Trustee, Settlor/Grantor, etc). I am not sure what the correct response should be since this I am not filing as a Trust. I reviewed my older Form 1s, and the Grantor and Trustee is only next to Signature of Applicant when I used my trust. What should I indicate since I am filing as an individual? Thanks However, your question did cause me to go test something. I chose "Individual" to see if that field disappeared, and it doesn't. But it does let you go on to the next screen with it blank (unlike other items on other screens). Also, as an individual, you get prompted for all the yes/no questions on that page. For an entity those are handled on the 5320.23. The site wouldn't let me scroll over using my phone, even if I clicked Detach, but I'm assuming there are Yes/No boxes to the right of each question? |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2018 8:07:57 PM EDT
[#34]
I was able to answer yes or no to all the questions regarding citizenship, etc, but it would not allow me to leave the Title section blank I would assume I should go with Applicant, since it seems most applicable.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2018 11:08:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: superdrag67]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
I don't see that as a required field, so I would leave it blank. However, your question did cause me to go test something. I chose "Individual" to see if that field disappeared, and it doesn't. But it does let you go on to the next screen with it blank (unlike other items on other screens). Also, as an individual, you get prompted for all the yes/no questions on that page. For an entity those are handled on the 5320.23. The site wouldn't let me scroll over using my phone, even if I clicked Detach, but I'm assuming there are Yes/No boxes to the right of each question? Edit: I'm talking about as an individual. You still have to fill out the Title box. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2018 11:54:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mgpatty:
I am attempting to complete a Form 1 via Individual. When I reached the Responsible Person page, it asks for me to complete the Title section (Trustee, Settlor/Grantor, etc). I am not sure what the correct response should be since this I am not filing as a Trust. I reviewed my older Form 1s, and the Grantor and Trustee is only next to Signature of Applicant when I used my trust. What should I indicate since I am filing as an individual? Thanks |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 10:06:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Thanks for the revive to the thread BigWaylon!
So, when I F1 a new supressor, what do I need? do I need to describe how the can is manufactured? or do I just need the serial # and caliber, name and location engraved? Model number not necessary I think???. It's been way too long since I last looked at how it's done. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 10:25:52 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ejeviking:
Thanks for the revive to the thread BigWaylon! So, when I F1 a new supressor, what do I need? do I need to describe how the can is manufactured? or do I just need the serial # and caliber, name and location engraved? Model number not necessary I think???. It's been way too long since I last looked at how it's done. No "how manufactured" required... |
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Posted: 10/18/2018 4:56:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Just an FYI.
The email that contains the finger print cover letter is attached to the initial received email from the ATF. I contacted them and they said that that attachment cannot be accessed with a phone or tablet, it has to be a computer. One question I did not ask is, the CLEO notification is digitally signed, I assume you do not need to ink sign it also. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2018 4:54:34 PM EDT
[#40]
For the "24 month document submission exception" that refers to the trust paperwork; the verbiage is
Documentation evidencing the existence and validity of the entity, which includes complete and unredacted copies of partnership agreements, articles of incorporation, corporate registration, declarations of trust, with any trust schedules, attachments, exhibits, and enclosures; however, if the entity has had an application approved as a maker or transferee within the preceding 24 months, and there had been no change to the documentation previously provided, including the responsible person information, the entity may provide a certification that the information has not changed since the prior approval and must identify the application for which the documentation had been submitted by form number, serial number, and date approved; ATF, This is to certify that there have been no changes to trust documentation previously submitted on form xxx, serial number yyy that was approved on zz/zz/zz. That's it? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2018 11:58:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Gotta ask. Since my submission had a yellow triangle (Model being N/A for a Form 1 suppressor) and my cover letter not having a control number, will they still accept the finger prints if I were to mail them off tomorrow? Or should I wait until I get approved submission with control number?
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Posted: 11/1/2018 7:28:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By number40Fan:
Gotta ask. Since my submission had a yellow triangle (Model being N/A for a Form 1 suppressor) and my cover letter not having a control number, will they still accept the finger prints if I were to mail them off tomorrow? Or should I wait until I get approved submission with control number? You shouldn't have received a yellow triangle for N/A if it was already in the dropdown. But the control number (also called permit number) isn't issued until it's in Submitted status...which doesn't happen until the yellow triangle is cleared. Did you select something else that may have caused it? Or if you're referring to the Internal Control Number, that's something you would've had to create. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2018 8:45:39 PM EDT
[#43]
I was referring to the control number.
Not exactly sure what made it do it. I had left the model blank. Received the yellow triangle. Went back in and changed it to N/A. Didn't have the triangle, but there was a message about possible issues. Email received after submitting doesn't show a Control number. Sent the finger prints off this morning anyways. Printed out the Form.pdf and it looks exactly like my paper form except for the Manufacturer area. Paper has my name, eForm has "Form 1 Registration". |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/3/2018 10:52:57 PM EDT
[#44]
My head is spinning trying to cover all the bases.
I have read and read and read. I think need glasses. The pics are out of focus. Maybe I missed it but a prefile checklist might be a good thing before the barrage of instructions. Here is my list: Trust documents scanned and ready to upload Digital photo to upload per responsible person ( cant find what method is accepable ) Still looking. ATF Responsible person form 5320.23 forms printed, signed, then rescanned and ready to upload 2 ATF acceptable fingerprint cards per “Responsible person” ready to mail within 10 days of filing. specs of SBR,SBS etc. What else am I missing? Do I have to include an assignment sheet? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 11/5/2018 2:48:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: number40Fan]
[#45]
I went back through my submission on the website and found that all of the Yes/No questions were now blank. Hmm...
Answered them all again and resubmitted. Verified successful and I received a new email with cover letter and form filled out correctly. What do I do about the prints being sent off already with the cover letter that I received before when it was in Pending/Research? Send in just the new cover letter and hope they get matched up in the long run? New set of prints with new cover letter? Edit: Had more cards, so I just made a couple more and sent off the correct cover letter with them. Edit: 11-6-18 I "asked the experts" about this yesterday. Received an email back from Heather asking me to email her the cover letter .pdf. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 4:05:31 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By number40Fan:
I went back through my submission on the website and found that all of the Yes/No questions were now blank. Hmm... Yep, form ate some of my RP docs at some point after or during submission and altered the description of others. 
Took two attempts to get them re-uploaded to the in-process form, but then the CLEO info got wiped and that took ~4 attempts to re-enter, ending with the City and County fields being broken. Bleh. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 1:50:27 PM EDT
[#47]
I had a similar issue, apparently all my answers for the maker's questions disappeared. But I can't access the form anyways to edit it. They emailed me a copy of the 5320.23 to fill out and attach but I can't access the form to attach it.
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Posted: 11/29/2018 1:41:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Lexington]
[#48]
I struggled with eForms for a while this evening. What a pile of Gov't generated software. Now I know how the Obamacare site was so bad. They need to get a 14-year old web jockey to redesign it and give it a decent user interface, you know, like all of the other commercial software out there. Or maybe I need to get a 14-year old to fill out the form for me. I think I am going to resort to a paper application. It's on my desk and ready to roll.
The selection of Product Type forces duplication of the contents of that field into the Description: 
And this SNAFU flows through to field 4h on the draft Form 1. And the string is long and it won't wrap to the next line, causing my state (VA) to disappear: 
EDIT: Going back into the online form to edit, and I find that 13.D.2 has been automatically changed from my choice of N/A to the system's choice of No. My CLEO's city and state were previously auto-filled based on the ZIP code. They are now blank and won't repopulate. This software is ACES! |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 8:54:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Just had the same thing happen on my SBR Form 1. I removed everything from the Additional Information box and reset the N/A answer for question 13d2 just before submitting the form. I'm certainly not engraving "PRODUCT TYPE IS SHORT BARRELED RIFLE : BABA LOOEY MYCITY," on my lower.
My CLEO information included the state, but not the city. I missed that when I read through the form just before submitting it. It also didn't add my photo to the CLEO form. Guess I'll see what ATF says about the empty Additional Information box. I suspect no will notice the city name is missing from the CLEO address block. Any idea how long efiled SBR Form 1s are taking? |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 9:01:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BabaLooey:
Any idea how long efiled SBR Form 1s are taking? |
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