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Posted: 11/29/2018 5:31:51 PM EDT
Took my PA10 Gen 2 with my newly installed Superlative Arms Adj. Bleed Off GB to the range today. After a total of 8 shots, my adjustment screw was no longer in my gas block.
I started the day with the GB set at wide open (which is first - Fully Closed Clock Wise, Then 4.5 revolutions CCW.) After 3 shots, I adjusted the GB 3 Full CCW Turns (this starts the bleed off. So excess gas is vented at the gas block.) After 3 more shots, I adjusted the GB 7 Full CCW Turns. 2 more uneventful shots, then I had a Failure to Feed. The round hung up and I ejected it and this is what it looked like. 
So, thinking it's still over gassed, I adjusted the GB 5 more Full CCW Turns. One round One shot - Bolt did not lock back. Repeat with one round - Bolt did not lock back. So... I was going to adjust CW, but there was no adjustment screw. Gone. I thought it was not possible to unscrew the adj screw out passed the end. I thought these could be turned out like 31 times? And I also thought that I wasn't able to turn the screw out past the end. I thought there was some kind of retainer? 
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Posted: 11/29/2018 5:54:15 PM EDT
[#1]
That sucks. I have had issues with my slr gasblock on my PA10. The screw on mine broke in half, I have since replaced it. Seems to be working but still having ejection problems.
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Posted: 11/30/2018 11:53:56 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That sucks. I have had issues with my slr gasblock on my PA10. The screw on mine broke in half, I have since replaced it. Seems to be working but still having ejection problems. I reached out to Superlative ARMS, and am scheduled for a phone consult this afternoon. I thought there was some kind of retainer to keep the screw from backing all the way out? Hoping they get me fixed up. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 2:43:27 PM EDT
[#3]
How freakin long is that screw that you were able to back it out almost 20 full revolutions and it still had threads in the hole?
What's the point in backing it out further and further if it's already wide open? |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 3:31:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How freakin long is that screw that you were able to back it out almost 20 full revolutions and it still had threads in the hole? What's the point in backing it out further and further if it's already wide open? 
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Posted: 11/30/2018 3:41:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Mine didn't click. The instructions I referenced stated full revolutions. I assumed they were very fine threads. I read somewhere that full bleed off was something like 31 full turns CCW.
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Posted: 11/30/2018 3:49:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
2 more uneventful shots, then I had a Failure to Feed. The round hung up and I ejected it and this is what it looked like. [/size=4] https://i.imgur.com/XqukX3Ub.jpg [size=4] So, thinking it's still over gassed, I adjusted the GB 5 more Full CCW Turns. That is where you were supposed to stop and start turning it CW... Quoted:
I read somewhere that full bleed off was something like 31 full turns CCW. Closed to 4 1/4 turns (0-17 clicks) is restriction 4 1/2 turns (18 clicks from bottom) is fully open (like a standard gas block) 4 3/4 - 8 turns (19-32 clicks) from bottom is bleed off Here's the screw 32 clicks out. 
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Posted: 11/30/2018 4:07:28 PM EDT
[#7]
Okay, this is very helpful! Thank you. So, yes. I believe that is the malfunction I had. The bolt tried to ride over a round that did not chamber. Now I see why the directions say to only load one round at a time. I would have seen the bolt NOT locked back. And I wouldn't have damaged that round.
So, why did the screw fall out? I turned it CCW as described above, took a shot, then noticed the screw was MIA. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 4:17:16 PM EDT
[#8]
Is the bleed off function as advantageous if you're not using a can?
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Posted: 11/30/2018 5:03:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, why did the screw fall out? I turned it CCW as described above, took a shot, then noticed the screw was MIA.
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Posted: 11/30/2018 5:16:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Is there any explanation for why the bleed off is needed or what it accomplishes? I've been all over their website and it's all just a bunch of marketing speak with no explanation of why. What's the advantage over say an SLR? Sure seems like people are having a lot tougher time with these than just starting with another block fully closed, adjusting slowly one round at a time until it locks back positively. Am I wrong? Someone explain it like I'm a fifth grader, cause something is over my head here.
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Posted: 11/30/2018 5:18:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there any explanation for why the bleed off is needed or what it accomplishes? I've been all over their website and it's all just a bunch of marketing speak with no explanation of why. What's the advantage over say an SLR? Sure seems like people are having a lot tougher time with these than just starting with another block fully closed, adjusting slowly one round at a time until it locks back positively. Am I wrong? Someone explain it like I'm a fifth grader, cause something is over my head here. Venting excess gas instead of trying to restrict it with a screw that will eventually erode. Several piston systems have a method to vent excess gas instead of trying to restrict it (POF, early Sig MCX, etc.) |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 5:47:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just two ways of accomplishing the same thing. Venting excess gas instead of trying to restrict it with a screw that will eventually erode. Several piston systems have a method to vent excess gas instead of trying to restrict it (POF, early Sig MCX, etc.) |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 5:51:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Won't the bleeder screw erode as well, since the same hot gases are moving past it? I'm not sure if there is any real advantage over a standard adjustable gas block. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 5:56:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe the theory is that it's less gas being vented through the orifice, vs 100% of the volume to cycle the action. I'm not sure if there is any real advantage over a standard adjustable gas block. I should probably put it out there that I'm in no way attempting to say it's bad or wrong or won't work, etc. I genuinely didn't know the difference in function vs a "regular" adjustable. I have two of the older Syracs on my .308 and .300 blackout, and am planning an adjustable (right now probably SLR) for my 6.5 creedmoor. I figure anything in the gas system (block, tube, key, etc) is already eventually going to wear/erode to where it needs replaced, so that's not a concern. I was wondering how the final setting to where the screw was opened was retained, as my syracs have a really positive click system in place. But the additional photos showing one adjusted well outward puts that to rest, looks like a good positive click setup as well. That 20% mil discount sure does look attractive too, maybe I'll give one a swing and see what happens. Thanks for taking the time to explain the theory behind it. 
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Posted: 11/30/2018 6:23:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe the theory is that it's less gas being vented through the orifice, vs 100% of the volume to cycle the action. I'm not sure if there is any real advantage over a standard adjustable gas block. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Won't the bleeder screw erode as well, since the same hot gases are moving past it? I'm not sure if there is any real advantage over a standard adjustable gas block. According to the SA website, the screw does not come in contact with the gas. I also believe they say the screw is captive. Although OP did back it WAY out. :D |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 7:08:15 PM EDT
[#16]
As it seems that "clicks" was mistaken for revolutions, but the screw is said to be captive anyway (presumably to mitigate this possibility), perhaps the OP could simply contact the manufacturer, explain the situation and work out something that actually remedies the situation - a new screw perhaps, or exchange for one that does have the captive screw.
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Posted: 11/30/2018 7:58:16 PM EDT
[#17]
I’ve attempted contact with Superlative Arms. I received an email back stating a tech would like to “discuss my build.” I’ve been playing phone tag all day. I’ll attempt again next week.
According to SA, the gas adjustment screw..... Although it is removable, we have added a safety mechanism, which stops you from unintentionally backing the screw all the way out. I did not intentionally back the screw all the way out. Also, mine never had clicks, which tells me I had a problem from the get go. |
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Posted: 11/30/2018 9:06:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Do you remember if the adjustment screw had groves milled into it like the example pic posted above? The pic you posted looks to show your detent correctly in place in the block.
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Posted: 11/30/2018 10:06:07 PM EDT
[#19]
I really don't recall if my screw had groves or not. It does seem strange that my retaining ball is still in place. Although, SA does indicate it is possible to remove the screw, just not unintentionally.
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Posted: 12/1/2018 3:49:38 AM EDT
[#20]
4 1/2 turns goes from closed to fully open. You "vented" the screw so much it ended up being a flyer. The bleed off function would keep the internal gun cleaner and create less wear on your bolt and barrel. Receiver too I assume. Gas will still eat away at the screw, but differently. In either fashion the screw could then be readjusted as it decayed(if it ever actually does). On the flip side of the coin, the screw is less secure, but fine, and you'll lose bullet velocity(not too much). Plus gas could possibly stain or eat away at a handguard over time.
Personally I like .308 ejection at 3 o'clock and call it good. I then know it should cycle that ammo cold, hot, clean, dirty, wet, or just a bit horny. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 8:01:41 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there any explanation for why the bleed off is needed or what it accomplishes? I've been all over their website and it's all just a bunch of marketing speak with no explanation of why. What's the advantage over say an SLR? Sure seems like people are having a lot tougher time with these than just starting with another block fully closed, adjusting slowly one round at a time until it locks back positively. Am I wrong? Someone explain it like I'm a fifth grader, cause something is over my head here. https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=UwHA9pvkgYA |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 9:49:55 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here is what I found. It all makes sense when you think about the physics of it.... https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=UwHA9pvkgYA |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 10:24:14 AM EDT
[#23]
I installed one on my GII.
I can tell you that it did "click" as I turned the screw with the really long allen wrench. I can tell you that (on mine) I screwed it all the way out past where it would click - lucky to catch that, I thought at the time) and it never stopped working. So, it might be venting, as advertised/designed but the GII continues to function no matter how much gas the screw vents. Not an issue for me. The recoil, as the rifle is set up, is less than my .300 BO carbine. Really nice to be able to put my nose on the charging handle and shoot a .308 that is so close to .223 recoil. After shooting the .300 BO I was afraid the .308 would be a shoulder bruiser (coumadin for life = even the darn .223's put a raspberry on my shoulder after a magazine or two, sometimes.) I also installed one on my last 18" .223 build. Totally different experience. It has a very narrow two or three click adjustment range right at 4 turns out. On click in/out it works. Go more than one click in/out from that "sweet spot" and it begins to short stroke. No idea what is different about the two gas blocks (or the two rifles). Something is hit or miss, I don't know what. Good luck OP. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 10:27:24 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a big advantage, especially suppressed. SA's block vents the gas forward of the block instead of thru the bbl - receiver - shooters face. My suppressed 11.5 was uncomfortable to shoot it was so gassy. After adding the SA block it's night and day, less recoil too. According to the SA website, the screw does not come in contact with the gas. I also believe they say the screw is captive. Although OP did back it WAY out. :D It's not that less gas is venting in the receiver because you are restricting or venting it elsewhere, it's that you are delaying the unlocking of the bolt and slowing the carrier velocity by reducing and delaying the pressure curve of the gas entering the carrier. This give the gas in the bore more time to exit through the suppressor before the bolt unlocks. So the improvement is two-fold, but the biggest effect on "gassy-ness" is unlock timing. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 11:54:12 AM EDT
[#25]
So here is an excellent video from mbell556. it’s kind of long, but in the first 8 minutes he takes the screw all the way out. He demonstrates that it is somewhat difficult to do, because the detent must be pressed in while turning the screw out. Also, I can hear distinct clicks while he turns his screw.
I realize I made a mistake in thinking that because it takes 4.5 full revolutions to go from a fully closed GB to a wide open GB, then each of the 31 settings of increasing bleed off must also be full revolutions. But now I realize I should have been counting clicks as I opened the gas block to allow more and more gas to vent out the bleed off valve. Still not sure why my screw wasn’t retained. I didn’t feel any resistance as I continued to turn it CCW. Hopefully, SA will get me squared away next week. Maybe all I need is a replacement screw? [youtube]0y02vdDzRUk#fauxfullscreen[/youtube] |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 12:07:21 PM EDT
[#26]
I bet the firing forces caused your detent to jump out of the way of the screw and the gas just blew it out the end.
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Posted: 12/1/2018 12:40:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That’s a bummer you had a screw break. Were you able to replace / repair on your own, or did you have to send it back to SLR? I reached out to Superlative ARMS, and am scheduled for a phone consult this afternoon. I thought there was some kind of retainer to keep the screw from backing all the way out? Hoping they get me fixed up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That sucks. I have had issues with my slr gasblock on my PA10. The screw on mine broke in half, I have since replaced it. Seems to be working but still having ejection problems. I reached out to Superlative ARMS, and am scheduled for a phone consult this afternoon. I thought there was some kind of retainer to keep the screw from backing all the way out? Hoping they get me fixed up. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 1:41:40 PM EDT
[#28]
The detent is designed to stop you from backing the screw out completely. I don’t think it’s designed to hold the screw in the gas block on its own. Sounds like you backed it out all the way and the firing caused it to push the screw out overcoming the detent. If it was screwed in and being held by the threads it probably wouldn’t have happened.
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Posted: 12/1/2018 1:54:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I got a replacement that another member who bought the gas block orginaly secured. SLR blew me off in their own forum here. Will never buy any of their products again, used or new. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 1:59:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The detent is designed to stop you from backing the screw out completely. I don’t think it’s designed to hold the screw in the gas block on its own. Sounds like you backed it out all the way and the firing caused it to push the screw out overcoming the detent. If it was screwed in and being held by the threads it probably wouldn’t have happened. And, why didn’t my screw click when turning? was it fubar from the start? I still take responsibility for not knowing all there was to know, for not doing a little more bench testing prior to range trip, and for turning the screw too far CCW. I still appreciate all the replies! Thanks to veryone. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 2:00:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SLR blew me off in their own forum here. Will never buy any of their products again, used or new. 
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Posted: 12/1/2018 2:17:44 PM EDT
[#32]
I have the piston version of the SA gas block on a 7.5 barrel. Have not had a chance to go to the range with it but the bleed off feature was appealing in my set of circumstances.
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Posted: 12/1/2018 3:07:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@mbell your link attempts to take me to the metadata editor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Here is what I found. It all makes sense when you think about the physics of it.... https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=UwHA9pvkgYA This should do the trick:  Superlative Arms DI Adjustable Gas Block Field Test: Bleed-off vs Restriction vs Non-adjustable |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 9:17:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryFantastic video, Mbell. I wish I would have watched it prior to my range trip. 
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Posted: 12/1/2018 10:21:02 PM EDT
[#35]
thanks @MBell.
it's a shame he had that stupid music playing WHILE he was giving instructions. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 10:48:20 PM EDT
[#36]
I cant help but wonder how far that screw went...
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Posted: 12/2/2018 12:46:18 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I cant help but wonder how far that screw went... 
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Posted: 12/2/2018 7:15:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Why bleed off excess gas? Why not send it behind the projectile?
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Posted: 12/2/2018 7:55:32 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why bleed off excess gas? Why not send it behind the projectile? With a piston system, the bleed-off pluses are much more significant. They're much less so with a DI setup. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 8:37:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why bleed off excess gas? Why not send it behind the projectile? |
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Posted: 12/6/2018 9:50:32 AM EDT
[#41]
It took a little back and forth, but Superlative Arms is sending a replacement adjustment screw. Also, the tech spent quite a bit of time on the phone further explaining the system, etc. I will report back when I get the screw installed and get to the range.
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Posted: 12/7/2018 8:21:25 AM EDT
[#42]
The only thing that matters is how much gas is available to function the rifle, down the gas tube. The rifle doesn't give a fuck about anything else. It's marketing hype.
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Posted: 12/8/2018 9:13:44 PM EDT
[#43]
I received and installed my replacement screw today. The screw now has definite clicks, 4 per each full rotation. I can say with certainty that I over torqued the screw and backed it out too far.
Huge shout out to Superlative Arms customer service for supporting me. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 11:29:16 PM EDT
[#44]
Good to hear. Let us know how it goes when you can shoot.
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Posted: 12/11/2018 4:26:32 PM EDT
[#45]
UPDATE...
I had a great range outing yesterday. I started with the SA bleed off adjustable Gas Block set at 4 1/2 turns out from fully closed. This is also known as 18 clicks out from fully closed. This runs the gas port wide open. Ejection was north of one o'clock at this setting. I then adjusted the screw one complete revolution CCW (4 clicks.) I loaded 4 rounds into the mag and shot them - mainly noting ejection pattern and if the bolt locked back on an empty magazine. I did this six separate times. One complete CCW revolution of the Adj. screw (4 clicks.) Load and shoot 4 rounds. Repeat. With each full CCW turn of the adj. screw, my brass ejection pattern would continue to land further and further towards the 4 o'clock position, which I was striving to achieve. After the sixth full CCW turn of the adj. screw, the bolt failed to lock back after the last round. This is 42 clicks out from CLOSED. (Also, this is 24 clicks CCW from Wide Open gas.) I then turned the Adj. screw CW 2 clicks. I shot one round. The bolt Failed to lock back. I then turned the Adj. Screw CW 2 clicks. The bolt locked back on an empty mag. I turned the screw CW one additional click for peace of mind. The rifle ran flawlessly and ejected the brass at four o'clock. So the adj. screw is set at 37 clicks CCW from Closed. (or 19 clicks from Gas Wide Open.)  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 5:47:44 AM EDT
[#46]
Nice, glad you got it where you wanted it.
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