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Posted: 4/27/2022 11:07:17 PM EDT
So I finally got the 10" 429DE barrel in. Because I don't reload and 429DE ammo is non-existent right now, I didn't shoot it much beyond taking the chronograph data, but here is what I got...
(I didn't get temp and humidity, but in was around 80F) Glacier Ridge factory ammo. 429DE 10" Barrel... 240gr averaged 1790fps/1708ft-lbs 210gr averaged 1943fps/1761ft-lbs Is anyone reloading this to see if this is maxed out or not? I am pleased with the results for sure. When ammo comes available, I will get some accuracy tests. I was able to hit a silhouette I have out at 175 yards, two of six shots. I will get at reasonable distances as soon as I get some ammo. MrBlackCat |
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Posted: 4/27/2022 11:49:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Hot damn!
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Posted: 4/28/2022 2:03:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RiverSwine45]
[#2]
I have 429DE dies.
I have 50 50AE cases I ran through and sized to 429DE. I have 100 brand new 429DE cases in a bag. I bought a 6" barrel (it was a 2 piece) but sent it back because they machined it cattywampus and I didn't want to try again with a replacement. |
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Posted: 4/28/2022 1:00:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By MrBlackCat: So I finally got the 10" 429DE barrel in. Great info! So was this the 10” .44 barrel you were going to have chamber reamed to .429, or has MRI released some new 10” barrels? |
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Posted: 4/28/2022 1:04:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Also, how was recoil compared to .44 Mag? How about compared to .50AE?
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Posted: 4/28/2022 4:46:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Originally Posted By GarrettJ: Great info! So was this the 10” .44 barrel you were going to have chamber reamed to .429, or has MRI released some new 10” barrels? Originally Posted By GarrettJ: Also, how was recoil compared to .44 Mag? How about compared to .50AE? I didn't rechamber that spare 44mag 10" barrel. I got this barrel from Magnum Research. Recoil seems lighter than most of the 50 I shoot... but I wasn't focused on that so much as not shooting the chronograph. (again) Yesterday I chrongraphed some of that Hyper Velocity PMC 44 Magnum 180gr. (rated 1750fps on the box) and recoil seemed pretty light also. I love that stuff, and it runs the Desert Eagle great... and I got it relatively inexpensive. (6" 1552fps/963ft-lbs, and 10" 1723fps/1187ft-lbs) MrBlackCat |
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Posted: 5/2/2022 2:35:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Originally Posted By MrBlackCat: Glacier Ridge factory ammo. 429DE 10" Barrel... 240gr averaged 1790fps/1708ft-lbs 210gr averaged 1943fps/1761ft-lbs Is anyone reloading this to see if this is maxed out or not? Based on your findings, I’m thinking we should be able to push a 180 gr. bullet pretty fast. As long as we can get one that will hold together at that speed. 
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Posted: 5/6/2022 11:25:22 PM EDT
[#7]
So I had emailed MRI last weekend, and got a reply on Monday. I was able to order a 10" .429 barrel, along with some brass, dies, and ammo. They only had a little ammo they had held back for people ordering barrels, and they would only let me order two boxes. That's ok. Having looked around, I'm glad to have gotten any.
The barrel was a bit tight, with the locking lever not wanting to latch on either of my guns. I did finally get it to latch in place, but it's still a bit tight getting the lever to open. It's manageable, and I suppose a little tight is better than it being sloppy. I've been looking around for load data, and have found a little but not much. I did post over in the Reloading Forum to see if anyone there has any insights. I have both Zero and Hornady XTP bullets in 240 gr. as well as some lighter and heavier XTPs. I'll try to try it out this weekend and report back. |
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Posted: 5/7/2022 9:48:09 AM EDT
[#8]
Got my barrel in earlier this week. Looks good and clicks in with no problems.
I wish I could find an old powley slide rule. I'm sure my uncle had one but he passed away a few years ago. He was into wildcat loads. I tried using the one online that's supposed to be made from the slide rule data but was having trouble doing it with my phone and I didn't write anything down that I got out of it. Will probably be a little while before I can get some time set aside to mess with this. @TonyRumore posted this in his 429DE thread. I'd really like to hear more. Originally Posted By TonyRumore: Possibly the ammo is loaded with the same 'ol H110/296 powder like has been done with magnum pistol cartridges for the last 50 years. That's what CorBon was using for the 440. When you neck a case down like that, you really need to run a slower powder to take advantage of it. H110/296 may be fine in the 50AE, but the 429 would probably work best with slower powders like 300-MP, 1680, 5744, LT-30 etc. Tony I have some IMR4227 on the shelf that I set aside for this but I'm willing to try what Tony was suggesting too. |
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Posted: 5/7/2022 9:55:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MrBlackCat]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarrettJ: So I had emailed MRI last weekend, and got a reply on Monday. I was able to order a 10" .429 barrel, along with some brass, dies, and ammo. They only had a little ammo they had held back for people ordering barrels, and they would only let me order two boxes. That's ok. Having looked around, I'm glad to have gotten any. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarrettJ: So I had emailed MRI last weekend, and got a reply on Monday. I was able to order a 10" .429 barrel, along with some brass, dies, and ammo. They only had a little ammo they had held back for people ordering barrels, and they would only let me order two boxes. That's ok. Having looked around, I'm glad to have gotten any. Originally Posted By GarrettJ: The barrel was a bit tight, with the locking lever not wanting to latch on either of my guns. I did finally get it to latch in place, but it's still a bit tight getting the lever to open. It's manageable, and I suppose a little tight is better than it being sloppy. Basically every barrel I have gotten from MR in the last few years I had to fit to a frame... better than loose. I use a drum sander (with a diameter just under the radius of the locking cam) on a Dremel drill press with a slide block fixture the barrel sits in, to sand the cam precisely and square. This is probably way overkill I realize. On my 10" and 6" 429 barrels, I removed about five thousandths of an inch (0.005) for a less than "interference fit" though, so it would be really easy to over do it. It is important to understand where the material needs to be removed, which is why I use dye and increments of a thousandth or so. Sometimes the barrel is too far forward, and sometimes it is too low... you need to know if it is both or one in order to achieve optimal lock. Maybe I should do a pictorial thread on barrel fitting, but that too is probably overkill. Originally Posted By GarrettJ: I have both Zero and Hornady XTP bullets in 240 gr. as well as some lighter and heavier XTPs. I'll try to try it out this weekend and report back. I don't reload yet, but I did buy dies as soon as they were available and plan to get into loading later. I really want to see if accuracy dies a brutal death with hyper velocities, or if it stays stable. Throwing a little fat bullet 210gr (or less) at nearly 2000 fps is REALLY asking for instability I would think... but then I think of some of the stuff I have put through the 460 S&W with an 8" barrel. In just thinking about magnum handgun stuff... I have yet to buy an FK BRNO for multiple reasons, but if you look at ballistics of the 7.5, while it is fast and fun, the 429DE really overshadows it in most ways, and without a proprietary bullet. I would love to see a side by side comparison of these two. MrBlackCat |
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Posted: 5/9/2022 3:31:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GarrettJ]
[#10]
All good so far. I haven’t started working up loads yet, but I did get out this weekend and put a few rounds through the .429 barrel.
Although just a small sampling, the gun ran flawlessly with the new barrel. The Glacier Ridge 240 gr. ammo shot an average of 1753 fps. over my chronograph. And elevation was spot on, which hasn’t always been the case with Desert Eagle barrels / sights. Windage was off a bit, hitting about 6” to the right at 25 yards. That’s easy enough to fix. Group size was right at 2” at that distance. I’m thinking of pulling a Leupold 2X scope off one of my other DE barrels and mounting on this one. Recoil seemed a bit less than shooting .50 AE. That could be due to the smaller, lighter bullet. Or it could just be the difference in shooting a 10” barrel vs. a 6” barrel. One observation: the .429 brass ejects to the left. All other cartridges I’ve shot through a Desert Eagle ejects over my right shoulder. That includes shooting .44 and .50 through this same gun, using the same bolt assembly. Kind of interesting. There were some interesting brass marks on the barrel after firing 20 rounds. As seen below:  Here you can see the left-ejecting .429 brass.  Desert Eagle .429 DE vs .50 AE |
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Posted: 5/9/2022 7:00:09 PM EDT
[#11]
That's weird ejecting to the left and the marks on the barrel. I wonder if the slide moves faster with this caliber.
You said elevation was good, does yours have the tall fwd sight? |
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Posted: 5/9/2022 8:30:34 PM EDT
[#12]
I have also noted the odd ejection patterns... Tony Rumore said the 44 CorBon did the same I believe. Mine is more likely to eject to the left or straight back just over or into my head... annoying, but not a deal breaker. But I have had it eject at just about every degree within a 90 degree quadrant rearward.
Slow-mo shows the case angle change rapidly exiting the chamber because of the neck-down, and then bounces off of the barrel extension lugs which causes the inconsistent direction... although Garrets looked pretty consistent. :D Those brass skid marks on the extension face are interesting... I haven't seen it that "strong" before, but I have seen it when shooting weaker rounds that barely eject. Thanks for the info and video! :) MrBlackCat |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2022 2:23:37 PM EDT
[#13]
@MrBlackCat
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MrBlackCat: I didn't rechamber that spare 44mag 10" barrel. I got this barrel from Magnum Research. Recoil seems lighter than most of the 50 I shoot... but I wasn't focused on that so much as not shooting the chronograph. (again) Yesterday I chrongraphed some of that Hyper Velocity PMC 44 Magnum 180gr. (rated 1750fps on the box) and recoil seemed pretty light also. I love that stuff, and it runs the Desert Eagle great... and I got it relatively inexpensive. (6" 1552fps/963ft-lbs, and 10" 1723fps/1187ft-lbs) MrBlackCat Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MrBlackCat: Originally Posted By GarrettJ: Great info! So was this the 10” .44 barrel you were going to have chamber reamed to .429, or has MRI released some new 10” barrels? Originally Posted By GarrettJ: Also, how was recoil compared to .44 Mag? How about compared to .50AE? I didn't rechamber that spare 44mag 10" barrel. I got this barrel from Magnum Research. Recoil seems lighter than most of the 50 I shoot... but I wasn't focused on that so much as not shooting the chronograph. (again) Yesterday I chrongraphed some of that Hyper Velocity PMC 44 Magnum 180gr. (rated 1750fps on the box) and recoil seemed pretty light also. I love that stuff, and it runs the Desert Eagle great... and I got it relatively inexpensive. (6" 1552fps/963ft-lbs, and 10" 1723fps/1187ft-lbs) MrBlackCat Agreed and good data MrBlackCat! That is about on par with what Hickock-45 showed with his chrono'd YouTube in FPS increase wise going from a 3" Barrel to a 6" barrel to a 10" barreled .44Magnum (same factory Federal loaded ammo I believe it was)... which was about a 40FPS per inch of barrel-length increase... In my experience Below: Different situation/guns but going from a 3" barreled Smith to an 18.5" barreled carbine Ruger (same-ammo) Underwood Hard-Casts 305grain rated at 1325fps from a 6" barrel advertised velocity... Even at 150 yards the carbine was deforming a 1/2" AR-500 hardened plate that the 3" and 6" Smith M629's wouldn't divot a 40+Yards. Plus the fact going from Revolver's with a cylinder gap to a fully Seated and Chambered "Semi-Auto Carbine" added some pep too in my case, (didn't have a chrono that day with me at the farm.) I love seeing how differently the Exact Same Ammo reacts from longer barrels. Thanks for posting those numbers "MrBlackCat!" Pic of 12"x18" AR-500 Silhouette that was cratered at 150 Yards. Even with the Heavies the POA to POI was only about 3 inches low with the Ruger Carbine that was previously dope'd at 75Yards for woods/brush hunting. So I dope'd the scope to 150Yard distance (after seeing how repeatable at distance) appropriately so she'd be predictable with the same ammo from between 100 to 200 Yards hold-under OR hold-over hash marks. Pic of cratered Plate Below... Crater's are the fat meplated/splat marks and all are 2+mm's deep... Pretty impressive on such hard steel at 150 Yards from a Handgun Round even from a Carbine... She's my Brush Deer-Gun since the last 2 seasons with good results same ammo and Nikon...  |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2022 6:02:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TonyRumore]
[#14]
Yeah, my old 440 Corbon gun would eject to the left like that from time to time, but usually, the cases just came straight back and hit me between the eyes. I sold it for that reason alone.
And no, there was no limp wristing. In fact it made no difference if I death gripped the gun or held it lightly. My 10" 429 barrel should be here in the next couple of days. If I get some time, I'll try and work up some loads with powders slower than H110. I have about 130 different powders on hand and an indoor range to test on. Tony |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 6:40:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TonyRumore: Yeah, my old 440 Corbon gun would eject to the left like that from time to time, but usually, the cases just came straight back and hit me between the eyes. I sold it for that reason alone. And no, there was no limp wristing. In fact it made no difference if I death gripped the gun or held it lightly. My 10" 429 barrel should be here in the next couple of days. If I get some time, I'll try and work up some loads with powders slower than H110. I have about 130 different powders on hand and an indoor range to test on. Tony We're not worthy! 
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Posted: 5/14/2022 10:47:32 PM EDT
[#16]
So I mounted a scope on the .429 barrel and took it out to sight in. I really need to get a high-speed camera on this thing to see what the brass is doing as the gun cycles.
I thought with the scope hanging partially over where the shell ejects, it would help deflect it to one side or the other. It did get it so it wasn’t ejecting left so much. But it did start launching the back at my forehead about half of the time. What’s even more odd, I don’t see any brass marks on the bottom of the scope, as one might expect. But I do have some marks on the rear of the scope bell, at about the three o’clock position. How does it manage to do that?  Here is where the scope is located in relation to the ejection port. I think I’ll move it farther forward. 
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Posted: 5/15/2022 8:56:25 AM EDT
[#17]
The only possible thing I can think of, is the brass is extracted, then started to eject, but the slide starts moving forward before the brass actually clears the path of the slide and then the slide/bolt hits to brass on it's way back forward, knocking it into the back of the barrel and causing to to bounce off and then it can and will go anywhere depending on the orientation of the brass when it hits and bounces off the barrel breech. (think pinball with with brass/gun)
It could possibly be the different recoil impulse of the 429 causing a slightly different movement of the gun tilting up at the front and back and it is following the path of the ejecting brass, and causing what I just described above. That might also explain the brass marks on the scope. Hopefully one does not end up hitting and cracking the lens. But this is all just a wild guess. I too would love to see a slow motion of this!!! |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 11:33:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Thanks for the images Garrett.
I see what Jeeps and Guns is saying for sure... it could be forward travel. I also have a scope with those same marks... I don't know what caliber it was because I didn't find them until later and that scope was shot with all calibers. What I can tell you from the few times I have done slow motion is that the 429DE tilts violently upward on extraction compared to 50 AE. I am almost certain what you are seeing is nicks from the spinning brass... Here is why... As the 429 extracts, the neck-down causes the shell to twist up and to the right a LOT earlier than the 50AE. The very front of the rim then hits the barrel extension lugs in slightly varying positions which makes the simi-random angle. In contrast, the other calibers only contact the locking lugs if the gun is super dirty and there is low slide velocities. It makes the cases spin in the air sometimes, far more than other calibers. The cuts in your scope aren't clearly upward, so this might not be the case here, but what I am saying is that the slow motion I did showed spinning upward cases at random angles because of varying impact points to the barrel extension locking lugs. Next time I borrow the slow-mo camera I will try to get them something down to post on the internet, or at least clip images from it to better explain. Looking at it, my reaction was kind of "oh, not likely anything you can do about that." However... you can alter the ejector pin and spring, as I did for 357 Magnum to reduce the nicks on the top right of my slide... maybe something can be done similarly for the 429DE. I would have to really look into the physics, but I still have the 357 Magnum formulas to start from. Micro-physics like this have almost no deviation allowance. Much to think about. :D MrBlackCat |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 12:47:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MrBlackCat: As the 429 extracts, the neck-down causes the shell to twist up and to the right a LOT earlier than the 50AE. So probably related in some manner, I have noticed the ejector mark on the brass is different with the .429 vs. any other calibers. You typically get the little 1/8” circle on the brass from the ejector. But with the .429 it looks like the ejector mark is smeared. I’m trying to picture when this happens in the ejection cycle, and what must be going on. It would seem the case is rotating while still pressed against the bolt face. Take a look at the mark on the .50 compared to that on the .429 case. 
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Posted: 5/15/2022 2:02:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarrettJ: So probably related in some manner, I have noticed the ejector mark on the brass is different with the .429 vs. any other calibers. You typically get the little 1/8” circle on the brass from the ejector. But with the .429 it looks like the ejector mark is smeared. I’m trying to picture when this happens in the ejection cycle, and what must be going on. It would seem the case is rotating while still pressed against the bolt face. Take a look at the mark on the .50 compared to that on the .429 case. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/55694/0671302C-3794-451E-8E41-615F44BB58C0-2384814.jpg The case isn't rotating with the bolt when it unlocks probably. Can see a little smear at the extractor too. |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 3:13:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RiverSwine45: The case isn't rotating with the bolt when it unlocks probably. Can see a little smear at the extractor too. Yep, kind of what I was thinking. Not sure why it does it with this cartridge and none of the others, though. Anyone else notice this with the .429? |
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Posted: 5/15/2022 3:29:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarrettJ: Yep, kind of what I was thinking. Not sure why it does it with this cartridge and none of the others, though. Anyone else notice this with the .429? I'm thinking it may be the chamber. Mine, hopefully this shows up, it does on my phone.  Attached FileWe may need MrBlackCat to give us a tutorial on his polishing techniques. |
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Posted: 5/16/2022 10:11:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Woke up early today.
Just a teaser picture for now. Won't be able to get to the range for a few days.  Attached File |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2022 7:12:30 PM EDT
[#24]
That ejector smear makes me think the bolt might be rotating a bit early. Maybe the gas port needs to be moved out toward the muzzle.
Tony |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 8:48:25 AM EDT
[#25]
On rifles, when you see ejector swipe marks, that typically indicates a higher pressure round where the bolt is opening when there is still a lot of pressure in the barrel and the brass is still being held in the chamber.
Maybe try a a lighter charge, or use a different powder? The burn rate might not be optional for that cartridge, bullet weight, gun, and barrel length? I checked my copy of quickload and it does not have 429 DE, only 440 corbon. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 12:37:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote History[b]Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-G I checked my copy of quickload and it does not have 429 DE, only 440 corbon. As a non-reloader, I just have to ask from a physics standpoint, how could 44 CorBon loadings be any different from 429DE? Curious... MrBlackCat |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:28:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: Maybe try a a lighter charge, or use a different powder? The burn rate might not be optional for that cartridge, bullet weight, gun, and barrel length? Brass from factory ammo looks the same. Not sure if it’s an issue specific to my barrel or more of a general thing with this cartridge. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 6:32:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GarrettJ]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: I checked my copy of quickload and it does not have 429 DE, only 440 corbon. Where the two cartridges are so close to each other, I suspect one could use the data interchangeably. And especially where there seems to be no published data for the .429 DE, using .440 CB data as a starting point makes sense. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 8:48:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Having not compared the two side by side, I can not comment on how close or different they are.
Does anyone have any of the "blueprints" of them to see the differences? Is it just the length of the necks? If you want to PM me, I can run some loads for 440 through quickload and let you know what they show. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 7:21:20 PM EDT
[#30]
I also have Gordons reloading tool (similar to quickload). I checked it and it does not have the 429 DE, and does not even have 440 corbon.
I emailed quickload and asked if the newest update (as of last month) has 429DE and I actually got a response today. She said it was just approved for SAAMI Spec late Jan/Feb, so it is not in their database yet, but "most likely will be in their next release". She said wait until june and email first to check and see if they added it. Just a heads up if you were thinking about getting quickload. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 10:17:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Made it out to the range today.
The 50AE cases I resized to 429DE wouldn't let the bolt close completely. So that was disappointing. It rotates the bolt far enough that it locks the slide up needing tools and gentle prying to open. I was dumb enough to try with 5 different rounds before I gave up on those  The 429DE factory cases cycled fine. While it didn't eject them into the same tight pile at 5 o'clock like the other calibers do with mine they all were found a couple feet to my right at 3 o'clock. I loaded these with IMR4227 and 240gr xtreme RNFP. Started these at 23 grains and went up to 27 grains for this batch.  Attached File23 grain of IMR4227 in a 429DE case only got to 1248 fps. In comparison the 44mag next to it was 23gr of IMR4227 also and got 1380 fps out of my 10" barrel. The Lee book says that's a compressed load for 240gr 44 mag and others list it as max. The highest load I had made was 27 grain and it got to 1448 fps. It's the bottom one in the picture. I have a dental mold kit that I'm going to check this chamber with and figure out what I have going on with these resized cases. |
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Posted: 5/29/2022 6:55:19 PM EDT
[#32]
So I just posted some more info in the .429 reloading thread.
I had moved the scope a little farther forward, and I don’t think the brass is hitting the back end of the scope as much now. It still will toss brass just about anywhere. The accuracy at the higher loadings using H110 seems to be better (not a surprise with this powder). After collecting chrono data and sighting in from moving the scope, I moved over to the 100 yard range. I have an 8”x10” steel plate that I was shooting at. First I was shooting from the bench, and then shooting offhand and out of two magazines I think i hit it all but a couple of times. I think I’m going to have to put some paper targets out there and see what kind of groups I can get at 100 yards. And then if that’s ok, maybe stretch out to 200 yards and see how bad the drop is at that distance. |
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Posted: 5/30/2022 7:57:10 AM EDT
[#33]
Cross posted from GarrettJ reloading thread.
I haven't had a chance to shoot a mold of the barrel chamber yet but I did measure all 3 of my shell plates. They all came in at 0.125 in height to the contact of the bottom of the sizing die. I also measured the shoulders of my 50AE cases I resized to 429DE and they are 0.018" further up compared to a factory 429DE case. Which would explain why the bolt wouldn't lock. I'm going to mold the exterior of the 2 cases as well to check the shoulder angle. I haven't committed to having the die shaved down yet.  Attached FileLee doesn't give you much to work with for case dimensions here
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OK, USA
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Posted: 6/2/2022 5:52:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TonyRumore]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RiverSwine45: I haven't committed to having the die shaved down yet. You can shave the shell holder. It doesn't need to be precise. Just hit it with a grinder. Tony |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 6/2/2022 6:10:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TonyRumore]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RiverSwine45: Lee doesn't give you much to work with for case dimensions here FWIW, I made a 440 Corbon case gauge using an original 440 Chamber Reamer and go no-go gauges. I set the top of the case gauge flush with the 440 Go gauge. Then I dropped an HSM 429 factory round into the gauge and put a depth micrometer on it. The factory 429DE dropped .013" below the top of the 440 Corbon gauge. Typically, your ammo should run anywhere from .003-.005 below the top of the gauge. Personally, I set my dies at .003" but mass produced ammo is usually a bit more, since there are quite a few variables in chamber depth, etc. With that in mind, if you were to fire 429 ammo from your 440 barrel, you would have quite a bit of head space, but it would "probably" still work. If the chamber is on the long end of the tolerance, you could have as much as .019" head space. If it's on the short end, you would be at .014" head space. That's quite a bit by anyone's standard. With all that said, you can probably fire a 429 round from a 440 barrel (with lots of head space), but a 440 should not chamber in a 429 barrel. This is all assuming the HSM ammo is within reasonable spec. Tony |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 11:13:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RiverSwine45: The 50AE cases I resized to 429DE wouldn't let the bolt close completely. So that was disappointing. It rotates the bolt far enough that it locks the slide up needing tools and gentle prying to open... Ok, update here. I had tried reforming one .50 AE case, and it fed and functioned just fine. No issues. But that was a sample size of one. I have worked through my supply of new .429 cases and I'm onto my second loading on these cases. All of the sudden I'm having the same issues as RiverSwine45. The loaded cartridges won't quite chamber all the way, leaving the bolt partially locked, but not fully. So the slide is 1/8" to 1/4" from being fully closed, and you end up with a locked up gun that won't fire (which is good, in this condition), and won't extract. I ended up using a wooden dowel and a mallet to get the slide opened. What is also confusing is that the cartridges appear to drop fully into the chamber without issue. I may try to contact Lee and see if they have any suggestions. I expect they will want me to send the die back for them to look at. I'll let you know what happens. Until then, I have around 50 loaded rounds that are questionable and one box of factory ammo that I can't find any replacements for at the moment. So this barrel will be sitting in the safe until I can get get this sorted out. 
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Posted: 6/4/2022 12:51:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RiverSwine45]
[#37]
Well that certainly sucks to hear.
I'm sure you saw this bit if you didn't. Another cross post from GarrettJ 429DE reloading thread. Yup, cases were lubed for resizing including the inside with a q tip. I'm using a RCBS rock chucker and Lee dies as well. I did some plunk tests.  Attached File1st is a factory 429DE case that's been fired, 0.362" to the back of the barrel hood. 2nd is a resized starline 50AE case, 0.360" 3rd is a factory 429DE case straight out of the bag, 0.372" 4th is a loaded round from a resized starline 50AE case, 0.357 The only one that didn't plunk into place was the 1st one, it's been fire formed so I expected that. When I fired it the slide had no issue closing the bolt. I don't really see the 0.018" difference I was measuring at the shoulders earlier but it was definitely repeatable. Maybe this new barrel is like the old WASRs that had to be hand cycled 100x's + to smooth out. I'm going to put these resized cases on the back burner for now and just use the factory ones till this gets some miles on it. ETA The dents in the bullet are from messing with it at the range |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 7:09:44 PM EDT
[#38]
I edited my post above after reading @TonyRumore post here multiple times over.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TonyRumore: FWIW, I made a 440 Corbon case gauge using an original 440 Chamber Reamer and go no-go gauges. I set the top of the case gauge flush with the 440 Go gauge. Then I dropped an HSM 429 factory round into the gauge and put a depth micrometer on it. The factory 429DE dropped .013" below the top of the 440 Corbon gauge. Typically, your ammo should run anywhere from .003-.005 below the top of the gauge. Personally, I set my dies at .003" but mass produced ammo is usually a bit more, since there are quite a few variables in chamber depth, etc. With that in mind, if you were to fire 429 ammo from your 440 barrel, you would have quite a bit of head space, but it would "probably" still work. If the chamber is on the long end of the tolerance, you could have as much as .019" head space. If it's on the short end, you would be at .014" head space. That's quite a bit by anyone's standard. With all that said, you can probably fire a 429 round from a 440 barrel (with lots of head space), but a 440 should not chamber in a 429 barrel. This is all assuming the HSM ammo is within reasonable spec. Tony Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TonyRumore: Originally Posted By RiverSwine45: Lee doesn't give you much to work with for case dimensions here FWIW, I made a 440 Corbon case gauge using an original 440 Chamber Reamer and go no-go gauges. I set the top of the case gauge flush with the 440 Go gauge. Then I dropped an HSM 429 factory round into the gauge and put a depth micrometer on it. The factory 429DE dropped .013" below the top of the 440 Corbon gauge. Typically, your ammo should run anywhere from .003-.005 below the top of the gauge. Personally, I set my dies at .003" but mass produced ammo is usually a bit more, since there are quite a few variables in chamber depth, etc. With that in mind, if you were to fire 429 ammo from your 440 barrel, you would have quite a bit of head space, but it would "probably" still work. If the chamber is on the long end of the tolerance, you could have as much as .019" head space. If it's on the short end, you would be at .014" head space. That's quite a bit by anyone's standard. With all that said, you can probably fire a 429 round from a 440 barrel (with lots of head space), but a 440 should not chamber in a 429 barrel. This is all assuming the HSM ammo is within reasonable spec. Tony Thanks for the input Tony. I have a couple Lee shell holders in this size so one of them is going to get 0.022" knocked off its face. That should give me a cushion to play with the headspace difference I had from my resized cases vs factory new & fire formed cases. |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 8:37:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RiverSwine45: I have a couple Lee shell holders in this size so one of them is going to get 0.022" knocked off its face. The daughter’s boyfriend works at a machine shop and is going to throw the shell holder on a surface grinder for me. I’m thinking I’ll start a bit less and only take off .008” initially. I’ll see what that does and then go more if needed. |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 11:10:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarrettJ: The daughter’s boyfriend works at a machine shop and is going to throw the shell holder on a surface grinder for me. I’m thinking I’ll start a bit less and only take off .008” initially. I’ll see what that does and then go more if needed. That certainly will make it easy. I spent a few minutes working mine down with a flat stone. Well I thought I was working it down when checked it I had only gone about 0.001" lol these things are hard as woodpeckers lips.
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Posted: 6/5/2022 10:54:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RiverSwine45]
[#41]
@GarrettJ
@MrBlackCat @TonyRumore @ anyoneelsethatboughtoneofthese10"barrels I was thinking about a few things this morning. The 6" 429DE barrels have been around for a while now, same with the Lee dies for it. In all the reading I've seen from the small handful of people that have made some loads and posted on other forums I haven't read anything of people having an issue with headspace and a locked up slide. I'm wondering if it's the chamber cut on these 10" barrels now. May explain GarrettJ smear marks on his spent cases too because those primers certainly didn't look like I would have expected. I'm going to shoot a mold of the chamber tomorrow morning and read it on the comparator tomorrow night. Guess I'll have to call MR to get the actual dimensions too. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 10:08:35 AM EDT
[#42]
Bolt open line out to the barrel hood edge and a plug of the chamber with the bolt closed.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 7:02:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GarrettJ]
[#43]
I’ve been out of town for the past week and hadn’t had a chance to mess with this during that time.
I did not take initial measurements of the shell holder before sending it off to be machined. But comparing to the Lee shell holder that came with my .50 AE dies, the reworked one is now .013” shorter. Just to verify how things should work, I took a loaded factory cartridge, placed it in the chamber and eased the slide closed. I was able to fully close the slide with just a little pressure. I then took one of my reloaded cartridges and repeated the process. The slide refused to close the last quarter inch or so. I tried another reloaded cartridge, with the same results. I then pulled the bullets on these two reloaded cartridges and tried closing the slide on the empty brass, to ensure it wasn’t something the bullet was causing. The slide failed to close again. I then screwed the sizing die down to where the ram of the press would just cam over on the modified shell holder, and I resized one of the cases that I had pulled the bullet from. I then wiped off the case lube and tried it in the chamber. The slide closed easily. I then tried the other pulled and resized case, also with good results. Next up I plan to load some cases that have been resized using the modified shell holder and try some live fire testing. First I have around 50 cartridges to tear down so I can resize those cases as well. More to come. |
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Posted: 6/18/2022 7:54:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GarrettJ]
[#44]
Finally got out to shoot today. With the reworked shell holder, everything chambered and fired correctly.
Seems like something a person could address with a stone on either the shell holder or the bottom of the die. Just go slow and be sure to keep the face square. |
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Posted: 6/22/2022 8:24:13 PM EDT
[#45]
I haven't had any time to mess with this yet, haven't even measured the chamber plug I made.
Only thing I have to report is I did order a box of 200 grain 44s from xtreme for this. GarrettJ glad that shave on the shell holder worked out. I'll get to mine soon I hope. |
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Posted: 6/27/2022 9:57:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RiverSwine45]
[#46]
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Posted: 3/20/2023 10:00:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Has anyone pushed the .429 past say 30gr of H110? I'm waiting for warmer weather before I got any hotter, but I'm sitting around 1,500 fps in 32F from the 6" with 30gr. Brass looks fine. No ejector marks, primers nice and round..
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