I’d recommend looking into getting the Vickers Guide Ar15 Volume 1 reprint they have on sale right now.

If you guys plan on doing some clones, can’t get any better pictures than those and that have literally everything in that book

Well, I don't have any pics for you, but I do love that you guys are looking into this. The M16A2, M16A4, M4, and M4A1 lowers were all very cool. Looking forward to seeing you guys get a bit more retro!

https://bpullignwolnet.dotster.com/retroblackrifle/ModGde/CrbGde/609.html

Does this help?  The other model is listed there too.

Same here.

That's cool that PSA is looking into doing some retro carbines! I'd be interested in an XM177E2 and it's about time I finally get a PSA lower after buying six of your uppers over the years!

C7 uppers would be nice

How correct are you planning on making them?  Enough to require a license from Colt?  M16-cut inside?  If you went with 100% correct exterior markings, where would PSA's marking be at?

One thing I really want is a correctly-marked GAU-5A/A lower, but as I recall, someone here outed Braceman to Colt, so that's done, and I don't know who else can and is willing to do them, and one of the Colt re-issues is entirely out of the question, since I live in CA and it's on the ban list.  I also don't expect to find a cut receiver capable of being welded back together or to an 80% rear half of this model, and if I did I'm sure it'd cost hundreds of dollars.

If PSA is planning on doing sufficiently correct retro clone lowers, that gives me some hope here.  Y'all have piqued my curiosity with this inquiry, for sure.

Some good pictures here: http://retroblackrifle.com/

Another good resource is "The Black Rifle" by Stevens & Ezell

I'm looking forward to seeing your retro product line.

I have a pic somewhere of a really early XM177E1 that actually used a 601 lower. A partial fence lower would be more correct for an E1, IMO. I'd like to thank Palmetto State Armory for building great guns, bot ARs and AKs, and doing it IN THIS COUNTRY. You guys get a lot of crap, but all the stuff I've seen and helped friends build has been good to go.

E2 pics stolen from Shung (also a member here)

https://www.1911forum.com/threads/colt-car-15-xm177-e2.989552/

Edit: RIF...

Want some CAD help on the forgings?



One day i will crack the code of how to model an accurate OG pistol grip

I'm not PSA, but recently ordered one of their M16A4 lowers, and here's what it looks like:

I suspect they will be A2 lowers with cool markings. The A2, A4, M4, and M4A1 lowers were all beautifully done, but I do suspect that some re-profiling will be in order for XM177 lowers.

Hmm, the only way I'd go for that on a clone build would be if the Palmetto markings were somewhere really discrete, like on the underside of the magazine well in the smallest legally permissible font size (I've seen it done on AR receivers) and if I could find someone to complete the engravings to make it look close enough to the real thing, but finding someone who'll do that is part of the problem right now.

I have one of each of the A2, A4, M4, and M4A1 lowers.  The rifles went together without issue.  I like the retro vibe of them and have built pretty good clones with them.  I have a a franken gun that is kind of an XM177 that I would turn into a better clone if you come out with a receiver for them.

Thanks for doing what you are doing and please keep it up.

Reference my museum threads at the top of the retro forum for original examples.

That's awesome!  Looking forward to seeing what you guys produce.  Seems like you guys have a lot of interesting projects in the pipeline.

Colt 607 (top) aka CAR-15
I'd go with these GX markings because they look cooler (but commercial examples were also marked MOD. 07 or MOD. 07A and possibly MOD. 07B)


Larger photo here: https://i.imgur.com/zG3yrIU.jpg
These won't sell as well as other retro carbine lowers (because the specific parts needed for a 607 repro are rare) so I'd plan on producing them last (or after any XM177 options but probably before the USAF stuff).

Colt 609 (middle) aka XM177E1
Early examples were partial fence, while late examples were full fence. (This is also true of Model 610 aka XM177 aka USAF GAU-5/A production.) I'd prefer partial fence, personally.
Attached File


Attached File

(This is a commercial Model 619 but it better shows how the COMMANDO marking was spaced and centered over the caliber engraving.)

Colt 629 (bottom) aka XM177E2

These were all full fence (and the USAF model was marked GAU.-5/A/A)

I'd sort them in this production priority:
XM177E2 (full fence)
COMMANDO (partial fence)
COMMANDO (full fence)
GX-5857 (partial fence)*
*If you guys decide to reproduce this model's specific stock and handguard you'd increase demand for the lower, but I can't advise if it'd be worth the tooling cost(s). I'd guess probably so for the stocks (or maybe just the aluminum components offered as a DIY kit for people to cut down and fit their own stocks to.)

GAU-5/A (partial fence)
GAU.-5/A/A (full fence)
GAU-5/A (full fence)

(I doubt the USAF-specific markings will see as much demand.)

I'm really excited about the possibility, and appreciate that you're exploring this.

Maybe you could work out a deal with CZ/Colt

For the most part, the XM177 and the XM177E1 used the same “partial fence” lower receivers as the XM16E1 rifles. This type of lower receiver is fairly accurately exemplified by the Brownells XBRN16E1 and the Nodak Spud NDS-XM16E1.

Freaking awesome. I've been wondering if PSA might be going to take the retro plunge at some point.

More options are always welcome, IMHO.

Pretty good write up. I’d argue that all of them are CAR-15s though, as that was a family of weapons.

My above mentioned threads have two examples of Museum GX-5857s

Also I recognize my own photo for that XM177E2 pic

Thanks!

Of course, since that's how Colt marketed them.

Thanks so much; those are really great photos!

I recognize that GAU pic

Are they going to be xm177 engravings on an A2 lower or are you guys going to be reprofileing them to look like an A1?

Curious about the profile myself.  But I got to say, would love to see one marked "COMMANDO"!

I hope not since H&R didn’t make XM177’s

Awesome!

@PalmettoStateArmory
I really really want a COMMANDO partial fence in gray.

Neither did PSA.

Touché LOL

Can you also produce these with the correct lock nuts in place of the castle nut, as well as anodize the receivers/buffer tubes the proper XM grey, and make sure the tubes are 7075 and 2 position.

As far as aluminum stocks, Double Star bought the tooling from Essential Arms to produce them if you guys could work something out with them.

@palmettostatearmory

You could maybe do something similar to how Brownells did it and buy the forgings from Nodak Spud.

@HarlanNDS @mike_nds

With the proper re-profiling of the lowers into XM16E1 and A1 receivers, you will have a winner!!

Also, if can engrave them in the same manner as your M4A1 marked receivers, but with “COMMANDO,” “XM16E1” and “M16A1,” I’d buy at least 2-3 of each!!

Is there any legal issues with simply going with an engraved “PSA” over “PALMETTO STATE ARMORY?”  IMHO, “PSA DEFENSE” would be a nice touch as well.

Honestly, it’s the engraving that will win a lot of people over...  “I” like the font size and the uniformity of the depth of your engravings on your current M4A1 receivers, which is far better looking than say the markings on a Brownells retro lower receiver.

I’m not a purist, but something that looks “retro correct,” I’m more than good with that!!

Dear PSA,

Would it be possible for the company to create roll-mark tooling rather than engraving these markings? That would be very very cool.

I would love to have an XM177E2 lower for my current build. What kind of timeline are we looking at for this kind of thing?


Thank you for engaging with the community on this.

I hope this goes through since I'd be in for 2-3 Commando and another 2-3 for the XM16E1 receivers...  Any chances of an M16A1 lower receiver to round out these retro series of receivers??

I have enough uppers receivers for these, but can't wait for more A1 1/12 barrels to return back to the market as well.

Would you mind doing any GAU-5/A marked lowers as well? They'd be using the same partial fence lowers.
http://pullig.dyndns.org/retroblackrifle/sitebuilder/images/Slide42-600x435.jpg

PROPERTY
OF
U.S. GOVT.
SMG GAU-5/A
5.56 MM
SERIAL900000

Thanks for the reply. Good luck with your endeavors.

@PalmettoStateArmory

I cannot tell if my IM is getting sent or not. It says it did, but Sent Items isn't working apparently. (Maybe the message is too long?)
So I'm posting my reply here.

This way if I got anything wrong, my brothers in the Retro Forum can correct me...

(I know you probably don't need years, but thought it might help keep things in order a bit, and/or possibly assist with descriptions when they make it to your website.)



Josiah,

See above. I edited in some corrections.

I do not think the serial number ranges were that high on the real Colts, but I'd have to get back to you on that (if it matters).

The GX-5857 was not the XM177. It appeared in 1964 and therefore predated the XM177. Only a small number (50?) were used by the military (mostly they went to Navy SEAL teams). They all had a partial fence.
See: http://pullig.dyndns.org/retroblackrifle/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html

Only the USAF issued the XM177 aka Colt model 610. They probably received a batch or two that were marked COMMANDO but the USAF quickly decided to call it the GAU-5/A so most of their 610 production was marked GAU-5/A.

The XM177 (without forward assist) and the XM177E1 (with a forward assist) were developed simultaneously, just like the XM16 (model 604) and XM16E1 (model 603) and delivered to specific branches who either required the forward assist (Army), or required that it be absent (Air Force). The USAF did not have any forward assists until they adopted the M16A2.

Both the XM177 and XM177E1 (models 610 and 609, respectively) entered contract production in 1966. The XM177E1 was primarily delivered to the US Army, but Navy SEALs received some as well.

Early production (starting in 1966) all had "partial fence" lowers, while later production switched to "full fence" (beginning around mid-1967).

The XM177E2 and GAU-5/A/A (models 629 and 630, respectively) both entered service around late 1967 (possibly 1968 for USAF). Every one of them had a "full fence" lower receiver.

The first production batch of XM177E2 (which consisted of only 510 carbines) went to MACV-SOG and they had them by September 1967.

Troy released a good reproduction of the GAU-5/A/A (Colt model 630) already. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOnIrJ2hWbI

This is the most concise article I could find, but unfortunately all of the above nomenclature is rather confusing (and the article is in error regarding the Model 649): https://www.ammoland.com/2018/03/colt-commando-xm177-carbine-history/

I suggest referencing The Black Rifle for further historical data. As pointed out by @dsbock it's a great resource.

Partial fence vs. Full fence: http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Colt_AR-15_Identification_Guide#Partial_Fence

Best Regards,
KB

You're welcome.

Very cool.
GAU-5/A should be marked:

(Colt AR-15 with logo)
PROPERTY
OF U.S. GOVT.
SMG GAU-5/A
5.56 MM
SERIAL903843

Like this:
Attached File



I'd go ahead and do the GAU.-5/A/A (full fence) as well, so you'll have the whole set.

(Colt AR-15 with logo)
PROPERTY
OF U.S. GOVT.
GAU.-5/A/A
CAL. 5.56 MM.
9089324

Attached File


Can someone else help with serial numbers?

Looks like everything XM177 through XM177E2 and GAU.-5/A/A should fall within 900000 through 909999 if I'm reading this right.



A known GX-5857 was SERIAL 014657 (which indicates it was part of the S.A.W.S. contract, and that makes sense.)

Where the list reads "Model 03" and "Model 04" they're referring to the Model 603 (XM16E1 and M16A1) for the US Army, and Model 604 (XM16 and M16) for the USAF and USN.

From this thread (some pics remain): https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Photos-of-Commando-GAU-XM177E2-magwells-and-serial-numbers/123-755570/

As talked about before, would love to have this one H&R marked!  SN:240000+

CD

@PalmettoStateArmory

I'm going to reiterate this, but for the proper look and function, as well as to fill a gap in the market, it would be very appreciated if you could also make the proper XM Grey two position receiver extension (in 7075) as well as spanner style lock ring (no castle nut notches -- drilled through hole for spanner style wrench, three staking notches).


(Credit for image: Stottman065)

Is PSA going to be machining lower receivers to partial fence and/or A1 profiles, or will they just be engraving retro model numbers/info onto modern A3/A4 lower receivers?

Would it be possible to start them at a later serial range instead of adding an additional numeral?

i.e. start them at SERIAL903000