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Posted: 8/6/2005 2:36:56 PM EDT
[#1]
I haven't seen a huge variation in machining, but there probably will be some.
I do know that Arsenal is basically working everybody they have ragged trying to get AK's out to fill orders. |
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Posted: 8/6/2005 3:29:32 PM EDT
[#2]
That's one of the very reasons I'm hesitant about buying one of their rifles.
Some of them I've seen make me wonder what's hidden under the paint. I'm not a big fan of painted guns and would probably strip the paint and polish the receiver and barrel to even out any imperfections in the steel. Then it would get blasted with alum oxide and hot blued. I've polished a lot of guns, some of them in bad shape as far as rust pits and poor machining, and am well aware of what can and can't be polished out, and the thought of working on one of these guns make me a little leary. Has anyone ever stripped the paint off of an Arsenal milled rifle? What did the metal look like? |
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Posted: 8/6/2005 3:55:31 PM EDT
[#3]
I have heard horror stories from people who have decided they wanted a pretty blued finish on an AK. It seems that these guns are not all that well finished in teh best cases, and require lots of work to get a nice even blue on them.
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Posted: 8/6/2005 4:04:57 PM EDT
[#4]
I have no idea what is under the paint, but it whatever is used to paint the receivers is not very thick and I doubt it is hiding much. In fact if it were I woul not be able to see the wavy sanding marks on the Arsenal I mentioned.
I will take some pics later today and post them. |
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Posted: 8/6/2005 4:23:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Base finish on the M series should be a zinc phosphate.
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Posted: 8/6/2005 5:16:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Here is a pic of the wavy sanding marks on my Arsenal SA-M7SF. Like I said, not a big deal on a $400 AK, but kinda smarts on a $1300 gun... I would be curious to know if anyone else has noticed this on *any* milled Arsenal rifle:
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Posted: 8/6/2005 5:25:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Man, that sucks large. If that was my rifle it would be going on a road trip to Nevada.
No excuse for machining like that. Edited to add: That would not just "buff" out. 
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Posted: 8/6/2005 6:21:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Yeah I am thinking it would be a decent amount of work even for Arsenal to grind that down and refinish it. My SA-M7S is flawless... I may have to give them a call, but in the past I was given the "They are all made by hand and have variations" line. Which is why I started this thread to find out. |
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Posted: 8/6/2005 6:31:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Uber, I sent you an IM, but if it were me, I'd call John at Arsenal and send them the picture via Email so that he could see what you were talking about.
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Posted: 8/6/2005 6:37:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Thanks Templar, I pinged you in email.
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Posted: 8/7/2005 12:26:30 AM EDT
[#11]
I talked to a smith who told me he received 8 SLR-105's from Arsenal and 4 of them arrived in very poor condition (i.e. paint missing, scratches etc.), when he called he was informed that they were "utility guns". WTF does that mean, that they can be scratched to hell? I believe he sent them back though.
I do like mine though and I have no complaints about it. |
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Posted: 8/7/2005 7:15:24 AM EDT
[#12]
I will be sending it back to them regardless. Arsenal cannot charge over a grand for an AK and then get away with calling it a "Utility Gun". It is a bit of a kick in the ass IMHO. I will keep a report going here about how they handle it and the outcome. |
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Posted: 8/7/2005 7:26:14 AM EDT
[#13]
Its kinda like a double-stamped penny...
in 30 years that AK will be worth BIG money. I believe it is this mentality in the US that caused the Polytech line of rifles to spring off of Norinco. I was told that Polytech parts come from the same factories that Norinco came from but all the parts were selected to be the best of the best and then assembled into complete rifles. Norincos were not bad rifles, it was just that stuff like machining marks varied from rifle to rifle. When you bought a Polytech you were getting the best "looking" parts. Personally, I like it when my firearms are "unique" as long as the function properly. LB |
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Posted: 8/13/2005 2:19:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Well the rifle is on a plane to Las Vegas right now. I asked that the receiver be replaced with a new sample rather than re-grind the current one. The entire rifle will need to be torn down and rebuilt either way, I assume. We'll see what they decide to do.
Hopefully I will not have to wait the 6 or more weeks that I have heard others folks are enduring just to hear back about the warranty work. Argh. 
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Posted: 8/13/2005 3:41:17 PM EDT
[#15]
I guess I got lucky the SA M7 carbine I picked up today has no bad machine marks on it what so ever.
Like templar said I'm sure they are rushing to get orders filled, but is still no excuse for a customers rifle. |
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Posted: 8/13/2005 4:02:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Mine looked like that too.
The stock is held in with some pins that I think were welded in, then they tried grinding it down to make it even. On mine you could still see about 1/2 the circumference of the pins. BTW, I think this problem is exclusive to the M7-SF rifles. Since there is no grinding involved on the regular receivers, it's not an issue. Both the SA M-7S and SA M-7 Classic that I owned were flawless. |
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Posted: 8/13/2005 4:21:52 PM EDT
[#17]
My SA-M5 doesn't have any bad grinds. Arsenal should just send you a whole new rifle ...
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Posted: 8/13/2005 4:43:20 PM EDT
[#18]
That's it, I'm not buying anymore Arsenal rifles sight unseen unless Templer personally inspects them for me first.  Last one was lovely on the outside. It was the inside that was F@#%&~ 
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Posted: 8/13/2005 10:24:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Sigurd: Do you still have your SA-M7SF? If so can you take some pics and post them? I would be curious to see what it looks like compared to my rifle. My SA-M7S is perfect in build, but has a few spotty areas of paint. Certainly the receiver looks beautiful on that rifle which is why the 7SF's seemed so sloppy. Sounds like the Arsenal products are getting spotty. |
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Posted: 8/13/2005 10:50:34 PM EDT
[#20]
No, I don't have it any more.
I couldn't get used to the backwards, unnatural left side safety that operates in the opposite direction from all of my other firearms, including my KTR-03V, which has the lever in the same place, but works correctly. So I sold it  I have a couple pics but nothing that shows the grinding on the receiver in any meaningful way. |
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Posted: 9/2/2005 2:24:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Follow Up:
I spoke with the folks at Arsenal today and was told that the rifle was disassembled and the receiver stripped and re-machined. Once it is re-built and re-finished it should be on the way back in another week. It seems that the sidefolders were sanded by hand rather than machined on the right rear of the receiver. This would explain why others were also seeing the same issue on SF rifles from the same run. Dunno.  I will take pictures and post them to show the work and quality of the fix. Hopefully it will come back looking & functioning 100%. UD |
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Posted: 9/3/2005 3:11:25 AM EDT
[#22]
dayum!!! I would be soooooooooo pissed!!! looks like an ocean there. good thing i stick with good 'o stamped chinese guns. hmm the receiver stripped and re-machined??? I'd be worried, there's only so much material to take away from.
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Posted: 9/3/2005 7:32:03 AM EDT
[#23]
I took a look at mine yesterday, and there is some "waviness" in that area. It is less than your example, and doesn't bother me (everybody's mileage varies, of course), but it is another one that seems to have been hand finished in that area for some reason.
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Posted: 9/3/2005 9:12:39 AM EDT
[#24]
I asked this question and was told that they measured the receiver and there was enough room to machine off a bit and still be within tolerance. I was told that if there had not been enough room to shave off a bit and still be within spec that they would destroy that rifle and offer me a new one. Hopefully they do not need to take to much off, but I am not too worried about it. I trust Arsenal knows how to deal with their milled recievers and build the gun back up. Once it is refinished it should not be detectable that the gun was ever worked on. We'll see. I am assuming Arsenal will do the right thing.
It seems that all the side folders were hand finished this way. If I had known this I may not have sent it back in. At the time I thought my rifle was unusual. The reality is that mine may have been one of the rougher examples and more obvious. Arsenal told me that my SF will now be the only one of the entire run that will have a machined receiver in that area, since all others were done on a grinder. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:55:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Update:
The sidefolder came back to me from Arsenal last week and I wanted to report on the experience with their customer service: Everyone I spoke with on the phone at Arsenal was extremely courteous and helpful. When I spoke with John originally about the issue of machine marks he immediately said "Send it in and we'll make it right". When I called for updates on progress I was given accurate estimates of time and what was being done to the gun. Shipping estimate was by off by 2 days, meaning the rifle arrived 2 days earlier than expected. They had the gun about 4 weeks total and the results were excellent. The picture below is a bit dark, but what you are seeing is clean and smooth. Perfect paint, etc. All and all I am very pleased and will not hesitate to buy more rifles from this company in the future. 
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:55:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Much improved.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:16:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Very cool Uberdog! I'm glad they were able to take care of you. I knew they would.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:36:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Even the best of companies can have stuff slip by them. It's all in how they handle it that decides how good they really are ...
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:34:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Glad they took care of you.
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Posted: 10/4/2005 3:01:59 AM EDT
[#30]
Good to know and glad your experience worked out. That is a pricey AK
ARSENAL is one of the more 'under the radar' gun makers I know of. I cannot recall seeing any parts/services (customer or product) options listed anywhere. I only recently learned of the K-Var/ARSENAL affiliation and perhaps thats the way they do things ARSENAL builds them and K-Var side of the house sells parts and service. Either way, I really like the product- I am on my 3rd. |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 12:35:05 PM EDT
[#31]
I forgot to mention that Arsenal included a new flash hider in the box with the rifle. I had taken the original one off before sending the gun back and they either thought I needed a new one or gave me an extra for my trouble.
Either way that is a classy move.
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