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Posted: 8/29/2002 10:04:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Dave,
chek yr E-mail MikeT |
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Posted: 9/2/2002 12:14:47 AM EDT
[#2]
what do you put them on when you bake them?
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Posted: 9/2/2002 12:43:50 AM EDT
[#3]
I hung mine with pieces of wire hangers from the rack in the oven.
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Posted: 9/20/2002 9:08:01 AM EDT
[#4]
I spoke with a gentleman today at Neely Industries (another source of Perma-Slik G in Arlington, TX - see the thread below) about heat-curing the mags after refinishing.
He said that it was NOT necessary to bake the mags, the spec sheet for the Perma-Slik specifically states that "it is useful in applications where heat-cured finishes are not practicable." He said that "it might not be a good idea to expose it to very high temperatures", i.e. 300+ F. The can says that the mags are cured after air-drying for six hours. I think this will avoid the need to find a way to get the spousal unit out of the house for a couple of hours while baking the mags [:D] HTH Edit: About high temps - I find that I obtain a much better finish if I spray the mags with the first coat when they're fresh out of the oven from the drying cycle (200 F). I spray the second coat on 30 minutes later, then let it air-cure for 12 hours. PS: Old habits die hard - I did a batch of 20-rounders with two coats, then baked them for an hour at 200 F. Turned out very well. |
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Posted: 9/29/2002 7:16:17 AM EDT
[#5]
Is the PermaSlik for alluminum only or can you refinish other metal mags? I have some steel and a few alloy FAL mags I would like to try refinishing as well as some M14 mags.
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Posted: 9/29/2002 10:02:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Is the PermaSlik for aluminum only or can you refinish other metal mags? I have some steel and a few alloy FAL mags I would like to try refinishing as well as some M14 mags. You can use Perma-Slik on any metal, I've used it on FAL aluminum mags too with good results. Just remember that surface prep is the key factor, as with any kind of painting. If you follow FALARAK's instructions on cleaning and drying you should get good results. It definitely helps to spray the mags when they're fresh out of the oven. Don't touch them with bare fingers (hot, ow!) but also because oils will be left behind which can affect adhesion. For steel FAL mags I prefer Brownells' satin black finish baking lacquer followed by a Break-Free rubdown to give a slightly glossy black look. HTH |
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Posted: 10/14/2002 5:57:03 AM EDT
[#7]
I recently refinished some 30rnd and 20rnd USGI mags with Permasilk G.
Buffed off old finish with 0000 steel wool, cleaned inside with mag brush in the sink, ran all in the Dishwasher for a long cycle. (Including floor plates and springs with old followers attached) I did not paint them while hot, coated them with one fairly heavy coat but didn't work in the same spot to avoid runs. Baked in the Oven at 300 for an hour, I would turn on the exhaust fan and open a nearby window as the first 10-15minutes had a fair bit of smoke/odor. (Was fine the next morning for my wife to bake in it) Let them cool overnite then buffed with a paper towel. They look great, I could not get as many done as others here. Did nineteen 30rnd mags and the first can was empty, guess I spray a bit heavier or just don't aim as well. Sprayed only the really scratched floorplates with Ultra Flat Black Krylon. When you remove the overspray during buffing the mags take on just a bit of shine. Give it a try, you will like the way it looks. Mine look better than any I have. |
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Posted: 10/19/2002 8:00:45 AM EDT
[#8]
I HAVE FOUND THAT (INSTEAD OF A SCREWDRIVER) TO REMOVE THE FLOOR PLATES,A GOOD WAY TO BEND THEM..USE AN AWL,THE POINTED TOOL TO PUNCH THRU WOOD,SHEET BOARD,ETC..WORKS GREAT..INSERT IN HOLE,AND LIFT SLIGHTLY,JUST UNTIL THE FLOORPLATE RELEASES FROM THE MAG..NO BENT FLOOR PLATES,AND WHEN YOU REINSTALL,THEY FIT PERFECTLY. THIS WAS DURING REMOVAL OF THE FLOOR PLATES TO INSTALL NEW GREEN FOLLOWERS FROM (504PIR)...TRY IT..
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Posted: 10/19/2002 10:23:06 AM EDT
[#9]
[b]Why bake them in the oven?
The directions on the can say nothing about that?[/b] I always overdue things, I put 3 coats on my mags. |
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Posted: 10/19/2002 2:36:27 PM EDT
[#10]
( NOW HAVE 1 NEW CAN LEFT)$15 TO YOUR DOOR)!!!I USED THE PERMA SILK D ,AND DON'T CARE FOR IT..I AIRBRUSH MY MAGS USING K-KOTE. (I NOW HAVE 2-BRAND NEW UNOPENED CANS OF PERMA SILK D,PLUS 1 CAN ABOUT 3/4 FULL,(FOR SALE)..YOU GET THE USED CAN FOR FREE..$30 SHIPPED TO YOUR DOOR.WHAT CAN I SAY,TO EACH THEIR OWN..I JUST RECIEVED THESE CANS ABOUT 3 DAYS AGO..LIKE I SAID,YOU ARE BASICALLY GETTING 3 CANS FOR 2,AND EVEN AT THAT,CHEAPER THAN THEY SELL FOR..ALL I DID WAS 5 -20RND COLT MAGS,NOW I HAVE TO FIGURE ON HOW TO GET IT OFF..ANYONE KNOW??? THANKS.
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Posted: 10/30/2002 5:18:52 AM EDT
[#11]
Hello everybody. Cool post thanks for the info. I had wanted to refinish my mags for a while Now I can. Great job, the mags look awesome.
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Posted: 11/20/2002 4:44:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: NOW I HAVE TO FIGURE ON HOW TO GET IT OFF..ANYONE KNOW??? THANKS. Acetone. |
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Posted: 11/28/2002 7:02:18 AM EDT
[#13]
Looks great. Can anyone tell us how durable(scratch resistant) the Permaslik finish is in routine use?
One of the earler posts asked about this, but I never saw much feedback from the people who had done it. Can you let us know? Thanks. |
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Posted: 12/2/2002 5:17:48 PM EDT
[#14]
It's about as durable as a new mag... but a little better. It does scratch and mark up with use, but I find it to be better than NIW USGI mags, using my procedures.
It would not be as scratch resistant as say, Brownell's teflon/moly.... but this is not a retro-coating, this is getting them to new USGI spec, and looking great. |
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Posted: 12/3/2002 2:29:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Thanks, Falarak. I enjoyed your info. |
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Posted: 12/3/2002 4:11:22 PM EDT
[#16]
When I apply the Perma-Slik to mine they are very glossy. Looks like a regular spray paint job. I cleaned them well and dried in the over @ 200 for 30 min. I will bake them tomorrow. Are they supposed to be glossy after you apply the PSG? Does the oven cure turn them dull?
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Posted: 12/3/2002 4:18:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Mine were dull right after spraying.
Glossy finishes are from spraying way too heavy. Several very light coats, letting dry in between, give better results. When you spray on thick, it becomes glossy and also does not coat as evenly. |
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Posted: 12/5/2002 7:02:18 AM EDT
[#18]
I have used another product called "Slip Plate" for refinishing mags. It contains a graphite lube rather than moly. It appears that the Permacoat is more durable but the Slip Plate cost under $6 a can.
I not only steel wool the mags but clean them with lacquer thinner. It removes all of the old finish. Bob |
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Posted: 12/5/2002 1:14:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Armalite says Sandstrom 27A:
November 7, 2000 TECHNICAL NOTE 43: Refinishing AR-15™, M-16, and AR-10B Magazines BACKGROUND: Most AR-15™/M-16 rifle magazines were made of 6061 Aluminum finished with hard-coat anodizing covered with a gray, Teflon-bearing paint-like material called “Dry Film Lubricant,” or DFL. DFL is slick, but is easily worn to the point that the underlying anodizing is exposed. Fortunately, it is easy to remove DFL and refinish the magazine. Later magazines were finished with a Teflon-type hard finish that doesn’t wear as quickly. When it becomes scarred the hard finish cannot be easily refinished. The late magazines can, however, be refinished with DFL in the same manner as the earlier magazines and look like new. AR-10B magazines benefit from the lubricity provided by DFL, especially when it is applied internally to help the follower slide in the shell. A freshly phosphated surface accepts DFL very well, and is thoroughly protected against rust as long as the DFL is present. MATERIALS REQUIRED: Dry Film Lubricant, Sandstrom number 27A, black Acetone for degreasing Latex gloves, lint-free cloth, and newspaper or other backdrop for handling, cleaning and spraying. REFINISHING INSTRUCTIONS: First, disassemble the magazine and degrease it with acetone. Complete removal of the old DFL isn’t needed. What is needed is complete removal of all grease from the magazine and smoothing out the remaining DFL. Don’t touch the cleaned surface with bare fingers after cleaning, or the new DFL will come off. Second, spray-paint the magazine shell with DFL in a clean, dust-free area. Shake the DFL well and frequently. Paint the inside of the magazine first, then the outside. A very thin layer is enough. In fact, over-thick coatings can interfere with the fit and reliability of the magazine. It’s easiest to spray-paint one side of the magazine first and let the magazine dry overnight. Repeat on the other side. Degrease and spray-paint the floorplate as well. When finished, tip the canister upside down and clear the spray tip. Apply DFL to AR-10 magazines in the same manner as described above, with priority to the inside of the magazine. DFL is available from some hardware stores, but is normally hard to find. ArmaLite sells Sandstrom DFL for $26 per 13 ounce spray bottle. Shipping costs are considerable because a $15 HAZMAT charge applied by UPS, so it’s best to combine orders with friends to spread the cost over several canisters. DFL has a short life-expectancy, so should be used before the posted expiration date. © 2000 ArmaLite, Inc. [url]http://www.armalite.com/index-old.htm[/url] |
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Posted: 12/5/2002 2:08:15 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm not really qualified to give advice, but having done some work for a chemical company awhile back, when I see words like ACETONE and HAZMAT I would just like to remind everyone that some of the chemicals we use for cleaning, and some of the sprays, are dangerous to your breathing apparatus (lungs). Be especially careful since a lot of this is done in the storage building in the back yard, or in a corner of the garage, where there isn't a lot of ventilation.
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Posted: 12/26/2002 4:08:40 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: I invested $10 per used mag, plus $2.50 for the new spring and green follower, and about $1 a mag in paint.... and I end up with a brand spanking better-than-new mag for under $14 a mag. Plus it was a lot of fun. Where did you buy the used mags for 10 bucks each? |
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Posted: 12/26/2002 6:16:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: I'm not really qualified to give advice, but having done some work for a chemical company awhile back, when I see words like ACETONE and HAZMAT I would just like to remind everyone that some of the chemicals we use for cleaning, and some of the sprays, are dangerous to your breathing apparatus (lungs). Be especially careful since a lot of this is done in the storage building in the back yard, or in a corner of the garage, where there isn't a lot of ventilation. The first two times I refinished mags in the garage (with an open door) with Perma-Slik G, I got slightly dizzy from the fumes (probably my brain cells dying off.) The stuff stinks too. Norrell's Moly Resin is even worse. I now use a 3M 6000 series respirator with dual organic vapor filters - no dizziness, no smell. My brain cells are happy. Cost - $30.00 at Home Depot. DO NOT use the itty-bitty paper filter dust masks - dust is all it will filter, the organic solvent fumes will still fry your brain and lungs. I also use an old lab coat and yellow rubber dishwashing gloves, as you can definitely soak up the organic solvents through the skin. HTH, Gabe |
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Posted: 1/11/2003 5:29:27 AM EDT
[#23]
Haz Mat charges are now $20.00 and DO NOT apply to the Perma Slik G from Georgia Precision.
Plenty in stock at GPSS. [b] Order Online-HERE[/b] [url]www.georgiaprecision.com/cats/catarmag.htm[/url] |
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Posted: 1/15/2003 1:34:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Nice job on the mags Iv'e got some 20's I need to redo. Thanks for the info.
Tarheelgnr2 |
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Posted: 1/19/2003 12:09:41 PM EDT
[#25]
I just refinished 12 magazines. Instead of using papertowel to remove the excess finish, I used a Swifter dusting cloth. It burnished the finish to a semigloss grey thats a little more "tactical" looking. The papertowel polished the first mag and made it very silvery.
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Posted: 1/22/2003 4:39:58 AM EDT
[#26]
You did a great job on them. I only have two suggestions that I found to be very helpful, if you would like them. I have refinished about 30
1 I found that if you round over the end of the wire coat hanger and put it inside the magazine itself you don’t have to worry about build up or missing a spot on the magazine release hole. 2. Elmer’s Teflon Draw-slider spray. You can get it at Home Depot , comes in a small with spray can with an orange top. A small spray inside the magazine and you have a dry lubricant that will not attract dirt or hold sand. Be careful of over spray it will leave a white powder residue on the magazines. Where did you get the shoebox and the zip locks? They both seem to be the perfect size. 308Sniper |
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Posted: 1/22/2003 6:24:31 AM EDT
[#27]
"The Container Store"
If you dont have one in your neighborhood, they are online. |
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Posted: 1/27/2003 5:42:26 PM EDT
[#28]
[blue]Awesome post FALARAK! I just completed rebuilding/refinishing all 20 of my 30 rounders and they look great and feed flawlessly! [/blue][:D]
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Posted: 2/6/2003 4:33:21 AM EDT
[#29]
I've just refinished about 60 magazines, and I [b]didn't use any heat at all[/b] (1.3 cans)
My wife would have killed me if I tried to use the oven. The first batch was done a few months ago when it was warmer. The other 2 batches I just did. Cold temperatures did produce a little bit of running and dots, but some of that was my impatience and the speed I did them. Still, the runs were very, very minor and the mags look great. [b]Thanks Georgia Precision![/b] |
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Posted: 3/1/2003 7:48:45 AM EDT
[#30]
Falarak,
Your original post seems to indicate that you applied 'one' coat of Perma-Slik to the mags, allowed to dry, then baked. Did you find any reason to apply a second or third coat to the mags as some have stated they have? Is one coat all that is necessary? I would think that 2 or more coats would just raise the surface of the moly coat, which would be much more readily scrapred off when being slid into the rifle...! Would appreciate anyone's experience on number of coats and level of finish being scraped off. |
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Posted: 3/5/2003 10:29:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: I not only steel wool the mags but clean them with lacquer thinner. It removes all of the old finish. Bob I use gloves when handling lacquer thinner. It is easily absorbed through the skin and hard on the liver. I used to paint cars and Yes, I used lacquer thinner to clean my hands. Not any more. YMMV, The Other Chris |
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Posted: 3/12/2003 7:26:39 AM EDT
[#32]
Just rebuilt a few of mine and they turned out very well. Replaced all of the black followers with the green ones. Floorplates and springs from Bushmaster. Also coated a small .32 pistol that didnt have any finish and it turned out great. Very smooth action with this stuff on it. Thanks for the info FALARAK! VERY GOOD!!!!! Thanks to everyone else for all the other tips too!!! I used a small toaster oven on the front porch to bake my stuff. I only had a few to do so I didnt have to have as much room. I know a lot of you have bunches of mags and its not practical, but its an idea if you only need to do a few parts.
Question: Do you guys try to coat the inside of the mag body? I did and was wondering if anyone else did. |
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Posted: 4/3/2003 6:36:52 AM EDT
[#33]
someone mentioned Brownells earlier. If you search on "baking laquers" several products are returned. Has anyone had much experience with any of these....especially the teflon /moly oven cure product?
Its not that I have a problem with Perma-slik, but wanted to know if there were alternatives. I have about 20 Styer FAL mags that I need to do and want to know the best overall choice for doing this job. Thanks |
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Posted: 4/3/2003 6:39:17 AM EDT
[#34]
someone mentioned Brownells earlier. If you search on "baking laquers" several products are returned. Has anyone had much experience with any of these....especially the teflon /moly oven cure product?
Its not that I have a problem with Perma-slik, but wanted to know if there were alternatives. I have about 20 Styer FAL mags that I need to do and want to know the best overall choice for doing this job. Thanks |
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Posted: 4/14/2003 6:06:59 PM EDT
[#35]
A friend of mine has the Hot Coat powder coating system, is there any reason I shouldn't powder-coat some mags?
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Posted: 4/28/2003 7:55:10 PM EDT
[#36]
I got all worked up reading about the magazine refinishing so I ordered some Perma Slik G and also some Brownell's Teflon Moly to try it for myself. The Perma Slik hasn't made it in yet but I went ahead and tried the teflon moly. It was fabulous. I was able to do 19 mags total with one can. I followed the instructions and allow the finish to air dry about 30 minutes out on my deck in the sun and then baked them at 300 degrees for about 30 minutes or so. They couldn't have turned out any better. I'm anxious to see how the Perma Slik G does when it comes in, but it will have to be really impressive to beat the results I got from the teflon moly. I want to see for myself the durability of both with regular use. Thanks everyone for their posting on their experience with the refinishing.
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Posted: 5/5/2003 6:25:54 AM EDT
[#37]
I just got in a Bunch Of COLT Mags (20 rounds) that have little or NO finish left.
These would be GREAT for those Mag Refinishing Projects. [b] I am offering these to you Guys First at $20.00 ea. BUY 10 for $180.00 and Get FREE DELIVERY. Or, you could call this "Buy 9 & Get One FREE". Also, Get a Can or Perma Slik G with your mag Purchase for only $10.00 per can.[/b] You must buy some used mags to get this Special Price. Hurry, these will not last long. Tommy GPSS 478.994.4560 [email protected] [url]www.georgiaprecision.com[/url] |
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Posted: 5/12/2003 10:10:47 AM EDT
[#38]
I just refinished several mags by spraypainting them with Alumahyde which I purchased from Brownells. It was dry to the touch in 15 minutes and I put another coat on. Fifteen minutes later they were dry to the toch and I left them in the sunshine to cure. The finish is nice and pretty tough. I haven't seen this recommended anywhere. Any reason why?
__________________________________________ Eternal vigilance is the price of Freedom! |
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Posted: 5/12/2003 10:30:33 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: I just refinished several mags by spraypainting them with Alumahyde...... ......I haven't seen this recommended anywhere. Any reason why? There are several different coatings that work well for USGI mags, many of which get mentioned here. All have pro's and cons. I like permaslik simply because it is the mil-spec, a lubricant, and can easily be touched up later. There are certainly "tougher" finishes out there, that provide excellent results. The most important thing is to find something that works for you, and do it! Keep those mags working well.... for yourself and future generations. |
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Posted: 5/14/2003 9:54:52 PM EDT
[#40]
After reading this thread, I purchased Perma-Silk G and painted 11 of my 30-rd USGI magazines with it. They turned out BEAUTIFUL and quite tough! What's interesting to me is that while I was cleaning up the mags prior to painting, a few of them appeared to have been painted with something very similar to Perma-Silk. Why is this interesting? Because I got all my USGI magazines from the USMC when I was in (somehow, they ended up in my pack when I left the 'Corps; go figure!).
Most of them have green followers, and I'll get more to finish the rest off later. They are mostly LaBelle's and Adventurelines, but I have a few Sanchez, Okay, and one or two other makers. All but two fall free from magwells. Oh... and I broke one of my mags when I tried to bend one of the base tabs back to what looked more normal. I forgot how brittle aluminum can be; it doesn't like to be bent "back" once bent out of shape. I should have just left it. Now, it's a spares queen for when I need a spare spring, follower, or base. Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread: I now have 11 GREAT looking magazines! |
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Posted: 5/14/2003 10:30:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Only 11?
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Posted: 5/15/2003 11:08:01 AM EDT
[#42]
Yes: I have 16 magazines total, of which five are nearly new and in plastic bags. These don't need any refinishing at the moment, so they won't be painted. Yet. The other eleven I own were all refinished, and all look great.
When I get more magazines, and if they're not new, I'll refinish them with Perma-Silk as well. |
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Posted: 5/15/2003 5:59:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: I just refinished several mags by spraypainting them with Alumahyde which I purchased from Brownells. It was dry to the touch in 15 minutes and I put another coat on. Fifteen minutes later they were dry to the toch and I left them in the sunshine to cure. The finish is nice and pretty tough. I haven't seen this recommended anywhere. Any reason why? I used Alumahyde II to refinish some G3 and Cetme mags. I also did an old single shot shotgun and an old K98 mauser with the stuff. It worked well. Just did two of my 30 round AR mags that most of the finish were worn off. One bad thing about the Alumahyde II is it does scratch off if it is a tight fit in the mag well. plus it takes about a week to fully cure. Still it is easy and can be touched up. I like the fact it is a better color match. __________________________________________ Eternal vigilance is the price of Freedom! |
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Posted: 5/19/2003 10:06:16 AM EDT
[#44]
The Alumahyde does scratch off and it does case a tight fit. Next time, I'll use Permasilk. Live and learn.
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Posted: 5/19/2003 8:04:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Pretty picture of one of my recently re-finished magazines in my M4gery:
[img]http://www.burnerblog.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_m4%20002a.jpg[/img] I just went to the range today, and the magazines all held up GREAT to the abuse my son and I put them through! They still look great, and I had quite a few compliments on my "new USGI magazines" from people at the range! |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 4:48:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Lone_Wolf, would you happen to have any pics of the teflon/moly refinished mags?
Did they fit in the mag well right? Did they feed right? How did you prep them, steel wool? Acitone? HFE7100 vapor degreesing followed by an NVR?(joking, work has been getting to me lately) |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 8:35:00 PM EDT
[#47]
I'm going to do the same mag refinishing job using the Sandstrom 27A DFL (as I already ordered it before I read this post), does anyone have any experience with this stuff?
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Posted: 6/7/2003 4:13:58 PM EDT
[#48]
[center]If I can do it, anyone can. I paid $12 a piece for these USGI Mags. $1 ea. for the green followers and now I have as good as new mags that are now sitting in VpCI™ corrosion proof bags to at least September 2004.[;)][/center][center][img]http://home.nc.rr.com/blueshockey77/perma_slik.jpg[/img][/center]
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Posted: 6/7/2003 5:08:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: ...Keep those mags working well... for yourself and future generations. Remember, do it for the children [;)] |
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Posted: 6/19/2003 2:08:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Well, I'm going for it.
I got some mags for 7.50 a piece on EE Got: Perma-Silk Paint 8 followers 8 springs All from CMMG who had great prices! Thanks for the tuitorial. Fidel |
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