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Posted: 1/5/2012 4:15:34 PM EDT
Would it be possible for a 300BLK load to be used as a long distance rifle? What would the distance capabilities be?
May be an ignorant question, but thought it might make a great sniper/long distance gun to work with because the parts would be interchangeable with my .556. Would it be better at long distance? 
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Posted: 1/5/2012 4:27:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Would it be possible for a 300BLK load to be used as a long distance rifle? What would the distance capabilities be? May be an ignorant question, but thought it might make a great sniper/long distance gun to work with because the parts would be interchangeable with my .556. Would it be better at long distance? 200 to 300 meters max 100 200 meters optimum |
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Posted: 1/5/2012 4:28:34 PM EDT
[#2]
i may be wrong but you are looking at 200-250 yard max most likely and it drops fast after that.
so i would say no |
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Posted: 1/5/2012 4:37:37 PM EDT
[#3]
From what I've read, a 20" barrel with 125gr off the shelf ammo should produce ballistics similar to the reduced recoil .308 loadings in the same bullet weight
If you were zeroed for 150 yds, your point blank range is gonna be around 200yds 300blk was never intended as a long range target round though I understand that 7.62x40 WT is much more capable in the range department, but you're still not going to have anything near what a .308, could offer. |
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Posted: 1/5/2012 4:48:43 PM EDT
[#4]
I will go ahead and state my bias. I LOVE the .300blk. But it is not a long range round. 300yds is pushing it with a heavy subsonic, and then you had better know your drop. with light subsonics it would be a little easier but still you get a lot of drop
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Posted: 1/5/2012 5:11:55 PM EDT
[#5]
As stated previously, long range and 300 BLK don't really go together.
For supersonics, the 125g OTM at 2300 (easily achievable in a 20" barrel): Zeroed at 100M: 50M: .67 high, 2172fps, 1309ft/lb 100M: 0, 2052fps, 1169ft/lb 200M: 7.8 low, 1825fps, 924ft/lb 300M: 26 low, 1617fps, 726ft/lb 400M: 57 low, 1431fps, 568ft/lb Zeroed at 150M (same fps/energy, obviously): 50M: .95 high 100M: 1.16 high 200M: 4.6 low 300M: 20.6 low 400M: 50.5 low Zeroed at 200M (same FPS/energy, obviously): 50M: 2.63 high 100M: 3.91 high 200M: 0 300M: 14.4 low 400M: 42 low Of all these, I prefer the trajectory of the 150M zero. I'm not a fan of the 200M zero, having to go 2.5 at 50 to almost 4 inches high at 100. |
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Posted: 1/5/2012 5:16:17 PM EDT
[#6]
No, 5.56 is better than 300 BLK for everything except in an SBR with a suppressor.
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Posted: 1/6/2012 2:17:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
No, 5.56 is better than 300 BLK for everything except in an SBR with a suppressor. How would you define everything? Is it better in barrier penetration? Is it better in terminal ballistics? Is it better at switching between subsonic and supersonic? Is it quieter in barrels under 20 inches? I love my 5.56 but if it was better for everything I don't think the blackout would be doing so well. |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 2:41:26 AM EDT
[#8]
I would disagree with most that rounds like the 300 BLK are not for long range. They may not be IDEAL for long range in a typical application, but if you know your drop and understand the limitations, it can VERY effectively be used at that distance - in the proper application.
Think of it this way: What is the drop of a .338 Lapua Magnum at 1000 yards? The factory load has dropped 137" at that distance yet nobody will argue that it is perfectly OK to shoot this cartridge at those distances. The 300 BLK at 250 yards, using the 240 SMK at 980 fps will have dropped 119" (less than the Lapua, I know, but it is close enough for our discussion), so arguably it should be perfectly OK to shoot at those distances At longer distances, you may not be able to strike a moving man-size target (or a deer) but you might still find use in other roles - vehicles can be disabled, a parked car (hood) is a very manageable target at 500 yards... it just depends on your application. If you wanted to dissuade a group of unwelcome visitors from proceeding further, it would be feasible to fire a burst of suppressed 240 SMK SS loads, which would land in a nice spread, while the shooters location will be difficult to discern. Hogs seem to be rather displeased when you do this.... other "critters" might be similarly discouraged... Just have to understand how to use it and then make the most of it... |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 7:33:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Think of it this way: What is the drop of a .338 Lapua Magnum at 1000 yards? The factory load has dropped 137" at that distance yet nobody will argue that it is perfectly OK to shoot this cartridge at those distances. The 300 BLK at 250 yards, using the 240 SMK at 980 fps will have dropped 119" (less than the Lapua, I know, but it is close enough for our discussion), so arguably it should be perfectly OK to shoot at those distances The only problem I see with this is to correct for that drop it would take ~14 (give or take) MOA of elevation in the .338 Lapua at 1000 yards, but it would take ~30 MOA of elevation in the 300 BLK at 250 yards. Doesn't look like its so equivalent to me. I'd be interested to know how far out you can get with the 300 BLK with ~14 MOA of elevation adjustment. I totally agree with your real world applications though. |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 9:19:42 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I would disagree with most that rounds like the 300 BLK are not for long range. They may not be IDEAL for long range in a typical application, but if you know your drop and understand the limitations, it can VERY effectively be used at that distance - in the proper application. .. It's not just the drop (which is excessive) it's the fact the round will go transonic at such relatively close ranges. While the bullets have a better BC than 7.62x39 their lower velocity give them roughly the same range limitations. BTW knowing the drop is one thing, the trick is knowing the distance to target with enough precision to ensure a hit. For a 125gr OTM @ 2300fps (the MV from a 20" barrel quoted above) The drop between 500y and 550y is over 30" - that's a complete miss if you are off as little as 50y at what is a 'medium' distance. Want to go much further? You're going transonic just past 600y (26.5moa) Now compare that to the factory 110gr OTM @2600fps from a 16" barrel 6.8 SPC Drop difference is 22" at 500/550y almost a foot less than the .300 and with a COM shot on a standard E siloughet you still make the hit. Transonic isn't an issue till your target is around 800y. (18.5) Remember that is comparing a .300 BLK RIFLE (20") to a 6.8 SPC CARBINE (16"). With .300 BLK we have to reduce what 'long range' is to a max of 600-650y. Range estimation must be very accurate and you're going to have to make sure you spend the $$ on optics or at least a LaRue SPR mount with the built in +10moa because the shooter will need to crank that scope some 26.5moa at 600y. I just don't see the .300BLK being a viable 'long range' (500-800y) round anywhere other than a KD range. Even then it will take a skilled shooter. |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 9:25:00 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I'd be interested to know how far out you can get with the 300 BLK with ~14 MOA of elevation adjustment. About 430y- assuming sea level, 125gr OTM from a 20" barrel (2300fps), and zero is at 100y from an AR (2.6" HOB). |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 9:35:39 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
No, 5.56 is better than 300 BLK for everything except in an SBR with a suppressor. How would you define everything? Is it better in barrier penetration? Is it better in terminal ballistics? Is it better at switching between subsonic and supersonic? Is it quieter in barrels under 20 inches? I love my 5.56 but if it was better for everything I don't think the blackout would be doing so well. I am not certain about barrier penetration, so I wont comment on the 300 whisper's ability to penetrate barriers. The limited barrier penetration of the 5.56 can be greatly advanced by using the correct bullet. Terminal ballistics? I will take the 5.56 over a 7.62x39 which is where the 300 is at. As I said the 300 is great in a short barrel with a can. As for the popularity, mostly hype(IMO) which is what seems to drive the gun industry. |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 9:38:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I would disagree with most that rounds like the 300 BLK are not for long range. They may not be IDEAL for long range in a typical application, but if you know your drop and understand the limitations, it can VERY effectively be used at that distance - in the proper application. Think of it this way: What is the drop of a .338 Lapua Magnum at 1000 yards? The factory load has dropped 137" at that distance yet nobody will argue that it is perfectly OK to shoot this cartridge at those distances. The 300 BLK at 250 yards, using the 240 SMK at 980 fps will have dropped 119" (less than the Lapua, I know, but it is close enough for our discussion), so arguably it should be perfectly OK to shoot at those distances At longer distances, you may not be able to strike a moving man-size target (or a deer) but you might still find use in other roles - vehicles can be disabled, a parked car (hood) is a very manageable target at 500 yards... it just depends on your application. If you wanted to dissuade a group of unwelcome visitors from proceeding further, it would be feasible to fire a burst of suppressed 240 SMK SS loads, which would land in a nice spread, while the shooters location will be difficult to discern. Hogs seem to be rather displeased when you do this.... other "critters" might be similarly discouraged... Just have to understand how to use it and then make the most of it... 119" at 250 yards? What does this have to do with shooting long range? How is that bullet going to do against a car at 500 yards if it is dropping 119' at 250 its basically just falling out of the sky at 500. |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 9:41:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Terminal ballistics? I will take the 5.56 over a 7.62x39 which is where the 300 is at. . Not quite. The 110gr VMAX load in the .300 performs BETTER than the 75gr OTM load in the 5.56, with about the same range for fragmentation. The .300's TSX also produces a larger hole with better penetration than the 5.56 loads - though the 5.56 has more range for expansion from what I recall. |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 9:43:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd be interested to know how far out you can get with the 300 BLK with ~14 MOA of elevation adjustment. About 430y- assuming sea level, 125gr OTM from a 20" barrel (2300fps), and zero is at 100y from an AR (2.6" HOB). So about 250 fps slower than a 30/30, an antiquated hold over from a time when combustion engines were revolutionary. The practical range for a 30/30 when deer hunting is around 250 yards. Its really hard for me to get hot and bothered over these types of numbers. |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 9:47:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Think of it this way: What is the drop of a .338 Lapua Magnum at 1000 yards? The factory load has dropped 137" at that distance yet nobody will argue that it is perfectly OK to shoot this cartridge at those distances. The 300 BLK at 250 yards, using the 240 SMK at 980 fps will have dropped 119" (less than the Lapua, I know, but it is close enough for our discussion), so arguably it should be perfectly OK to shoot at those distances ... A 1000y shot requires great skill and you take more time to get everthing 'right'. At 250y that is considered withing 'typical combat distances' and you need to be making the shot much much faster - you won't have the time to lase the target to get range and set your scope for almost 10' of drop - not to mention most people don't use expensive scopes with 100moa worth of adjustment for a mere 250y shot. |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 11:55:18 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I would disagree with most that rounds like the 300 BLK are not for long range. They may not be IDEAL for long range in a typical application, but if you know your drop and understand the limitations, it can VERY effectively be used at that distance - in the proper application. Think of it this way: What is the drop of a .338 Lapua Magnum at 1000 yards? The factory load has dropped 137" at that distance yet nobody will argue that it is perfectly OK to shoot this cartridge at those distances. The 300 BLK at 250 yards, using the 240 SMK at 980 fps will have dropped 119" (less than the Lapua, I know, but it is close enough for our discussion), so arguably it should be perfectly OK to shoot at those distances At longer distances, you may not be able to strike a moving man-size target (or a deer) but you might still find use in other roles - vehicles can be disabled, a parked car (hood) is a very manageable target at 500 yards... it just depends on your application. If you wanted to dissuade a group of unwelcome visitors from proceeding further, it would be feasible to fire a burst of suppressed 240 SMK SS loads, which would land in a nice spread, while the shooters location will be difficult to discern. Hogs seem to be rather displeased when you do this.... other "critters" might be similarly discouraged... Just have to understand how to use it and then make the most of it... Its not about inches of drop, its about angular drop. 137" @1000yd is about 13 MOA. 119" @250 is around 45.5 MOA. Literally over 3x as much elevation correction as far as scope adjustments go. Subsonics are hell on drop beyond 150yd, regardless of what caliber. The only subsonics that I would use to kill something past 200 with would be .50 750gr amaxs. Or 750-800gr solids in downloaded 50bmg or 50 thumper/ 510 whisper and the like. Drop is still shitty, but at least the bullet is big enough and aerodynamic enough to have substantial energy, even out as far as 400-500yd. A subsonic 30 cal that has traveled over 300yd isn't going to do much to a vehicle. It will cause damage but not much. If you want long range AND the ar15, 6.5 grendel is the ticket. Eta: suppressed subsonics do very little in the way of scaring or suppressing people. I remember 1 account of a sniper in vietnam using a silenced smg in a firefight. Another person with him would fire bursts of unsuppressed rifle fire and the enemy would dive for cover. The sniper would shoot suppressed smg bursts and the nva often didn't respond at all, like they didn't know they were being shot at. Suppressed supersonic rounds are another story. You still get the crack overhead, without them being able to hear too precisely where it came from. |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 9:14:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would disagree with most that rounds like the 300 BLK are not for long range. They may not be IDEAL for long range in a typical application, but if you know your drop and understand the limitations, it can VERY effectively be used at that distance - in the proper application. .. It's not just the drop (which is excessive) it's the fact the round will go transonic at such relatively close ranges. While the bullets have a better BC than 7.62x39 their lower velocity give them roughly the same range limitations. BTW knowing the drop is one thing, the trick is knowing the distance to target with enough precision to ensure a hit. For a 125gr OTM @ 2300fps (the MV from a 20" barrel quoted above) The drop between 500y and 550y is over 30" - that's a complete miss if you are off as little as 50y at what is a 'medium' distance. Want to go much further? You're going transonic just past 600y (26.5moa) Now compare that to the factory 110gr OTM @2600fps from a 16" barrel 6.8 SPC Drop difference is 22" at 500/550y almost a foot less than the .300 and with a COM shot on a standard E siloughet you still make the hit. Transonic isn't an issue till your target is around 800y. (18.5) Remember that is comparing a .300 BLK RIFLE (20") to a 6.8 SPC CARBINE (16"). With .300 BLK we have to reduce what 'long range' is to a max of 600-650y. Range estimation must be very accurate and you're going to have to make sure you spend the $$ on optics or at least a LaRue SPR mount with the built in +10moa because the shooter will need to crank that scope some 26.5moa at 600y. I just don't see the .300BLK being a viable 'long range' (500-800y) round anywhere other than a KD range. Even then it will take a skilled shooter. I posted the data on the 125 OTMs above, and I totally agree with Forest. I see the 300 BLK as a 400yd cartridge. 45-50 inches of drop (at 400 yards) is pretty easy to manage. If I need to go farther than that, my solution is a 300 Win Mag. If you're looking for a single rifle to do it all from 0-600+, the 6.8 is a pretty difficult cartridge to beat. ETA: I'm working up some .224 80g A-Max sabots for the 300 BLK. No clue what performance I'll get, but I'll post results when complete. |
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