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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Best AR brand? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 4/27/2009 1:09:17 PM EDT

[#1]

Colt
Charles Daly
Daniel Defense
KAC
LMT
LWRC
Noveske
Sabre Defence
ParaUSA (TTR Z-M Weapons type)

You could also mix and match the uppers and lowers as you wish (if available separately, except for the TTR), you just push two takedown pins, don't have to customize it.

LaRue Stealth uppers could also go on any lower half of your choice.

(In no particular order)

Posted: 4/27/2009 1:52:08 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Colt/FN
LMT
Larue
LWRC
Noveske
Defensive Edge
BCM
Charles Daly
Bushmaster
S&W
CMMG
RRA
DPMS
Stag

no sabre on there? id say theyre up with LMT/colt or at minimum above the bushy

Posted: 4/27/2009 3:04:34 PM EDT

[#3]

Out of the box, no mods allowed?

Patriot Ordinance Factory.

Posted: 4/27/2009 4:16:39 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Colt/FN
...
Stag

no sabre on there? id say theyre up with LMT/colt or at minimum above the bushy

I've heard a little here and there of them- I'd probably slap them under Noveske, just because I've heard they make a lot of really accurate guns for competition use-

edited to make a little more sense and to fix my spelling-

Posted: 4/27/2009 4:32:04 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Colt/FN
LMT
Larue
LWRC
Noveske
Defensive Edge
BCM
Charles Daly
Bushmaster
S&W
CMMG
RRA
DPMS
Stag

In that order?

Posted: 4/28/2009 7:58:09 AM EDT

[#6]

more or less- I've only fired/handled/seen a number of them so some of my knowledge goes to what men like Pat Rogers/Travis Haley/Chris Costa/Larry Vickers run and use and what they say-

Don't get me wrong any of those on the list will fill the role that 99% of arfcom members will require of it- Nothing wrong with having an Oly Arms or Stag, just that the ones I've handled were sloppy fitting upper/lowers mismatched finishes (for factory guns this is pretty shoddy but for a mismatch build its more acceptable) and hammer springs that were installed incorrectly, and then all the stuff on "the chart", etc-

My first AR was a CMMG/Cav Arms mutt might not have been pretty but it went bang when I wanted it to-

Posted: 4/28/2009 8:58:34 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
The milspec one......

COLT

Posted: 4/28/2009 9:15:52 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
IF I had to pick I'd say LaRue and Noveske.

The best one is the one that functions every time, eats every type of ammo and shoots straight. It's also the one loaded with magazines and ammo in case zombies come back.

In that case my vote goes to my DPMS.

*ducks*

Posted: 4/28/2009 9:55:48 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
IF I had to pick I'd say LaRue and Noveske.

The best one is the one that functions every time, eats every type of ammo and shoots straight. It's also the one loaded with magazines and ammo in case zombies come back.

In that case my vote goes to my DPMS.

*ducks*

Posted: 4/28/2009 10:01:46 AM EDT

[#10]

Posted: 4/29/2009 3:54:24 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The milspec one......

COLT

+1. Again.

Nice barrels are nice, no question.

If it's not Colt, it's not truly milspec, though it may be quite nice.

Posted: 4/30/2009 2:31:59 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The milspec one......

COLT

+1. Again.

Nice barrels are nice, no question.

If it's not Colt, it's not truly milspec, though it may be quite nice.

You are of course aware that MILSPEC represents the MINIMUM acceptable criteria, correct? It is entirely possible to make a rifle that exceeds MILSPEC.

MBR

Posted: 4/30/2009 3:25:35 AM EDT

[#13]

Either a Colt of LMT.

Posted: 4/30/2009 3:43:10 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The milspec one......

COLT

+1. Again.

Nice barrels are nice, no question.

If it's not Colt, it's not truly milspec, though it may be quite nice.

You are of course aware that MILSPEC represents the MINIMUM acceptable criteria, correct? It is entirely possible to make a rifle that exceeds MILSPEC.

MBR

Exceeds how? I hear that statement, and it's mostly wrong. Mil-Specs sometimes specify performance. Sometimes they specify EXACTLY the procedure to be used.

yes, there are materials and procedures, etc, which are "better than" Mil-Spec. Very few AR makers actually use them. Many AR shooter will tell that a mid-length gas system is "better than" a carbine system for a 16" barrels. But the military uses 14.5" barrels, where it's not as useful. LWRC nitrides their barrels instead of chrome-lining. It is probably superior to chroming, but more exspensive for sure, and certainly not the spec. The MIAD grip isn't "spec" but it's better than the A2 grip. etc....

However, a LOT of makers cut corners on quality of materials (especially in barrel steel). And many do not use the quality of materials and testing necessary to ensure performance in barrels and bolts. Many... even most... don't do incredibly simple crap like staking the carrier key properly, or staking the castle nut. If they cut corners on really simple shit like that, what do they do on stuff that actually takes time and money!?

Up next: Colt was the low bidder!!!!

Posted: 4/30/2009 3:45:28 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The milspec one......

COLT

+1. Again.

Nice barrels are nice, no question.

If it's not Colt, it's not truly milspec, though it may be quite nice.

You are of course aware that MILSPEC represents the MINIMUM acceptable criteria, correct? It is entirely possible to make a rifle that exceeds MILSPEC.

MBR

Unfortunately, only a few parts from very few brands, exceed those minimum standards.
Noveske barrels come to mind, but I'm not aware of anything else the actually exceeds the TDP specs, and no brand exceeds the spec as a whole. KAC would be the only possible brand the meets the spec in most parts, and exceeds it in the other parts....from what I've heard.

Posted: 4/30/2009 12:16:25 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Colt/FN

LMT

Larue

LWRC

Noveske

Defensive Edge

BCM

Charles Daly

Bushmaster

S&W

CMMG

RRA

DPMS

Stag

Armalite doesn't even make the long list anymore? I remember when the list was pretty much A, B, C. Armalite, Bushmaster and Colt.

I know

Yet there are some unproven no-namers in there like Charles Daly (purveyors of cheap imported guns) and "Defensive Edge" - whoever the hell they are - garage operation?

Ahhh....the AR love business is such a fickle and transient thing...

Posted: 4/30/2009 12:30:14 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Colt/FN
LMT
Larue
LWRC
Noveske
Defensive Edge
BCM
Charles Daly
Bushmaster
S&W
CMMG
RRA
DPMS
Stag

Armalite doesn't even make the long list anymore? I remember when the list was pretty much A, B, C. Armalite, Bushmaster and Colt.

I know

Yet there are some unproven no-namers in there like Charles Daly (purveyors of cheap imported guns) and "Defensive Edge" - whoever the hell they are - garage operation?

Ahhh....the AR love business is such a fickle and transient thing...

I don't have any experience with them, but Pat Rogers put Defensive Edge in is top 5 favorite manufacturers so that's proven enough in my book. I agree that Armalite should be mentioned more often though

Posted: 4/30/2009 12:53:27 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Colt/FN
LMT
Larue
LWRC
Noveske
Defensive Edge
BCM
Charles Daly
Bushmaster
S&W
CMMG
RRA
DPMS
Stag

Armalite doesn't even make the long list anymore? I remember when the list was pretty much A, B, C. Armalite, Bushmaster and Colt.

I know

Yet there are some unproven no-namers in there like Charles Daly (purveyors of cheap imported guns) and "Defensive Edge" - whoever the hell they are - garage operation?

Ahhh....the AR love business is such a fickle and transient thing...

Maybe you should do some more research on the subject. Armalite isn't even the orginal Armalite anymore. It's Eagle Arms who bought the name out. Many other big names who blast out a ton of rifles are sub par as well. Just because a company doesn't have name recognition with you doesn't mean they aren't building rifles correctly, and just because a name like Bushmaster gets instant recognition doesn't mean they are building rifles correctly.

Posted: 4/30/2009 2:23:23 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Colt/FN
LMT
Larue
LWRC
Noveske
Defensive Edge
BCM
Charles Daly
Bushmaster
S&W
CMMG
RRA
DPMS
Stag

Armalite doesn't even make the long list anymore? I remember when the list was pretty much A, B, C. Armalite, Bushmaster and Colt.

I know

Yet there are some unproven no-namers in there like Charles Daly (purveyors of cheap imported guns) and "Defensive Edge" - whoever the hell they are - garage operation?

Ahhh....the AR love business is such a fickle and transient thing...

Maybe you should do some more research on the subject. Armalite isn't even the orginal Armalite anymore. It's Eagle Arms who bought the name out. Many other big names who blast out a ton of rifles are sub par as well. Just because a company doesn't have name recognition with you doesn't mean they aren't building rifles correctly, and just because a name like Bushmaster gets instant recognition doesn't mean they are building rifles correctly.

Colt has changed ownership several times as well, but I didn't think that necessarily diminished the quality of their products. As far as Armalite ownership, doesn't Mark Westrom still own it or has it changed ownership recently? Regardless, whether Armalite is still owned by Fairchild or Colt is still owned by Samuel Colt's family, the current product is all that matters. I did not realize that Armalite's quality had slipped so bad in the last few years.

Posted: 4/30/2009 2:32:44 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Colt/FN
LMT
Larue
LWRC
Noveske
Defensive Edge
BCM
Charles Daly
Bushmaster
S&W
CMMG
RRA
DPMS
Stag

Armalite doesn't even make the long list anymore? I remember when the list was pretty much A, B, C. Armalite, Bushmaster and Colt.

I know

Yet there are some unproven no-namers in there like Charles Daly (purveyors of cheap imported guns) and "Defensive Edge" - whoever the hell they are - garage operation?

Ahhh....the AR love business is such a fickle and transient thing...

Maybe you should do some more research on the subject. Armalite isn't even the orginal Armalite anymore. It's Eagle Arms who bought the name out. Many other big names who blast out a ton of rifles are sub par as well. Just because a company doesn't have name recognition with you doesn't mean they aren't building rifles correctly, and just because a name like Bushmaster gets instant recognition doesn't mean they are building rifles correctly.

Colt has changed ownership several times as well, but I didn't think that necessarily diminished the quality of their products. As far as Armalite ownership, doesn't Mark Westrom still own it or has it changed ownership recently? Regardless, whether Armalite is still owned by Fairchild or Colt is still owned by Samuel Colt's family, the current product is all that matters. I did not realize that Armalite's quality had slipped so bad in the last few years.

you cant really say armalites quality isnt as good as it was before westrom bought it, the original company didnt make any real amount of ARs. after getting the AR15 close to done, armalite sold the design to colt and Stoner went to work for colt, thats when we got the rifle we know now. the only ARs armalite made where more prototypes in nature. early AR15s had armalite and colt both on them casue colt built them for armalite before they bought the design, after that stoner and colt engineers refined it and changed it per military requirements the original armalite company never massed produced any significant amount.

Posted: 4/30/2009 3:05:00 PM EDT

[#21]

You know, I don't think i've ever seen someone with a wilson combat ar.

What gives?

Posted: 4/30/2009 3:10:49 PM EDT

[#22]

i know the DD rifle is new and i would definitely recommend a colt/lmt/sabre level rifle or a bushy/rra if someone asked me, but on other ranking posts theyve definitely been put top-mid, what do yall think?

Posted: 4/30/2009 3:15:54 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
You know, I don't think i've ever seen someone with a wilson combat ar.

What gives?

I have a couple friend who have Wilson rifles and they are very nice guns, IMHO. They didn't make "the list: either.

Posted: 4/30/2009 3:17:10 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You know, I don't think i've ever seen someone with a wilson combat ar.

What gives?

I have a couple friend who have Wilson rifles and they are very nice guns, IMHO. They didn't make "the list: either. JP didn't make it as well. Maybe the list is slightly flawed or incomplete?

Posted: 5/1/2009 1:24:12 PM EDT

[#25]

You have all materially contributed to my personal financial ruin––and in these times of economic turmoil, too. SHAME!

Yesterday I put my money (or my plastic) where my mouth is and "ponied" up for a Colt. Haven't even fired it yet.

It has a "blocked" receiver. Since I'm not going to make any illegal machine guns, I am not disturbed by this.

We have full auto versions at work, where our armorer just replaced a fairly new but cracked DPMS bolt.

Seems he didn't want this one to break. He replaced it with a part ordered from . . . surprise! . . . Colt.

Posted: 5/1/2009 1:30:39 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The milspec one......

COLT

+1. Again.

Nice barrels are nice, no question.

If it's not Colt, it's not truly milspec, though it may be quite nice.

You are of course aware that MILSPEC represents the MINIMUM acceptable criteria, correct?

Yes, I am. Colt can prove that it routinely meets . . . or exceeds . . . those standards. The others . . . ?

Posted: 5/1/2009 2:28:16 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The milspec one......

COLT

+1. Again.

Nice barrels are nice, no question.

If it's not Colt, it's not truly milspec, though it may be quite nice.

You are of course aware that MILSPEC represents the MINIMUM acceptable criteria, correct?

Yes, I am. Colt can prove that it routinely meets . . . or exceeds . . . those standards. The others . . . ?

+1 Colt meets all the "minimum standards."

Brands such as Noveske, KAC, etc meet the majority of them and exceed some of them in the case of Noveske's barrels and KAC's E3 bolt.

Brands such as Bushmaster, RRA, DPMS, etc do not meet or exceed the "minimum standards." A tight upper and lower fit and a finish with no scratches or dings is not part of the TDP. Those are superficial standards that hold no baring on function or reliability.

Posted: 5/1/2009 2:56:40 PM EDT

[#28]

+1 Colt meets all the "minimum standards."

Brands such as Noveske, KAC, etc meet the majority of them and exceed some of them in the case of Noveske's barrels and KAC's E3 bolt.

Brands such as Bushmaster, RRA, DPMS, etc do not meet or exceed the "minimum standards." A tight upper and lower fit and a finish with no scratches or dings is not part of the TDP. Those are superficial standards that hold no bearing on function or reliability.

Very well said, CTbuilder1.

Posted: 5/1/2009 4:10:35 PM EDT

[#29]

I'm going with Sabre Defence, great quality rifle all around.

Posted: 5/1/2009 9:10:51 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I'm going with Sabre Defence, great quality rifle all around.

+1

Posted: 5/1/2009 9:21:49 PM EDT

[#31]

Armalite, why go anywhere else?

Posted: 5/1/2009 9:35:19 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm going with Sabre Defence, great quality rifle all around.

+1

best kept secret on here, my SPR is top notch. Accuracy and fit and finish exceeds my Noveske.

Posted: 5/1/2009 9:37:07 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
The milspec one......

COLT

Posted: 5/1/2009 10:17:09 PM EDT

[#34]

Can I cheat just a little, and pick a White Oak upper + RRA lower + Geissele trigger + Krieger barrel ?

No?

Damn.

How about everything but the stripped lower from White Oak Armament, and a neat & clean Tactical Innovations stripped lower

No?

Fine

Then CMT/Stag, or LMT, or Colt.

Posted: 5/1/2009 11:08:18 PM EDT

[#35]

Noveske
KAC
Colt
LMT
Now I would put LWRC in a diff. category since they are Gas piston but they seem to have very good quality stuff so if pressed I'd probably put them right around colt, maybe higher for all the extra's that come on there. Though they do have quite a few proprietary parts which would make me hesitant to have them as my one and only rifle.

Larue does not make a complete as of yet so I didn't list them though they do make top quality uppers. Also someone mentioned Magpul and Vltor. neither of those companies makes completes.

Also most of this depends on the intended use of the rifle and what you are looking to get out of it. If you are looking for a Heavy duty barrel that will last longer under full auto fire... Noveske N4 if you are looking for something that's dependable buy will probably not get shot alot because you want it to appreciate in value I'd go Colt. If you want mostly Ambi controls and ooohs and ahhs the Kac sr-15 E3. If you want something that's got almost all the same quality control as colt but less expensive LMT. If you are looking for SPR type of Gun a Noveske SPR with a stainless barrel would be good also KAC obsiously makes some spr stuff if you can get ahold of it. Do you want to be able to quickly change calibers, Barrel Length, etc? LMT MRP no to mention the Monolithic rail.

My choice the Noveske N4 Light Recce switchblock with the MWR upper and the SWS/Noveske rail. If not the switchblock then the Lopro. But this will all probably be asked again in a week.

Posted: 5/2/2009 4:09:05 AM EDT

[#36]

The real deal is that most civilian shooters will never push the AR they have hard enough to ever see the need for a Colt over a Bushmaster...etc. Even though I am a Colt owner, I have never asked them to do something a CMMG/RRA/Stag/DPMS/Armalite/Doublestar/.....couldn't have done.
Now, if the zombies ever start a human wave attack, then my Colt M4s will get their chance to shine.

Posted: 5/2/2009 5:50:20 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
The real deal is that most civilian shooters will never push the AR they have hard enough to ever see the need for a Colt over a Bushmaster...etc. Even though I am a Colt owner, I have never asked them to do something a CMMG/RRA/Stag/DPMS/Armalite/Doublestar/.....couldn't have done.
Now, if the zombies ever start a human wave attack, then my Colt M4s will get their chance to shine.

Because your Colt AR can tell the difference between a pop can and an attacking zombie??

Posted: 5/2/2009 10:26:16 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
If you had to buy an ar already built and you couldnt customize it yourself. What brand would you buy, lmt, lwrc, bushmaster, etc.

LMT
COLT
NOVESKE
any order

Posted: 5/2/2009 10:30:52 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The milspec one......

COLT

+1. Again.

Nice barrels are nice, no question.

If it's not Colt, it's not truly milspec, though it may be quite nice.

Yeah LMT dont park under FSB

Posted: 5/2/2009 10:35:06 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The milspec one......

COLT

+1. Again.

Nice barrels are nice, no question.

If it's not Colt, it's not truly milspec, though it may be quite nice.

Yeah LMT dont park under FSB

Or use taper pins on the FSB, or use an H buffer. Not a problem to me, I have an LMT upper on the way right now

Posted: 5/3/2009 6:16:46 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The milspec one......

COLT

+1. Again.

Nice barrels are nice, no question.

If it's not Colt, it's not truly milspec, though it may be quite nice.

Yeah LMT dont park under FSB

Or use taper pins on the FSB, or use an H buffer. Not a problem to me, I have an LMT upper on the way right now

I love this man!
Same thing my father taught me: buy some of each.

Posted: 6/15/2009 11:39:15 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Armalite, why go anywhere else?

That plan sure worked for me.

Two so far; and one is a 12 year running with no complaints whatsoever. And didn't need to give premium top dollar for a flavor-of-the-month AR maker.

Posted: 6/15/2009 12:25:08 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The milspec one......

COLT

+1. Again.

Nice barrels are nice, no question.

If it's not Colt, it's not truly milspec, though it may be quite nice.

Yeah LMT dont park under FSB

Well the Colt is not full auto or burst so it is not truly mil spec. I would pick a noveske because it has all the mil spec features any other civi rifle has but with a better barrel.

Posted: 6/15/2009 12:37:43 PM EDT

[#44]

I've seen, handled and shot nearly every major manufacturer and in my personal experience the one's I have been most impressed with are:

BCM, Noveske, Colt, and KAC (in no particular order). LMT is close behind but their quality control and features were slightly less that the others mentioned.