barrel nut for AR pistol without handguard?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - barrel nut for AR pistol without handguard?

Posted: 10/11/2017 8:57:39 PM EDT

I've been searching for what I thought would be an easy thing to find, but to no avail. Does anyone make a simple barrel nut that isn't designed for delta rings or free float handguards?

I can understand why the product might not have existed before the increasing popularity of pistol builds...

The closest I've found is the GZP one mentioned here, halfway through the article:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/10/building-an-exotic-compact-9-mm-ar-15-pistol/

But, a) I can't actually find it on GZP's site, and b) It's sort of a monstrosity for the purpose. I'm envisioning something half to three-quarters the length of a typical barrel nut, but with flats for a wrench instead of the tightening nubs which would be sort of ugly when exposed.

Does anything like that exist?

I'm not certain I'll remove the handguard, but having options (or not) would help decide. :) This is for a 6" handguard on a 4" barrel (flush with the KAK flash can). I might end up cutting the first of two m-lok sections off, shortening the handguard by 1.5" to 2", and leaving space to put an Arisaka Finger Stop or something on the bottom.

Posted: 10/11/2017 9:32:39 PM EDT

[#1]

A Daniel Defense barrel nut used for Lite rails and RIS II rails is just a plain barrel nut. Possibly what you are looking for?

Posted: 10/11/2017 9:38:07 PM EDT

[#2]

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Quoted:
A Daniel Defense barrel nut used for Lite rails and RIS II rails is just a plain barrel nut. Possibly what you are looking for?

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This fella here?

https://danieldefense.com/components-parts/daniel-defense-bolt-up-systemtm-barrel-nut.html

That's definitely simple enough to do the trick, other than the mild annoyance of needing a special tool for it. At 0.9 oz, I feel like that's going to be a tough candidate to beat. That's only a whisker more than the aluminum/Ti ones for handguards.

p.s. I was just editing the original post with added thoughts at the end when you responded.

Posted: 10/11/2017 9:51:51 PM EDT

[#3]

Noveske makes a similar barrel nut.

Posted: 10/11/2017 10:12:18 PM EDT

[#4]

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Noveske makes a similar barrel nut.

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The NSR is all I see from them.

https://www.noveske.com/collections/parts/products/nsr-barrel-nut

That's overkill for what I have in mind, being so long relative to the barrel.

I imagine there are other options out there, similar to the two suggestions, that I wouldn't have found in searching for something for non-handguard applications.

Posted: 10/11/2017 10:15:12 PM EDT

[#5]

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Quoted:
This fella here?

https://danieldefense.com/components-parts/daniel-defense-bolt-up-systemtm-barrel-nut.html

That's definitely simple enough to do the trick, other than the mild annoyance of needing a special tool for it. At 0.9 oz, I feel like that's going to be a tough candidate to beat. That's only a whisker more than the aluminum/Ti ones for handguards.

p.s. I was just editing the original post with added thoughts at the end when you responded.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
A Daniel Defense barrel nut used for Lite rails and RIS II rails is just a plain barrel nut. Possibly what you are looking for?

This fella here?

https://danieldefense.com/components-parts/daniel-defense-bolt-up-systemtm-barrel-nut.html

That's definitely simple enough to do the trick, other than the mild annoyance of needing a special tool for it. At 0.9 oz, I feel like that's going to be a tough candidate to beat. That's only a whisker more than the aluminum/Ti ones for handguards.

p.s. I was just editing the original post with added thoughts at the end when you responded.

The castle nut wrench of an AR multi tool fits the Daniel Defense barrel nut if you happen to have one already. Having an AR multi wrench saves from buying a special wrench from Daniel Defense although the DD wrench usually grabs better.

Posted: 10/11/2017 10:28:02 PM EDT

[#6]

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The castle nut wrench of an AR multi tool fits the Daniel Defense barrel nut if you happen to have one already. Having an AR multi wrench saves from buying a special wrench from Daniel Defense although the DD wrench usually grabs better.

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Nice! I thought it looked awfully similar, but they refer to it as proprietary. Sneaky buggers.

I don't have an armorer's wrench yet, but I've got it at the top of my wish list.

Posted: 10/12/2017 10:39:32 AM EDT

[#7]

For what it's worth, the barrel nut for Rock River's PDS looks identical to the Daniel Defense one. And like the DD, the castle nut part of an armorer's wrench/multi-tool fits perfectly.

Part #LP0017, was about $17 IIRC

Posted: 10/12/2017 12:23:47 PM EDT

[#8]

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For what it's worth, the barrel nut for Rock River's PDS looks identical to the Daniel Defense one. And like the DD, the castle nut part of an armorer's wrench/multi-tool fits perfectly.

Part #LP0017, was about $17 IIRC

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I've looked at RR's site for other stuff before, and found it very difficult to find anything, being basically just a digital catalog with no product pages.

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=277
https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=415

It might be buried under one of those pages, but it's escaping me...

Approaching it from the other direction, their barrel nut wrenches appear to come in two flavors:

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=365

Their typical armorer's one, which would fit with what you're saying, says it's for the CAR system. Their "regular" one is for the style with the holes in the front of the barrel.

My PSA upper did arrive last night -- good ol' UPS, not delivering until nearly 8pm -- and one of the first things I did was remove the handguard to see what it had underneath. It's actually a very stylish barrel nut (I wish I could post pics), shiny black with wrench flats on the end and perforated holes all around it. It's 2" long (and steel), however, which is silly on a 4" barrel with only 3" external. I would guess there's close to 2 oz of wasted material there.

Posted: 10/12/2017 1:10:12 PM EDT

[#9]

Yeah their website is terrible. I had to call customer service to order spare parts. Plus I wouldn't order any of their special wrenches. Get a wrench like this:

Lots of places sell them. I bought one for ~$15 bucks (on eBay I think; honestly don't remember). It's held up just fine through routine use.

As for the PSA barrel nut, can you cut it down and use an existing hole to fit a spanner wrench on there? You could even drill a new hole further back if need be. One thing I would caution against though is using the 'hook' end of armorer's wrench (the end that has the little nub in the hook and the flat head screwdriver on the outside) to torque a barrel nut. I tried it once and snapped the nub off. It's designed for the older-style buffer tube lock rings (with holes), so not as much torque required compared to a barrel nut.

Posted: 10/12/2017 1:40:14 PM EDT

[#10]

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Plus I wouldn't order any of their special wrenches. Get a wrench like this:

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Plus I wouldn't order any of their special wrenches. Get a wrench like this:

Yeah, that's the kind I plan to get. I almost bought one on eBay a few days ago that seemed to be priced too low, but it went out of stock when I went back to it. Then it came back at a much higher price, so I'm waiting to see if it flips again... $15-25 looks to be the going rate for the full-featured ones.

As for the PSA barrel nut, can you cut it down and use an existing hole to fit a spanner wrench on there? You could even drill a new hole further back if need be.

It's possible that would work, if one of the spanners fits the hole pattern (6mm holes). It looks like the last row of holes ends just before the receiver's threads. Cutting after that row would eliminate almost 2/3 of the length and might give it a cool, vented look at the base of the barrel. Then again, the Daniel Defense barrel nut is only $23 and apparently free s/h, so is it worth the trouble to cut and refinish the PSA one?

One thing I would caution against though is using the 'hook' end of armorer's wrench (the end that has the little nub in the hook and the flat head screwdriver on the outside) to torque a barrel nut. I tried it once and snapped the nub off. It's designed for the older-style buffer tube lock rings (with holes), so not as much torque required compared to a barrel nut.

I was curious what those are for. I figured it was just to give it a Transformers scorpion look! Yeah, I can't imagine that single nub would handle much torquing.

Posted: 10/12/2017 2:09:54 PM EDT

[#11]

Yep I'd just get the DD nut and be done with it, especially if you can get it shipped for free. That way you don't have to mess around with the other one. I find myself messing with parts all the time, trying to get them to work, when in the end it would've been easier to just have bought a different one.

Posted: 10/12/2017 2:28:41 PM EDT

[#12]

I hear ya there! I'm very guilty of tinkering with and modifying stuff, not always to good ends... But, that's what really drew me into the AR platform and the desire to build this pistol: the modularity of the system and ability to make it fit my personality.

Also, if I ever wanted to put the handguard back on, say it turns out to be tough to keep my hand away from the heat of the barrel nut when gripping the mag well (I'm thinking I'll put a foam/rubber cover over the nut, if I can find something the right I.D.), having the original barrel nut unmolested would be handy. I have no intention of mounting anything [to the rails] in front of the receiver though, and the pistol is perfectly balanced and compact, so there's no reason to need my support hand up that far.

Posted: 10/12/2017 6:58:18 PM EDT

[#13]

So you are going to be able to shoot magazines of ammo through the gun, with no handguard, and think it's realistic that you won't bump into the smoking barrel or barrel nut?

And you realize the GZP one you referenced in your first post is made for a free float handguard, that's what all those threaded holes are for.

Your best bet is something for a clamp on style handguard.

http://www.chandlerhardwoods.com/product-p/bln.htm

Posted: 10/12/2017 8:22:52 PM EDT

[#14]

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So you are going to be able to shoot magazines of ammo through the gun, with no handguard, and think it's realistic that you won't bump into the smoking barrel or barrel nut?

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So you are going to be able to shoot magazines of ammo through the gun, with no handguard, and think it's realistic that you won't bump into the smoking barrel or barrel nut?

TBD... My hand wants to naturally slide up to the threaded portion below the barrel nut, so it'll probably require what I mentioned previously: some sort of rubber or foam cover for the barrel nut. Something like an over-sized handlebar grip, or even a velcro cord organizer strap with some substance to it.

And you realize the GZP one you referenced in your first post is made for a free float handguard, that's what all those threaded holes are for.

Yeah, I figured that must be the case after the fact. It was referenced in a rail-less use, but also with the option to add one.

Your best bet is something for a clamp on style handguard.

http://www.chandlerhardwoods.com/product-p/bln.htm

That's basically what I have right now, but a bit shorter. I think any clamp-on style is going to be longer than I want, out of necessity to keep a handguard from easily twisting about on it.

The PSA handguard it came with has two bolts that clamp down on the perforated nut. I'm curious if that's even practical. It's an aluminum handguard, clamped to steel. Wouldn't it transfer it's fair share of heat if the barrel nut is too hot to touch? Or does the extra surface area dissipate heat as quick as it's transferred?

Posted: 10/12/2017 9:12:37 PM EDT

[#15]

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TBD... My hand wants to naturally slide up to the threaded portion below the barrel nut, so it'll probably require what I mentioned previously: some sort of rubber or foam cover for the barrel nut. Something like an over-sized handlebar grip, or even a velcro cord organizer strap with some substance to it.

Yeah, I figured that must be the case after the fact. It was referenced in a rail-less use, but also with the option to add one.

That's basically what I have right now, but a bit shorter. I think any clamp-on style is going to be longer than I want, out of necessity to keep a handguard from easily twisting about on it.

The PSA handguard it came with has two bolts that clamp down on the perforated nut. I'm curious if that's even practical. It's an aluminum handguard, clamped to steel. Wouldn't it transfer it's fair share of heat if the barrel nut is too hot to touch? Or does the extra surface area dissipate heat as quick as it's transferred?

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Sure the aluminum handguards get hot. But no where as hot as the steel barrel and barrel nut.

Be sure to post the pics of your skin melted to it when you happen to touch it. :)

Posted: 10/12/2017 10:10:48 PM EDT

[#16]

You could always use a mag well grip

Posted: 10/12/2017 10:44:05 PM EDT

[#17]

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You could always use a mag well grip

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I looked at those, but dismissed the idea for a few reasons:

1) I'm not crazy about how they look.

2a) I'm trying to keep this build relatively light, and the ones that look better IMO double (or triple) up the weight penalty of the useless handguard and mounting adapter needed to affix them.

2b) Concerns about legality on a pistol and whether the ability to move them up from the mag well could make them be seen as a VFG.

My ASC metal mags arrived today, having been omitted from the original lower receiver shipment. Now that I've got the full picture in front of me, I'm not too worried about touching the hot barrel nut by accident. It's comfortable and fairly intuitive to have two fingers on the magazine and two on the mag well. That leaves 3/4" of room to spare between fingers/thumb and the barrel nut, with nowhere really to go wrong.

Posted: 10/12/2017 11:11:41 PM EDT

[#18]

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I looked at those, but dismissed the idea for a few reasons:

1) I'm not crazy about how they look.

2a) I'm trying to keep this build relatively light, and the ones that look better IMO double (or triple) up the weight penalty of the useless handguard and mounting adapter needed to affix them.

2b) Concerns about legality on a pistol and whether the ability to move them up from the mag well could make them be seen as a VFG.

My ASC metal mags arrived today, having been omitted from the original lower receiver shipment. Now that I've got the full picture in front of me, I'm not too worried about touching the hot barrel nut by accident. It's comfortable and fairly intuitive to have two fingers on the magazine and two on the mag well. That leaves 3/4" of room to spare between fingers/thumb and the barrel nut, with nowhere really to go wrong.

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How many times have you handled an AR? Sure you may survive shooting with 3/4" clearance, but your more likely to burn yourself after you're done pulling the trigger handling the weapon. Setting it down, picking it up. You don't have anything covering the barrel once you've got it hot.

Not trying to be a dick, it just doesn't seem like you've thought this through and you don't have much experience, which is fine. Everyone starts as newbies.

Posted: 10/13/2017 12:06:47 AM EDT

[#19]

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How many times have you handled an AR? Sure you may survive shooting with 3/4" clearance, but your more likely to burn yourself after you're done pulling the trigger handling the weapon. Setting it down, picking it up. You don't have anything covering the barrel once you've got it hot.

Not trying to be a dick, it just doesn't seem like you've thought this through and you don't have much experience, which is fine. Everyone starts as newbies.

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Yes, I have thought it through. No, I don't have much experience. You're making a lot of assumptions about my intended usage, however.

Posted: 10/13/2017 6:10:29 AM EDT

[#20]

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Yes, I have thought it through. No, I don't have much experience. You're making a lot of assumptions about my intended usage, however.

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Are you going to use a sling? What are you going to do with it after you just finished your mag dumps? The last time I took my AR out, after 3 mags of slow fire mag dumps, the aluminum handguard got so hot I had to put on a glove. There's no way I'd leave a barrel exposed without any kind of handguard.

Posted: 10/13/2017 12:25:26 PM EDT

[#21]

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Are you going to use a sling? What are you going to do with it after you just finished your mag dumps? The last time I took my AR out, after 3 mags of slow fire mag dumps, the aluminum handguard got so hot I had to put on a glove. There's no way I'd leave a barrel exposed without any kind of handguard.

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See, I had good reason to question if even the aluminum clamp-on handguard is of benefit. :) The Magpul poly-over-aluminum insulated venting system seems like the proper way to go about that. This gun is so compact and centered, with 6" of buffer tube and 6" of flash can / barrel nut (there's literally less than an inch of barrel showing), it feels perfectly natural to never grab it by the barrel.

As for my usage... This will be a home defense item, not a CCW or truck gun. It's highly likely I'll never do a full, rapid mag dump, let alone multiple. It'll probably be taken out a couple times a year to do some light plinking with friends to stay proficient with it. If it proves to be reliable, it'll replace a Mossberg 590 (pistol grip & breeching barrel, one bad a$$ mutha) for the HD purpose that I hope/expect never materializes. I never fired the Mossberg for 4+ years and only put 2 or 3 rounds through it when I finally did.

Mostly, the AR-9 will be a fun toy to tinker with and tailor to my liking -- much more practical than filling the driveway with more project vehicles -- and a plenty lethal HD weapon if needed.

Posted: 10/13/2017 2:03:44 PM EDT

[#22]

I still want to see the burn pics when you do it, those couple times a year to stay proficient.

:)

Posted: 10/14/2017 3:14:09 PM EDT

[#23]

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I still want to see the burn pics when you do it, those couple times a year to stay proficient.

:)

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You'll be happy to know, I think I'm gonna put a handguard on, after all. Simultaneous to this thread, I determined I'll have to send back the upper/barrel kit due to compatibility issues. In piecing together individual replacements, I settled on the KAW Valley (aka Faxon) 4.5" 9mm barrel, then noticed JBO also has an add-on option of a KAW Valley 3.2" CF handguard with aluminum nut for only $32 more than I was planning on spending on just the DD barrel nut, and only an extra 2 oz. I'd be hard pressed to DIY anything better and/or lighter than that.