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Posted: 4/19/2007 3:30:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Safe queen for people with more money than brains? The only Wilson combat rifle I ever saw broke during the shoot in question - it was brand new. The fit and finish was beautiful, though. I wouldn't call LMT "top tier" FWIW. |
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Posted: 4/19/2007 3:35:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Amen brother!! LMT sucks IMO.
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Posted: 4/20/2007 10:11:44 PM EDT
[#3]
I own 1 wilson combat tactical custom (which I customized myself of course) and I love it. The action is the smoothest I have ever felt and its dead nuts accurate. They may be exspensive but you get what you pay for period. And a lifetime warraty to boot! If ANYTHING goes wrong with it wilson will fix it no questions asked. I have had mine for five years and not one failure. And shes no safe queen trust me. I have put her thru hell and she keeps on tickin. The armor tuff finish is quite durable too.
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Posted: 4/20/2007 10:28:52 PM EDT
[#4]
LMFAO @that 1 
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Posted: 4/20/2007 10:51:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Wilson Combat is a great product...with great customer service to back it. I don't care what anyone says.
-MEI |
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Posted: 4/20/2007 11:13:14 PM EDT
[#6]
I wanted a Wilson 1911 once, but for the price I think I would get a Barrett, lol , Nothing against Wilson or anyone who own's them but damn they cost a pretty penny. To be fare I was looking at stripped Wilson parts (AR lowers/ uppers) and they not to bad in price.
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Posted: 4/20/2007 11:41:38 PM EDT
[#7]
The only Wilson I have ever seen in action did not work and was replaced with a rental on TD1.
They are nothing special. |
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Posted: 4/20/2007 11:45:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Uh, if you consider Colt "top tier." It actually is FWIW.  As far as the Wilson Combat, I don't have much experience but from what I saw it was comparable to a CMMG/Sabre. |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 11:47:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Wilson Combat AR's = Tier 3 AR at more than tier 1 prices.
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Posted: 4/21/2007 11:49:57 AM EDT
[#10]
I honestly have no idea what you just said in that sentence. Are you saying that LMT is on par with Colt - or are you arguing that Colt is top tier, as if I said something to the contrary? |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 12:20:28 PM EDT
[#11]
No, what I said is if you consider Colt top tier, then LMT is top tier as well and this has been proven time and time again in the technical discussions. |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 12:22:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Proven in the internet? Nice. When LMT goes through military trials to get fielded widespread - they might be able to back that up. Until then, they are just another relatively untested company who uses small unit purchases as marketing gimmicks. |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 12:28:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Here we go again.  Would you stop it already with the 'Colt sux' theme? There are plenty of positive things to say about LMT without a Colt reference. |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 12:34:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Such a God damn ridiculous statement. As if we're comparing two different weapons systems. They're both the same weapon, doofy.  Small marketing gimmicks? You mean like the 10.5 uppers they've been selling to Spec-Ops, in which returned extremely high praise? After all, if you want to make jokes about LMT, how about all the FNs taking Colt out of business?  The bottom line is, next time you hijack a thread, state facts not your bias. Colt: MPI'd, Shot-Peened, Non Mil-Spec fire control group pins. LMT: MPI'd, Shot-Peened, Mil-Spec. No parkerization under the front sight. Now please research before you hijack threads and post BS. |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 12:36:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Not trying to start one of those discussions at all, in fact I'm doing my best to state that they are both of superior quality. All I'm saying is they are both Tier 1 and minor details in both keep them from being absolutely clones of the military weapon. |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 12:42:23 PM EDT
[#16]
with respect to Wilson Combat ARs
I believe Wilson markets their AR15 line to their hard-core 1911 owners who have shown to be fiercely loyal to the WC label. They do offer a duarble finish on the rifles, but I think they charge extra for it. Most if not all WC rifles offer a JP trigger upgrade, a match grade barrel, and an accuracy guarantee. Otherwise, the rifle is pretty much like most other maker's. I think they start at around $1,500 |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 12:45:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Do they even manufacture their components?
If not, you could probably build a better gun for the same money. |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 12:46:20 PM EDT
[#18]
So, are we limiting this to civilian rifles now? I'd hate the think the M4's I've shot had non-milspec parts. Also, Just who is "spec-ops?" Care to be more specific - since you are insisting on specifics? Bottom line now: COLT - military contract, proven company. LMT - not so. Finally, my post was about my experience with a Wilson Combat rifle - you are the one who has hijacked this thread. |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 12:58:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Uh, do you not notice your little shit eating comment after your response? I'm just as guilty as you are for going on, but I'd rather call you out on your BS. LMT Contracts 2006 LMT Contracts 2005 Colt Contracts 2006 Colt Contracts 2005 Would you look at that, LMT has more contracts than Colt in the last few years.  Congrats, you were just called out on your bullshit. Want me to continue hammering you? Hit me on Private Message, and leave the BS out of this thread. |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 1:10:31 PM EDT
[#20]
You are "hammering me?" I am just going to asume you are ignorant of how that stuff works, and are not a military guy. Thus, I will point out the stuff on the left about "full and open competition" - there has not been one in all the years you posted. The info in those links says nothing except what small unit purchases were made. Those are made for any number of reasons, but have nothing to do with what "tier" something is. Every M4A1 I have seen has been a Colt. If you have info to the contrary, post it and quit acting like a little child. What's next a "pwn3d" post? As for Wilson (as I try to keep this on topic) the rifle in question - that I saw - had something cracked in the fire control group (I forget what, I just remember I didn't have a spare) - it gave me the impression that the metallurgy of their parts was sub standard or that at least their QC was. |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 1:30:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Can't you guys edit these quotes to a reasonable size? |
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Posted: 4/21/2007 4:24:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Jesus Christ. Bunch of Kool-Aid drinkers around here.
-MEI |
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Posted: 4/22/2007 3:31:48 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 4/22/2007 3:42:26 PM EDT
[#24]
In all fairness - just because a company does not get the contract for the military does not mean they suck. Look at the history of the Jeep in Military service - as you guys probably know - the inventor did not even get to build them...
General statement. |
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Posted: 4/22/2007 3:57:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Well, if you consider the entire surface Navy "small unit".... |
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Posted: 4/22/2007 4:04:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Who said anything about sucking? Heck, I think the linked thread above about the discoloration is sad - it epitomizes every bad thing and negative stereotype about arfcommers. Color does not equal performance. It might be an indicator of looser QC somewhere - but the color alone is laughable. My point regarding LMT is it was it was unproven and untested - and nobody has been able to show otherwise. FN and Colt are the only two companies who I would call "'Top tier." The first person to show a dang thing maybe to the contrary has been Navy man just above. |
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Posted: 4/22/2007 4:27:42 PM EDT
[#27]
You might note that no one was quoted in my post and I did add "general statement"...
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Posted: 4/22/2007 4:51:45 PM EDT
[#28]
wilson adverties 2MOA with the rifle and carbines the build, which are expensive. RRA who use wilson barrels advertises 1MOA, my entry tactical will shoot 3/4MOA and RRA is,nt nearly as expensive as wilson, whats wrong with this picture?
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Posted: 4/22/2007 5:04:59 PM EDT
[#29]
The first Wilson Combat rifle I had seen was a carbine version. It had a Rock River Arms 6-position stock. It even had the RRA logo on the stock!!
Wilson Combat is just like every other manufacturer out there, they assemble rifles form someone else's parts!! I am sure they are just as nice as anyone else's guns, just way more pricey. For the money I build my own, have never had any problems, and get exactly what I want with every part assembled by me! 
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Posted: 4/22/2007 6:32:05 PM EDT
[#30]
While I have some issues with LMT, I wouldn't say that they "suck". However, there are certain proucts that I won't buy from LMT (BCG's and barrels)
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Posted: 4/22/2007 6:59:09 PM EDT
[#31]
They use the same subs barrels. |
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Posted: 4/22/2007 8:31:50 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 4/22/2007 10:43:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Who the fuck came up with "tiers?" Must have been an armchair commando. Tiers are made up levels of imagination. Just shoot your damn guns.
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Posted: 4/22/2007 10:45:47 PM EDT
[#34]
The best known proponent of grading guns by tiers is Patrick Rogers, CWO3, USMC (Ret.). Definitely not an armchair commando. |
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Posted: 4/22/2007 10:54:31 PM EDT
[#35]
I know who Pat Rogers is, you tier queer Did he invent this nonsense? I know a Colt and an Oly aren't on quite the same level, but who goes around saying ,"I have a tier 1 AR?" Who needs Pat Rogers or anyone else to grade their firearms?
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Posted: 4/22/2007 11:20:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Uh maybe because Pat Rogers sees more AR's in a year than you or I will in our lifetime? And he sees what runs and what doesn't? I think Pat *might* know a little something 'er other... |
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Posted: 4/22/2007 11:53:19 PM EDT
[#37]
I know he knows about guns, tactics, etc. I never doubted the man's knowledge. I don't pretend to know what he knows about AR's. However, just because he knows a hell of a lot about shooting and guns, doesn't mean EVERYTHING he says or believes on the subject is gospel. Being a proponent of the "tier system" doesn't mean he came up with it. Who came up with it? What are the criteria? What is the standard by which all AR's are judged? Colt? FN? Who wrote the book on this shit? I may even agree with it, but I've never seen any documentation of it anywhere, only heard about it on the internets. |
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Posted: 4/22/2007 11:57:02 PM EDT
[#38]
You worry too much.
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Posted: 4/23/2007 12:45:41 AM EDT
[#39]
I won't pitch in on the semantics debate. I will say that the Wilson Combat stripped lower I helped a friend pick out at a funshow and built for him is the single best finished lower I have ever seen. There wasn't a single visible machining mark on it, and the forging seam was perfectly smoothed over, and invisible. I wouldn't buy one of their complete rifles but if I wanted the highest quality finish on an AR build I would start with their lower and upper. I have used a couple of Lauer Custom lowers on my builds and they are very nice as well, but not as nice as the WC ones.
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Posted: 4/23/2007 12:51:14 AM EDT
[#40]
I've seen WC lowers marked PWA. Those lowers are made by LMT, IIRC. As were Lauer lowers, until they switched. I've heard the non-LMT LCW lowers are disgustingly aweful.
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Posted: 4/23/2007 12:57:44 AM EDT
[#41]
The LCW lowers I have seen were probably at least a year old, and very nice. I assume then they were LMTs? Didn't know who actually made the WC lowers, but the example I saw was unreal. I haven't seen any LMT branded lowers to compare, they don't seem to make their way up to WA state much. We of course have Mega, Oly, etc there making lowers too. |
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Posted: 4/23/2007 1:04:36 AM EDT
[#42]
You out of Lewis? I'm from Thurston county but I'm over on the east side now. Stickman works at an LMT dealership, IIRC, so there is a place to fingerfuck LMT lowers on the west side, finally. I myself have only seen two in person, and they were very nice. I've been very happy with my LMT stuff.
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Posted: 4/23/2007 1:07:39 AM EDT
[#43]
I actually bought my LCW lowers from John @ Rainer Arms. He never had any LMTs in stock when I was there. I have to pick up a couple lowers when I get back so I will check with him to see what he has in stock then. I'm actually out of McChord, pretty much the same thing though. I have two bushy uppers from the tax time sale that need lowers. 
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Posted: 4/23/2007 1:14:46 AM EDT
[#44]
Haha, I've never actually been to Rainier Arms place, hopefully when I am back in town this summer...
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Posted: 4/23/2007 1:19:29 AM EDT
[#45]
Neither have I, had to pick them up at John's other business. Does he actually have a storefront now? |
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Posted: 4/23/2007 12:27:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Psssst. You might want to search under "Colt Defense" and not "Colt Manufacturing". Colt Defense Contracts Don't get me wrong, I love LMT. |
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Posted: 4/23/2007 1:35:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Im pretty sure Wilson Combat Barrels are NOT the same barrels used on RRA. RRA uses Wilson barrels. Different barrel company.
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Posted: 4/23/2007 2:25:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Wilson Combat used to use Wilson Arms barrels, the same ones Rock River uses. They then started making their own barrels, but it is my understanding that they were going to go back to the WA barrels.
I have had Colt MT, Bushmaster, and played with a buddies Rock River. Right now the only AR I have is a Wilson Combat UT-15 in a fairly plain jane configuration. I will not get rid of it, I love it. It is very accurate, buttery smooth, ultra reliable, has the best trigger I ever felt on an AR, and it is green to match my CQB. I also like the fluted 16 inch barrel.I used to be a Wilson Combat master dealer so I got mine wholesale. They are pricey but if you can afford one, you won't be disappointed. If you like to build and can do a decent trigger job, you can probably build one just as nice for a bit less but without the Armor Tuff finish. All that being said... my next two ARs will be Rock River and CMMG. I didn't get to oogle my buddy's Rock River as much as I would have liked, but at a glance the fit and finish was pretty good and the two stage trigger was pretty nice too. I'm thinking a RR in a varmint configuration and a CMMG in a mid length. BTW. Wilson Combats Super Sniper is basically a RR varmint upper only using Wilson's upper rec. Same Wilson Arms barrel. I always wanted one, but could never bring myself to pay extra for the Wilson over the RR. I figured I would get the RR upper and send it to Wilson for a spray paint job...or not. Just my .02. Trying to be objective. Mike |
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