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Posted: 3/21/2016 3:37:49 AM EDT
About
The Freedom Ordnance FM-9 is a belt-fed, blowback-operated, 9mm upper featuring a quick change barrel that is easy to change. It will work with your mil-spec AR-15 lower, and other than the ejector block (which is inserted in your magwell), installs like any other upper via the takedown and pivot pins. It supports select fire, so if you have an M-16 lower, this is a must have. It is far cheaper, quieter, and more fun to shoot than 5.56. What's Included The FM-9 is packed in a large custom made box with custom foam insert that accommodates all of the included parts and even a spare barrel. The main components consist of: UPPER : The upper is the main piece and consists of several sub assemblies. These include the receiver, the top cover, the feed chute, the barrel block, handguard, and barrel. EJECTOR BLOCK : The ejector block serves two purposes. It is required because it has the ejector that is necessary for the operation of the action. This is a fixed piece that sticks up from the block. When the brass comes back during recoil, it strikes this piece and is ejected. Since you already have the big block to hold the ejector in your magwell, they've built a belt bag adaptor into the bottom of it. This holds the bag securely via a ball-detent. BELT BAG : The belt bag is designed to hold your belted ammunition securely and keep it out of the dirt. You could think of this as your "magazine", and it holds 150 rounds of belted ammo. Links are included as this is how the upper is fed. Individual rounds must be linked together in order to feed through the upper. I definitely recommend ordering extras; I believe the price is something like $60/1000. While they are designed to be reusable, they do have a limited life and at some point will have to get replaced. Chances are you will lose them well before that time, as they have a tendency to disappear into the ground when fired. If you want to try to recover these, the easiest thing to do is to lay a tarp out next to where you're going to be shooting to be able to find them. Options There are 3 barrel options available, 6", 11", and 16.5". The 6" uses a short handguard, and the 11" and 16.5" use the longer handguard. Operation is the same regardless of which barrel length you choose. What is a bit more involved is how the handguards are swapped out. Since we went through it, lets go over the process as it will help show some of the other components involved. Changing out Handguards To change out the handguards (required if going from 11 or 16.5" to 6" or vice versa), you need to remove 8 allen screws that hold the handguard to the receiver. Between the handguard and the receiver is the barrel block, which is the piece that holds and releases the barrel. This block is sandwiched between the handguard and the receiver, and the screws that hold the handguard on also hold the block in place. There are 8 screws (5 long and 3 short) as well as several alignment pins between the barrel and the block, as well as between the block and the receiver. It gets a little complicated, so let's look at some photos to illustrate: Obviously keeping track of where the screws go is important, but I don't think it would be possible to assemble it wrong. Long screws won't go into the short holes, and short screws won't reach the threads in the long holes. Basic Operation Assembly In order to use the FM-9 upper, you must first insert the ejector block in the magwell from above. It will lock in place using the mag-catch. Orientation will be obvious, as there is a slot for the magazine catch to engage the ejector block. You need to depress the button in order for it to lower and catch in place. It will not go all the way through, and cannot be inserted up from the magwell. Once the block is in place, attach the upper to the lower as you would any other upper- first engage the pivot pin, then close the upper and engage the takedown pin. Linking Ammunition has to be linked by hand or via a linker which I do not have yet. Linkers are starting to show up, and I will definitely pick one up soon. Linking the ammo by hand is not a lot of fun, especially using new links. It will be rough on the hands particularly if you try to do several hundred at a time. These are newly designed disintegrating links similar to the ones used by the M-60, M-249, M-240. Each round is inserted bullet first through it's own link, the single arm of the next link, and back through the second arm of it's link. The tail of the link will snap into the rim of the cartridge when it is properly seated, and belted ammunition should pivot freely between links when assembled correctly. The included bag will hold 150 rounds, and can be easily loaded by opening the zipper, feeding 2 or 3 rounds of your belt through the top, and stacking the remaining belt inside the bag in rows of 12/13 per. Close the zipper, and button it closed to prevent the bag opening on its own. Keep in mind use of the bag is optional; you can use a free belt particularly if you are loading a belt with more than 150 rounds that will not fit in the bag. Also, the links are designed to be reusable, but they do have a limited life. This will vary by individual use, ammo, etc but if the links are not holding the ammo as described above, discard and replace. Typical life is described as 3-6 uses, and additional links are readily available so it doesn't make sense to take any chances. UPDATE FROM MANUFACTURER: links will last for 10+ uses the 2 times for white box was old information but the heat treat on the links has been perfected since December time frame. Loading Loading is performed with a closed cover, but it is important that the top cover be closed when the bolt is locked back. So the proper sequence of events is to open the top cover, lock the bolt to the rear and return the charging handle forward, then close the top cover. This is important because the bolt carrier has to engage in the channel on the top cover that feeds the belt, and it can only do this when the top cover is closed with the bolt to the rear. (see pic below) Attach the loaded bag to the bottom of the ejector block (protruding from the bottom of your magwell) via the ball detent if you are using it. Feed the start of the belt into the feed chute on the left side of the upper, until you can feel it seat against the cartridge stop and lock on the belt retaining prawl. You can push the belt through the cutout in the feed chute. When the belt is secured and locked in place properly, it will stay and cannot accidentally fall out. It takes a little getting used to the feel to know when it is secured. Now let the bolt carrier slam forward via the bolt release, or pull the charging handle back and let it release, and a round will be loaded into the chamber. At this point you are loaded and ready to fire. Maintenance Bolt Carrier The bolt carrier has a roller on top which activates the feed of the top cover. This should be clean and smooth and rotate freely. If the upper is fired without closing the cover correctly, you can damage the cover and this roller, so inspect both for any obvious signs of wear. Inside the carrier is a two part firing pin, firing pin spring, and firing pin retainer. these parts get dirty easily, and their simple removal makes sense as part of a regular cleaning and inspection. The carrier also holds the extractor, but I did not disassemble this as I did not feel it was necessary for the cleaning I performed. My manual describes a bolt carrier weight, to tune between light and hot loads, but mine did not come with a weight, nor have I found the need for one. It is likely they changed this design, or that it is only provided if a user encounters problems with ammo. I can see excessively hot loads benefitting from a heavier carrier, but you can probably compensate with your lower buffer/spring just as easily. UPDATE FROM MANUFACTURER:The bolt weight is still included; I got the 6" version and I was not going to need it. Barrel Block I found that the dirtiest part was the barrel block (i.e. around the chamber area) which is to be expected. Since this is not easily accessible without disassembly, I'll probably take the handguard/barrel block off periodically for cleaning. Lubrication Like any other AR, the FM-9 should be lightly lubricated, not have oil squirted into it. All of that carbon and powder combines with excess oil to form a thick paste which will eventually harden and will cause stoppages and a big mess to clean up. Lubricate your parts like you would any AR, so they're protected but wipe off any excess. Summary Overall, the FM-9 is very well designed and built and has run smoothly and reliably. The only issue we've encountered is the last round for whatever reason never loads, so a last round is left on link in feed tray. I suspect this may be ammo related, but further testing will be needed to confirm. Everyone that sees it asks about it, so it is definitely going to attract attention. That said, it is probably one of the most fun guns to shoot, especially the 6" suppressed. Very little recoil, quiet, fairly inexpensive to feed, allows you to link as long of a belt as your fingers will stand. We'll continue to run this unit, including a variety of ammo as well as in the field. Look for video updates in this thread when they are available. Excessive rain and flooding prevented us from shooting video at the range recently, so we'll do that shortly. MSRP is $2495, but are available now (for a limited time?) for $1895. Freedom Ordnance : http://freedomordnance.com And a few miscellaneous photos: FM-9 fitted with an IR Defense REAP-IR FM-9 6" FM-9 11" FM-9 16.5" Short overview video |
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What the hell?
This is certainly unique. But only 150rd belts? Boo! Need 1000! I've got thousands of 9mm and i never shoot it. Would be cooler in 357sig. Man, that would tear some stuff up. Price is a bit high, but still cool as hell. I wonder if it could work on a QC10 lower, and still use mags? Probably not, but a neat thought. |
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What the hell? This is certainly unique. But only 150rd belts? Boo! Need 1000! I've got thousands of 9mm and i never shoot it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
What the hell? This is certainly unique. But only 150rd belts? Boo! Need 1000! I've got thousands of 9mm and i never shoot it. To be clear, 150rd belts is just what fits in the included bag- there's nothing stopping you from linking up 1000rds or more on a single belt and having an AG help you feed as the belt would be heavy. Would be cooler in 357sig. Man, that would tear some stuff up.
Price is a bit high, but still cool as hell. I wonder if it could work on a QC10 lower, and still use mags? Probably not, but a neat thought. A dual-feed or alternate-feed system, such as on the M249 that blocks the magwell when the belt is in place, and blocks the beltway when the mag is in place would add complexity to the already complex (and as you mentioned, pricey) belt-feed system. The FM-9 is elegant in its simplicity. I suspect other calibers (.45 ACP, .380, 40S&W, 357SIG) could be possible, but 9mm is IMHO a far a larger audience than all those combined. Regardless, I'm sure that will only happen when the 9mm really takes off, and everyone buys one; then the profits could be used to retool for the next caliber. I would order yours now and invite you to post the video of the 1000rd belts here. Remember to change barrels between long strings! |
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It's cool no doubt about that. Not $2k cool. I was sold up until that point
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It's effen yuuuge...
Seriously, it looks like it's been way over engineered. I like the concept, (it's a belt fed conversion, who wouldn't?), but the execution leaves a bit to be desired. |
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That is cool as hell. Been wondering when someone was going to make one for public consumption.
$2k is not overpriced for something like that folks. You have to understand this isn't marketed towards the $399 rifle kit guys. |
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I don't think it's too big, it is the smallest belt fed system that I've ever seen other then a .22. I don't think the price is crazy either, the amount of engineering in this is...a lot. Especially if you compare the amount of money people are putting into uppers these days.
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Looks sweet, glad you finally made it to market. To everyone saying 2K is too steep, how many other belt fed AR upper systems are there? Only the Shrike at 4K. How many of them are 9mm? None.
Good on you for offering up a product to let M16 owners burn through cheap 9mm. If I had an M16 I'd buy one in a heartbeat. |
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I can't afford to drop $2k on it but I think it's worth the asking price. This isn't something you can easily build yourself with off the shelf parts like a regular upper.
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This looks pretty neat. I wonder how long that introductory price lasts.
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NJ states 15 round magazine to be legal but that looks like a bag filled with bullets to me ,they made no mention of how many rounds are allowed in a bag. |
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Looks very nice.
I'd like to see how the belt is unloaded (empty case) and reloaded. |
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May I ask what the purpose of the two part firing pin is? View Quote Asked the same thing, and the answer is: to avoid breakage... "In testing with how long it was they were breaking because of the stress on the center so the two piece design solved that." FreedomOrdnance is in the process of getting set up here, so they'll be available shortly to answer questions directly. |
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What the hell? This is certainly unique. But only 150rd belts? Boo! Need 1000! I've got thousands of 9mm and i never shoot it. View Quote We have a 1000 round belt being shot right here |
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As mentioned I am getting set up on the forum i.e. trying to figure out what all to put up lol.
Any questions can always be emailed to me [email protected] that is always going to be the best way to reach me but this forum will quickly get integrated into my daily routine as this has been my best source of feedback while lurking. |
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I can't afford to drop $2k on it but I think it's worth the asking price. This isn't something you can easily build yourself with off the shelf parts like a regular upper. View Quote Yes with over 100 parts all made by us it does take a bit of time. Maybe one day you can do some burninating with one! |
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I don't like the 249 style carry handle. Looks a bit much. Like little brother wearing big brother clothes, haha!
I still like it. Out of my price range right now. But still really cool. I'd like to see a different handguard. After day dreaming about it, would be pretty cool looking with a 249 style handguard. Just miniature. Ha! The more i think about it, the more i want one. I got a ton of 9mm,and only 2 pistols for it. Been kicking around the idea of a pistol build. It's just a big investment for something that would be just for fun. Maybe I'll find one used and abused down the road. |
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Quoted: We have a 1000 round belt being shot right here View Quote Welcome to ARFCOM. That looks just the ticket for bumpHomeDefense. |
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I don't like the 249 style carry handle. Looks a bit much. Like little brother wearing big brother clothes, haha! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I don't like the 249 style carry handle. Looks a bit much. Like little brother wearing big brother clothes, haha! Just to clarify: that "249 style carry handle" is so you can remove a hot barrel without touching it; since it will be, well, hot. It has nothing to do with carrying the weapon. You can see it in the video and the pics- it's attached to the barrel, not the receiver, so it has a purpose. I still like it. Out of my price range right now. But still really cool. I'd like to see a different handguard. After day dreaming about it, would be pretty cool looking with a 249 style handguard. Just miniature. Ha! I think they were going to do that but thought it would be a "bit much..." The way they did it is very modular and kept costs down; make the various length handguards from one extrusion, and that's the only part that changes, as the barrel block remains separate. It also keeps all of the handguard usable, and that's important on the tiny 6" version. |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5UpAcMR1dI Welcome to ARFCOM. That looks just the ticket for bumpHomeDefense. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: We have a 1000 round belt being shot right here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5UpAcMR1dI Welcome to ARFCOM. That looks just the ticket for bumpHomeDefense. Holy shit! That thing is awesome! If I win the lottery, I'm buying this first. |
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Just to clarify: that "249 style carry handle" is so you can remove a hot barrel without touching it; since it will be, well, hot. It has nothing to do with carrying the weapon. You can see it in the video and the pics- it's attached to the barrel, not the receiver, so it has a purpose. I think they were going to do that but thought it would be a "bit much..." The way they did it is very modular and kept costs down; make the various length handguards from one extrusion, and that's the only part that changes, as the barrel block remains separate. It also keeps all of the handguard usable, and that's important on the tiny 6" version. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I don't like the 249 style carry handle. Looks a bit much. Like little brother wearing big brother clothes, haha! Just to clarify: that "249 style carry handle" is so you can remove a hot barrel without touching it; since it will be, well, hot. It has nothing to do with carrying the weapon. You can see it in the video and the pics- it's attached to the barrel, not the receiver, so it has a purpose. I still like it. Out of my price range right now. But still really cool. I'd like to see a different handguard. After day dreaming about it, would be pretty cool looking with a 249 style handguard. Just miniature. Ha! I think they were going to do that but thought it would be a "bit much..." The way they did it is very modular and kept costs down; make the various length handguards from one extrusion, and that's the only part that changes, as the barrel block remains separate. It also keeps all of the handguard usable, and that's important on the tiny 6" version. Derp. Should've paid more attention. The more i come back to this, the more i want it. |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5UpAcMR1dI Welcome to ARFCOM. That looks just the ticket for bumpHomeDefense. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: We have a 1000 round belt being shot right here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5UpAcMR1dI Welcome to ARFCOM. That looks just the ticket for bumpHomeDefense. My wiener cried with happiness and my wallet cried with agony just watching that video. Your product (and the M16 with which to make it reach its full potential) are out of my league, thanks to the divorce industry. But I want to commend you on making this thing and selling it. Simply awesome. I hope you are successful. |
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NJ states 15 round magazine to be legal but that looks like a bag filled with bullets to me ,they made no mention of how many rounds are allowed in a bag. Do not write a letter and ask FOR GOD SAKE TAKE HIS ADVICE. |
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For anyone looking for a cheaper alternative our newest model is available for exclusive release through CenterfireSystems.com Everything about the system is identical with the exception that is has a tube rail instead of a quad rail and the quick change barrel system has been removed and replaced with a fixed barrel. It can however be upgraded to the quad rail and quick change barrel system later (we do not have a price yet on the upgrade) as it still uses the same hole pattern as the trunion for the quick change system.
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Let's talk about the lower receiver.....
Which buffer should be used in conjunction with the beltfed upper?..... I just purchased the upper and it's on it's way and nobody has said this in all the threads I have read. Standard AR buffer weight, or a 9mm heavy weight buffer? |
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Let's talk about the lower receiver..... Which buffer should be used in conjunction with the beltfed upper?..... I just purchased the upper and it's on it's way and nobody has said this in all the threads I have read. Standard AR buffer weight, or a 9mm heavy weight buffer? View Quote Standard carbine bufffer/spring is all you need. There is a bolt weight that comes with it, mainly for hotter ammo if you get trigger slap, but it's rarely needed. Most of the energy is absorbed by the feed mech for the 9mm. |
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Let's talk about the lower receiver..... Which buffer should be used in conjunction with the beltfed upper?..... I just purchased the upper and it's on it's way and nobody has said this in all the threads I have read. Standard AR buffer weight, or a 9mm heavy weight buffer? View Quote And what effect will different buffers have on the cyclic rate. |
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And what effect will different buffers have on the cyclic rate. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Let's talk about the lower receiver..... Which buffer should be used in conjunction with the beltfed upper?..... I just purchased the upper and it's on it's way and nobody has said this in all the threads I have read. Standard AR buffer weight, or a 9mm heavy weight buffer? And what effect will different buffers have on the cyclic rate. It's not about the effects on the cyclic rate. Heavy buffers will cause feeding issues because there isn't enough energy to strip the rounds out of the links. With a standard set up you're looking at roughly between 550-650 cyclic rate |
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I've watched every video of these being used with M16 lowers (and the few with them being bump fired).... how much of a concern is an out of battery event?
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I've watched every video of these being used with M16 lowers (and the few with them being bump fired).... how much of a concern is an out of battery event? View Quote Between R&D and all the test firing we have done on our production units we are in excess of 40,000 rounds fired with not 1 out of battery experience. However we had one customer that experienced a cartridge that didn't completely chamber, he pulled the trigger, and then kept racking the bolt instead of clearing the jam causing a negligent discharge because the hammer was in contact with the firing pin. The odds are extremely low however just like driving a car you assume a certain level of risk. |
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Any issues using this with a Noveske Gen 2/3 lower with the magwell flare?
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Just got the upper delivered, fits my class 3 lower without issues. But linking the ammo is pain in the ass. Is there a tool for sale?
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Just got the upper delivered, fits my class 3 lower without issues. But linking the ammo is pain in the ass. Is there a tool for sale? View Quote No affiliation, but this is the one I've been looking at. http://www.triggerjockey.com/product/9mm-link-loader/ |
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We have not tested a ton of lowers but if everything is milspec internally then external differences shouldn't matter if they have nothing to do with they way the upper and lower sit together. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Any issues using this with a Noveske Gen 2/3 lower with the magwell flare? We have not tested a ton of lowers but if everything is milspec internally then external differences shouldn't matter if they have nothing to do with they way the upper and lower sit together. Thanks. It's the only one I have a stamp for, so far. |
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No affiliation, but this is the one I've been looking at. http://www.triggerjockey.com/product/9mm-link-loader/ View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Just got the upper delivered, fits my class 3 lower without issues. But linking the ammo is pain in the ass. Is there a tool for sale? No affiliation, but this is the one I've been looking at. http://www.triggerjockey.com/product/9mm-link-loader/ We have two of them in the shop they work great |
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Centerfire Systems is selling a $1300 version of this right now. What is the difference between the $2000 version and the cheaper one? It looks like it's just the quick detach barrel system?
Does anyone know if the barrel on the $1300 kit is removable somehow, and/or have any pictures of it removed from the receiver (like, is it just standard 9mm barrel dimensions)? |
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Centerfire Systems is selling a $1300 version of this right now. What is the difference between the $2000 version and the cheaper one? It looks like it's just the quick detach barrel system? Does anyone know if the barrel on the $1300 kit is removable somehow, and/or have any pictures of it removed from the receiver (like, is it just standard 9mm barrel dimensions)? View Quote Nothing on either system is "standard" lol aside from the firing pin spring, cotter pin and extractor sping/cushion. The difference is the quad rail and trunion for the quick change barrel system. The other model is just a tube rail with the barrel pressed in from the back before it gets mounted on the upper. You can change the barrel by removing 8 screws but it would need to use one of our other barrels/tube it won't work with off the shelf ar parts. That being said the design for the tube and barrel is not very complicated for any general machinist if anyone wanted to get a little more custom |
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Need dis. Way to go guys, good product innovation. I will take my free sample now.
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I just received a 6" upper from Centerfire. Superb engineering and mill work!
After linking 150 rds by hand, I'm going to order the Triggerjockey linker |
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I got to try one out over the weekend, very cool. Unfortunately it fired out of battery shortly thereafter, not while I was shooting it, and was pulled from the line.
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