I am looking to get my first rifle.  I've been searching for about a month and while I don't know much I have some idea of what I do and don't want. I'm getting ready to buy, any day really, as soon as I find the right one. I am having some trouble.

First off my natural inclination would be to buy used. Since these guns are so popular there are a lot on the market. But the prices are about the same as if I were buying new?  Why is this?  Why would I buy a used gun for new pricing?  They never come with any of the goodies either. If the picture shows a nice scope, the description always says it doesn't come with scope.  I like the Daniel defense uppers, so someone has one used for $700, and when you type in ddm4v7 it's priced new at $750. That's just one example. They're all like that.  I think some are trying to be sold for more than the online sale prices.  

Ok so I have two options. New complete rifle or complete upper an lower.  I'm not ready for my first rifle to completely assemble one, even though I would like to soon. I want to get out to the range ASAP and start target shooting.   What I like or think I want is pretty simple:

Free float barrel
Key mod or picatinny hand guard
Match trigger
Good optics
Best for mid to long range target shooting, but light enough to be an all purpose gun.
Collapsible stock

I'm somewhat flexible on price. I'm split on whether to spend too much on something new that I could buy the wrong one, since I have never shot one, and spending more to get the right rifle the first time and not have to buy and sell multiples to get what I want.

Any recommendations?  I like the bcm uppers. I think they used to have the DD rail and are switching to their own key mod rail.  But their site has them all pretty sold out.  From what I've read I should go for a 18-20" barrel for better precision at the expense of higher weight and less maneuverable.  

Is it cheaper to buy one off the shelf or order the two halves?

Don't know where you are seeing a new ddm4v7 for 750.00 because they are about 1560.00 on DD website.

As for the prices of used rifles....many people believe their rifle is worth their asking price for various reasons.  If they built it then they want to usually get what they put into it but the reality is the sum of the parts does not equal the whole.  Just like many other products besides firearms.

Don't do all purpose.

When I built my first AR I tried to make it a be all, do all rifle.  It was a miserable failure.
 
Buy or build your AR to do one thing and one thing only.

I suggest you get your telestock and put a Giselle trigger in it.
Then buy/build uppers only.  One upper for HD and blasting.  Another upper for mid to long range and so on.  

He is talking just the upper BCM has them for $750/

This is good advice you can't have a do all rifle, this is why many of us own more than one. You could probably have a do all lower and then buy or build uppers for various purposes. As far as price differences their is a huge supply of parts right now and demand is average so manufacturers are selling at bargain basement prices and sellers paid more so they are trying to recoup their money.

Ok, as long as it isn't just me. If I bought a  $2000 bike and put $5000 of fancy carbon parts on it it doesn't sell for $7000. It maybe sells for $3000. But I'm seriously seeing people with their used guns breaking down the cost of what they put into it and asking that. If I wanted the parts you put on I would order them myself.  I want your gun used because I can get those parts you had to spend money on for significantly less than you paid.

So I'm buying new.  What isa good budget together what I want.  $1200-1500 rifle, $500 optics?

I fully agree. Choosing an AR is like choosing a tool. Tools are made for specific purposes. ARs are very much the same. You can have one for CQB, one for short to mid-range engagements (out to around 300M or so), one for long range (out to around 1000M), and one for extreme long range (1000M +).  To me, a "general purpose" AR is one that is going to have a barrel length of 14.5" to 16", carbine or mid-length gas system, free-floating handguard, carbine stock, and a re dot optic with a flip-type magnifier or a 1-4x24 (or 1-6x24) scope. You can use this weapon system for anything from CQB to engaging targets out to around 300M-500M. I have a wide assortment of ARs that allow me to pick and choose the proper one for the job.

Do you own 27 ARs, and drive a '93 Accord?? Lol

I no longer own 27 ARs. That picture was taken about a month ago. I now have 29 ARs. I did drive a Honda Accord back when I joined this forum in 2005. I sold it in 2005 and I now drive a modified MINI COOPER S.

Then


Now

My recomendation is go to a shop/ range, plop down some cash for some extended range time & rental then shoot each one they have for at least a few mags each. Or go with someone that has a few for you to try also. This will give you a much better idea of what you like & don't like to shoot.

As far as new vs used, there is a big difference between "asking" for a given price & "getting" a given price. Someone can list all the stuff put into a gun & say it is worth $xxxx, but at the end of the day it is worth what someone is willing to pay you for it. Used can be a good way to get a crap, decent, good or great rifle at crap, decent good or great prices. A certain level of knowledge is required to know the difference. You certainly don't want to fork out a bunch of $$$$ for a rifle that looks the part but has a worn out barrel, walked FCG pins & or bad BCG or other worn out parts that you end up just replacing shortly after purchase.

So far your list is a good one but there is a lot more to the rifle than those few components.

Gain some experience by shooting some different models & go from there.

I don't think there is anywhere local that rents them. There is a pistol range that let's you bring them and rents handguns and a really good outdoor gun club but they don't rent.

I think I am leaning towards the all purpose, mid range to 300 yards or so rifle. I probably need a lot of practice until I get good enough to shoot further anyways and by that time could get a dedicated long distance rifle.

Any recommendations on off the shelf vs. putting together a separate upper and lower?

So you are saying a total budget of $1700-2000?

A $500 optic is right up there. A vortex PST would be in that range... good glass for under $500.

For the remaining $1200-1500, you want to plan on about 200-300 in ammo & mags. A variety of ammo is a good idea to see what it likes. That leaves you with $900-1200 for the rifle, MBUS sights, case & any other sort of accessories you may want that don't come with the rifle.

For that you can build a number of options.

If you want to build a rifle with a complete lower & upper you can do it for anywhere from $550-1,000, & on up, depending on what you choose.

If you haven't already read these stickies, I recommend you do so.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/605350_Important_Threads__Check_Here_First.html

This is exactly what I'm saying minus the ammo. Ammo is not included in budget. I will look at those stickies now and see which I have and have not read. Thanks.

This

With your budget, you can build a really nice AR. The build I have pictured below has about $1900 invested into it, including the optic (Aimpoint PRO). The barrel is a BCM Standard 14.5" CL 1/7 Mid Length with a pinned and welded muzzle device. I am running an AIM NiB BCG in conjunction with a standard buffer. FCG is the ALG ACT. Receivers are billet from TGD Firearms (made by New Frontier Armory). 12" handguard is a MI SSG2. It also features MAGPUL MBUS Gen 2 sights, Seekins Precision magazine release button and bolt release, BCM buffer tube assembly, B5 Systems SOPMOD stock and pistol grip, and a BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle. For target engagement out to 300M-500M, I would recommend a 1-4x24 or 1-6x24 scope.





This setup is sufficient for 300M depending on one's eyesight. With a magnified optic, even further. Anyhow, this should give you some ideas. BTW, the MI SSG2 handguard comes with a sling stud that could also allow for the use of a bipod should you even want to use one. Additionally, this is a fairly lightweight build coming in at 8.5 lbs. loaded (30 rounds).

L

Nice build JR...

I aspire to reach your level of BRD bodacity!

Definitely a good looking rifle.

Recently ( few months ago ) bought a new rife off the shelf.

I figured I would shoot the hell out of it in short order and repair/upgrade what it told me to repair/upgrade.

A few thousand rounds later and it has not so much as had a hiccup.

Your AR will tell you what to repair/upgrade when it is time.

I would not but a used AR because there are too many wannabe gunsmiths doing god knows what to their AR's and when they get in too deep they sell off their trials and errors.

Oops !!!!

Deleted by me!

Ok I think I found what I want. How does one of these fit the bill?

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/SPR-Mk-12-Upper-Receiver-Half-Groups-s/131.htm

https://danieldefense.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Ddm4v5

This DD is on sale. I'm not sure exactly about the differences between version. Ill go play on their gun builder later today.

Expensive though. If anyone knows a cheaper place....
Add any complete lower for around $300 and that would be a good rifle.

I'm told if I order online I have to call a local gun store and have it shipped to them?  That seems rude. Normally it's frowned upon by brick and mortal stores to order online and in this case they help you do it?  Is it better to pick a big chain place like Cabelas or a small mom and pop?

Of these two, the Daniel Defense is a more feasible option. The Mk12s are too heavy to be a general purpose weapon. The DDM4s are great GP weapons.

To order on-line, you will have to provide the seller with the dealer's FFL. This can be done by the dealer sending the seller the copy of the FFL themselves, or the dealer providing you with a copy to forward to the seller. The AR will be shipped to the FFL dealer and the dealer will, in turn, transfer the AR over to you. You will be required to fill out the ATF Form 4473 at the dealer.

Another upper option... http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-stealth-sniper-system-lt011

Here's what I'd do, find an upper in 5.56 you like and buy it shipped to your house.  Preferably in 1/7 or 1/8 twist.  Find a LGS with lowers, walk in and buy one (or stripped + parts kit for them to assemble).  Put the two together and you're GTG.

A general purpose AR?  14.5-16in barrel.  No-Low magnification optic for 1-200 yards.

That Larue looks great.

I think I'm going to go with the plan where I buy the lower locally in store. What should a good complete lower with about a $60 stock cost?  I have seen them for around $350.

I'm not sure how much gun stores charge to import a lower from online for me but I would bet its high. Making it not worth it to do.

There's also gun shows all the time. Are they shady or a good place to pick up cool gear?  I just read about Chinese knockoff magpul sight being sold at shows so I don't know...

Not sure what impresses me more... 29 ARs or that you made that mini look bad ass! You sir, are winning.

Thank you. I am very proud of my MINI. It has already been in two publications.

LaRue seems to be shipping with a stock and handgrip, too.  Higher end so a bit pricier but with the options they provide you're getting what you want out of the box in terms of barrel/handguard length.  

Transfer fees not high at all (usually) for the FFL to do the lower if you want a specific one online, my guess would be about $20-35 from what I have typically encountered.  If there is a LGS stocking lowers it's highly unlikely they don't have one worth buying unless you're looking for something specific (typically cosmetic).  Stripped lowers are pretty close in price, $100-200 depending on forged/billet.  

Assuming $1200 for a LaRue upper inc. stock and handgrip, you're looking at another $120-150ish for a stripped lower and $120-200+ in lower parts depending mostly what you do for trigger.  Lots of uppers out there though with what you're looking for which could cut $500 off to bring you around 1k vs 1.5k.

The LGS could put together your lower in a few minutes if you get a stripped one.

I have narrowed it own to these three.

Used Stag 3tl - $885, seems over priced since it is only $1020 retail, but it's the only left handed one I have touched

I like several by DPMS, best of all the 3g2, $1150.  Comes with a two-stage trigger, not the best, but at least would save me from having to upgrade that too soon.

Spikes lower, BCM upper with DD rail $1200, something if I had the patience, I could order myself offline for $1000, but who knows when these things ship and show up.

Any advice on what is best of these choices?

A forged lower is a forged lower. Mil-spec of coarse.  Stripped lowers can be had on dam near every site for under $100 shipped to your FFL.  Realisticly one can buy a complete lower for under $250 shipped.  Find an upper that strikes your fancy and ship it to your house.  Many LGS  have stripped lowers in-stock and do transfers of lowers on a regular basis, For around $20 or so Don't sweat that one. Its kind of a reminder that they are not the only place to purchase lowers and parts and force them to be more competitive on their pricings. But do your shopping around both On-line and LGS.

My build for a general purpose gun with your budget  would be this upper https://dsgarms.com/dsgu-556-16-mcsr15-agb-a2

http://www.surplusammo.com/saa-sa-15-reticle-logo-ar15-complete-lower-with-collapsing-stock/.


Or realistically any complete lower  however you want dressed up shipped to your ffl n transferred for probably $30.a set of mbus or mbus pros if you've got the money , but you'll rarely use back up sights, and an ms4 sling.

And the crown jewel, an acog of your choice.