I'm somewhat of a Glock fanboy, but I'm afraid I'm losing faith in Glock these days. Think of it this way...if you purchased a new car and it wouldn't start, steer or stop properly right off of the lot, you'd likely take it back or buy something else. That's the way I feel right now about Glock.

After a long wait at my LGS, I recently picked up a Glock 41. In fact, I sold my 100% perfect G21SF for this "upgrade". So, I dropped in the same Wolff competition spring kit and "-" disconnector that has worked so perfectly in my gen. 4 G34 and headed to the range, only to discover that my G41 would fire one shot, eject the spent case, chamber a new round, but fail to reset the trigger. I fired 20+ rounds...bang...rack the slide...bang...rack the slide, best damn single shot pistol ever. So, I go home and replace all the aftermarket parts and put all the heavy ass springs, etc. back into it. Go back to the range and things have improved...slightly. Now it only fails to reset the trigger once every magazine or so. Really? I'm getting sick of this. It always resets perfectly when hand cycling it but does not do so consistently when firing live ammo.

Now I realize that any company can produce a lemon...I get it, but allow me to provide some perspective. I've owned probably 15-20 Glock pistols over the years. I can remember the following:

3- gen 3 G19's
2- gen 3 G17's
1- gen 3 G23
1- gen 3 G21SF
1- gen 3 G30
2- gen 3 G26's
1- gen 3 G34
1- gen 3 G30S
1- gen 4 G17
1- gen 4 G34
1- gen 4 G19
1- gen 4 G42

Of all of these pistols listed not a single "old school" gen. 3 ever gave me trouble. Never a failure. Fast forward to Glock's newer offerings:

G30S- Several FTF until the magazines broke in a bit.
G17 gen. 4-Functioned fine if you like eating brass.
G19 gen. 4-No issues
G34 gen 4- trigger reset issues, fixed by replacing trigger spring.
G42 gen 4- major FTF issues with weak cartridges, and very ammunition specific. Basically find one cartridge it likes and stick with it.
G41 gen 4- inconsistent trigger reset issues when firing only.


So allow me to provide some comparison. I have owned probably the same number of Sig pistols of both old and new manufacture and currently have nine in my vault.

6-P226
4-P220
5-P229
3-P239
2-P228
2-P245
1-P225
1-P220 Compact
2-P6

There's probably a half dozen more I've completely forgotten about. Out of all these Sig pistols, I've had one P239 in .357 Sig that was picky about magazines. I had one new US manufacture P229 that went bang every time, but the gun shot nowhere near POA. And lastly, I had a Sig P6 that wouldn't feed hollow points, a well known and documented problem that was corrected with a feed ramp polish.

Let's try another brand of pistols...CZ

Out of 3 CZ75's, 2 CZ75 compacts, 3 CZ83's, CZP01, CZ75PCR, CZ82, and a SP-01 Tactical I've had only one problem. A factory nickel CZ83 that hated Bill Clinton's 10 round magazines, but otherwise was perfect.

What about Beretta? I have a 92FS that has over 12,000 rounds through it and not once has it failed me...never.

Smith and Wesson? Not a lot of experience here...a couple of M&P's, a 45 Compact and a Shield 9. Never any problems.

HK? Three USP's in various sizes and calibers. The USP tactical sights were so far off, that no amount of adjustment could get me to POA.

Hell, even a dozen or so 1911's haven't given me this much trouble.



While it is true that I have "range toys", Glocks have always been my EDC and my nightstand gun. Up until now, if I had to grab any pistol in my vault in a SHTF situation, it would probably be a G19 or G17. But, having had some sort of trouble in 4 out of my last 5 Glock purchases I'm just not convinced I can trust my life to newly manufactured Glock products any longer.

If anyone has suggestions on how to address the trigger reset issue with my G41, I'm all ears.

Sounds like limp wristing.

Now come and enjoy a nice glass of kool aid and settle down.

Did you shoot it before installing the after market parts?

If not, I see no fault with Glock...just you and what you've done.

Nope...definitely not.

I changed the disconnector, firing pin spring and firing pin block spring before shooting it the first time. Once it became a single shot, I changed all of the springs back and put the original disconnector back in. This level of "gun-smithing" is not rocket science. Once back to stock, the trigger reset issue improved, but it would still happen at least once every magazine. I'm wondering if it has more to do with the lighter slide cycling too fast.

Agreed with this

The only issue I ever had with the Gen4 was an early production 19 and we all know what that really was.

It is unpossible for a Glock to fail.  You must have run out of kool aid.  I'm sure another fanboy will be here shortly to let you have some of his!  

Actually I have heard of more complaints from Glock fans after gen 3 it seems.  

BTW- I am impressed and jealous with your array of handgun ownership.

I know that it isn't rocket science.  I just disagree with the title of the OP and the tone of the post given the circumstances.

You've been around here a long time, and some readers may not understand that you can really fuck up a Glock when you start switching parts.

Not fair to Glock IMHO.  If you were a 14er newb, you'd get slaughtered for this post.

Fair enough...I see your point. But, my post title does in fact reflect my loss of faith in a product that fails to perform when common aftermarket parts are properly installed...and even when they're not...when for more than a decade there was never a problem with any of my Glocks whether they be used for defense, competition or recreation. That's why I took the time to create a comparison between earlier Glocks as well as other manufacturers.

And thank God I'm not a '14er. But I think that's still better than a '13er.

Has anybody had an issue with a G41 doing this? Has anyone heard anything about the lighter slides cycling too fast? Anything? Bueller, Bueller?

I don't have experience with the 41, but one thing I did see on my end was a brand new Glock 23 Gen3 RTF2 frame locking the slide back 3 to 4 times per magazine. After close inspection I found the slide lock lever spring in the wrong position. Apparently this is a very common assembly issue and mine was like this from the factory so it can happen to anyone. After I put the spring in the correct position, the gun has been running like a typewriter ever since.

After that issue, I had a Walther PPQ in 40 S&W break the locking block after round #52 and my most recent event was a pin in the side of my HK VP9 kept walking out and causing the gun to not operate properly. After I seated the pin, it put out 400 flawless rounds of mixed ammo.

My point is, at some level I believe we have all been lulled into a sense of all of these things being perfect right from the factory. Because of the issues I've seen in the last 5 years from my purchases, I've instituted a break-in period on all new firearms i.e. 300 rounds before I will carry it. I will say, all issues I've had were found in basically the first 50 rounds.  I remember in the 80's people advocated for a 1000 round break-in of all new guns and another 500 rounds of your chosen carry ammo prior to CCW. I never hear that anymore, but do hear people talk about how reliable their piece is after only running 2 magazines through it.

In your case, I would run the firearm factory for probably 250 rounds. If that goes well, change whatever you want and if you have issues, you will know the issues are probably related to your changes. I would also only make one change at a time just to see if there are any differences. Who knows, you could have a bad 3rd party part. Also, don't overlook ammo as the culprit. Some of the round ball range type ammo can cause issues that you wouldn't see if you were running personal defense ammo….more expensive I know.

This is kind of difficult for me as I leave all of my pistols factory, but to each their own.

That's a pretty dramatic reply for going right to aftermarket parts without shooting it, and then blaming Glock, dontcha think?

Thanks for sharing, but I'm having a hard time taking you seriously considering that the gen 4 uses some different parts than the Gen 3 and anyone who did five minutes of research on Google would realize this.

Doesn't the slide weigh the same as the G21's?  Hence the thinner profile.

I can't speak specifically to the slide but I did find this in American Rifleman...

"The G41, when weighed with an empty magazine, tipped the scale at 26.8 ounces. This means it weighs 6.7-ounces less than the Lone Wolf long-slide, and 3-ounces less than the G21 with a 4.6-inch factory-standard barrel. Since the G41 is equipped with the same recoil springs as the G21 Gen4,  and the bullets fired are gaining a little more velocity due to a 0.71-inch longer barrel, then the lighter slide is going to transmit more felt recoil, not less, to the operator’s hands."

I used the same parts that work flawlessly in my Gen 4 G34 and no parts that are 9mm or 45ACP specific.

So let's assume I'm a newb idiot who has no idea how to shoot, make improvements to a firearm, or even how to Google. Now that the pistol has all of the stock parts back in it, how do you explain its continued failure to reset the trigger? Or better yet...how would you fix it?

Major police departments are DUMPING Glocks, especially Gen 4 21's.

I had no idea...which ones?

The departments I'm aware of that are carrying the Gen 4 G21s love them. I haven't heard of all the issues stated with the Gen-4 Glocks. So what seems to be the problems you guys are speaking of ? All my Glocks are Gen 3 and below.

Please provide us a list of agencies and reasons for moving to a different firearm. Police contracts are very complex and political. Often changes have very little or nothing to do with the firearm itself especially if another company is willing to give them a good deal.

Sounds like you and your "gunsmithing" are the problem.

Indiana State Police and Pennsylvania State Police. Both agencies have dropped the Glock 21 Gen 4 this year. I don't know the exact reason, but I know they got rid of thousands of next to new Glock 21 Gen 4's and traded them in on Sig 227's.

I think some of you are missing the point.

Let's summarize a bit...



A bunch of you are cherry picking the one almost irrelevant detail of the part swap involving only the most recent gun. He already tested the parts in another gun, and he's had problems with four of his five most recently purchased Glocks. And I'd say he's working with a rather substantial sample size, considering he's a private individual.

He's not alone, either. I bought my first Glock, a Gen 3 G19, sometime in early 2011. It had every erratic ejection with a few failures to eject. I sent it in for repair and promptly traded it in. My second Glock was a Gen4 G17. I put 70 rounds through it on the first range trip, and the ejection on it was clearly FUBAR as well. I sent it in, and Glock replaced the entire gun. The replacement gun is better, but it's still iffy. I'm keeping it around as a toy, but I don't really trust it.

I have more confidence in my Berettas and CZs, and my S&Ws are getting there.

I really can't put much faith in any opinions/any problems you claim when you start modifying/tinkering with guns before you shoot them even once.


I don't care how many guns you have and how many years experience you have. You start screwing with the internals of a brand new gun before firing it stock then wanna complain about issues........



The G22 is the most popular/widespread LE firearm on the market. If a department switches an entire platform it usually is more political based then anything. You have to realize the guys who are making the decision aren't really 'gun' guys. The upper brass at my department fire 60 rounds per year and don't ever even remove a gun from their holster except to qualify the once per year.

On occasion Glocks may have a malfunction but most of it is user/training based. IE you have morons using a screw driver to tighten a weapon light (causes malfunctions), people holding the gun improperly and causing the slide to lock back on every round, people limp wristing, etc.

I can't tell you how many times a guy who has a malfunction problem with his Glock has 2-3 other people pick up the gun and run hundreds of rounds through it with no issue.


My department prob. has around 300 gen 4 G22/G34 in service. The only malfunctions are user based as I mentioned above. Or on occasion magazine related.
Every malf. issue is ironed out with training. A few people carry oddball weapons as well, but that's personal choice... Personally I wouldn't spend a dime on a duty gun.


As a platform I prefer the M&P, but trust my life to a Glock on a daily basis.




The Glock 21 is a stupid choice as a LE standard issue anyway. Only a moron would pick a double stack .45 as a standard issue. Its gonna work well for most guys of average size or larger. But smaller males/females, not even once.  I'm guessing the bulk of their problems are user rather then a QC issue with the weapons themselves. If they want .45s they probably need single stacks as an option for smaller stature individuals.

I'd be curious to find out their main complaints.

I only have the one Glock.

I have 2 XDMs.  Two M&Ps.  Two CZs.

Glock - 1 malfunction

Both XDMS - zero malfunctions

M&Ps - too many malfunctions to list

CZs - zero malfunctions.

Just my experience.

I have only one pistol a G21 Gen 3 that is absolutely flawless. I've done the $.25 trigger job,added a different connector and a titanium firing pin safety ( for what it's worth) and never had a FTF or a FTE..PERIOD !  I've had this pistol going on 5 years and still don't have any slide wear on the underside where it rides on the frame. This Gen3 has the older "slick" slide coating that Glock no longer offers and being my EDC pistol I still don't have one scratch on the slide even though it is seated in and X Concealment kydex holster.
I've worked on the newer models changing springs and connectors and there is something about the newer ones I just "can't put my finger on" no pun intended.I don't like the newer finish nor some of the slide wear I've seen. I read a lot of recent posts about issues related to extractors, triggers and mim parts that years ago GLOCK never had. I've also read a lot of posts about people who are not concerned about scratches even on newly purchased guns because as they say "it's just a tool ",well each their own. Well I've spent a lot of hard earned money on this Glock addiction over the years and I found one Gen 3 model that performs flawlessly and looks aesthetically perfect. I have my "GLOCK PERFECTION" and I don't see that nor read that in the new models. Just my biased unwavering position !!!!

It seems that a lot of large police agencies are musical chair with service handguns this year, not just Glock.

Not sure I'm warmed up to the P227, personally.  Give me a tried and true P220 over it first.   Mags seem weak in comparison.

Maybe it wasn't put back together correctly in your frustration to get it running again?

Have you considered sending it back to glock and letting them make it right?

ISP

for the 227

Don't know how true it is, rumors were floating around that some of the higher ups were monkeying with the tests because they didn't like polymer guns. All the troops I talked to liked the 21.

Are you a certified Glock Armorer?

Aside from the County guys here (who have carried .357 229's for 300 years, all other departments (6 or 7) have switched to 17's. All gen 4 minus very small department that picked up gen 3's.

We switched last year right as I was getting on, and I was much happier with a 17 over a gen2 23.

The part you said about politics is 100% spot on

... and there are departments who would not give up their Glocks. The local city department carries Sig 220's. Have for the past 20 years.
New Chief wants to go all in for Glock 17's. (guess what gun they carried at his old job). They just have not gotten around to it.
We stuck with Gen3 Glock 22's, while San Antonio and Austin went to M&P40. So far they seem happy as we do.
On the other hand, TXDPS was going to M&P9 and went back to SIG. They reported problems.
Hmmmmmmmmm I dare to say that S.A. and Austin have more guns combined than TXDPS, and they have not had the issues reported that TXDPS has. From what I have learned it was political. One higher up was retiring and is/was going to work for S&W.

Sometimes even the best guns don't get adopted.
Ever see Police trade in Sigmas from the late 90's and early 2000's? They are out there. Even saw a Sigma marked "Niagara Falls PD"

LOL.

Just remember its never the Glock.

I completely agree.  

I think that Glock might be getting away from what made Glock pistols exceptional.  The whole Gen 4 thing is a bit suspicious...the sort of thing that is often driven by a corporate marketing department more than an engineering department.  IMO the very worst offender for this sort of thing is Smith & Wesson.  S&W used to make revolvers that were very well made and the designs made a lot of sense.  Now, their stuff looks very much designed around the latest fad.
I have a fourteen year old G26 (gen 3) that is abso-fucking-lutely rock solid reliable.....but the new gen 4 magazines don't fit it correctly.  They have a lot of play in the way they fit in the mag well and they exhibit a gap between the grip frame and the magazine baseplate (the old gen 3 mags fit absolutely perfectly).
Unfortunately, Glock is only going to manufacture the new style magazines so I have to search out gen 3 magazines for this bad boy at gun shows and on ebay....This is really disappointing from a company like Glock, unacceptable, really.

What is odd is that put old and new glocks side by side, stripped down or assembled, you'd be hard pressed to find any obvious reason why they would perform so differently.     The early to mid Gen 3's seem to have the best set of attributes.   Prior guns seem rougher and more crude.   The later Gen3's started getting MIM parts that made it easy to point fingers, but nothing so blatant as being able to is specifics.

I know about the extractors but do not think anyone can point to the problem on it.  Other than it is slightly different.

What does that mean?  "What that really was".  From my cursory study of it, it seemed liked the subcontractors changed the way they made the extractors and wammo, they didn't work so well any longer.  

My Glock experiences:

4 G17RTF2s = All perfect (Mxx, Nxx, Pxx series) except 1 FTE that was due to an underpowered round of WWB.
3 G3 G17s = 1 had constant BTF and shit ejection that Glock couldn't fix (Rxx series). 2 others were perfect (Lxx and Mxx series).
3 G3 G19s = 1 had bum extractor out the box (NVD series), but was fixed with new extractor. 1 had FTEs and doublefeeds (PPU series), and current one is fine so far (TBS series)
3 G4 G19s = 2 perfect, 1 had ejection issues (Rxx series with issue)
1 G4 G26 = Had to have 2 replacement recoil spring assemblies (Sxx series)
1 G3 G34= Perfect (Mxx series)

15 Glocks and 5 had issues.

Compared to 14 Beretta 92s (92Gs, 92FS', M9A1s, M9A1 Compacts, 92A1s, and a 90-two from 1991 to 2013) that had the following issue:
* 1 M9A1 that had an out-of-spec trigger bar that created a gritty trigger pull. Still worked, but replaced it anyways.

The only good thing I can say is the Glock's CS is beyond excellent in trying to get things right. Hell, I would swap this G19 for a G4 G17, but I'm wary of having to play switch the ejector, extractor combo to see if its going to be 100% again.

It seems to me we are just going through the results of all these gun companies ramping production up past QC abilities to keep up during the last big gun rush.  Having worked in QC for many years I've seen this happen many times before.  Once things go back to normal this will go back to former levels of quality which should be soon.  Until then this is going to keep happening, get a bad one, send it back and get it fixed or replaced.  That obviously doesn't account for every bad gun but it's my theory.  I would put it back to stock and send it back to Glock for fix or replace and then mod it however you like after that.  If it still doesn't work then maybe the G4 G41 just requires different mods than the G21 did.

The only Glocks I have seen with "Trigger reset issues" had aftermarket trigger springs installed. If you swap around springs, don't be surprised when a pistol goes down.

Or the owner.

It was the owners with Phase III malfunctions, original FCG discharges, E-series frame rails shearing off, the G36 period, 10 round magazines, Gen2 .40s bulged brass, Gen3 .40s weapon lights, Gen4 RSAs, post 2011 extraction/ejection, G21SF ambi mag releases, and the absolute shit stock sights?

Nah, Glock fucks up like anyone and puts shit out. The difference is they call their recalls "Upgrades" or quietly fixes them.

The fact that you'd sell a 100% gun tells me all I need to know.

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I have a brand new 686 that's like a piece of jewelry its so well fitted, and is an extremely classic design.  They make other revolvers for those that prefer different styling.  Are you complaining about having choices?  



Duty gun is a SIG 228.  Own 3 M&P's.  All run exceptionally well.  My Glock 27, circa 2005, gave my nothing but problems at first.  Back to Glock, they fixed it and all was well.  I would, and do, trust my life to any of these 3 manufacturers with which I have personal experience.  Any company can put out a problematic gun, but OP's multiple issues with different Glocks is troubling.  



 

GLOCK magazines has gotten longer, be design over time.  There are at least three distinct lengths I know of for the G19.

1. NDF (possibly very early) mag.  These have a base plate which is relived on the sides because the base plate sits partially within the frame when seated.

2. Fed AWB era LEO marked mag.  The base plate is not relieved, but its top edge is very close to bottom edge of the frame.

3. SF cut mags.  These have a easy 1/8" gap between the top of the base plate and the bottom of the frame.

Now I dumped my 26 and 22 for my 19 is 2009.  For the longest time all I have were post ban, SF style magazines.  So I never noticed this.  But I got a good deal on three used LEO marked DFs, and I noticed the lack of visible gap around the base pad.  I tough the SFs, which I have had and used for several years, were worn.  But when you line up the mags side by side, the SF(and Gen4) mags are that much longer in the tube.

My Gen4 G41 functions PERFECTLY, but is completely stock (except for aftermarket sights and a TLR-1 mounted)

My Gen4 G26 runs flawlessly.

I cannot offer any good suggestions to remedy your trigger failing to reset.....and others have already beat you up regarding aftermarket parts.....

If HK plays it right, they could take over a lion's share of Glock customers with their new VP9 type striker fired pistols.  I'm happy with my latest acquisitions, a gen4 19 and a 42, but, What HK is doing now looks pretty good and if they bring there price down a bit, BOOM.

I do not like the dipped extractors.

Are we living in an age where 100% service pistols are not to be expected? I expect a 100% gun, especially on the gold standard of Glocks.

Hell, S&W has publicly been improving the M&P9 constantly while Glock (and overzealous fanboys) just stick their fingers in their ears screaming "Perfection, Perfection, Perfection" until large LE contracts go to Sig, S&W, H&K etc.