do PSA 9mm Hybrid bolts actually work with Colt-style lowers?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - do PSA 9mm Hybrid bolts actually work with Colt-style lowers?

Posted: 10/12/2017 4:19:21 PM EDT

I received this PSA upper receiver package yesterday:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-4-9mm-6-m-lok-railed-upper-with-kak-flash-can-hybrid-bcg-ch-516446469.html

My Spike's Colt-style lower arrived a day earlier, so it was assembled & ready to go. All looked good except for one minor detail...the upper won't quite close. The bottom of the BCG hits the feed ramp. Others have had similar problems, with various upper/lower combos:

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/please-help-with-ar-9mm-build-issue.228105/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Colt-style-9mm-lower----How-high-should-the-feed-ramps-be-above-the-top-of-the-lower-/66-707454/

I've been discussing it with Spike's (very helpful; figured they'd be much easier to get a response from, so best to start there), trying to determine if the fault is with the specs of the upper or lower. Since there's no real mil-spec to adhere to for 9mm, it's tough to say, but the PSA bolt extends ~0.5 mm lower than Spike's own bolt.

During that exchange, I noticed something on the individual product page for PSA's hybrid bolt:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/oem-psa-g-9-hybrid-9mm-bolt-carrier-group-w-logo.html

"Compatable with PSA 9mm Conversion Kits and PSA 9mm billet lowers that accept GLOCK-style magazines"

Contrast that with what is stated on the upper receiver package pages:

"G-9 Hybrid 9mm BCG...allows use with either Glock-style, or Colt-style magazine, Palmetto State Armory lowers."

So, the question now is, does PSA's hybrid BCG actually work for Colt-style lowers? Either the statement on the package pages is wrong, or the individual product page needs updating with the Colt info. The fact that it doesn't clear the Colt feed ramp makes me suspicious of the package claims. Does it work for anyone else?

If not compatible as-is, what are the ramifications of shaving 0.5mm from the front ~3/4" of the bottom of the bolt to clear the ramp?

Posted: 10/12/2017 6:18:00 PM EDT

[#1]

Before you go mad with the Dremel, I suggest you call PSA and give them a chance to make it right.

Posted: 10/12/2017 6:27:12 PM EDT

[#2]

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Before you go mad with the Dremel, I suggest you call PSA and give them a chance to make it right.

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That's part of the plan, for sure, but their customer support isn't known for being overly useful for technical stuff like this. Most likely, they'll tell me to send it in, and they'll turn around and send back the same one.

If anything, I'm hoping one of their reps will be on the forum and read this, and have some insight into compatibility.

Posted: 10/12/2017 8:43:32 PM EDT

[#3]

A Glock system bolt, should work with a Colt system

Posted: 10/12/2017 8:53:10 PM EDT

[#4]

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A Glock system bolt, should work with a Colt system

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"Should", yes, but if they only designed it for Glock lowers, they'd of had no reason to machine it down enough to clear the feed ramp on Colt lowers.

Rephrased another way, is the PSA Hybrid BCG truly compatible with Colt lowers or did I just get a funky one? If it turns out that it works for other people, then I've got reason to investigate the condition of mine. Right now, it's looking questionable that it's actually Colt compatible.

Posted: 10/13/2017 12:04:57 AM EDT

[#5]

I just remembered something else. PSA discontinued their Colt-style lowers. That may not mean anything, but it adds to the likelihood that their hybrid bolt hasn't actually been designed for Colts.

Posted: 10/13/2017 10:52:55 AM EDT

[#6]

Can you post photos of the feed ramp contact point ?

Posted: 10/13/2017 12:28:04 PM EDT

[#7]

I've got several pictures I shared with Spike's in diagnosing the problem, but I don't have any way of posting them here, unfortunately. If I'm not mistaken, I'd have to sign up for one of the image hosting services and link them up, but wouldn't be able to see them myself until I have more posts?

Posted: 10/13/2017 12:34:46 PM EDT

[#8]

But...maybe I can illustrate it with the product photo.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/oem-psa-g-9-hybrid-9mm-bolt-carrier-group-w-logo.html

They've only got the one photo of it currently, showing the right side view. See how the front (right) ~third has that center section that slopes down before leveling out? That's the part that hits on the tip of the feed ramp. The mark on the bolt from when I was trying to close the receiver is 5mm in from the bolt face. It's a line straight across that center section (I assume there's a name for it; bolt catch engagement device?? maybe they over-built it to meet up lower with finicky Glock LRBHO's, in the process adding too much material for Colt feed ramps), matching the straight line at the end of the feed ramp.

Posted: 10/13/2017 2:16:14 PM EDT

[#9]

Well, I got through to PSA customer support. Friendly guy, but the answers were what I expected:

* They can't guarantee compatibility on anything but PSA lowers.

* He initially felt the BCG's individual page is just incomplete info, as far as only specifying Glock compatibility. More on that...

* If sending it in, they would check it against their lower and most likely see it as okay and send it back to me. When I asked if they even have Colt lowers to test it on, he agreed it would probably just be tested on a Glock lower since they've discontinued the Colt line.

* Modifying it to clear the feed ramp would void the warranty.

* I can return the full package (upper/BCG/barrel), being well within the 30 days, but not just the BCG since it wasn't purchased as a separate item.

He recommended to his manager that they look into the stated Colt compatibility on the package pages, but that's all the help he could provide. Toward the end of the conversation, he seemed to agree with me that it hasn't actually been tested on Colt lowers, although I may be putting words into his mouth there. They no longer sell a Colt lower and can't promise compatibility on anything but their lowers, so it really should be considered just a Glock-style BCG until proven otherwise.

Shave the bolt to clear the ramp, or return the whole thing and search for something different? I'm happy with the setup other than bolt clearance, so that's a tough call.

Posted: 10/13/2017 3:46:45 PM EDT

[#10]

Are the feed ramps on the lower "replaceable"... or are they permanent ?

And looking at your NW Firearms link... the photo.. is that where yours is making contact ?

Posted: 10/13/2017 4:45:05 PM EDT

[#11]

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Are the feed ramps on the lower "replaceable"... or are they permanent ?

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Are the feed ramps on the lower "replaceable"... or are they permanent ?

It's permanent, as far as I can tell.

And looking at your NW Firearms link... the photo.. is that where yours is making contact ?

Yeah, that shows it pretty well. The Spike's feed ramp is shaped a bit differently, with curved indentations instead of a flat ramp, sort of mirroring the M4 ramp design to transport the round smoothly out of the magazine.

While looking for alternatives (I'm leaning toward sending it back and paying a bit more for something that inspires more confidence in the compatibility claims), I ran across this package:

http://www.spintaprecision.com/combo-deal-ar-9-billet-7075-slick-side-stripped-upper-with-blem-9mm-bolt-carrier-group-sale/

Aside from the price keeping it in range of the PSA package, once adding barrel and flash can, the part that caught my interest is the photo of the BCG. Notice how it doesn't have that problematic part dip lower like in the PSA photo.

Posted: 10/13/2017 7:22:52 PM EDT

[#12]

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It's permanent, as far as I can tell.

Yeah, that shows it pretty well. The Spike's feed ramp is shaped a bit differently, with curved indentations instead of a flat ramp, sort of mirroring the M4 ramp design to transport the round smoothly out of the magazine.

While looking for alternatives (I'm leaning toward sending it back and paying a bit more for something that inspires more confidence in the compatibility claims), I ran across this package:

http://www.spintaprecision.com/combo-deal-ar-9-billet-7075-slick-side-stripped-upper-with-blem-9mm-bolt-carrier-group-sale/

Aside from the price keeping it in range of the PSA package, once adding barrel and flash can, the part that caught my interest is the photo of the BCG. Notice how it doesn't have that problematic part dip lower like in the PSA photo.

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Out of curiosity , what trigger are you running ?... I wonder if PSA added the "dip" to work with more triggers.

Posted: 10/13/2017 7:33:56 PM EDT

[#13]

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Out of curiosity , what trigger are you running ?... I wonder if PSA added the "dip" to work with more triggers.

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I'm not sure... I transferred it over from my other AR, as I wasn't crazy about the mil-spec trigger that came with the LPK I bought for this build. It's unmarked, but looks exactly like the Ground Zero Precision AR Enhanced Fire Control .... Timney style hammer and Geissele style trigger. I imagine it's a knockoff, but it feels great.

Isn't the ramped section the only enhancement to a standard bolt for trigger clearance purposes for Glock lowers? Wouldn't the dip, to use your better-than-my term, reduce the number of triggers it could work with rather than increase?

Posted: 10/13/2017 7:36:53 PM EDT

[#14]

Mine runs on my PSA Colt lower like a sewing machine. Thousands of flawless rounds.

Posted: 10/13/2017 7:42:15 PM EDT

[#15]

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Mine runs on my PSA Colt lower like a sewing machine. Thousands of flawless rounds.

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I bolded the key part, which I didn't think of when starting the thread. I'm of the opinion that PSA designed the hybrid BCG to work with their old Colt-style lowers, but there is not a single Colt-style lower currently available on the market that they have verified it will work with. Again, that's my opinion, not fact.

Posted: 10/13/2017 7:59:50 PM EDT

[#16]

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I'm not sure... I transferred it over from my other AR, as I wasn't crazy about the mil-spec trigger that came with the LPK I bought for this build. It's unmarked, but looks exactly like the Ground Zero Precision AR Enhanced Fire Control .... Timney style hammer and Geissele style trigger. I imagine it's a knockoff, but it feels great.

Isn't the ramped section the only enhancement to a standard bolt for trigger clearance purposes for Glock lowers? Wouldn't the dip, to use your better-than-my term, reduce the number of triggers it could work with rather than increase?

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Frankly, a lot of Colt pattern PCC's are very fussy about triggers... mine would not consistently lock the hammer reset on a Geissele Super 3 Gun, but does work with a USGI profile hammer... all it took was the tiny little bit of extra hammer length at its cocked peak.

So.. in a round about way, the PSA bolt would be more flexible ( trigger wise ) with that little extended / raised dip.

Posted: 10/13/2017 8:06:14 PM EDT

[#17]

I will add... do not modify the PSA bolt... it might not cock your hammer properly....

My PSA Hybrid BCG does not have the dip or hump... it is flat right up to the hammer ramp.

Mine is a PSA Blem lower with a PSA magwell Colt pattern top install insert.

If anything I would be tempted ( do at your own risk ) to slightly remove some material from the feed ramps... that is why I asked if the feed ramps were replaceable.

Posted: 10/13/2017 8:13:41 PM EDT

[#18]

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I will add... do not modify the PSA bolt... it might not cock your hammer properly....

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I will add... do not modify the PSA bolt... it might not cock your hammer properly....

I wouldn't have thought of that. Thanks for the warning!

My PSA Hybrid BCG does not have the dip or hump... it is flat right up to the hammer ramp.

Really? So, it looks different than the hybrid BCG they currently advertise?

If anything I would be tempted ( do at your own risk ) to slightly remove some material from the feed ramps... that is why I asked if the feed ramps were replaceable.

If it were removable, I'd be inclined to try that. As it stands, I'd probably just ruin the lower receiver which is arguably the highest quality part in the build.

That said... at this point I would try your Sprinta plan.

It's definitely sounding like the alternate direction, as opposed to trying to make the PSA bolt work, is the way to go. As I was searching for more options, I was reminded of something I read a few days back about any upper receiver working for 9mm builds, with the M4 ramps not mattering and the gas hole being of little significance, and something that can be filled with RTV if it bothers you. I didn't even think of it before, but the handguard on the PSA package hides the open gas hole, and sure enough, it has M4 feed ramps. I assumed all along it's a 9mm-specific upper, when in fact it's a standard upper in slick side configuration. So, if going with a comparable replacement, that opens up even more options.

Posted: 10/13/2017 8:18:32 PM EDT

[#19]

And , FYI... after you get it up and running... let us know how it shoots.

Don't hesitate to ask more questions.

My 16" 9MM PCC Colt pattern, carbine stocked runs like a champ with a Tubbs .308 Flatwire spring , a KAK Extended 9mm configurable Buffer at about 7.5oz.... MUCH less bark and blast from the OEM spring and 3.8oz buffer

Is yours a pistol ? , 16" carbine ?

What part of Oregun ?

I haunt the Tri-County Gun Club.

Posted: 10/13/2017 8:32:09 PM EDT

[#20]

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And , FYI... after you get it up and running... let us know how it shoots.

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And , FYI... after you get it up and running... let us know how it shoots.

For sure! I'm a newb, but I try to research in-depth any time I'm new to something, and I've learned tons here already. If this thread helps others as a PSA^2 (a Palmetto State Armory Public Service Announcement), then it's the least I can do in terms of giving back.

My 16" 9MM PCC Colt pattern, carbine stocked runs like a champ with a Tubbs .308 Flatwire spring , a KAK Extended 9mm configurable Buffer at about 7.5oz.... MUCH less bark and blast from the OEM spring and 3.8oz buffer

Is yours a pistol ? , 16" carbine ?

What part of Oregun ?

I haunt the Tri-County Gun Club.

I went with the MAS Defense 9mm pistol buffer kit, listed at 7.2 oz for the extended buffer but weighing in at 7.4 oz on my scale which rounds to the nearest 0.2 oz, so pretty similar to yours.

I'm mid-Valley. Was that an intentional misspelling of Oregon? :)

Posted: 10/13/2017 8:42:13 PM EDT

[#21]

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For sure! I'm a newb, but I try to research in-depth any time I'm new to something, and I've learned tons here already. If this thread helps others as a PSA^2 (a Palmetto State Armory Public Service Announcement), then it's the least I can do in terms of giving back.

I went with the MAS Defense 9mm pistol buffer kit, listed at 7.2 oz for the extended buffer but weighing in at 7.4 oz on my scale which rounds to the nearest 0.2 oz, so pretty similar to yours.

I'm mid-Valley. Was that an intentional misspelling of Oregon? :)

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Oregun... Yes

What buffer spring ?.... I have found the 9MM blowback Colt pattern to be VERY tolerant of HyWt buffers and HyWt springs .... I even had it running with a Sprinco .308 carbine spring and 10oz buffer.... but with that setup, all the 10oz and Sprinco did was move the recoil to the muzzle end ... lol... the muzzle dip from the very HyWt setup was counter productive, and boy howdy would that setup slam closed.

FYI.... I looks like you could use the Tubbs .308 spring if desired... It has more spring weight when the BCG is closed ( where you want it , to help with the BnB ) and normal spring weight for cycling.

Posted: 10/13/2017 9:03:04 PM EDT

[#22]

I'm not sure what weight spring the MAS kit comes with, but I would assume standard carbine spec.

http://shop.masdefense.com/9MM-PISTOL-BUFFER-TUBE-KIT-AR15-9-PBKI-P9C.htm

That's getting into an area I don't have much of a comfort level built up yet ... definitely something that meeting up with someone who knows the platform to experiment and iron out kinks would be useful.

I can vouch for it slamming closed with some ferocity. In trying to figure out where the bolt was hitting on the lower, I tried assembling the pieces with it pushed back into the buffer tube and the bolt held open, but it didn't quite work and I barely got my hand out of the way in time.

Posted: 10/13/2017 9:15:06 PM EDT

[#23]

It does say a Carbine Spring.

I wouldn't recommend anything I wouldn't use .

And the advantage to the Tubbs is the flatwire aspect, just so you know.... it can fit on any AR setup.

Here are some spring weight measurements from David Tubbs... just food for thought.

A2 (old) - 7.6lb closed, 14.5lb open
A2 (new) - 9.1lb closed, 16.7lb open
Tubb Flatwire - 10.5lb closed, 16.3lb open
Tubb .308 Flatwire - 13lb closed, 16.7lb open
SpringCo White ? (standard) - 8.3lb closed, 16.3lb open
SpringCo Red (extra) - 10.5lb closed, 18.4lb open
SpringCo Orange (increased) - 13.9lb closed, 24.8lb open

Posted: 10/13/2017 9:26:44 PM EDT

[#24]

Thanks, I've added that info to my list to read up on more.

Are all carbine springs the same weight, or does that just refer to length? I wasn't sure about that.

Posted: 10/14/2017 8:14:28 AM EDT

[#25]

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Thanks, I've added that info to my list to read up on more.

Are all carbine springs the same weight, or does that just refer to length? I wasn't sure about that.

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Mostly just the length... but there are extra power ones and lighter weight ones... ( as well as standard )

Posted: 10/14/2017 10:46:59 AM EDT

[#26]

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Mostly just the length... but there are extra power ones and lighter weight ones... ( as well as standard )

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Good, you had me second guessing myself on that. :)

I showed the AR-9 to my buddy last night, and he wants me to build him one now. If he decides this weekend to go with a Glock lower, I'll hold onto the PSA kit and build it for him with that, otherwise I'll go about returning it on Monday.

Posted: 10/16/2017 9:32:58 AM EDT

[#27]

The upper/bolt/barrel is on its way back to PSA today. I will say, they were very courteous on my two calls and didn't make me fight in the least for the return, so all should be good in the end. I just hope they either modify the bolt or take down the claim of Colt-style lower compatibility so others don't get similarly tripped up.

Posted: 10/28/2017 12:51:25 PM EDT

[#28]

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What buffer spring ?.... I have found the 9MM blowback Colt pattern to be VERY tolerant of HyWt buffers and HyWt springs .... I even had it running with a Sprinco .308 carbine spring and 10oz buffer.... but with that setup, all the 10oz and Sprinco did was move the recoil to the muzzle end ... lol... the muzzle dip from the very HyWt setup was counter productive, and boy howdy would that setup slam closed.

FYI.... I looks like you could use the Tubbs .308 spring if desired... It has more spring weight when the BCG is closed ( where you want it , to help with the BnB ) and normal spring weight for cycling.

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Revisiting this, rather than starting (or searching for) a new thread. I've looked at the Blitzkrieg buffers a few times and was curious what you thought of their recommended spring list for short barrels such as my 4.5"?

https://www.blitzkriegcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RB5007

SPRINCO Blue 223 Enhanced Power - 3.5"-6" barrel unsuppressed or suppressed
SPRINCO White 223 Standard Power - 3.5"-5" barrel on softer running guns
SPRINCO Yellow 223 Reduced Power - 3.5"-5" barrel - very soft running guns unsuppressed
JP 223 Carbine Ground & Polished Spring - same as Sprinco Blue (quietest spring)

They seem to feel the 308 springs are best suited to mid-length and longer barrels, which are going to transmit more force back through the bolt. Are you in favor of the 308 spring across the board? Some of the different preferences may be attributed to the nature of the different buffers and the characteristics of the different spring types.

Posted: 10/29/2017 5:52:52 PM EDT

[#29]

op, what you're missing here is simple. since the mid 80's and into the 90's there were two style of 9mm ar platforms. there was colt (the standard) and there was olympic (non standard and had an ejector mounted on a pin in the upper). olympic was the only company who went the "non colt way".

somewhere along the way colt started ramping their bolts to prevent fcg pin breakage and the egging of fcg holes.

about 10 years ago (or so) a couple of other companies started making lowers that would accept cheaper more available glock magazines, they used the exact same bolt EXCEPT the bottom area had to be milled just a hair thinner to fit between glock feed lips. until about 2 years ago companies were still making "colt" bolts as there were only 2 or 3 manufactures of glock lowers (and their prices where high around $300 when you could find them).

today we have lots of people offering glock lowers and only a few offering colt lower. now everyone (most, but with a few exceptions) is selling "glock", "hybrid" bolts.

unless some new fangled design has come out in the past month or so (that i haven't seen) ANY in spec "glock" / "hybrid" bolt should work with any in spec "colt" or "glock" lower.

now it is very possible to have a bolt that is out of spec, or a lower that is out of spec, or a feed ramp that is out of spec, and any combination of those is possible. but until something changes in the industry "colt" bolt is a colt only bolt, and a "glock" or "hybrid" can be used for either.

hopefully this is clear as mud for you now. this is one of the very few complaints i have had with PSA as their "hybrid", "can only guarantee fitment with our parts" bullshit is a business "tactic" to get the consumer to buy only their parts. while i wholly understand their reasoning it only confuses the masses of new shooters / builders we try to bring into the fold.

Posted: 10/29/2017 6:01:21 PM EDT

[#30]

In all seriousness, I do appreciate the history lesson (I knew the end result of it, but not necessarily how we arrived there), but I don't see what you're correcting that I wasn't clear on previously. Specifics might help.

I'm well aware that a hybrid bolt should work with both Colt and Glock lowers. That's why I was surprised when: a) PSA's didn't, and b) they couldn't provide any evidence that it ever did work on anything but their own, now discontinued, setup.

I replaced it with a Spinta bolt, and that clears the Colt feed ramp just fine. It seems highly unlikely that the lower was the problem.

Posted: 11/1/2017 4:06:52 PM EDT

[#31]

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In all seriousness, I do appreciate the history lesson (I knew the end result of it, but not necessarily how we arrived there), but I don't see what you're correcting that I wasn't clear on previously. Specifics might help.

I'm well aware that a hybrid bolt should work with both Colt and Glock lowers. That's why I was surprised when: a) PSA's didn't, and b) they couldn't provide any evidence that it ever did work on anything but their own, now discontinued, setup.

I replaced it with a Spinta bolt, and that clears the Colt feed ramp just fine. It seems highly unlikely that the lower was the problem.

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what you're not clear on is unless palmetto state armory switch over to an olympic arms style 9mm then their bolt will fit colt 9mm style weapons, if they did the machine work to allow it to fit between glock mag lips then it would fit both colt and glock style builds hence the term "hybrid".

my post indicated you could have 1 of 3 things out of spec one of which being the bolt.

Posted: 11/1/2017 4:16:40 PM EDT

[#32]

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what you're not clear on is unless palmetto state armory switch over to an olympic arms style 9mm then their bolt will fit colt 9mm style weapons, if they did the machine work to allow it to fit between glock mag lips then it would fit both colt and glock style builds hence the term "hybrid".

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what you're not clear on is unless palmetto state armory switch over to an olympic arms style 9mm then their bolt will fit colt 9mm style weapons, if they did the machine work to allow it to fit between glock mag lips then it would fit both colt and glock style builds hence the term "hybrid".

I understand that a hybrid bolt is supposed to work on both Colt and Glock style lowers, and that the difference is supposed to be just the extra machining for the Glock mag, i.e., all should work for Colts and modified should work for both. I'm not sure why you're bringing Olympic Arms into this. Whether or not it's applicable, it isn't the question at hand.

The nature of a hybrid BCG isn't being debated. What I'm saying is, PSA appears to have a proprietary bolt that does not work with normal Colt lowers, due to how far down it extends where the feed ramp is. My guess is, it was designed to work with their now-discontinued Colt lower, as no examples have been turned up yet of it working with any other Colt setup. Unless someone can prove otherwise, it is not a hybrid bolt.

my post indicated you could have 1 of 3 things out of spec one of which being the bolt.

And I'm saying the bolt is the only one that adds up, given everything else I have outlined.

Posted: 11/1/2017 4:45:28 PM EDT

[#33]

And...PSA just sent out an email with the kit I bought ($320 special) now on clearance for $200.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-4-9mm-6-keymod-lightweight-railed-upper-with-fluted-flash-can-hybrid-bcg-ch-516447179.html

Are they jettisoning the whole 9mm line, or just the current 9mm uppers? Maybe they'll replace it with something truly hybrid. ;)

Posted: 11/2/2017 6:51:25 AM EDT

[#34]

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I understand that a hybrid bolt is supposed to work on both Colt and Glock style lowers, and that the difference is supposed to be just the extra machining for the Glock mag, i.e., all should work for Colts and modified should work for both. I'm not sure why you're bringing Olympic Arms into this. Whether or not it's applicable, it isn't the question at hand.

The nature of a hybrid BCG isn't being debated. What I'm saying is, PSA appears to have a proprietary bolt that does not work with normal Colt lowers, due to how far down it extends where the feed ramp is. My guess is, it was designed to work with their now-discontinued Colt lower, as no examples have been turned up yet of it working with any other Colt setup. Unless someone can prove otherwise, it is not a hybrid bolt.

And I'm saying the bolt is the only one that adds up, given everything else I have outlined.

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Quoted:

what you're not clear on is unless palmetto state armory switch over to an olympic arms style 9mm then their bolt will fit colt 9mm style weapons, if they did the machine work to allow it to fit between glock mag lips then it would fit both colt and glock style builds hence the term "hybrid".

I understand that a hybrid bolt is supposed to work on both Colt and Glock style lowers, and that the difference is supposed to be just the extra machining for the Glock mag, i.e., all should work for Colts and modified should work for both. I'm not sure why you're bringing Olympic Arms into this. Whether or not it's applicable, it isn't the question at hand.

The nature of a hybrid BCG isn't being debated. What I'm saying is, PSA appears to have a proprietary bolt that does not work with normal Colt lowers, due to how far down it extends where the feed ramp is. My guess is, it was designed to work with their now-discontinued Colt lower, as no examples have been turned up yet of it working with any other Colt setup. Unless someone can prove otherwise, it is not a hybrid bolt.

my post indicated you could have 1 of 3 things out of spec one of which being the bolt.

And I'm saying the bolt is the only one that adds up, given everything else I have outlined.

i brought up olympic because it is the only common 9mm ar bolt that would not work in a colt lower, and unless psa has switch to that style then any psa 9mm bolt will work for a colt lower (unless it is out of spec). as i do not have your bolt in hand i can not say responsibly that your bolt is out of spec. i gave you what i felt where options to deduce what your issue could be on your own ie; does op have an olympic style bolt? nope, that couldn't be it, is op's lower / feed ramp out of spec? i don't know, is op's bolt out of spec? i don't know. if you have tried a different bolt and it worked than that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the bolt is out of spec (if a different bolt didn't work you would need to look at something else).

my post to you in this thread was a simple history lesson that would also hopefully help guild someone else in your situation into deduction (if you're not a machinist with machinist drawings and measuring tools it's how we figure this shit out).

you are far from the only one to ask about "PSA HYBRID 9mm bolts" and i am certain you will not be the last one to ask. these discussion boards also serve the people next in line with your same question, so while i try to answer your question best i can i also try to word it where it can inform all the next 100 question about "psa hybrid bolts".

Posted: 11/2/2017 6:55:40 AM EDT

[#35]

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Quoted:
And...PSA just sent out an email with the kit I bought ($320 special) now on clearance for $200.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-4-9mm-6-keymod-lightweight-railed-upper-with-fluted-flash-can-hybrid-bcg-ch-516447179.html

Are they jettisoning the whole 9mm line, or just the current 9mm uppers? Maybe they'll replace it with something truly hybrid. ;)

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were all of their 9mm uppers $200?

who knows what they are doing on their sales, i can't keep up with their "pricing schemes". thankfully i missed this sale this go around, i have a big hunting trip coming up the end of this month. at $200 i would have bought one of every style they had.

Posted: 11/2/2017 4:48:22 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:

i brought up olympic because it is the only common 9mm ar bolt that would not work in a colt lower, and unless psa has switch to that style then any psa 9mm bolt will work for a colt lower (unless it is out of spec). as i do not have your bolt in hand i can not say responsibly that your bolt is out of spec. i gave you what i felt where options to deduce what your issue could be on your own ie; does op have an olympic style bolt? nope, that couldn't be it, is op's lower / feed ramp out of spec? i don't know, is op's bolt out of spec? i don't know. if you have tried a different bolt and it worked than that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the bolt is out of spec (if a different bolt didn't work you would need to look at something else).

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Quoted:

i brought up olympic because it is the only common 9mm ar bolt that would not work in a colt lower, and unless psa has switch to that style then any psa 9mm bolt will work for a colt lower (unless it is out of spec). as i do not have your bolt in hand i can not say responsibly that your bolt is out of spec. i gave you what i felt where options to deduce what your issue could be on your own ie; does op have an olympic style bolt? nope, that couldn't be it, is op's lower / feed ramp out of spec? i don't know, is op's bolt out of spec? i don't know. if you have tried a different bolt and it worked than that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the bolt is out of spec (if a different bolt didn't work you would need to look at something else).

That all makes perfect sense, but you led with saying I'm confused on the matter, and none of that contradicts what I have outlined. Even PSA customer support acknowledged the likelihood that the hybrid bolt has only been tested on their Glock lowers, and returning it for inspection would probably just see it be tested on another Glock lower. My question here wasn't why it might or might not work, rather can anyone verify that it does work as stated.

Quoted:

were all of their 9mm uppers $200?

who knows what they are doing on their sales, i can't keep up with their "pricing schemes". thankfully i missed this sale this go around, i have a big hunting trip coming up the end of this month. at $200 i would have bought one of every style they had.

I believe they dropped all of them to that price yesterday. They were generally on sale for $320 before that, probably $400 regular.

Posted: 11/3/2017 10:46:43 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
That all makes perfect sense, but you led with saying I'm confused on the matter, and none of that contradicts what I have outlined. Even PSA customer support acknowledged the likelihood that the hybrid bolt has only been tested on their Glock lowers, and returning it for inspection would probably just see it be tested on another Glock lower. My question here wasn't why it might or might not work, rather can anyone verify that it does work as stated.

I believe they dropped all of them to that price yesterday. They were generally on sale for $320 before that, probably $400 regular.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

i brought up olympic because it is the only common 9mm ar bolt that would not work in a colt lower, and unless psa has switch to that style then any psa 9mm bolt will work for a colt lower (unless it is out of spec). as i do not have your bolt in hand i can not say responsibly that your bolt is out of spec. i gave you what i felt where options to deduce what your issue could be on your own ie; does op have an olympic style bolt? nope, that couldn't be it, is op's lower / feed ramp out of spec? i don't know, is op's bolt out of spec? i don't know. if you have tried a different bolt and it worked than that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the bolt is out of spec (if a different bolt didn't work you would need to look at something else).

That all makes perfect sense, but you led with saying I'm confused on the matter, and none of that contradicts what I have outlined. Even PSA customer support acknowledged the likelihood that the hybrid bolt has only been tested on their Glock lowers, and returning it for inspection would probably just see it be tested on another Glock lower. My question here wasn't why it might or might not work, rather can anyone verify that it does work as stated.

Quoted:

were all of their 9mm uppers $200?

who knows what they are doing on their sales, i can't keep up with their "pricing schemes". thankfully i missed this sale this go around, i have a big hunting trip coming up the end of this month. at $200 i would have bought one of every style they had.

I believe they dropped all of them to that price yesterday. They were generally on sale for $320 before that, probably $400 regular.

1.) from reading the fifth post in this thread i did seem as if you were confused, as in for a glock 9mm ar bolt to work it would have to first be to the "colt spec" (assuming we are discussing "standard" 9mm AR platform and not some sort of olympic style, or jrc style platforms), i am sorry for assuming you were confused after reading that post.

2.) you posted a quote from their site saying it is compatible with their glock lower and their conversion kit. their conversion kit is a colt clone built to colt spec (you can even buy replacement feed ramps and ejectors from the other companies as they are also made to the same exact specs). so if they claim it works with colt spec'ed adapters that they sell one would assume everyone else would read that as "yes it will work with colt style parts" (so long as it itself is an in spec part).

3.) i was building my own when psa was selling them for full price (even their full price was cheap, but i didn't like this or that about their hand guards or whatever). i could build exactly what i wanted for close to their price. at $200 i would not have been able to pass on the deal just simply because i couldn't have bought "non blem" bolt and barrel for $200 shipped.

i hope you get it sorted out pretty quick, 9mm is fun. i have backed away from it for now as i have just got my first .308, it's even more fun, but damn ammo is expensive.

Posted: 11/3/2017 12:14:36 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

1.) from reading the fifth post in this thread i did seem as if you were confused, as in for a glock 9mm ar bolt to work it would have to first be to the "colt spec" (assuming we are discussing "standard" 9mm AR platform and not some sort of olympic style, or jrc style platforms), i am sorry for assuming you were confused after reading that post.

i hope you get it sorted out pretty quick, 9mm is fun.

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Quoted:

1.) from reading the fifth post in this thread i did seem as if you were confused, as in for a glock 9mm ar bolt to work it would have to first be to the "colt spec" (assuming we are discussing "standard" 9mm AR platform and not some sort of olympic style, or jrc style platforms), i am sorry for assuming you were confused after reading that post.

i hope you get it sorted out pretty quick, 9mm is fun.

Did you not read what came after post #5?

There's nothing left to sort out.

2.) you posted a quote from their site saying it is compatible with their glock lower and their conversion kit. their conversion kit is a colt clone built to colt spec (you can even buy replacement feed ramps and ejectors from the other companies as they are also made to the same exact specs). so if they claim it works with colt spec'ed adapters that they sell one would assume everyone else would read that as "yes it will work with colt style parts" (so long as it itself is an in spec part).

Well, now you're adding a whole lot of info that was not available early in the discussion, even from PSA themselves. Nowhere have I seen it stated that their Colt-style lowers were built to Colt's specs. If that's the case, then the question veers toward, what's going on with the bolts they're currently selling? And is it all of them, or only some? The one I received is the same as pictured on their site, so it presumably wasn't an isolated oddball.

Posted: 11/3/2017 11:05:45 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
<snip> If that's the case, then the question veers toward, what's going on with the bolts they're currently selling? And is it all of them, or only some? The one I received is the same as pictured on their site, so it presumably wasn't an isolated oddball.

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i don't know, i haven't bought any 9mm stuff in about 2 months.

Posted: 11/4/2017 4:06:16 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
Are the feed ramps on the lower "replaceable"... or are they permanent ?

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I just realized, I was mistaken about the ramp being permanent. There's an allen set screw at the front of the Spike's lower, between the takedown pin holes. I was looking on the sides and inner magwell, and probably had the upper connected when looking it over, so the set screw was hidden from view.

Posted: 11/18/2017 5:25:27 PM EDT

[#41]

Signification additions to the topic found here:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Spike-s-Colt-mag-lower/15-719107/?r=-1&page=1&anc=7552784#i7552064

Whoever makes the new bolt for PSA appears to have dropped the ball.

Posted: 11/21/2017 10:20:40 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
Signification additions to the topic found here:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Spike-s-Colt-mag-lower/15-719107/?r=-1&page=1&anc=7552784#i7552064

Whoever makes the new bolt for PSA appears to have dropped the ball.

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I can confirm this. My clearance upper won't fit my Colt style PSA lowers. Using my older Hybrid bolt it does.

Measuring between the two bolts shows that the bottom of the bolt (the portion that pushes the rounds from the mag) is about .043" lower in relation to the firing pin hole than the old one.

It interferes with both the feed ramp and BHO. There are basically two options, mill the bolt or file some material off the BHO and feed ramp.

I "THINK" taking the material off the feed ramp and BHO would alleviate some of the trigger reset problems people were having.

Taking material off the bolt is going to be a bit more PITA due to the hardness and my limited tools.

Posted: 11/21/2017 10:55:48 PM EDT

[#43]

Thanks for adding some data to the mix.

Personally, I think I would leave the feed ramp and BHO alone and either modify or replace the bolt. My reasoning is this: You'll probably replace the bolt before you replace the lower, and that would require you to get another likely out-of-spec bolt that drops lower, otherwise you'll have too much gap if shaving down the feed ramp and BHO.

It looks like you're overseas, though, so returning it might be more difficult? I would think a carbide cutting bit on a Dremel will get through any hardness of metal.

Posted: 12/2/2017 1:53:58 PM EDT

[#44]

More info, from the Industry forum:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/Attn-PSA-Customer-Service--New-PSA-9mm-Keymod-upper-with-bcg-has-an-out-of-spec-bolt-carrier/301-285792/

Glad I went a different direction. I have little patience for false claims and/or non-existent testing.

Posted: 1/12/2018 1:22:44 PM EDT

[#45]

Another confirmation of what's pretty well established now:

Recent development, the MAG-AD9 system is not compatible with PSA Hybrid bolts. This is due to the lug which strips a round off of the magazine being .035 of an inch further from center-line as compared to many other bolt systems.

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https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/New-Glock-mag-9mm-AR15-conversion-Stern-Defense/15-720895/?page=4

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - do PSA 9mm Hybrid bolts actually work with Colt-style lowers?

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