Does the Glock 21SF denote the death of the .45 GAP? It seems like the SF accomplishes the original goal of the .45 GAP except that it does it better and more intellegently. Nevertheless, I still like the G37/G38 and would like to own one, but not if ammo will cease to exist in the near future. This time last year, I thought ammo would be more prevalent, but its pretty tough to find locally and your choices are extremely limited.

I purchased a G21SF LE with night sights and the 1913 rail and I love it. I have smaller hands and thus tend to gravitate towards smaller guns, but this is probably the most comfortable gun I have ever held/shot.Its a little on the larger side but it fits my hand perfectly and just "feels right". I swore I would never buy another .45 but I couldn't resist as I love this gun. Besides, 14 rounds of Corbon 185grn +P DPX*as its presently loaded with* is pretty hard to argue with. As much as I love my SF, I would still really like a G38. This seems like it would be a great CCW weapon.

G37/G38's can be had for a song around here and they are very tempting. What do you guys think? Buy one or not? Do you see Glock making these guns in 3 years? Do you think top quality JHP's will be availibe for it, as well as practice ammo? I would hate to buy one and have the support system evaporate the next day.

I think it is/was an absolute failure. Glock's attempt to attach thier name to a cartridge like other manufacturer's such as .40 Smith and Wesson, .357 Sig, .450 Bushmaster, and so on, was simply marketing. They did not, and still havent, truly listened to what shooters are craving. Most all can agree that a single stack, 8 or 9 shot, slim line (g36 profile), 5" bbl, 45acp would be a serious contender to the 1911. Or a more compact and slim 9mm, a 26 streamlined so-to-speak. Instead, Glock took a normal 17/22 frame, and fit a fat 21 slide on top, shortened our beloved 45acp, and marketed the monstrosity as the best thing since sliced bread.....

As for being in production in a few years; your guess is as good as mine. I think if Glock did cease production on the GAP series, I think it would be thier first production halt on a firearm model.

Ammo availability? Again, probably a crap shoot. If it's hard to get now, it will be on down the road. Of course, somebody, somewhere, will probably be selling a box or two at a lil higher price.

And I am not a Glock hater by any means, I own two, I just wish some companies would be a little more responsive to shooters.

GAP will die a slow death.  I think the XD with the same grip on both the 45 acp and gap proves there is no reason for it.

NYSP uses the .45 GAP.  I have no idea why they would do that.

One person on Glocktalk said they called the four major ammo manufacturers, and they all claimed they are increasing GAP ammo production to keep up with sales.  Several state agencies have adopted and issue the GAP, several more smaller agancies continue to add the GAPs to their authorized carry lists, and the 21SF grip is still much larger than the G37 grip.  Albeit, at a loss of some ammo capacity.

I have found that the only people that don't like the GAP, are those who have never tried it before.

No... I do not think the G21SF is the death of the .45GAP.  I think that was more a design attempt to get a US government contract for a .45acp, much like the M&P45 was from S&W.

The advantage of .45GAP is a pistol that has the size and grip diameter of a hi-cap 9mm or .40 S&W, but it shoots a .45 caliber round at .45acp +P performance levels.  Many LEO agencies can't in a blanket issue, have a .45acp pistol that fits the hands of all their officers.  It is a good compromise of pistol size and caliber performance.

I have always liked a 1911, but as a career LE firearms instructor (20 years as a firearms & tactics instructor) would never dream of issuing to a full agency cocked & locked pistols.  Bluntly... the majority of the cops ARE NOT gun people.  It would be a dangerous move to issue a cocked & locked 1911 to every member of a department/agency.  Beyond that... factor the variety in hand size of the department/agency... and the big SIG, Glock 21, HK, etc .45acps would not be a size to "fit all".  A closer fit (and yes there are officers with small hands that double stack mag pistols do not work well) would be a .45 caliber weapon that is the size of a 9mm/.40S&W.  I think the goal was to decrease the size of the pistol in .45 cal, not to have a caliber named after Gaston.

I have both a G21 (also a G20) and a midsize Glock .45GAP.  I like the size of the .45 GAP pistol better.  ...and yes I have owned and tried the G30 GLock in .45acp... I like the .45 GAP better!

I often hear that vanity complaint about the .45GAP, but don't seem to hear it associated to .357 SIG, .40 S&W, .204 Ruger, .375 Holland & Holland, .454 Casull, .50 Alaskan, etc.  Go figure!!

It always in my experience has been the Glock haters that point out the "vanity" issue of the caliber.

Remember... S&W once had a pistol which was standard issue to a number of police department (Kansas City, MO for example) that had a decocker like a SIG.  SIG sued S&W for patent infringement and won!  That pistol was never again made by S&W.  There are those that say the Sigma and M&P series of S&W pistols are the only good polymer pistol.  Well guess what... that was also a patent infringement law suit against S&W, this time by Glock.  It was not a tough fight for Glock, when you could drop a GLOCK 9mm barrel into a 9mm Sigma and it worked!!!  However, Gaston took a cash settlement and had no problem letting S&W continue with the line of pistol as long as S&W paid royalties for the stolen design.

Admittedly, the .45 GAP is not as popular as the .357 SIG... but I think like the .357 SIG the following will grow!

I still say a lot of this is Glock bashing, which I think is a bit funny when I at times see it coming from Sigma & M&P Smith shooters, who are basically shooting a S&W manufactured Glock!!!  S&W also makes a 1911... I guess... literally... S&W feels any idea worth having is worth stealing.  

Quoted: I think it is/was an absolute failure. Glock's attempt to attach thier name to a cartridge like other manufacturer's such as .40 Smith and Wesson, .357 Sig, .450 Bushmaster, and so on, was simply marketing. They did not, and still havent, truly listened to what shooters are craving. Most all can agree that a single stack, 8 or 9 shot, slim line (g36 profile), 5" bbl, 45acp would be a serious contender to the 1911. Or a more compact and slim 9mm, a 26 streamlined so-to-speak. Instead, Glock took a normal 17/22 frame, and fit a fat 21 slide on top, shortened our beloved 45acp, and marketed the monstrosity as the best thing since sliced bread..... As for being in production in a few years; your guess is as good as mine. I think if Glock did cease production on the GAP series, I think it would be thier first production halt on a firearm model. Ammo availability? Again, probably a crap shoot. If it's hard to get now, it will be on down the road. Of course, somebody, somewhere, will probably be selling a box or two at a lil higher price. And I am not a Glock hater by any means, I own two, I just wish some companies would be a little more responsive to shooters.

The G17L and G24 seem to be out of production - I'll ask tomorrow, I'm going for my Armorers re-cert.According to Glock armorer instructor, 24 & 17L are out of production. .45 G.A.P. is alive and well, according to factory numbers - at least 4 large agencies have adopted it

Last I checked, Glock was doing limited runs each year. But it's been a while.

Either way, be sure to give us an update

Quoted: No... I do not think the G21SF is the death of the .45GAP.  I think that was more a design attempt to get a US government contract for a .45acp, much like the M&P45 was from S&W.How could it be to win a gov't contract, when the contract specs were for a .45ACP? The advantage of .45GAP is a pistol that has the size and grip diameter of a hi-cap 9mm or .40 S&W, but it shoots a .45 caliber round at .45acp +P performance levels.  Many LEO agencies can't in a blanket issue, have a .45acp pistol that fits the hands of all their officers.  It is a good compromise of pistol size and caliber performance. It still doesnt shoot the 230's at +p velocity. I agree w/ the rest of your statement. I have always liked a 1911, but as a career LE firearms instructor (20 years as a firearms & tactics instructor) would never dream of issuing to a full agency cocked & locked pistols.  Bluntly... the majority of the cops ARE NOT gun people.  It would be a dangerous move to issue a cocked & locked 1911 to every member of a department/agency.  Beyond that... factor the variety in hand size of the department/agency... and the big SIG, Glock 21, HK, etc .45acps would not be a size to "fit all".  A closer fit (and yes there are officers with small hands that double stack mag pistols do not work well) would be a .45 caliber weapon that is the size of a 9mm/.40S&W.  I think the goal was to decrease the size of the pistol in .45 cal, not to have a caliber named after Gaston.I agree 100%, except for the last portion. I worked for a large distributor at the time of the GAP's initial release, and I see the GAP for what it is, market hype and good advertising. And I will hand it to Glock; they know how to advertise. I have both a G21 (also a G20) and a midsize Glock .45GAP.  I like the size of the .45 GAP pistol better.  ...and yes I have owned and tried the G30 GLock in .45acp... I like the .45 GAP better!Shot both also. To each his own. I often hear that vanity complaint about the .45GAP, but don't seem to hear it associated to .357 SIG, .40 S&W, .204 Ruger, .375 Holland & Holland, .454 Casull, .50 Alaskan, etc.  Go figure!!It's not vanity. It's a fact that having a name associated with something such as a cartridge, helps sales. To quote Mayor Nagin, it "keeps the brand out there." It always in my experience has been the Glock haters that point out the "vanity" issue of the caliber.No one has claimed to be a Glock-hater. Just discussing the possible death of the GAP cartridge....lol. Remember... S&W once had a pistol which was standard issue to a number of police department (Kansas City, MO for example) that had a decocker like a SIG.  SIG sued S&W for patent infringement and won!  That pistol was never again made by S&W.  There are those that say the Sigma and M&P series of S&W pistols are the only good polymer pistol.  Well guess what... that was also a patent infringement law suit against S&W, this time by Glock.  It was not a tough fight for Glock, when you could drop a GLOCK 9mm barrel into a 9mm Sigma and it worked!!!  However, Gaston took a cash settlement and had no problem letting S&W continue with the line of pistol as long as S&W paid royalties for the stolen design.You lost me on this one...... Admittedly, the .45 GAP is not as popular as the .357 SIG... but I think like the .357 SIG the following will grow!It's been out, what, four years now?(the GAP) Hm.. I still say a lot of this is Glock bashing, which I think is a bit funny when I at times see it coming from Sigma & M&P Smith shooters, who are basically shooting a S&W manufactured Glock!!!  S&W also makes a 1911... I guess... literally... S&W feels any idea worth having is worth stealing.

I really dont see how anyone has bashed on Glock....   I think pretty much everyone who has posted owns or respects Glock. Once again, The post was about the possible "D.O.A." of the GAP cartridge.

Not him, but a great number on this board show a great hatred of Glock.

The G21SF is a .45acp which is close to what the military wants in a .45acp.

Yes, there are 230 gr loads for the GAP.

What I lost you on is the actual market for the .45GAP.  A 9mm/.40S&W sized pistol that is .45 cal. and... to go with the top sentence... the S&W Sigma & M&Ps are great pistols... but Glocks explode!  More Glock hate on this board!

The same things were said about the .357 SIG.  Just a "vanity" named caliber that will fade and die due to lack of popularity.  Yet, the .45 GAP like the .357 SIG, it is growing in popularity with law enforcement agencies.

The "vanity" issue is a bit silly. What about "ACP", it means automatic COLT pistol?
Who cares what the name is? I have heard good things about the 45GAP.
I have no personal experience with the GAP.  

[To quote Mayor Nagin, it "keeps the brand out there."]

Yeah...sure...let's use quotes from Mr. Chocolate City.  That'll convince everybody!!!

Quoted: With NYSP and I think Georgie Highway Patrol adopting I don't think it's going to disappear. The same comments were made about 40s&W. The gap pistols have a regular grip size. the 21 sf is not that huge a difference from a 21, I don't foresee departments issuing 21sf to women or small stature men. I would get a Gap if I was willing to reload for it. It's the same as acp in a regular size glock.

I would love to know what Glock gave to NYSP and GHP to get them to go with the GAP.   I am thinking the pistols were bought cheep.  

Quoted: [To quote Mayor Nagin, it "keeps the brand out there."] Yeah...sure...let's use quotes from Mr. Chocolate City.  That'll convince everybody!!!

It was a joke man.

Quoted: I would love to know what Glock gave to NYSP and GHP to get them to go with the GAP.   I am thinking the pistols were bought cheep.

I agree. Probably not so much "gave" them anything, as got a reeeeaally good deal on them. Especially given the size of those respective departments.

I love Glocks. I think highly of the brand but the dam GAP makes no sense.  Before remaking the wheel why not do like SA did with the XD.  The grip size is the same on the .45ACP and the .45 GAP.  They both hold 13 rounds in the mag also.  If SA can do it with the XD with out making a new cartridge, so can Glock.

Quoted: Quoted: With NYSP and I think Georgie Highway Patrol adopting I don't think it's going to disappear. The same comments were made about 40s&W. The gap pistols have a regular grip size. the 21 sf is not that huge a difference from a 21, I don't foresee departments issuing 21sf to women or small stature men. I would get a Gap if I was willing to reload for it. It's the same as acp in a regular size glock. I would love to know what Glock gave to NYSP and GHP to get them to go with the GAP.   I am thinking the pistols were bought cheep.

Kinda like SIG has been doing for Texas DPS for 15 or more years...(although TXDPS has been retiring their Mini-14's for Bushy's and not the SIG 556)

Pennsylvania State Police are also going the the 45 GAP.  They were out at the range firing them a week or two ago.  The Commonwealth is giving the troopers first chance at buying their former sidearms. (Beretta 40's)

Instead of pissing away R&D funds on the .45 CRAP, they should have made a 19 sized .45 ACP. I don't care if it holds 10 rounds, just do it!

Quoted: Instead of pissing away R&D funds on the .45 CRAP, they should have made a 19 sized .45 ACP. I don't care if it holds 10 rounds, just do it!

Or a 5in single stack......


I truly believe that the .45 GAP will not attain much status, and only limitied purchases.

You know, now that I think of it, it's a damn shame that two almost 100 yr old designs, the Hi-power, and the 1911, still fit and fire the best for me, out of all the new-great technology we have........lol. And this coming from someone in his mid twenties.

But I'm sure I'll still keep a Glock or two around.

Quoted: Instead of pissing away R&D funds on the .45 CRAP, they should have made a 19 sized .45 ACP. I don't care if it holds 10 rounds, just do it!

A G19 sized pistol that uses .45ACP rounds would have held 7 or so rounds single stack, not 10.

Many people seem wedded to the idea of having more than 10 rounds on tap in a pistol.  Not that I am complaining about having enough rounds to do the job.

IMO, the CRAP is a better round than the Short and Weak, but there are many people who seem to love that round.

Again, FWIW, IMO if you are going for a full size Glock, buy the G20.

A 10+1 .45 GAP might not be my cup of tea, but it ain't THAT bad, even if it feeds Gaston's ego.

Read all the posts and here's my .02.

I carry a G37 professionally along with my brethren in the NYSP, Pennsylvania SP, Georgia State Patrol and South Carolina Highway Patrol. Also included are many local agencies to include the Denver PD. I fired the selected weapons in contention on the selection committee for my agency and was DEAD SET against the GAP. We sent out samples in 9mm ( already issued ) .40 and .45. The GAP was added and fired along with the rest. Not only was the GAP the most comfortable to shoot outside of the 9mm but it was by far the most accurate. That coupled with the availability of G38 and G39 back-up/ off-duty guns made it a tempting alternative. A full blown ballistics day spent with CCI folks and a large number of blocks of Ordinance Gelatin showed that the GAP gave up nothing in terminal ballistics, and outshone all but the +P's. Especially the 200 grn Gold Dot. As I write this there is a very fun to shoot/ accurate/ powerful G39 on my ankle in an Alessi ankle rig. My G37 is attached to my Level 4 vest with an M-3 affixed. I saw no purpose for it and now am issued one and own two others. The G38 is my hands down favorite. It's home protecting the family.  We have had two shooting incidents with the GAP and both were dramatic stops. This is a welcome factor to an agency that saw one of it's best get summarily executed after putting four rounds of ineffective 9mm into a bad guy. To sum it up, I am a believer. It's not re-inventing the wheel it's just making it out of modern materials instead if wooden spokes and an iron rim.

SCHP has adopted .45GAP. The guns are ordered and the transition is scheduled. Testing revealed increased scores among both experienced instructors, and basic recruits. Ballistic testing was promising with 200g ammo.

I consider the 357 sig a thinking mans cartridge, unless the D.O.D adopts the 45GAP then I see the death of it. Glock should have come up with a clever name like 357 sig.

I read somewhere that 45 GAP could be considered in the now canxed new pistol contract. Not very credible though.

Supposedly the USMC wanted to issue it as is but the DoD said no new calibers in the supply line.

Quoted: The same comments were made about 40s&W.

Except the .40 was eagarly awaited by both civilians and law enforcement alike when word of its development was announced.  It was a great seller once the guns and ammo hit the market.


None of that can be said for the .45GAP.

There are only a few agencies using the .45GAP.  I would put money on them going to something else once those guns wear out.

The GAP was still born.  It'll be history within the next 5-10 years.

Quoted: Quoted: The same comments were made about 40s&W. Except the .40 was eagarly awaited by both civilians and law enforcement alike when word of its development was announced.  It was a great seller once the guns and ammo hit the market. None of that can be said for the .45GAP. There are only a few agencies using the .45GAP.  I would put money on them going to something else once those guns wear out. The GAP was still born.  It'll be history within the next 5-10 years.

It's interesting then that most of the agencies switching are switching from .40 S&W.

.40 S&W is a mess of its own...

I never liked it.

Glocks official literature listed the difference between the 180grn Gold Dot in .40 and the 200grn Gold Dot in .45 GAP as being an astounding 20 fps/25 ftlbs fastter/better than the pretecessor. Losing 5 rounds, holsters and availible ammo is nuts for that type of increase. The reason that these agencies adopted the GAP is because Glock sold them for a song to give them legitimacy.

Nevertheless, I still kinda want a G37/G38...

Quoted: Glocks official literature listed the difference between the 180grn Gold Dot in .40 and the 200grn Gold Dot in .45 GAP as being an astounding 20 fps/25 ftlbs fastter/better than the pretecessor. Losing 5 rounds, holsters and availible ammo is nuts for that type of increase. The reason that these agencies adopted the GAP is because Glock sold them for a song to give them legitimacy. Nevertheless, I still kinda want a G37/G38...

Actually we went and it was the same price 40 vs 45, and we had to buy new holsters to boot.

Quoted: .40 S&W is a mess of its own... I never liked it.

I feel the same way.

The .45 GAP is just the wheel, re-invented.

Another "mess" in it's own right.

So it's got a slightly shorter case and overall length while maintaining .45 ACP performance.(bullet weight/velocity).

Looks like another solution in search of problem to me. (just like the .40 S&W)

TK

My agency just went to the Glock 37.  It's a nice pistol to shoot and overall seems to be an accurate gun / cartridge combo.  However, my overall reaction to it is "meh, it's ok".  

I will never understand the GAP and I will never understand, tho I own not one .40, why any PD would switch to a .45GAP from the .40, unless they have so muchg cash they just HAVE to buy some new toys.

Unless, maybe, just MAYBE, Glock wants those .40s back for liability reasons. Of course the GAP runs at a higher pressure then the .45ACP does which is part of the reason for it's long history so maybe history might begin to repeat itself KABOOM wise.

Some of the above COULD be sarcasm, or not.

Had a G38... Never shot it... traded it for a G19... Shot one a few weeks ago. Worst trade I've ever made. I love the 19 and will definately shoot it more but knowing what I do now would have kept it.  My main reason for trading was availability of ammo. After shooting the groups I did I would drive an hour for ammo.

And I am enjoying that G38 immensely Mr. Hillbilly. I thank you every day I put it on.

Quoted: Glocks official literature listed the difference between the 180grn Gold Dot in .40 and the 200grn Gold Dot in .45 GAP as being an astounding 20 fps/25 ftlbs fastter/better than the pretecessor. Losing 5 rounds, holsters and availible ammo is nuts for that type of increase. The reason that these agencies adopted the GAP is because Glock sold them for a song to give them legitimacy. Nevertheless, I still kinda want a G37/G38...

Then get one and shoot it and have fun. I would in all honesty get the 38. The 37 is a boat anchor, great for going through the door with but a bitch to carry comfortably. The 38 seems just right and is somewhat more comfortable to shoot also. I also have the 39 and enjoy it but I have a VERY high grip and it bites my thumb nuckle. It do ride in the Alessi well though.

Your welcome I'm hoping it is serving you well... I've been meaning to give you a call. I still have those boxes of ammo I need to get out to ya. I'm no way dogging the G19 I got but I'll be sure to try all my future deals I come across.

G39 owner here.

I won't try to defend the caliber.  It's kinda like riding motorcycles - some people just don't get it no matter how much you try to explain.

I will say that I am CONSTANTLY amazed at the accuracy of this little sub-compact.  It also rides very well in a Milt Sparks VMII holster.

I already reload for the .45 ACP.  Tooling doesn't change much to crank out a batch of .45 GAPs...

I overheard a guy at the gunshop telling a customer that Glock is no longer manufacturing pistols in GAP and that no other manufacturer makes a pistol chambered for the cartridge.  

Quoted: I will never understand the GAP and I will never understand, tho I own not one .40, why any PD would switch to a .45GAP from the .40, unless they have so muchg cash they just HAVE to buy some new toys.

Maybe, just maybe, it's because the .40 S&W is a (dangerous?) high pressure cartridge (45,000 psi) vs. the .45 GAP (25,000 psi).

Sure helps that the .45 GAP gives you the same grip size as the .40 S&W, but with a bigger, heavier, slug.

What's not to get?

Quoted: I overheard a guy at the gunshop telling a customer that Glock is no longer manufacturing pistols in GAP and that no other manufacturer makes a pistol chambered for the cartridge.

Never trust a gun shop for good gun info.

Quoted: Quoted: I will never understand the GAP and I will never understand, tho I own not one .40, why any PD would switch to a .45GAP from the .40, unless they have so muchg cash they just HAVE to buy some new toys. Maybe, just maybe, it's because the .40 S&W is a (dangerous?) high pressure cartridge (45,000 psi) vs. the .45 GAP (25,000 psi). Sure helps that the .45 GAP gives you the same grip size as the .40 S&W, but with a bigger, heavier, slug. What's not to get?

Because the .45acp is even lower, pressure wise then the GAP, does anything you can ask of the GAP and more, and has far more available loads on the market.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I will never understand the GAP and I will never understand, tho I own not one .40, why any PD would switch to a .45GAP from the .40, unless they have so muchg cash they just HAVE to buy some new toys. Maybe, just maybe, it's because the .40 S&W is a (dangerous?) high pressure cartridge (45,000 psi) vs. the .45 GAP (25,000 psi). Sure helps that the .45 GAP gives you the same grip size as the .40 S&W, but with a bigger, heavier, slug. What's not to get? Because the .45acp is even lower, pressure wise then the GAP, does anything you can ask of the GAP and more, and has far more available loads on the market.

Please factor in the .45 GAP load is loaded at the same pressures as the .45acp +P loads.  So, if one tends to load their .45acp with +P ammo to get the maximum performance, that is the level that the .45 GAP standard load performs.  So, technically you get slightly more into a smaller package.

What it comes down to... if you don't like it, don't use it, stick with the .45acp.  If you want .45acp performance in a package slightly bigger than a 9mm and get a 10 round capacity.  The .45 GAP fits that.  It appears that there is a bit of a trend to use that feature by a few Law Enforcement Agencies.  It was LE that began the growth of the .357 SIG, and the .45 GAP seems to be following that same path.  That may stimulate growth in popularity as time passes.  It will NEVER be as popular as .45acp, but it is growing roots in the LE market.

Not that it matters.  I switched from 9mm to .357SIG as my duty carry. ( Tried the .40 S&W for a bit in a SIG 229 since I bought a .40 S&W barrel when I bought that pistol in .357 SIG.  I later switched to a Glock in .357 SIG.)  I would have then stepped up to the .45 GAP for the size advantage. (.45acp performance in a 9mm/.40 size package.)  A 1911 was not an option and all the .45acp DS/SA autos where what I considered too big for daily concealed carry.  Though I owned a G21 in .45acp, I thought it too big so I never entertained that thought.  

However, before the .45 GAP landed we switched to the .40 S&W and from that point on we had to carry the government issued pistol as a primary carry.  That ended personally own handguns as a primary.  As a retirement gift to myself, I bought a .45 GAP mid-size Glock since I could carry whatever I wished after retirement.  They made me give back that G22 when I retired!!  How rude!!

imo, GAP will fade away-

and, i think that glock decided to go w/ the GAP 1st (vs simply reducing the size of the G21 frame) for a couple reasons:

-ammo development and name--if it clicked, it would catch on; if not, nothing really lost
-keep the same frames as the small bore glocks for production; basically, like "hardshell" mentioned, to keep "fitting double-stack .45ACP-level performance to smaller hands "

h/w, i think that glock engineer/designers screwed up right there; if there is already comparable, popular, and readily available/used compliments out there, like ammo caliber, you dont change the cartrige to fit the gun--you change the gun to fit the available cartrige
there simply is no real reason to; imo, glock simply wanted to gamble that the GAP would catch on

moreover, i think that glock again missed something w/ the GAP in a small frame: hi-capacity (again, another reason why they should have re-designed the frame/mag vs creating a new cartrige)--the GAP simply cant fit the same # of rnds in the other double stacked glocks for obvious reasons

h/w, glock releasing the GAP is not an all bad move though; with the smaller-framed double stacked .45acps already on the boards at the time by XD, FN, Taurus, etc, WHY not try to squeeze in a Glock created cartrige to try to bite the market?

while the G21SF is smaller, some still say its not enough; well, i cant disagree b/c while its an improvement over the huge grip of the G21, i still havent decided if glock halfa**ed the reduction design on the SF and coulnt have made it a little more improved...

the SF i'd guess is glocks' response of trying to play catch-up w/ the more popular, easier to fit frames (for most folks) double stacked .45acps while combining other more popular features (like ambi mag releases, full pic rails etc)

either way, there are still certain features on glocks that, imo, were good and some "improvements" that wernt as good; and in the end, glock decides what it wants to do (try to push something on the market that seems as a fix for something), instead of simply listening to the market and doing the trad. route--but i guess thats not always a bad thing

GAP doesnt fill anything outside the glock area (and i guess XD) b/c there are few HGs chambered in it, will never be as popular as .45acp, etc; the reason why the .40sw caught on is b/c there was a niche to fill at the time (something btw .45acp and euro 9mm)

just my .02