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Posted: 9/2/2010 6:54:46 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Okay, i have a chance to purchase a registered Thompson. The gun is on a form 4 in state. The owner died two years ago, and the hier, his son, has not form 5 the weapon. He has a copy of the will, and wants top sell the Thompson. Is the son the executor of the estate? Is there time limit to form 5 it?
It's supposed to be done before the estate is closed. Can it be transferred via form 4 without a form 5?
It can transfer from the estate to an heir tax-free on a Form 5, or sold out of the estate to a non-heir on a Form 4. How do you guys trust the private party seller to deliver the weapon?
Upon deposit, i get the lower, and the seller keeps thge registerred upper? I was thinking 50% down and the rest on delivery of my form 4. Rich These types of details are usually specified in a sales contract. |
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Posted: 9/2/2010 7:07:31 AM EDT
[#2]
Bubbles pretty much covered it all. It'll go on a F4 to you. The tax free form 5 is to a heir named in the will or estate. You are not. If you are worried about them flaking on you once you give them the money, then I would walk away from the deal now. There isn't much you can do about that. Sure, half now, half on the F4 approval is pretty normal for people to do, but they still have the chance to run off with $5-$8k or whatever half of it would be. You can get a contract, that wouldn't be hard to do, but if you don't trust them in the first place, the contract is just a piece of paper if you have to take them to court.
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Posted: 9/2/2010 1:32:53 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm going out on a limb here. What about paying in full and have the transferrer store it at your house in a pelican case that only they have the key to. Then the only thing left is for them to send you the Form 4 and the key when they receive the approved Form 4. ATF says you can store an NFA item at another's location as long as they don't have access. Just Sayin!
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Posted: 9/2/2010 1:36:47 PM EDT
[#4]
When a class III dealer that you know "escrow" it for you? Let him hold the cash and firearm until the Form 4 is complete.
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Posted: 9/2/2010 2:59:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
When a class III dealer that you know "escrow" it for you? Let him hold the cash and firearm until the Form 4 is complete. The transfer to the dealer would require a second Form 4. Waste of $200. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 2:50:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Just found out from an attorney, that there is a window to transfer on a form 5.
Two years is outside of that window. So now i get to beg to ATF to let hi form 5 it anyway. If not, i'll have to wait another 3 months. Rich |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 7:44:30 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Just found out from an attorney, that there is a window to transfer on a form 5. Two years is outside of that window. So now i get to beg to ATF to let hi form 5 it anyway. If not, i'll have to wait another 3 months. Rich The attorney doesn't know what you were asking. The ATF would never allow a F5 to you. This we know. Doesn't matter if you tried it a week after the person died. To go to a name heir in the will or estate, it would have gone F5. You are not in the estate, you would have always been required to pay the $200 and do it via a F4. |
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Posted: 9/3/2010 9:40:50 AM EDT
[#8]
Get a written signed receipt if you hand someone money on a private sale. At least then you'd have PROOF, along with a personal check, or certified funds. If you had to use civil court to get your funds back.
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Posted: 9/6/2010 4:53:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just found out from an attorney, that there is a window to transfer on a form 5. Two years is outside of that window. So now i get to beg to ATF to let hi form 5 it anyway. If not, i'll have to wait another 3 months. Rich The attorney doesn't know what you were asking. The ATF would never allow a F5 to you. This we know. Doesn't matter if you tried it a week after the person died. To go to a name heir in the will or estate, it would have gone F5. You are not in the estate, you would have always been required to pay the $200 and do it via a F4. The attorney does know. The heir had to have the MG on F5 within a year of the owner passing. He has not done any form. The MG is still on F4 in the dead owners name. No where did i expect to have ATF F5 the MG directly to me. I fully expected to F4 it, and pay the full $200. The guy does not understand the process of forms. He is in desperate need of money and is very nervous. RIch |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 6:06:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
The attorney does know. The heir had to have the MG on F5 within a year of the owner passing. He has not done any form. The MG is still on F4 in the dead owners name. No where did i expect to have ATF F5 the MG directly to me. I fully expected to F4 it, and pay the full $200. The guy does not understand the process of forms. He is in desperate need of money and is very nervous. RIch Rich, sorry, but they attorney does not know. There is absolutely no time limit for an estate to transfer an item to an heir. ATF asks that it be done "as soon as possible," but I know of estate situations where ATF accepted the Form 5 as long as seven years after the death of the registered owner. Here is an ATF web site statement on the issue. As you will see, there is no stated time limit: http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/1999/09/090599-openletter-nfa-estate-transfers.html Now, if an heir or an executor gets confrontational with ATF, they may dig their heels in. But estates commonly take two or more years to be settled, and ATF allows the use of a Form 5 because it is an involuntary transfer –– in other words, the registered owner (and his estate) are not voluntarily transferring it, it is a situation beyond their control. That condition of "involuntary" does not change with the passage of time, ior the time constraints required to settle the estate. If the heir's attorney is not capable of getting ATF to accept a Form 5, I can put you in touch with attorneys who have ATF on their speed dial, and vice versa. Two years is an entirely reasonable time to settle an estate. HTH. However, since it is not going to the heir, the executor of the estate can submit a Form 4 from the estate directly to you, bypassing the heir and the entire "Form 5" issue. The heir gets the $$$, but there is no requirement that he be involved in the paperwork. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 8:18:46 AM EDT
[#11]
In MD you have 9 months to settle an estate, unless you come up with a very good reason - they will hold you to it.
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Posted: 9/7/2010 9:54:51 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
In MD you have 9 months to settle an estate, unless you come up with a very good reason - they will hold you to it. It must be interesting in MD when an estate includes real estate property which must be sold to settle the estate. Cleaned up, listed, sold and closed upon, and funds distributed to heirs ... all within nine months? For that matter ... I know of Form 5's that have taken over nine months for ATF to approve (usually faster, but not always...) So what happens when to unsold/untransferred property in MD after the nine-month limit? Sure glad we don't have that law here in Florida. They frequently take years to close here. But the OP is speaking of federal law, which AFAIK has no time limit for settling estates. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 1:07:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Spoke with a specialist at the ATF today. She stated that there is no time frame for F5 transfers.
However if the Heir does not wish to take possession of the MG, then find a buyer and F4 it. Make sure to send a copy of the will or other related documents. Thanks for all the comments, and information. Rich |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 1:40:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Spoke with a specialist at the ATF today. She stated that there is no time frame for F5 transfers. However if the Heir does not wish to take possession of the MG, then find a buyer and F4 it. Make sure to send a copy of the will or other related documents. Thanks for all the comments, and information. Rich Glad you finally have all the correct info. Hope it all works out, and you get the MG. |
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