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Posted: 7/6/2005 6:20:13 PM EDT
I am looking at purchasing an acog, and want to know which mount would be better for it.
The dual throw lever Arms Acog mount, or the LaRue equivilant. Opinions please. A.R.M.S.® #19acog Throw Lever Mount (from ARMS site) The A.R.M.S.® #19acog Throw Lever Mount for ACOG® scopes features most of the design of the #19A, with the addition of the ACOG® channel. This mount provides the ACOG® scope three positions of added relief to select from. The aluminum base is secured by A.R.M.S.® steel locking feet and levers and the no-mar patented buffer pads. Fits all Mil-Std Dovetail A.R.M.S.® Rails. Item: 19ACOG $150.00 ACOG Mount (from G&R Tactical's site)   Quick detach scope mount for the popular ACOG sight. This mount is the EXACT same length as the ARMS 19S, but gives you TWO throw levers instead of one! This provides a much more robust mounting platform. The mount also comes with TWO mounting screws. $125.00 |
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Posted: 7/6/2005 1:49:19 AM EDT
[#1]
This will be messy.
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Posted: 7/6/2005 5:58:04 PM EDT
[#2]
bump
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Posted: 7/6/2005 6:04:00 PM EDT
[#3]
I have the ARMS, it's nice, but certainly does not hold zero for me. I don't know if the LaRue would do any better, but I'm tempted to try it.
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Posted: 7/6/2005 6:14:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Anyone know if the LaRue has similar problems?
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Posted: 7/6/2005 6:20:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Moved to the correct forum.
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Posted: 7/6/2005 6:26:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Often ARMS is too light on the lever or too stiff. The regular 19 is too long and too heavy. Larue sits at a better height, has adjustable levers, is easier to install (no tabs) and is more compact and light weight if you get the regualr version. The 19S allows you to mount the ACOG a notch futher to the rear than a Larue if you use an ARMS 40 variant. You only need the single throw lever. What made you think you needed throw levers all over your mount? Larue is coming out with a locking lever if the current levers that never ever fail happen to fail too often for you.
PS Never had a problem holding zero with the ARMS mount. |
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Posted: 7/6/2005 9:56:39 PM EDT
[#7]
I had the Arms 19S and it didnt hold zero, I sold it and got the Larue and it hasnt missed a beat, it all comes down to you own prefrence.
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Posted: 7/7/2005 4:49:16 AM EDT
[#8]
LaRue is a better choice.It's adjustable for tension.
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Posted: 7/7/2005 4:52:23 AM EDT
[#9]
the dual throw lever arms mount is really long! longer than needed.
that being said the larue dual throw lever mount is the same lenght as the single throw lever arms mount. i like the larue better only because of this, i have never had any problems with my 19s though
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Posted: 7/7/2005 5:31:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Arms makes very high quality gear. Where the klinker comes in is that there are a lot of out-of-spec upper receiver rails out there; more out than in, I suspect. The Arms unit has no way to correct around this deficiency which is not of their making.
The LaRue, on the other hand, has locking levers which can be adjusted to compensate for a fair degree of error in the manufacture of the rail; not every possible screw up by the manufacturer of the upper mind you, but certainly most. Now, if you know for a fact that your upper receiver rail is perfectly in spec, the Arms will serve you well. Do you know this for a fact? My own experience involves my first ACOG* (TA-11). My particular unit came complete with an Arms #19. The setup just would not hold zero. I swapped for a LaRue and presto! Problem solved. There was nothing wrong with the Arms mount. The problem was with my receiver rail; a problem the LaRue has the capability to compensate for and which the Arms does not. There are limits to the adjustability of the LaRue locking clamps. I have another rifle, the rail of which is so hopelessly out of spec that the standard clamp of the LaRue Aimpoint mount is inadequate to hold zero. (I must have been a real asshole in my prior life; a child molester, drug-dealer, Democrat, something….) Luckily for me, Mark LaRue took this situation personally and built me a one-off “big ol bastard” clamp for the mount. It looks a little awkward; kind of like it should say JOHN DEERE on the side rather than LARUE TACTICAL. But that Aimpoint ain’t going nowhere. Good luck. Good shooting. SD ** I can still remember the olden days when my nomenclature was “my ACOG” rather than “my first ACOG”. I hate this fucking board. My broker hates this fucking board. My family and heirs really, truly, deeply hate this fucking board. I’m starting to suspect that my dogs, who would certainly prefer to have canned dog food, are harboring a smoldering resentment against this fucking board. |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 7:09:30 AM EDT
[#11]
ARMS levers are all over the place. Its not always the recievers out of spec like ARMS will try to lie and tell you. Loose ones are loose on KAC and DD rails and Bushmaster, LMT and Colt uppers. Tight ones are tight on all those. Its totaly a crap shoot with ARMS.
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Posted: 7/7/2005 7:29:58 AM EDT
[#12]
NO. Buy the LaRue you won't be disappointed. |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 9:22:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Actually, your heirs will be greatful that you left them with such fine gear. As for your broker, your ACOG will probably hold value better than most of the stocks he pushes. I swap between a TA31F on a LaRue mount and and Aimpoint M2 on a LaRue mount on a Colt rail with no loss of zero. |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 9:31:04 AM EDT
[#14]
No MIM parts ...
The Michaelangelo of forged aluminum...the maestro of milling & machining... LaRue Tactical...hands down
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Posted: 7/7/2005 9:38:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Well that's a fucking shame.  ETA: IMO, the LaRue is your best bet! |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 1:36:48 PM EDT
[#16]
I think that if anyone wants to know the real facts, they can always call the optic/laser makers and see what they prefer and only recomend for reliable performance. Aimpoint, Trijicon, Leuphold, Eotech, Elcan, Surefire, laser devices, and many others only seem to want the ARMS lever system that is also on many US and overseas weapon systems, new and old. Many weapons companies I see also choose the ARMS levers to such as Bushmaster, Colt , Armalight, Remington, FN and thier new M4 replacment weapon, etc. and others, not to mention the USMC, and Cranes SPR sniper rifles, plus the IDF, and many other countries we all see. The spring loaded tention of the set ARMS levers is what make them repeat tention on and off, loosening and re-tightening an adjustment each time does not lend itself to repeat tention, as it will vary each time an adjustment is moved. Over tightening is not something that is possible with an ARMS lever, plus no tool is required to lose or Those companies and military customers put any product thru all kinds of professional toture tests to assure reliable results in the field. I will take thier lead any day.
Jack |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 2:33:01 PM EDT
[#17]
LOL, Dick you just couldn't take it any more. All the above posters are liars huh!  The fact that companies choose your levers is really old news. When these companies wanted a throw lever mount you were the only game in town (they had no choice). They now have a choice and ARE having LT make mounts for them (new news). The Military is buying more and more of their products and LT is becoming known in the Spec-Ops community as the go to company for skunk works.I know I have covered this before, but you are to ignorant to understand what I am saying so I will tell you again. No "tool" is needed to open or close a LT lever. You set the desired tension (a one time thing) and you are done. Now if you want to talk about carrying a tool around to open a lever well then you had better look at your own levers. I personally had to use a tool evertime I wanted to open the lever on my OTAL.  I am also hearing from some folks that your MIM levers are snapping (hope to have some pics up of them in the near future). So instead to TRYING to bad mouth LT why don't you spend your time in a more constructive manner and improve the strength of your levers!  As always GOOD SHOOTIN, C4 |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 2:44:47 PM EDT
[#18]
How did i know Grant would be the very next person to post when I saw 3rdtk back for the first time in montshs....
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Posted: 7/7/2005 2:54:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Your a smart guy! Its really quite simple, when I see lies being posted I correct them. If Dick doesn't want to see me correct him then he needs to stop with the BS. No poster in this thread was tearing into ARMS. They were simply stating their opinion of ARMS products based on their experience. There was ZERO need for Dick to make the comments he did. C4 |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 3:11:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Hmm, First of all the name isn't Dick, but suit your (fantasy), you always do. I see the misinformation from certain folk hasn't stopped as it makes money for them/some, regardless of the facts I just posted about all the real end users and manyufacturers that disagree with cliche constant bad mouth nonsense. I called no one a liar, misinformed about facts maybe? No doubt do to your wise guy ignorant BS in the quest for money. I instead pointed out who in the actual industry and militaries disagree with the nonsense some foster on others, because thgey know better. I suggested that anyone can check out bs by calling the various makers and or military end users like I suggested. Guess that is something some wouldn't want them to do HUH?
I havn't been around for several months like many others I see are also gone. Therfore, because of this certain group and groupies of salesmen who don't want facts known, and who use this web as a forum to misinform as it suits them, those who do like facts go to help with engineering facts and sources elswhere. Thanks for the IM's welcoming 3rdtk info being back, but sorry to say, as long as the moderators allow BS promotions over fact, history, engineering know how, and personal attacks to continue, your stuck with a limited knowledge of actual real info. See Ya! |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 3:20:17 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 7/7/2005 3:30:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Hmm, First of all the name isn't Dick, but suit your (fantasy), you always do. Been down this road before so save your lies for someone that believes them. I see the misinformation from certain folk hasn't stopped as it makes money for them/some, regardless of the facts I just posted about all the real end users and manyufacturers that disagree with cliche constant bad mouth nonsense. Interesting. So the above ARFCOM members that said they had issues with your levers are not "REAL" end users?? I think that speaks volumes on what you think of the Civy market. I called no one a liar, misinformed about facts maybe? No doubt do to your wise guy ignorant BS in the quest for money. I make money off the sales of ARMS products as well. I simply recommend the better product. I am a dealer and am SUPPOSED to make money. I instead pointed out who in the actual industry and militaries disagree with the nonsense some foster on others, because thgey know better. I suggested that anyone can check out bs by calling the various makers and or military end users like I suggested. Guess that is something some wouldn't want them to do HUH? That is a good idea. Call up the USA, USMC, USN and USAF and check what their SF guys are running. I havn't been around for several months like many others I see are also gone. Therfore, because of this certain group and groupies of salesmen who don't want facts known, and who use this web as a forum to misinform as it suits them, those who do like facts go to help with engineering facts and sources elswhere. No groupies in this thread. Just members that have issues with their ARMS mounts. Maybe that should tell you need to do some work on your mounts and levers. Thanks for the IM's welcoming 3rdtk info being back, but sorry to say, as long as the moderators allow BS promotions over fact, history, engineering know how, and personal attacks to continue, your stuck with a limited knowledge of actual real info. See Ya! The BS sits right square in your corner my friend. No need to point the finger at anyone else. Good Shootin Dick, C4 |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 3:41:45 PM EDT
[#23]
I didn't know he was guessing at a name. I saw it more as a descriptor. ETA: FYI I bought my ARMS mount from Grant. I'm sure that will totally blow your mind. I have done nothing more than take the mount off and put it back on and it did not hold zero. I can only guess what would happen if it would have been beaten around in the mean time. |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 3:50:06 PM EDT
[#24]
The name "Dick" is very fitting for sure. C4 |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 3:51:57 PM EDT
[#25]
I have to call BS on your that the people "in the know" only use ARMS. Here are two quotes from Pat Rogers from another forum:
"You won't go wrong with the larue Mount. We have been using them for over 2 years now, and they are the only ones that i would consider." "Also, if your requirements are to regularly change optics, the larue Mount is the only one that will abolutely return to zero." I can supply more quotes from other people "in the know" if you like. There’s nothing wrong with promoting your product, but don’t BS people either. ETA: I have no interests with ARMS or LaRue... IMHO, some ARMs products are BETTER than LaRues - bipod mount for example. But then again, IMHO, some LaRue products are BETTER than ARMS - optical mounts for example. And for the sake of argument, IMHO, KAC makes better rails than both! |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 3:57:28 PM EDT
[#26]
The above quotes from Pat Rogers means nothing to Dick. He views Pat as just some "gun writer" and nothing more. What's really funny is that the rest of the free world views Pat as "Yoda with a Carbine."C4 |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 3:57:47 PM EDT
[#27]
I have no problems with any of my Arms stuff coming lose or POI change. I take my scopes off everytime I travel with my weapons. Now for guys in the Sand box that might be a different story, I use my weapons alot and my Arms mounts. I have 5 different manufactures of guns with all of them have something made by Arms on them , But maybe I am the lucky one with good shit. I have no Larue stuff (yet), so I can not comment on there stuff. Lets stop all this BS about these companies. If you go with the Arms get the 19S. Good luck and dont mind all the bitchininhere.
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Posted: 7/7/2005 4:10:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Great! Glad to hear you don't have any problems. Some on this forum may think that I enjoy seeing folks suffer with their ARMS mounts, but that just isn't the case. I know what a PITA it is to take a mount apart and send it back to the company for a replacement and then get the new one and have to re-zero their optict. I wouldn't wish that misfortune on anyone. C4 |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 7:34:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Equivilant isn't the correct term for your comparison; They're definitely not equal. I used to laugh when the LaRue mounts were first posted here. I called them an ARMS Copy . Now I know better, when a 19S and a 22M68 both lost zero and loosed up at an AR15.com shoot right before my eyes. After trying LaRue products myself, I easily saw the difference and it has caused me to swap out every one of my existing ARMS optics mounts, as well as for my coworkers who carry an AR15 daily. The only ARMS throwlevers I still have are the ones on my SureFires, since a little point of shift on a beam of light isn't critical. |
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Posted: 7/7/2005 7:40:30 PM EDT
[#30]
 Same here.
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Posted: 7/8/2005 3:26:28 AM EDT
[#31]
Your such a "groupie" Lumpy. C4 |
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Posted: 7/8/2005 4:59:08 AM EDT
[#32]
Those were also the times when just about every rifle pictured here also had a SIR mounted on it! Change (progress) is GOOD.
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Posted: 7/8/2005 7:16:04 AM EDT
[#33]
How prophetic was that? And another possibly informative thread, that started out as an honest question, slides into the wide gaping mouth of yet another flame war. |
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Posted: 7/8/2005 7:49:21 AM EDT
[#34]
And I gave an honest answer, based on my experience with both brands of products. "Larue is cool" threads are uninformative and a waste of time. Posters (posers?) should share their input based on experience and not hearsay from others on the internet. If you haven't extensively used the products asked about in a topic, then you shouldn't contribute to the discussion. (Lancelot, this isn't a dig on you, just the others who seem to add BS to these types of thread questions) |
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Posted: 7/8/2005 8:34:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Agree. I have used and sold just about every ARMS product made. I also currently own/use and sell just about every LT product made. My comments are based upon the fact that I use both. I wonder if 3rdtk (Dick) has used any LT products?? C4 |
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Posted: 7/8/2005 4:53:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Holy shit I agree with Grant!
 I am also guilty of sticking my nose in the air at LaRue mounts at first introduction. I have since rectified that mistake. |
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Posted: 7/8/2005 5:00:44 PM EDT
[#37]
Becareful! You have agreed with me (publicly) on a a couple of issues and you might get classified as a "Grant Groupie!" C4 |
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Posted: 7/8/2005 6:05:20 PM EDT
[#38]
I have used a few mil issue and personal purchased ARMS items over the years, but the LT (especially the military gear with the back up lever locks) are the way to go for mounting, no issues with “out of spec” USGI issue receivers etc. For a BUIS the ARMS is still ahead of the game because they make a great folder, the LT one just gets in the way of allot of optics. They may be great for Aimpoints, but if your issued anything else it won’t work.
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Posted: 7/8/2005 6:23:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Guys,
This can go on FOREVER. I have used ARMS products in the past with good success. I have also seen more than one disassemble itself during a training package. ARMS can make some pretty serviceable gear, and if it fits your needs, run with it and BE HAPPY. There are plenty of legitimate, hard shooters that use ARMS stuff. However, having seen, used and abused the LaRue product, I am a believer. Mark LaRue is committed to making a quality product, and he has done so with his various mounts. I have several mounts for my EOTech, Aimpoints, and S&B Short Dot. I also own several of their handguards and BUIS. They all work as advertised, and I have tested each for return to zero capability. They did not disappoint. Fit and finish are second to none, and every piece is a shining example of machined art. LaRue makes everything in house and their QC is outstanding. I was recently involved in a training package that involved quite a few industry notables, including more than a handful of Real Deal shooters with varying backgrounds. Here are some pictures. Note the common theme:         Tim |
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Posted: 7/8/2005 6:43:48 PM EDT
[#40]
Tim-L:
Great pics! Let me ask you something - is it me or does the rifle in the first pic have an Aimpoint 3x magnifier in a LaRue cantilever mount that's facing backwards? |
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Posted: 7/8/2005 7:32:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Very astute observation. The shooter who set this up is a rock solid guy previously in the SO community. He purposely set it up this way because it works for him. His performance in the courses of fire proved it.
Tim |
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Posted: 7/9/2005 4:01:57 AM EDT
[#42]
Good pics Tim! C4 |
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Posted: 7/10/2005 1:00:20 PM EDT
[#43]
A certain person in this thread implied that the Military only uses ARMS products. So I thought I would share a pic skunk works project involving a UNS.
C4 www.gandrtactical.com 
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Posted: 7/10/2005 1:06:57 PM EDT
[#44]
Interesting... Well that latches are LaRue style, so is it safe to assume that the entire mounting system is LaRue? |
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Posted: 7/10/2005 1:17:35 PM EDT
[#45]
That is correct. C4 |
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Posted: 7/11/2005 6:42:04 AM EDT
[#46]
Why do we keep talking about "skunk works" as related to rifles? Lockheed will have your ass, they trademarked it.
Anyway, never used a LT ACOG mount, but hope to in the future. I couldn't get my ARMS 22M68 to stop wobbling, even with ALOT of torque and loctite. It would still shoot loose. I went with a one-piece LT M68, and never looked back. My second one (plus RAS II) should be arriving today from Grant. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 10:41:53 AM EDT
[#47]
I know this is an old thread, but just recently came accross it.
I don't own any optics right now. When I *do* finally decide on an optic, my mount will be LaRue. Now some will say "Why, DogOffLeash, will you be using a LaRue Tactical mount? XXX brand will do yyy and zzz for abc ammount less!" My friends, I will tell you why: While I was active duty with the US Air Force as a K-9 handler, the Aimpoint mount on my M4 said "LaRue". It worked, worked well, and best of all: I KNOW IT WORKS - FIRST HAND! It's often said in the AF that if you truely want to test a product, give it to the SP's. If you want it really broken, give it to K-9. The LaRue mounts held (and kept zero) throughout all the stuff we did with them. While not a professional "torture test" by any means, if it can survive our use & abuse on a daily basis, then I've got to go with that product for my personal use. I'm not in the business of attempting to fix shit that ain't broke. LaRue products work as advertised. Phil Former USAF K-9 |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 5:51:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Everybody I know says that if you want cool sunglasses, you go looking around an air base. If you want to know about weapons you ask a Marine. haveIn the future I'll probably standardize on LaRue because they seem to be a little better machined.
BTW: My KAC cantilever Aimpoint mount sucked, it is the only mount I've had that bent an Aimpoint tube. The upper and lower rings were slightly mismatched and creased the Aimpoint with minimal torque on the screws. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 6:24:32 PM EDT
[#49]
LaRue has great products (even if some people cannot install them properly....sigh) and I spec them on everything. Unfortunately, I'm still stuck with A.R.M.S. on some items simply because the manufacturer supplies them but working hard to try and see if LT can squeeze me a little time.
My current fantasy is a LT levered M1913 rail M203. It's been sent to Mark as an idea. I think they would be fabulous compared to the current rail grabber mounts. RHS mounted levers to stay clear of the tube locking latch. |
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Posted: 8/9/2005 9:12:25 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Everybody I know says that if you want cool sunglasses, you go looking around an air base. If you want to know about weapons you ask a Marine. have One team, one fight. |
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