Added 1 / 21/ 2010:

This Thread has been moving up in numbers of people reading it by about 750 to 1000 every week lately. I don't know if it also registers the count when a visitor or "Lerker" reads it. We're all here to give and receive answers. I personally enjoy helping others, so If anyone has questions or you thinking of signing up on ARFCOM. I would be happy to offer my help and AR15.com would be happy to have you join if you haven't already. You can do it for free or you can gain some nice added benefits with a membership at various levels. Trust me, this site is the biggest knowledge base for much more than just AR-15's and M16's on the planet. There are more true experts here than is imaginable. A combined total of many Millions of years experience. I learn new things every day and it's not just from those with years and years of experience. At times it will be the new guy, with 5 or 10 posts that's just started to learn who can see things so clearly that the rest of us can't.


SpecOps-13 in Florida
Added 8/24/2009: This topic has become a knowledge base for those getting into AR-22's. It's a mixture of testing with standard conversions, dedicated rifles, uppers and custom builds. Information about ammo used and range reports. You can read it all or skip the parts that you're not interested in. As time goes on more data will be here, in one place, to give you a better idea of what you really want to accomplish with your AR-22. And what you'll need to better meet your shooting goals.

My initial testing was accomplished with WalMart Federal Bulk. As time has gone on I've found it to be inconsistent and have gone to better ammunition's than bulk for refined testing. But initially the use of the same ammo was necessary to establish an equal playing field. To set a baseline for the accuracy of various combinations. Use the knowledge gained to bring yourself up to speed more quickly and shoot better sooner.

Everyone is welcome to make entries here. It's for everyone on ARFCOM. Please, lets try to stick mainly to the subject of everything 22 and accurate reporting. Lets try to let those who read draw their own conclusions based on the information here.
I know, I'll be the one to screw that up, if I haven't already.

Added 9/14/2009: If you're reading this topic from the beginning, keep this thought in mind as you read. There are ways to make any AR-15 twist rate very target capable. You may see some comments about the 1:7"  (In Particular) but possibly the 1:9", or even 1:12" twist rate barrels lacking accuracy potential. After initial baseline evaluation were done and with the help and suggestions of others here at ARFCOM, I started testing the various twist rate barrels with ammunition more suited to each. Don't be disheartened by initial evaluations or comments.  As you read through the posts you'll find that even the 1:7" is capable of 5/8", 5 shot groups @ 25 yards using the right ammo.  With the right combination of optics, ammunition and accessories, it only gets better.


Spec

Original Post:
As some of you may know, I've been shooting standard 22 Conversions nearly every week for the past several years. I've mainly done JAC Units because I have so many.
I have been happy with the Accuracy and Reliability in everything except 1 in 7" Twist Barrels. Best I've done is 4" with Federal Bulk. Better suited ammo means much better groups with these as you will see later in these posts.

With no AR Barrels or .223 Bolt Assemblies Available, I decided to do a dedicated 22. I'm getting DT's having nothing to build.
I ordered a Spikes Green Mountain Dedicated 16". M4 Barrel and Spike's Dedicated Bolt yesterday. I was just notified by UPS that it will be delivered today. Unfrigging Believable.
When it gets here I plan to put it together with a Flat Top Receiver and Fabricate whatever else I don't have to get an Upper together. It'll require a Barrel Nut, Delta Pack, Handguard, Handguard Cap and something to replicate a gas Block to hold all that on. I've got most of that on hand.  I've done 150 shot groups with a 1 in 12" and a 1 in 9" Rifle the past couple weeks that can be used for comparison when I get that far. Maybe in the coming weeks/months I can help answer some of the Accuracy Questions by comparing a dedicated 1 in 16" Twist with the standard .223 Conversion. I have no reliability issues with standard conversions using Federal Bulk. I do consider  the Atchison or Atchison Ciener Style Unit to be the most Accurate of the Conversions due to it's 2 rail design. Several manufacturer's are making this style conversion at the present time. This basic design is what Spikes uses with some Mods to the Chamber Adapter, Plating, O-Rings on the chamber adapter  and possibly other parts too.
Customer Service with Spikes has always been 1st Class and the people are Great. Over the Years I've done a lot of .223's with various parts from them and been very happy with the outcome.

SO-13

The rifles:

Tactical Solutions M4 upper
Rock River Arms lower
Rock River Arms 2-stage NM trigger
Centerpoint 4-16x 40mm AO

Tactical Solutions LT upper
Spikes Tactical lower
Rock River Arms 2-stage NM trigger
Centerpoint 4-16x 40mm AO

The ammo:

CCI Green Tag Match
CCI Mini Mag HP
CCI Standard Velocity
Eley Match
Federal 525 Bulk (Blue Box)
Winchester 333 Bulk
Wolf Match

The conditions:

All groups were shot at an indoor range using a make-shift bench rest. All groups were shot at 25 yards. I fired 2 groups per target with each gun, alternating between guns - M4, LT, M4, LT. The top and bottom groups on each target with fired with the LT. The left and right targets were fired with the M4. The center target was used with a few rounds from each gun just to see where they would print.

The targets:

The red target dots are 1" in diameter. All groups for record were 5 shots.















I have been trying to get these 2 rifles as equal as possible so that I could determine which one is the most accurate. I was finally able to get both uppers to run with match triggers. I would have bet from some previous range testing that the M4 would have a slight edge, but it would be pretty close to a toss up. Seems I was wrong! In my case, at least, I'd say the LT is clearly the winner. I expected the CCI Green Tag to shoot the best, but both my rifles seem to prefer the Eley Match. On the last target I was shooting the LT with Wolf Match and had a great 4 shot group going on the bottom target spot. I knew the 5th shot was a flier before I looked through the scope. My bench rest skills aren't what they used to be.

Tom->

BIG thanks to SpecOps-13 and all the others that have contributed to this thread. I took the plunge into the AR22 world by buying a CMMG conversion kit from Palmetto State Armory for $169 with 3 BDM mags. I took it to the range today and put it in my Bushmaster 1/9 twist upper. I was pretty happy with the way it performed. I sprayed it down with CLP and put in a zip lock bag and let it sit for 2 days before going to the range.

The ammo used:

CCI Mini Mag HP  
Federal 525 Bulk
Winchester 333 Bulk
Winchester Super X
Remington Thunderbolt

I had 2 FTE and 2 double fires with the Federal Bulk, 1 FTE with the Winchester 333 & all kinds of issues with the Thunderbolt. No issues with CCI or Super X. I shot about 200 rounds, stopped and but a few .223 down the pipe then shot another 200 followed by a few .223

I didn't really shot for accuracy but had some nice groups at 25 yards. The upper is zeored for .223 at 50 yards and the POI of the .22lr at 25 yards was about 2-3 inches low.

I can tell that I'm going to have a great time with this kit. Great for plinking, cheap and lots of fun! Also great for introducing new shooters to the AR platform

And it's going to save you a boat load of money! But best of all, it's just plain fun snowbalt.

This is one great thread.

I built a AR-22 to match my RRA service rifle. My thinking was I would do more trigger time if I could shoot cheaper but finding out I'm not to pleased with the results. I'm using a Model 1 Sales 20" dedicated 22 barrel with a Spikes dedicated conversion. The barrel was installed with a float tube and has the same match sights as my service rifle. They both even weigh the same at 14 pounds. The only difference is the triggers, service rifle has a Knights Arm. two stage trigger and the AR-22 has a sweetly tuned single stage stock trigger and they both brake at 3.5 pounds.

Now the sad part...........using the below ammo, shooting off the bench using a good front rest and rear bag I can't get it under 1 3/4" groups at 50 yards on a good day. All the ammo ran great so I'm thinking I have it tuned pretty good.

Federal Target 714
CCI Mini Mags
Aguila Match Rifle
SK Standard Plus
Federal 510B
Blazer
Federal Champion
CCI Standard Velocity
Eley Sport (stuff sucked)
Federal 550
Federal Auto Match
Federal Bulk Pack (Walmart)


I was in hopes of 1" or better groups at that distance. I've tweeked, adjusted, cleaned and cussed and nothing seems to help. The crown is darn near perfect and the bore slugs at about .2225"-.223". I have shimmed the rear of the conversion so the chamber ring does not move during cycling.

Am I just expecting to much out of this setup and if so, what would be realistic? The 10/22 can out shoot this thing and there can't be that much difference the two........can there?

Any advice?

Sounds like you've done a good job at covering bases. You should be able to hold a better group than that.
At some point, you should be able to do atleast a few 1/2" groups. Only ammo I don't see that may make
a difference could be CCI Green Tag, Wolf MT or ME. A Center Point 4-16X40mm Scope from Wal Mart would
also help. I didn't see an optic. It should shoot with an off the shelf 10/22 for sure. Your bore slug seems to be
a bit large for a dedicated 22 barrel. but it may be the way your measuring.


Good Luck,
Spec

Range reports May 2010 added from standard threads that have dropped into the depths of the index...


Spike's Lothar Walther M4 Dedicated 22

I kinda got side tracked with the Lothar Walther Bull Barrel a while back and the M4 fell by
the wayside. Granted, the Bull Barrel is the ultimate in accuracy, there are few AR-22's that
can compete with it. The Lothar Walther M4's no slouch in it's own right. It's cost over Spike's
Green Mountain barrel is small when you consider the difference in accuracy capability. Some
of my original estimates way back put that difference at a 33% improvement. When I started firing
more expensive and higher quality ammo, that difference grew considerably depending on the ammo
used.

I was shooting on this day just to relax. The top targets were shot at my old standard of just enough
time between shots to reacquire the target. The bottom 3 targets were my honest attempt to get the
absolute most out of Federal Bulk. I've run into a couple lots of my stash that are exceptionally consistent
I took my time with each shot. I think they're pretty good groups for bulk ammo. The center target of the 3
on the bottom measures roughly 0.256 Center to Center, not shabby at all.

Oh, Indoor Range and Oops Edit in: Center Point 4-16x40mm mil reticule scope was set to 5x





Tactical Solutions M4 Dedicated 22

Another rifle I love to shoot. The Tac Sol M4. This too was at the indoor range and all targets were shot at 25 yards.
I'm using a second hand 3-9x40mm Simmons with a fine cross hair set to 5x. The top 6 targets are 5 shot groups.

The top 2 targets are CCI Standard Velocity. The hits are low because the bullet speed is lower than the other ammo
I was using. The scope is dialed in for a compromise with various ammo.

Second 2 targets are a little bit tighter groups. Chalk that up to the Wolf MT quality. The tightest group was appx. 3/8"

The third set of targets were fired using Federal Bulk. All of the above targets are clips from official 75 ft. small bore rifle targets.

The bottom 2 groups "Shoot n See" are 50 shot groups, Rapid Fire.   Left, Federal Bulk. Right, Wolf Match Target.

Thanks Spec,

I failed to mention I am using a Tasco Varmint 24X scope on the AR-22. I would be tickled with a 1/2" group every once in awhile. I am trying to find some Green Tag and Wolf locally but don't have much faith in either because the SK Standard Plus didn't do well. The company I work for is a supplier to ATK/CCI but we can't purchase Green Tag directly.

I just bought some Winchester 333 bulk pack, Winchester Super Speed HP (1330 FPS) and Remington 22 Target.

You know, it get's a little aggervating trying to find the right pill to shoot thru this thing but I am having fun. When I find some Green Tag and Wolf I'll post a update, may even get some top shelf Eley.

The range I belong to is hosting the NRA Smallbore Regionals this weekend. Someone always has the good stuff ($15+ and up) for sale.

Had another run with CMMG kit
Stag Arms 1:9

Found someone to finally open the ammo case at Walmart so I got a hold of some federal. Wow this stuff is a lot cleaner/shiny then the Winchester bulk 555.

-Federal Bulk 550. Shot great at 50 yards, had a few jams but I think that's just my kit.
-CCI Mini Mags, Great ammo seemed to burn cleaner.
-CCI Velocitator... Just as bad as Remington Gold Bullets, Jamed every other round. Not sure if this is well known not to work, or its just my set up, or a bad lot. But for $10 per 50, Im happy i only bought 100 rounds of it.

Im not sure if its normal or not buy my kit seems to jam a unfired round vertically in-between the bolt and chamber adapter every few mags or so. Anyone else have this happen?

I apologize for the lack of pics, but I just ran my new Stainless CMMG kit tonight with the black dog mags.  Here are my results:

The rifle:

CMP 20" 1:9 upper A2 upper, all colt.  
Lower is a PWA with I believe a stock RRA lpk installed.  I am using a NOTCHED hammer.

Ammo:

Winchester 333 bulk hollowpoints (36 grain).  These by far performed the best––groups could be covered with a quarter at 25M.  This weight ammo is recommended  by CMMG.
Winchester Super X:  Groups spread out––greater than 2" in some cases.  Wasn't fond of how this ammo performed either in the convo kit or in the 10/22 I brought along
Federal (unknown––probably bulk):  Meh.  Groups were around 2" too.  Not as great as the 333.  
Aguila Super SSS 60Gr:  This stuff is disgusting.  It looks cool, but it groups like crap. Groups were maybe 3" at 25 yards and it let off a putrid smoke that smelled like someone was taking a shit in my rifle and setting it on fire.  I only shot 5 rounds before I had to go out for some fresh air.  I'll save this stuff for my handguns.  

Kit was brand new.  I squirted a few drops of lube before running.  Absolutely ZERO malfunctions of any kind after 150 rds or so.  I was shocked how well it performed with the chrome-lined 1:9 barrel and notched hammer.  I love this!  My only regret is not buying one sooner. It's definitely going to be my Appleseed Day 1 setup.

Jred255: I never tried CCI Velocitator so you get the credit for finding out
that it's not the best. Every once in a while a round will get stuck straight up
sometimes it's because the magazine is resting on something or isn't totally
seated. Other times there seems to be no reason...


Boognish: Aguila SSS does stink, I haven't had a lot of luck in a 1:9" but
it worked well in my 1"7". A few failures for Federal Bulk is normal. We all
wish we'd started shooting 22's sooner.

Spec

Stink? Is that the term of the day for eye searing stench from the black lagoon?
I fired a couple rounds and had to stop. Got my eyes cleared, tried again, yup, definitely the ammo. It works great, but oh wow is that stuff nasty. It doesn't appear to carry far though, if I use it in my pistol I barely notice it. I'm tempted to give it more of a try in my bolt action, but unless I discover that it is particularly accurate in the pistol (was just shooting plates) I'm not spending the extra for it. I guess if I ran a suppressor on the pistol it would be more tempting, but I'd want a gas mask with full coverage for use in the AR, particularly with a suppressor.

As for the vertical jam, I've noticed that it seems to directly relate to recoil impulse. If my spring is too light for a round it will do that far more often. I've basically settled on 38gr sub sonics, and if I run normal or high velocity stuff without a stronger spring I get that jam a lot. In case anyone hasn't figured out the quick fix, pull the ch back just a bit, then use a fingertip to keep the bolt from moving forward and relax the ch. Preferably with the magazine removed. The stuck round drops clear 9 out of ten times. I would have expected the SSS to do this, but it didn't, the only issue I had was the horrible fumes.

Yesterday was my first time out with a .22LR conversion.  I used a CMMG parkerized kit in a BCM 16" 1/7 upper, with a BDM 10 round mag.

100 rounds CCI Velocitor 40gr:  I had malfunctions about 25%-30% of the time shooting this.  It seemed to be entirely feeding problems, with a live round getting stuck vertically between the bolt head and the top of the conversion unit.  I had to remove the conversion unit to clear this kind of malfunction several times.  This ammo was expensive ($8 per 50) but was the only copper jacketed .22LR the range had for sale.

By chance, there was an open but unclaimed box of CCI Minimag 36gr HP left on the range.  I fired the remaining 80 rounds in that box and had no malfunctions.  Unfortunately, it seems like no one has this ammo in stock.

List Updated with new inputs 6/15/2011
This was originally a normal thread but it's slipped back in the index so I'm putting it up here so we can continue to
get, add and correct the information. This is a work in progress. it's the latest information I have. I edit this
post with new information as it comes in or as soon as I can. Eventually, this will be a go to list for the hammers and
trigger / packs and how they will work with various Conversions and Dedicated uppers. It's not perfect yet, it reflects
the information I have compiled from myself and OP as of my last update. Check my "Edit Date" on this post to see
when this info was last updated.

This is a list of various hammers / triggers, usable or unusable for 22 conversions and dedicated uppers.
I realize this isn't a perfect world, that some will be iffy. We're trying to be able to give even percentages of work and
won't work, I need help, if anyone knows of the ones I've missed... Or even variations of the ones I have, Please
IM me so we won't have an excess of posts here in the sticky'd thread... Thanx...   Also, let me know if I am wrong
about any of the information I have. I can edit this post to reflect the info you give me in the IM and we'll always have a
place to look for an answer.

I also realize that some manufacturers may be selling hammers being branded as their own. Help me so I can group
like items too.

These are individual hammers and triggers or trigger packs being used with AR-15 Conversions and AR-15 Dedicated uppers.
When I say "Works with all". I mean there are no known issues with any conversions or dedicated uppers.

Note: With the release of Nordic Components Upper, it is believed that it will work with any of the following Triggers / Hammers..
Tim at Nordic believes their upper will work with any trigger group combination that will work with an AR-15... Please let me know
if that is not a true statement, Thanx. SpecOps-13

Alexander Arms: No inputs yet.
Accuracy Speaks: Accuracy Speaks own single stage works fine with all applications.
AR Gold: No Good Reports...
Bushmaster: Works with, CMMG, Target Master, Ciener. Not with Spike's or  Tac Sol Upper?
Colt Rounded: Works with all.
Colt Notched: Good with most applications. No specifics problems yet.
Chip McCormick (Gen 1): Good with most applications, Possible problem with some Tac Sol Uppers.
Chip McCormick (Gen 2): Good with most applications, Possible problem with some Tac Sol Uppers.
CMMG (Single Stage): Should works with all.
CMMG (2 Stage): Should works with all.
CMT: Said to work with all. No specific problems yet.
Daniel Defense DDXV with a notched hammer: Works with CMMG Conversion, should work with other conversions.
Delton: Said to work with all. No specifics problems yet.
DPMS: Works with all.
Geissele SSA: Geissele's High Speed match and SSA triggers. Good Reports. Works with CMMG, Tac Sol, Ciener, TM Conversions.
Geissele DMR: Works with Model 1 Upper. Possible works with Tac Sol Uppers and Spike's. Some report good and some not. Works with CMMG, Ciener, TM.  
Jard: Works with all, One person tested 1.5 lb with Ciener and Spike's with 11 different ammos and had no related failures.
Jewell (Single Stage): No good with CMMG, Ciener. Other unknown, probably won't work.
Jewell (2 Stage): Not good with CMMG, One person reported good luck with a Ciener. Other unknown, probably won't work.
JP (Speed): Works with all. JP triggers are good, but the high speed hammer can cause issues due to the sharp faces.
Knight's FCG: Rounded Hammer, Should work in all applications.
LMT (2 stage notched): Works with CMMG.  
Model 1 Sales: Notched or Un Notched. Should work with all.
Olympic: Rounded version shown in complete lower on Oly's Site works with all.
Next Gen Arms: No inputs yet.
RRA Rounded / Mil Spec: Works with all. RRA sometimes you have to remove one of the hammer spring legs as they are too strong...
RRA (2 Stage): National Match Trigger Kit. Works with some Tac Sol M4's and LT's. One of these broke during use with Spike's (One Person Reported)
RRA (2 Stage): Sporter Trigger Kit (Large Pin Lowers with Block) Works with some Tac Sol M4's and LT's, depends on revision of bolt assy.
Smith and Wesson Un-Notched: Should work in all applications
Spike's: Works with all
Stag Notched: Likely works with all conversions. Possible problem with some revisions of Tactical Solutions Bolt.
Stag Rounded: Work with all.
Timney 3lb / 4lb: said to be good with all. IMO possible problem with 3lb, some Tac Sol Bolts and standard velocity ammo.
Tactical Solutions: Works with all.
Wilson Combat (Single Stage): Should work with all except Tac Sol, Doubles and more with standard velocity ammo. This is possibly a problem to a lesser degree with some other uppers.
Wilson Combat (2 Stage): I suspect the same answer as the Single Stage No proof one way or the other yet.
YHM Notched: Doesn't work with Spike's. Probable problem with others too.

SpecOps-13

Spec......where did you get this info.......Bushmaster: Works with, CMMG, Target Master. Not with Spike's. Ciener is iffy as is Tac Sol Upper. I run a Bushmaster XM15-E2S lower on my Spikes ST22 Lothar......Its flawless, I assume the lower has Bushmaster internals,,,hgammer, trigger pack etc. What issues did you experience with it?

For the record I had a YHM notched that would not work with my Spikes.

The information I have above is from the input of a number of different people right here in the rimfire
forum. It was originally a thread on it's own but has fallen pages back in the index for whatever reason.
I've posted the best information I have at this time, I know there are going to be problems and it will need
to be modified and updated. I will edit the post as new information comes to light. Somebody has to do
this so that eventually we will have a list of hammers that will work. It's a question asked almost daily here
on the forum or in Instant Messages to me. It may end up that some hammers will work with some
conversions and dedicated uppers and not others, even from the same manufacturer. Some day, with
enough input we will have a list that can pretty well spell out what the chances of success with a specific
combination will be. Please IM me with any information you have to add or correct the list of hammers,
trigger packs above. I don't have the money to buy each possible combination to try them myself. So,
everyone, please assist me.

Thank You for your input. I will add your results to the others I have and average them in the list above, here
on page 11 of this sticky thread.

Dave /Spec

Is anybody running a Spikes .22lr upper using a RRA lower with the 2-stage match trigger that's notched?  I'd really hate to have to buy a whole new trigger group to be able to shoot .22's.

I use the blue 22 dummy rounds to check cycling. I think you can get them in a 10 pack.
Then pull the trigger on one to see how deep the impression is. Best, safest check you
can do. You'll have an answer. A RRA 2 Stage did brake on Shadowcop's 22. JFYI.

Dave

I've got a Stag LPK in my S&W lower- notched hammer.  I've got a stainless CMMG kit inbound, so I'll give you input on how it fairs.  

I've been combing through this thread for a week or so now trying to figure out which ammo to first try.  My upper is a BCM 16" middy (1/7 twist) so I see it might be interesting, haha.

Should I just start out with Federal Bulk? Do you get what you pay for with .22LR ammo? I ask because I found a 500rd Federal American Eagle for $20.  Thanks guys!

Federal Ammo is fine to start with. It has some inconsistencies but it's pretty good plinking ammo.
Winchester 333 and 555 are excellent for a more consistent ammo. Then comes CCI Mini Mags,
Standard Velocity and Green Tag is the absolute most accurate ammo I've SHOT.

Good Luck,
Dave


PS: Got Questions, IM me if you are having trouble finding an answer. If my IM Box overflows, E-Mail me.

Stag LPK (notched) is good to go.  Not a single FTF in 300 rounds (Federal Bulk).  Only hiccup I had was a double-fire on either round 3 or 4.

What a great kit!

This is my new upper that Redtazdog has built for me. He machined a GM 10/22 barrel to work with a spikes .22 bolt. Hopefully he doesn't mind me posting his pics here.




taken from: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=499117
I am very happy so far. I can't wait to shoot it. Looks pretty good to me, especially considering he shot it after two cups of coffee.

Wow! That looks great and those are some kind of groups. Please post a range report.

Tom

I will hopefully be able to as soon as I get it back. Redtazdog said he will ship it tuesday, so should be soon.

I did some mods to my ST-22 with Lothar Walther barrel (heavy profile, 1" under the handguards). I did the mods so I will be able to shoot standard velocity and sub-sonic ammo without any FTEs (failures to eject). First of all, I don't have any problems with high velocity ammo. I can go through 200+ rounds with no FTEs. The only problems I had was shooting standard velocity ammo...especially Lapua 40gr SK Standard Plus which is the most accurate out of my ST-22. That waxed ammo chokes up my ST-22 in regards to FTEs. I would get about 3 to 6 FTEs in each 15rd mag.

On my range session (July 4th), I shot a total of 325 rounds of assorted ammo.
* 125 rounds 40gr Lapua SK Standard Plus (The waxy stuff)
* 55 rounds of CCI Standard Velocity 40gr.
* 45 rounds of Aguila 40gr Sub Sonic.
* 50 rounds of Aguila 38gr Sub Sonic hollow points
* 50 rounds Aguila Super Extra 38gr.

Out of the 125 rounds of Lapua SK Standard Plus, I only had 3 FTEs. With the CCI Standard Velocity, I only 1 FTE. All other ammo was problem free...even the subsonics.



Here are the mods I did.
I bought an extra DPMS hammer (just in case I screwed it up) from PK Firearms and cut the back tail off to reduce weight. I then grinded down and painted just the back side of the hammer.




I also installed some new JP Enterprise 3.5 pound Light Hammer, Trigger, Disconnector Springs. With the light hammer spring and the extra mass of the hammer cut off, I get no light primer strikes.
The light hammer spring also helps the bolt move towards the rear with less resistance.


And a few pics of my ST-22.


5 round group at 50 yards with Lapua SK Standard Plus 40gr.

Great group and a very nice rifle Islandboy. It sounds like your modifications pretty well fixed your problems with the standard and sub-sonics.

Thanks. It really did solve the reliability issues I was having-especially with Lapua SK Standard Plus. Before the mods, I would have an FTE stove pipe every 3 to 4 shots fired. Now, I only had 3 FTEs out of 125 rounds fired which was towards the end. With high velocity ammo, it runs about 100%.

Hello,

I am a proud new owner of a Spikes Tactical M4 with a Walter Lother barrel. I took it to the range as soon as I received it and shoot these groups, not really supported as I wasn’t going for the tightest groups, and it’s at 25 metres outdoor, in very windy conditions.

Got to say that I had a lot of failure to feeds and a few failure to fires. As the rifle is brand new, I think that this is to be expected. After about 200 rounds it got better, but it still doesn’t really like CCI Minimag, I’m hoping that it will after a few more rounds as I bough 500 of them.

Ammo used

CCI Mini Mag

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/happyal27/f44b13bf.jpg

Like I said quite a few failure to feeds, and a few light strikes. Got better as more rounds where fired. I’m hoping that this ammo will be fine

Wincester Laser hollow point

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/happyal27/c0afa20d.jpg

Fired 100 rounds without any real issues

Geco

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/happyal27/b7a27be6.jpg

Again fired 100 rounds without any issues

Also used was Federal Champion and Eley Match ammo, both worked without any problems.

Rifle

Rifle is a Spikes Tactical M4 with a Walter Lother barrel. It’s fitted with a Eotech site and a magnifier.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/happyal27/b56e01c0.jpg

Really happy with the rifle, and sights I’m using, everything looks good and seems to be working well. Still only fired appox 500 rounds in total so it needs more breaking in.

Results

I wasn’t trying to get great groupings as I was setting up everything and just trying to get rounds down the barrel, I’m quite impressed with how good the grouping turned out at my first attempt. There a quite a few flyers, which I think is me being too quick.

First target is with CCI Minimag, 100 rounds in total.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/happyal27/75352143.jpg

There are 3 groups on this target, ignore the one in the bottom right, as I was messing with my sights.
The group just above and to the left is the initial group, then I reset my sights and got the group more into the middle.


Next target was shot with Geco ammo, 50 rounds in total

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/happyal27/e1044662.jpg

Still need to properly zero the sights, but I was having great fun at this point.


That’s it for now, I’m loving the rifle and am very much looking forward to getting back to the range to use it again. I’ve still got work to do with the setup and zeroing, it’s good fun doing it.

Nice rifle and it looks like it is shooting well for you. From what I've heard from others with the LW barrel, you will be really pleased with your groups when you get a chance to shoot from the bench under good conditions.

It should run great with the CCI Mini Mags. Give it a good cleaning and go for it. I like the setup
of an EOTech and Magnifier. I have a 7.62 x 39 AR setup like that.

Good Luck and Happy Shooting
Dave / SpecOps-13

Took my amazing little S&W M&P AR 22 to the range with my brother-in-laws, nephew and son.....We had all kinds of other weapons with us, but this little honey got the most action. Even had other guys trying it out...I have a Bushnell Tactical non-magnifying scope on it (looks like an ACOG) and that works great. Never a hiccup with Federal blue box bulk ammo.

Reposted from a standard thread 7/26/2010


Wow, This has been a long day... I was up, looking at the forums for a while. It really got started about
10:05 AM when the door bell rang and it was the UPS Lady. It was a new Sierra Upper from CMMG.
It has an optional Stainless Steel Bolt that's really sweet. An optional item that may not be released to
everyone yet, Forward Assist. It came with 3 CMMG Magazines that fit really tight like you want them too.
Everything that came looked Very Fine....  BTW, Nice Packing Job CMMG..... Saved from UPS....



I wanted to have some basis for comparison so I stole the scope off my old ST-22 that I built as my first
Dedicated AR-22. I felt that the 2 uppers should be similar in capabilities.

I've got so many things going on that I did some re prioritizing so I could make it to the range. I had a sandwich
on the fly before I left home and I'm eating an Egg Sandwich my Wife was nice enough to fix for me now.

All total, I fired 200 rounds including sight in for the scope. No failures to fire. 4 cases got stuck in the charging
handle, Pretty normal with all uppers. 3 times the forward assist stuck and held the bolt back. It didn't come
forward and strip a round it just stayed back. I was real careful the first couple times trying to find the cause.
The last time it happened I pushed on the forward assist and the whole assembly went into battery normally.
This may clear up when I have some more rounds through the upper.

Special Note: This uppers case deflector made easy work when it came to cleaning up brass. It kicked most
of the cases forward of the line. Not My Job......

There are new innovations all over on this upper and more to come in the near future. I think they all will help with
accuracy and function... JMHO...

As for the Range Report, Sweet and Simple....
For the Federal Bulk Ammo, I posted the best and worse targets, For the Winchester Wildcat and CCI Mini Mags
I posted the 2 best targets from each set I shot. None were worse than the biggest group shown, using Federal Bulk..



Added 8/22/2010: 2nd Range Trip, Different ammo but I did run Federal Bulk again too..

I had a lot of FTF's with the Federal Bulk, All ammo related, bad lot. I hit one round so many
times in different places it looked like it was cut with Crinkle Scissors. No Bang. The groups
were nothing to write home about as can be seen in the upper left of the picture. They
were bigger than a quarter.

I moved on to Federal Lightning and things got better. Top center on the picture. The group
size basically stayed the same for the rest of the ammo, Eley Match, Wolf Match Target and
Fiocchi Super Match. All could be pretty well covered by the dime.

As long as I was using good ammo, the rifle was flawless.

Dave



Well, the Winchester wasn't anything to get excited over. It actually grouped about like the Federal Bulk.
The best / worst groups and the lane / 250 round target I was shooting are shown in the picture below. I
rest the rifle on the towel to shoot.

I was really hoping to do better with the Wunchester ammo.

This rifle actually groups pretty well with a better grade of ammo... Bulk for plinking....
Dave

I just purchased a Tac Sol uppper last week.  I haven't had a chance to shoot it.  What is the consensus as far as dry firing these dedicated uppers?  I haven't found anything about it reading through the information.

Thanks.

Some may be dry fired, others it will damage the firing pin and the chamber.
I don't think TacSol is one that can be dry fired.

Dave

Clarence : Just read your post & thought I would copy in a post I did a while back, when having problems with my CMMg conversion....stopped the trouble..."G"

Gatguns08 Member
Joined: Dec 2008
LA, USA   Posts: 8
* - Feedback Soon!
Posted: 2/2/2010 5:19:13 PM CDT[Last Edit: 3/16/2010 10:05:33 AM CDT by Gatguns08]
M1A4ME, I too am having problems with BDM mags. Please explain "right side" of mag .....viewed from stock end of weapon or "right side" as viewed from muzzle end of weapon ???..........."G" ( hard to tell from the conversion bolt )

Update 3/16/2010...I polished the feedramp to remove the crosscut tool marks on the CMMG conversion, that solved the occasional failure to feed problems.
Was still having duds...switched fron Remington Gold-Bulk to Federal Auto Target from W-M. All mags working fine, no duds..I am a happy user of the
CMMG conversion now...."G".

Just wanted to post a report on my cmmg .22lr conversion I have had for about 5 months. I had alot of fte at first but after breaking it in and making sure my chamber was clean its been fine. I don't mind a stove pipe but when its stuck under the charging handle its a real pain. I also had the receiver end plate break at the weld but cmmg sent out a replacement part no questions asked. Some of the best customer service ive had to deal with. Here is my best group at 25 yards, pretty good considering its coming from 1:9 twist with me shooting it.
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp306/roachtron/CIMG6950.jpg

Those conversions require buzzing the chamber. Gets the gunk out.
Here's my new M4 LE with range reults:

Those conversions require buzzing the chamber. Gets the gunk out.

Here's my new M4 LE with range reults:
I got to the range today with the CMMG M4 LE .22.
I can honestly say I'm impressed.
700 rounds, not one malfunction with the exception of Remington Subs. They just will not feed.
Keep in mind, this is with a new stock G.I. trigger.
Ammo was:
Federal 550 Bulk 36 gr. HP
Federal Champion 40 gr.
CCI Mini Mag HP
CCI Stinger
Winchester 555 Bulk 36 gr. HP
Kind of windy, 90 degrees, low humidity
Range was 25 yards
UTG 1-4 X scope








2 x 2 post it
Butterfly

I spent some time shooting my Spikes ST22 upper today and had some pretty good results. This was the first time I've really shot it at 50 yards, and with decent ammo.

  Barrel Length Measurement    

Everyone has had their own way of describing the difference in length between a standard AR-15 Barrel
and one that is specifically a dedicated 22. Most of us have adopted 1" to 1.5" as the difference. Here's the
way to get a very accurate idea of the difference and the actual, official length of a barrel.

This comes from CMMGinc: The barrel face is approximately 1.15" further rearward on the dedicated .22 than
a 5.56 barrel. A 16" Barreled 22lr AR will be about an inch shorter in overall length than a 16" barreled 5.56 AR
due to the differences in the bolt face depth of the .22 vs 5.56.

This was added by frog5215: The way it's officially measured is with a rod down the bore to the bolt face (closed,
of course). Close the bolt, drop a rod down, mark, and measure.

Added by me: This measurement is to the end of the barrel excluding any screw on muzzle device.

Spec

So what is the final word on accuracy when shooting a 36 to 40 gr 22RF in a 1:7 barrel? How does it compare w/ a 1:8 barrel?

Reserved

wulkyrie: Your best bet is to use Aguila SSS with 60 grain bullets.
The 36 and 40 grain bullets are too light in general for the faster twist
barrels. You could shoot a blown up balloon reliably at 25 yards but
you would be pressed to shoot reasonable groups better than 3" or 4".

223Rem: That was a nice setup that you were showing.


Link to a thread that shows pictures of various 22 bolt assemblies from different angles.
For comparison of various manufacturers.

Spec

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=511427

Hi,  I’m having problems with a new Spike’s conversion kit (purchased from BDM) on a Bushmaster Upper & lower (with rounded hammer) and would like to know what steps I should take and in what order to try to “tune” these problems out.

I’m using  Federal 550 Bulk with 6 different 10 rd. BDM mags. I know there's a big difference but as a point of some comparison, this combo has worked flawlessly with my Spike’s ST-22 upper on an exactly configured but different Bushmaster lower. What I’m getting are:

1)Light strikes. Happens equally on the first round as well as other times. I can on occasion go a full mag without these but not often. The bottom of the casings show some indentation.

2)Intermittent failures to extract, spent case sometimes gets stuck inside over the new round or gets caught halfway by the bolt going out the ejection port.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions and assistance. I need to get this worked out as soon as I can so I’ll need to post this problem in a couple of more threads.

John

Hi,  I’m having problems with a new Spike’s conversion kit (purchased from BDM) on a Bushmaster Upper & lower (with rounded hammer) and would like to know what steps I should take and in what order to try to “tune” these problems out.

I’m using Federal 550 Bulk with 6 different 10 rd. BDM mags. I know there's a big difference but as a point of some comparison, this combo has worked flawlessly with my Spike’s ST-22 upper on an exactly configured but different Bushmaster lower. What I’m getting are:

1)Light strikes. Happens equally on the first round as well as other times. I can on occasion go a full mag without these but not often. The bottom of the casings show some indentation.

2)Intermittent failures to extract, spent case sometimes gets stuck inside over the new round or gets caught halfway by the bolt going out the ejection port.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions and assistance. I need to get this worked out as soon as I can so I’ll need to post this problem in a couple of more threads.

John

This is a link to the Spike's Industry Forum. There are several threads that may be of help.
They're located near the top of the index, possible some are further back in their index too.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=2&f=282

This following post is about the 16" Clint Beyer, M4 Profile Barrel, using the Target Master Bolt.

Click the link below the picture to go to the AR15 Conversions Industry Section. I built a rifle
the best I could from the inputs of other members here at ARFCOM. I called it the Ultimate
Upper because it was basically designed here by those who should know. Turns out to be the
most accurate upper I've ever shot....







This link has been lost with AR15 Conversions leaving the site.The above targets show the accuracy of this combination..http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=393&t=195671

Dave / SpecOps-13

I did a search here for the Nordic Components NC22  ar upper and got no results.  Does anyone have one or have any info?  There is a  review in American Rifleman. It sounds nice. I checked their website and  they have a bull barrel model like what I have been looking for, but would prefer more info.  Thanks,Randy

I have one with a 20" stainless bull barrel - like it a lot.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=503478

Thanks for the link.  Do not kow why it did not come up on my search.  Sounds like exactly what I have been looking for.  I am interested in the 20"  bull barrel  like you have.

rls535: Sent you an Instant Message with a link to Nordic Components Industry Section yesterday morning but
I see you haven't read it yet. If you haven't set up to receive IM's yet, it's a very useful site tool. Good Luck with
your NC Bull Barrel'd Upper.

Thanks for the back up rman43

Dave

I've been saying that I would try to do some serious bench rest shooting with my Nordic Components dedicated upper. I finally took a day off and spent most of it at the range. I wish I would have put this on my RRA or Spikes lower instead of the DPMS. The RRA and Spikes have RRA NM triggers instead of the Geissele SSA and have much lighter trigger pulls. I would like to say that I was able to shoot a lot of bragging-sized groups, but unfortunately aging eyes, nerves, etc. are working against me. I was able to shoot some pretty fair groups and I'm sure a good benchrest shooter would be able to do this upper justice. I think about all of my flyers can be attributed to the shooter.

The Rifle:
DPMS lower with Geissele SSA trigger
Nordic Components upper with 20" stainless steel bull barrel
Centerpoint 4-16x scope

The Targets:
Target spots are slightly under 1" in diamer
All groups fired at 25 yards indoors
All groups are 5 shots