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Posted: 3/19/2023 5:58:51 PM EDT
I pre ordered one of the airsoft single point scopes and it arrived last week, and I could not be more pleased. I purchased it for the mount, figuring I might have to just throw the scope away. However, I could not be more pleased with the quality of the mount AND the scope. The scope works perfectly, and the mount locks up extremely well.
       
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Posted: 3/19/2023 6:23:16 PM EDT
[#1]
I pre-ordered one as well. The quality is indeed good enough that I'm not sure I can tell the difference between the reproduction and original scope from photos alone, which is somewhat concerning for the collector. The mount is frankly probably better than the originals for use.
At least on mine, it is fairly obvious in person however because the scope doesn't actually appear to be collimated. I'm hoping they didn't bother changing the serial numbers. Would you mind sharing what yours is? |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 6:25:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Very cool. It's awesome that the airsoft world is being these retro items to market.
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Posted: 3/19/2023 6:36:38 PM EDT
[#3]
So are you gonna use it on a real rifle? Just curious to see if the scope and mount can handle the recoil of a real rifle.
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Posted: 3/19/2023 6:42:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Where do you get em?
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Posted: 3/19/2023 7:47:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At least on mine, it is fairly obvious in person however because the scope doesn't actually appear to be collimated. I'm hoping they didn't bother changing the serial numbers. Would you mind sharing what yours is? @papermaker81 My scope appears to be as collimated as my real single points. My serial number is partly obstructed by the mounting ring, but it looks like 39859. What is yours? |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 7:50:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So are you gonna use it on a real rifle? Just curious to see if the scope and mount can handle the recoil of a real rifle. Yes, I am going to use it. The mount looks like it will definitely hold up to rifle recoil. Only time will tell how many rounds the scope is good for, but it appears very well made |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 7:56:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Awesome thanks for the Info!! I'm tempted to go buy one now
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Posted: 3/19/2023 7:58:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do you get em? https://shop.jkarmy.com/dna-frds-oeg.html |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 8:27:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @papermaker81 My scope appears to be as collimated as my real single points. My serial number is partly obstructed by the mounting ring, but it looks like 39859. What is yours? @M16indiana Mine is 39887. Mine definitely isn't collimated. It isn't in focus at infinitely and it also has quite a bit of parallax. It almost looks to me like what they did is throw a magnified lens in there instead of the correct collimating aspheric. Could be I got a backwards lens or something I suppose. I also get a lot of reflection off the lens and some haloing. Shining a light into it from the ocular there is definitely something different going on in there optically from a real one. Doesn't surprise me terribly optics aren't like copying something with a pair of calipers. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 9:01:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Interesting...curious to see how this holds up...would look good on my GAU-5A/A clone
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Posted: 3/20/2023 12:51:14 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 3/20/2023 7:29:01 AM EDT
[#12]
Is it a 1" tube such that a real Singlepoint will drop in the mount?
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Posted: 3/22/2023 7:05:08 PM EDT
[#13]
How thick are the straps?
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Posted: 3/22/2023 7:34:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Magazine articles from 1970 and 71
  https://soldiersystems.net/2015/11/19/sof-carbines-comparing-the-son-tay-gau-5aa-and-the-m4a1-cqbr-part-i/ |
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Posted: 3/22/2023 10:55:12 PM EDT
[#15]
That first picture is the world's shortest-barreled over-and-under 12-gauge ever. Did people try and shoot trap/skeet with these back in the day?
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Posted: 3/23/2023 8:06:17 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: That first picture is the world's shortest-barreled over-and-under 12-gauge ever. Did people try and shoot trap/skeet with these back in the day? That's a full length O/U. It's just the perspective of the photo. With the way they work you could actually use a Singlepoint on a shotgun. Singlepoint made a shotgun specific 42moa version. *Anyone with one of the Repro Singlepoints know how thick the bands are?* |
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Posted: 3/24/2023 10:11:32 AM EDT
[#17]
Got my repro singlepoint, shipping was super quick.
Appears pretty well made. Glad to have it for my xm177e2. |
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Posted: 3/27/2023 1:47:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Got mine mounted up.
Definitely got to keep the "dot" centered in the scope or you'll be all over the place. |
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Posted: 3/27/2023 2:59:24 PM EDT
[#19]
I’d love to see a range report on these. I played around with an Armson OEG when I was a kid, and I couldn’t hit well with it at all. The owner, who had it mounted on a nice HK 94, told me that it was meant to be used as a night sight and for high speed Snap shooting. I guess we would call that reflexive firing in today’s parlance. In any event, I was not impressed with the OEG, but I really liked shooting the HK 94 when he removed it and let me use the irons.
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Posted: 3/27/2023 10:56:33 PM EDT
[#20]
I wonder it it's possible to add a vial of tritium to these, so at least it would have low/night visibility.
Anyone got a parts diagram? |
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Posted: 3/27/2023 11:20:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder it it's possible to add a vial of tritium to these, so at least it would have low/night visibility. Anyone got a parts diagram? You want to do this to a Singlepoint copy that isn't even a real gun sight? Real Singlepoints were obsolete decades ago (and some did have tritium). If you buy the cheapest Chinese red dot available it will be a better sight than what you'll end up with. |
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Posted: 3/28/2023 12:30:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You want to do this to a Singlepoint copy that isn't even a real gun sight? Real Singlepoints were obsolete decades ago (and some did have tritium). If you buy the cheapest Chinese red dot available it will be a better sight than what you'll end up with. They don't "market" it as a gun sight because then it would fall under different rules/regulations. Now that doesn't mean it's able to handle abuse, so it may or may not hold up to real gun use. Those of us that bought one will have to test that. You do realize you are in the retro forum, right? Obsolete is our middle name. Of course it would be more useful, but I'm not looking for a modern red dot for my retro. I didn't buy the repro for everyday use, it's to go on my SOG styled 177e2. It would just be cool to have low light/night usability. |
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Posted: 3/29/2023 1:40:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder it it's possible to add a vial of tritium to these, so at least it would have low/night visibility. Anyone got a parts diagram? @GrimesSU would you mind sharing the serial number of your unit? Would be nice to get an idea of the range that was used on these so members can avoid accidently buying one as an original. The tritium would go in a small hole drilled into the base of the fiber optic. So you would have to get the clear dome off first which might be quite a trick without damaging it depending on the type of glue they used. Don't know what the interior tube on these copies looks like but there is some chance you could pull that out all the way from the back as well, but getting it back in again could be a challenge. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 10:34:52 PM EDT
[#24]
I would love to find the patent or a diagram of the design of even a normal Singlepoint, but so far no joy.
The only official documentation of the trit-lit Singlepoint that I'm aware of illustrates a separate green verticle reticule over the normal red fiber optic dot. Considering the size, shape, and colour of it that reticule could be achieved simply by inserting a common green phosphor tritium ampule directly into the reticule plate. If that were the case than accessibility for exchanging the ampule could have possibly been through the windage adjustment, or maybe by separating the adjustment section from the main tube. Seems inconvenient, but for a service needed only every 8 years or so it would be pretty reasonable. There's also that little port on every Singlepoint with the snap ring. Anyone know what that's for? One avenue of approach would be to ask Armson to install tritium in the repro. They offer the service not just to refresh the tritium in their sights that shipped with it but also to add it to ones that didn't originally have it. Their installation uses the tritium to illuminate the fiber optic though, so maybe no dual reticule, if they even agree to work on a faux 'SinglePoint' at all. https://www.armsonusa.com/tritium.html |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 11:31:22 PM EDT
[#25]
I do not know where the tritium employed in the SP231 documented in the FalFiles post is placed in the sight. It seems more difficult to implement.
The snap ring holds the spring that provides resistance to the adjustment screws. In the round nose sights, the tritium is located in the fiber optic. This is immediately apparent when you look at photos of the green nose ones. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 7:08:14 AM EDT
[#26]
M16INDIANA, where did you order yours from? if you don't mind me asking , all the sites I see that have them are in Taiwan and Hong kong, I'm just not trying to get ripped off, I have never dealt with any of the airsoft companies.
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Posted: 3/31/2023 12:39:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Some years ago I contacted Armson re installing tritium in an original green element Singlepoint sight and was advised that they were not willing to do so. As Armson explained to me there would be a possibility of damaging the lense or other parts in the process. The green element like the red element Singlepoints are functional for daylight use. Just my opinion that the early/original Singlepoints would be best to keep them in their original as found condition.
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Posted: 3/31/2023 3:45:20 PM EDT
[#28]
I would bet that Armson won’t be willing to work on toy scopes.
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Posted: 3/31/2023 4:25:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Too bad Armson didn't make a reproduction/retro high quality functional tritium Singlepoint sight and mounts. I might give Armson another call.
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Posted: 4/1/2023 2:01:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some years ago I contacted Armson re installing tritium in an original green element Singlepoint sight and was advised that they were not willing to do so. As Armson explained to me there would be a possibility of damaging the lense or other parts in the process. The green element like the red element Singlepoints are functional for daylight use. Just my opinion that the early/original Singlepoints would be best to keep them in their original as found condition. I used to believe that the yellow/green Singlepoint was the same as the clear red SP, but the clear red ones are marked day, and the yellow/green was marked night which didn't make sense if they were the same. I made several unsuccessful attempts to determine (non-destructively) if the yellow/green SP's had tritium, mostly by trying to measure the residual radioactivity. Unfortunately, the equipment I have access to wasn't sensitive enough to measure the residual radioactivity over background radioactivity. Calculating the residual radioactivity of the tritium shows that a hair over 5% is remaining. (12.33 year half-life at an estimated 53 years) I figured if it had 5% tritium left it would emit radioactivity, which I wasn't able to measure, and light, which I couldn't measure but I could detect. Isolating both a yellow/green and a red Singlepoint in the darkest environment I could find I examined them with a Gen 3 night vision monocular (40K+ gain) and the yellow/green definitely emitted a faint glow leading me to believe that the yellow/green Singlepoints do contain tritium. I'm not willing to open up my remaining yellow/green Singlepoint, so unless someone develops better proof, I'm going with that. I do agree, leave the original Singlepoints original. They are what they are- a historically significant, but rudimentary, red dot sight. If you want a really good red dot, buy an Aimpoint... |
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Posted: 4/1/2023 2:20:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do not know where the tritium employed in the SP231 documented in the FalFiles post is placed in the sight. It seems more difficult to implement. The snap ring holds the spring that provides resistance to the adjustment screws. In the round nose sights, the tritium is located in the fiber optic. This is immediately apparent when you look at photos of the green nose ones. Can you share some photos illustrating this? My red shows no such thing and my green is a cloudy dome. Same with photos popping up in a Google search. I agree that this would be a sensible way to go about it. And I've seen greens called Day/Night sight by a lot of folks, but I've never actually seen any proof. Neither radiation stickers, tritium ampules removed from them, or primary sources. There's also no reason that the trit should be limited to greens, beyond marketing I suppose. |
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Posted: 4/1/2023 4:00:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not willing to open up my remaining yellow/green Singlepoint, so unless someone develops better proof, I'm going with that. Shine an LED flashlight down the eyepiece. If you angle yourself and the light just right you can see the backside of the reticle plate. One of my lenses is cloudy which makes it harder to see. I'm not convinced the single lens is coated or that the magnifier tube is purged. If they installed a tritium ampule in the tube, you should be able to see it. If not, it can only be in the fiber optic. There aren't enough parts in these things to hide it anywhere else. Also, super easy to disassemble (if you're brave enough). If your spring well isn't covered with a rubber grommet, you can simply squeeze the snap ring and, with great vigor the mainspring and retainer plate will remove themselves from the body. Under them is a spring cup that presses against the magnifier tube. It just falls out. You can then take a doubled over length of 100mph tape and press it against the eyepiece. You press that firmly into the palm of your hand and rotate lefty loose. The tape grabs the plastic ring and lets you unscrew it. Under the ring is a rubber cup that sits in place over the tube. The tube itself just pulls out of the back once it's no longer under spring pressure. The tube is a sealed unit but, again, I don't think it's purged. Fiber optic is glued to a cup and glued to the end of the tube. That doesn't come off unless the adhesive has failed. Re-assembly is in reverse order and its a real handful to get the mainspring back in and the snap ring back in place to hold it all together. Did I say it was super easy? I meant "you're taking its life into your own hands" 
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Posted: 4/1/2023 4:16:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Tritium emits beta rays that are so weak they do not penetrate the glass ampules. That's why they are relatively safe!
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Posted: 4/1/2023 5:55:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Anyone shot with it yet?
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Posted: 4/2/2023 12:52:21 PM EDT
[#35]
MASP7 as you noted everything indicates that the green/yellow Singlepoint was the day/night sight with tritium. The availability in the US was short lived and sales were limited to the US military within months. Reading Singlepoints advertising material looks like the green element sights were discontinued by '72. Going to take another look at the dated Singlepoint advertising material re when they only offered the red sight in the UK. I have both red and green Singlepoints, an Armson tritium sight and a 1st series Aimpoint Comp M.
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Posted: 4/2/2023 1:30:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MASP7 as you noted everything indicates that the green/yellow Singlepoint was the day/night sight with tritium. The availability in the US was short lived and sales were limited to the US military within months. Reading Singlepoints advertising material looks like the green element sights were discontinued by '72. Going to take another look at the dated Singlepoint advertising material re when they only offered the red sight in the UK. I have both red and green Singlepoints, an Armson tritium sight and a 1st series Aimpoint Comp M. I've looked for years for documentation that the Singlepoints had tritium, both as a historical reference for Singlepoints themselves and to disprove that the SonTay raider Singlepoints had tritium. The only reference is the aforementioned dual reticle Singlepoint. Of course, analog information can be easily lost to history after 50+ years, especially when it wasn't obviously significant at the time. |
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Posted: 4/2/2023 4:20:54 PM EDT
[#37]
This topic kind of got hijacked, let's get it back to OP and the airsoft reproduction that is available, OP have you taken it to the range yet? Has anyone done any shooting with it yet? I'd like to get one but I am hesitant to buy one from over seas, I don't see any US retailers with them yet.
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Posted: 4/2/2023 5:14:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This topic kind of got hijacked, let's get it back to OP and the airsoft reproduction that is available, OP have you taken it to the range yet? Has anyone done any shooting with it yet? I'd like to get one but I am hesitant to buy one from over seas, I don't see any US retailers with them yet. Like you I'm interested in this but I'm not going to pull the trigger until I see some range reports on it. |
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Posted: 4/2/2023 9:52:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Sadly another week before I get home from Korea and get mine mounted, zeroed, and test fired. Sad to say I’ve been more excited for an “airsoft” scope than most any gun accessory I’ve purchased in years.
Would love to see some range reports before I get home, but if not I’ll post my experiences. |
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Posted: 4/3/2023 2:30:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've looked for years for documentation that the Singlepoints had tritium, both as a historical reference for Singlepoints themselves and to disprove that the SonTay raider Singlepoints had tritium. The only reference is the aforementioned dual reticle Singlepoint. Of course, analog information can be easily lost to history after 50+ years, especially when it wasn't obviously significant at the time. Going off topic re the Airsoft Sight. MASP7 I checked the British magazine Singlepoint sight advertisements I have and in Feb '71 they refer to the Mk2 model day/night sight where the element is seen as red during the day and at dusk it switches to green. Based on this the green only element sight was probably discontinued by the end of 1970. From looking at the timeline I agree that the red element Mk2 Singlepoint with tritium would not of been available for the SonTay Raid. Sometime back on AR15 I posted information I gathered from a British firearms magazine article from 1969 re the introduction of the Singlepoint and as best I remember it mentioned tritium to power the sight for night use. Might be good to note that there doesn't appear to be any restrictions to the sights sold in the UK and commonwealth countries. Sights sold by Normark in the USA were limited to commercial/civilian sales and not available with tritium. Armalite was the Singlepoint distributor for military/law enforcement sales in North America and tritium powered sights were limited to the US military and allied military. |
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Posted: 4/3/2023 2:54:12 PM EDT
[#41]
By that time, Radium had largely, but not completely been phased out for these types of applications.
So it could have been Radium rather than Tritium. In addition to watches, Radium was also used in a lot of gauges/indicators, and other such applications where low/no light visibility is important, especially in aircraft and vehicles. Raymond |
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Posted: 4/4/2023 6:20:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By that time, Radium had largely, but not completely been phased out for these types of applications. So it could have been Radium rather than Tritium. In addition to watches, Radium was also used in a lot of gauges/indicators, and other such applications where low/no light visibility is important, especially in aircraft and vehicles. Raymond Radium was phased out but tritium was not in big production or widely available in ampules for illumination until the 70s and not in sights in that form until the 80s. Tritium mixed with phosphors in paint was used for sights but not in glass ampules for sights until until the 80s This is similar formulation to radium in paint mixture. Promethium-147 was used in the late 60s and early 70s for M16 sights and similar illumination. It had a very short half life which the producers thought was very attractive (safe - it decays to safety quickly for disposal and waste and they had to buy them every few years to replenish). Tritium glass ampules came into vogue with trijicon who got their ampules from switzerland and I think Larry Keating in Grand Island NY was the first importer of tritium ampules for that purpose. |
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Posted: 4/5/2023 7:33:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Tritium ampules appear to show up in Britain at least in the 60s with the Hythe/Trilux tritium insert iron sights for the SLR, and definitely in 76' when production of the Trilux SUIT scope began.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/l1a1-slr-trilux-front-sight-511741020 https://www.falfiles.com/threads/hythe-site.477235/ They would have been around throughout the development of the SinglePoint and obviously the British Military had an interest in utilizing them. |
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Posted: 4/5/2023 7:37:37 PM EDT
[#44]
But why? OEG’s are so cheap.
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Posted: 4/22/2023 6:26:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Anyone gone out and fired theirs yet?
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Posted: 4/26/2023 1:35:12 PM EDT
[#46]
 Updateno way indoors going to try it out at the range on a couple of platforms |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 12:21:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Just ordered my scope from KICBBGUN out of Taiwan, I really hope I didn't get screwed over, I couldn't find any airsoft dealers here in the states that had the scope.
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Posted: 5/19/2023 9:32:25 AM EDT
[#48]
My Repro Singlepoint is Serial # 3896X (Can't read the last digit.
I haven't managed to get to the range with mine yet. |
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Posted: 5/22/2023 9:18:14 PM EDT
[#49]
OST for range results.
But all I really need is the mount for my OG Single Point. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 8:27:46 AM EDT
[#50]
Two months since the OP got his and no range reports? I was hoping someone would have put one through the wringer and found out what it’s made of.
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