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Posted: 2/21/2006 7:31:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Post a picture, its the only way for us to make a legit comment.
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Posted: 2/21/2006 7:34:35 PM EDT
[#2]
This is the only one I have right now. I'll post a closer one later. You can see the wear marks on the upper. They do not rub off.
http://home.comcast.net/~md6040/CRW_2496.jpg |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 7:35:32 PM EDT
[#3]
thats a weird beast.
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Posted: 2/21/2006 7:37:52 PM EDT
[#4]
223semiauto- What's that supposed to mean?
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Posted: 2/21/2006 7:42:05 PM EDT
[#5]
A1 upper with M4 1/9 barrel and A2 FS. Weird indeed... You can order those parts from Bushmaster but haven't seen a complete rifle or upper like that from Bushmaster...
TS 
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Posted: 2/21/2006 7:43:49 PM EDT
[#6]
This is copied from Bushmaster's website.
"We have seen this happen many times here. We get rifles all the time for warranty service that have our lower receiver, but every other part is a gun show special. Before purchasing, look things over carefully. You are about to lay down a sizeable chunk of money, so take a minute to be sure of what you are buying. Bushmaster's identifying marks are: On the barrel, in front of the front sight, it will be stamped: "B MP 5.56 NATO 1/9 H BAR" (exactly that way). On some barrels, it may be under the handguard, but it will still say that exact thing. The only difference might be a 1/7 instead of a 1/9 . This denotes the rifling twist. Our front sights are held on by two taper pins, one through each of the bands of the front sight. We do not use hollow roll pins, never have - never will. Our handguards have aluminum heat shields in them. Our barrels have the correct gray/green manganese phosphate finish, not black. Our tele-stocks have a small roll pin holding the nut on under the sliding latch. If it's not pinned, it's not ours. Our hammers and triggers have polished contact surfaces. We always use aluminum delta rings to retain the handguards. Our buffers have a gold-colored finish on them, which is easy to see inside the stock. Our aluminum parts all have the mil. spec hard anodized flat or matte finish to them, not shiny. This includes the receivers, the charging handle, and the delta ring. However, oil on the surface might make the normally flat or matte finish appear shiny. The best insurance is to always buy from a local dealer, someone you can go back to if you have any problems. Most of them are reputable, and will at least help you contact the factory for service problems." K |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 7:48:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Oh no!
They sold the gun to me saying it was new.. Is there anything I can do about that? |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 7:51:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for posting the pic. The marks on your upper are transitory markings from the action block used when it was barreled. I suspect that the person you bought it from put the Bushie barrel on the A1 upper, and assembled it, then resold it as a complete weapon. This is sometimes done by people in order to get around FET, and get a little extra money. Its possible that it came from Bushmaster this way as a special purchase, but I doubt it based off the markings. I will point out that this does NOT mean there is anything wrong with the weapon. My biggest fear would be that your will have to move your rear sight all the way over due to an overtightened barrel, however, that may not be the case. If I were you, I would call Bushmaster in the morning, and give them your serial number. They will check and tell you if that receiver left the factory as a complete weapon, assembled lower, or a stripper lower receiver. Keep us posted. ETA- 1. That is still a GREAT looking carbine, and in a fantastic configuration. 2. The things usually swapped out if you were cheated are primarily the barrel and bolt, your barrel is a Bushie, so I don't think you are in serious trouble with anything. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 8:01:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Stickman- Thanks for the reply! That's very useful information.
Is it legal for shops to sell rifles like this as "New". If those mods/assembally weren't performed by Bushmaster, I assume I have no warranty and am basically stuck with someone's garage creation? |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 8:09:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Check your IM, a threw a few more thoughts at you.
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Posted: 2/21/2006 8:16:22 PM EDT
[#11]
It may have been ordered that way too......I have a post-ban 20" HBAR, with an A1 upper that came from the factory that way.
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Posted: 2/21/2006 8:18:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Are you talking about the pattern of squares at the base of the carryhandle? If so I got a brand new Bushy that looked like that. Look for a forge mark on the upper, it might look like a keyhole.
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Posted: 2/21/2006 8:25:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Stick- I didn't receive your IM sir.
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Posted: 2/21/2006 8:28:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Thats because I sent it to the wrong person.......  Lets try it again |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 8:53:23 PM EDT
[#15]
That's a great looking carbine. Those marks from the vice action block are quite common on Bushamster assembled rifles. I have them on 12 I have. One quick thought would be to look at the packing box you got with the rifle. Did it come in a BM padded case? Was the stout cardboard box included with the purchase? If not, is their foam inside the box it came with Is there a BM stock number annotated on the end of any box the rifle came with. If so, what is that number series?
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Posted: 2/21/2006 8:57:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Here's some closer pics of the upper. Sorry they're huge.
http://home.comcast.net/~md6040/IMG_2498.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~md6040/IMG_2499.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~md6040/IMG_2500.jpg |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 9:01:35 PM EDT
[#17]
I like it, but it still doesn't answer that you bought an A2, and that this is an A1. Its worth checking the box to see what it is labeled as. I think there are a lot of us that would rather have an A1 than an A2. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 9:04:37 PM EDT
[#18]
KingC-
That's a great looking carbine. Thankyou. I needed that 'cause I'm feeling pretty crappy about this tonight. Those marks from the vice action block are quite common on Bushamster assembled rifles. That's reassuring. I will contact Bushmaster tomorrow and see what they can tell me about the serial number. Did it come in a BM padded case? Yes Was the stout cardboard box included with the purchase? No If not, is their foam inside the box it came with Is there a BM stock number annotated on the end of any box the rifle came with. I will have to check later tonight. I put the box in storage. If so, what is that number series? L400*** |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 9:13:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Usually, usually, Bushmaster has stock numbers on a white label on one end of a stout cardboard the plastic case fits into. The number is a very long number derived from Bushmasters model designations.
You have a great looking carbine, but if it was not as was represented to you at point of purchase, I understand your downtake. OHHHHHHHH! Does the telestock have the BM Snake molded into it at any place? They usually have that symbol on the stock on one side. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 9:27:07 PM EDT
[#20]
KingC- I checked the outside of the box and didn't find any kind of serial number. A warranty card is inside the platic box, along with a manual, strap and one magazine.
The telestock does have the snake emblem molden into it. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 9:31:14 PM EDT
[#21]
I think you are going to be fine, the only thing bugging me is the A1 vs A2 part..... but you end up with the better deal on that in my opinion.
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Posted: 2/21/2006 9:35:05 PM EDT
[#22]
This would be a BM stock number. Is their any long number at the end of the box. Otherwise, check with BM in the morning. They will tell you iffn it was shipped as a complete unit.. If this is not what you were expecting, do you think the dealer will accept a return? The thiang looks absolutely greased and unfired, so if not happy, would a return be acceptable? And yes, as Stick says, the A1 is a fovorite, my favorite, and even a lighter package, but I understand not being represented as what you were looking for. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 9:36:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Stickman- Is it really common for people to put the barrel in like that? I don't think the shop I was dealing had the tools to do that kind of work.
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Posted: 2/21/2006 9:38:46 PM EDT
[#24]
I highly doubt it 'cause I signed the piece of paper that said no returns on firearms. But this is a different situation. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 9:42:00 PM EDT
[#25]
No, it is not common at all, especially from an established gun store. It would be much more common at a gunshow. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 10:02:37 PM EDT
[#26]
I’ve seen pieced together AR15s from junk parts for sale at their store. When some idiot screws up a build that’s where they end up. But they always say "used" on the tag. Always. Once in a while they have a new Bushmaster for sale. I’ve seen them and they were new alright. I think you should call Bushmaster to confirm date of build and what shop bought it. If that is a "used" gun they owe you your money back for misrepresenting it as "new." That store also uses the term "as new" for the nicer "used" guns. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 10:13:11 PM EDT
[#27]
TangoFoxtrot- I guess I'm not sure what makes a used gun a used gun. If I can prove that they did not buy it as a complete rifle from Bushmaster, does that make it used? Doesn't it have to come from the factory or something to be new? They clearly maked the gun as "New" and I have it on my receipt.
Ok, it sounds liek there's three possible scenarios. 1.) They bought an odd ball M4 A1/A2 hybrid from Bushmaster. Perhaps it could have been a cancled order or something. I cant dispute that being classified as a new gun. 2.) They purchaced the lower and built the rest themselves in the shop. Wouldn't they have to be considered a gun manufacturer to get away with that? 3.) Some guy just traded in a used gun and they lied and sold it as new. Am I seeing the whole picture here? If I can prove they were wrong about it being new, what should I threaten if they refuse to refuse to give me a refund? |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 10:27:11 PM EDT
[#28]
First , it's on the price tag but they probably kept that. They will also have given you a yellow copy of the reciept with boxes for New and Used. They should have put a checkmark in the "New" or "Used" box. If it's in the "used" box you will have a tougher time getting any money back. They also have check boxes for the owners manual and warranty card given. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 10:45:53 PM EDT
[#29]
TangoFoxtrot-
They marked the "New" box. They also called it an A2 on the receipt. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 10:59:40 PM EDT
[#30]
If this was sold before at retail the gunstore cannot sell it as new. They would have to sell it as unfired. Thats a nice rifle you bought . Like eveyone else said just call bushmaster., but most manufactures will not give the info over the phone.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 1:52:52 AM EDT
[#31]
All of the post 94 Bushmaster stripped lowers I have bought to build my own rifles with, have an "L" at the begining of the serial number. All of the post 94 factory Bushmaster rifles I have purchased have a "BFI" at the strart of the serial number. Hope this might help you somewhat.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:29:17 AM EDT
[#32]
Thank you. That is so messed up. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:32:58 AM EDT
[#33]
Well first off...........Welcome to the new disease you have, and welcome to the sight.
I personally like the carbine you purchased, yet you may have purchased it by some dishonest people or some non-knowing (retards) gun-shop owners. It looks like to me that you might have some BM parts but not all of them. If you call BM they will tellyou if what you purchased was a complete firearm or a partial, like a stripped lower. BM boxes can be bought all the time for nothing on ebay or even BM. Alot of people buy AR15's and dont think about if it is real or not because they dont ride in our circle here on ARFCOM. Most people here dont buy complete AR's, unless their Colt. Most here build, because it is way cheaper. Having said that, you will now research every purchase you will ever make before putting down a wad of cash on anything ever again. It happened to me and most people here, they just want their first one and will overlook most things about it until its to late to do anything about it. In my opinion about your purchase is this.......... You bought a carbine that was put together with aftermarket parts and some factory BM parts probably. Maybe not.......... Bushmaster will know, they will tell you how it went out from the factory. If its different, raise holy hell on the people (retards) who told you that is was factory. What does it for me is the M4 stock doesnt have the snake emblem..........  Thats not Bushmaster.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:43:13 AM EDT
[#34]
Mine is a complete factory Bushie and the serial starts with a "L" Mike found this a few threads down.... ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=270260 |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:44:49 AM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 2/22/2006 2:53:48 AM EDT
[#36]
AROKIE- He was just trying to make me feel better about it. It worked.
How much research is normally required when you're buying something brand new from a reputable company like Bushmaster? It didn't even occur to me that they could be lying about it being a new firearm. I am so bummed. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 3:38:36 AM EDT
[#37]
Ok, I have a plan for returning it to The Gun Broker if Bushmaster says they sold the lower receiver separately to another individual.
I called my credit card company and asked what I can do about cancling a charge (I did put it on a credit card ) They said that I am certainly able to dispute a charge for things exactly like this. He said what they do is stop the payment until the issue is resolved. What I'm thinking about ding is this: Take a friend with me and stand outside with a camera and have him take pics of me going in the store with the rifle. I'll be nice and explain the situation very clearly. I'll explain what Bushmaster said and that there's a discrepancy on my receipt. I will give them the chance to make it right. If they refuse, I will set down the rifle on the counter, explain that I've had my photograph taking going in and out, AND while I was at the counter to show that I did indeed give them the rifle back. (They are an FFL, so I think they're responsible for all firearms on their property if I'm not mistaken.) I will tell then I am cancling that portion of the charge and that if they'd like to bring me to court, go right ahead... I will then walk right out and hope I never hear anything from them again. It's not like they're gonna go to court when they know they're wrong and it's only over an $800 rifle, don't you think? What are your thoughts? |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 4:28:23 AM EDT
[#38]
I would probably keep it and be happy. That's one awesome looking set up. I also noticed the upper has actual Alco-Harvey forge symbol on it (the A over the H) on the right side of your carry handle by the rear sight.
It looks like you have some genuine quality parts there, in an awesome looking setup. When I was in the military we had carbines set up just like that...M4 profile barrel w/rifle barrel extension and A1 Upper. We used them to issue to K9 handlers. Cool gun...keep it, you have something unique and quite possibly Bushmaster made. They have all those parts. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 4:31:10 AM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 2/22/2006 4:48:48 AM EDT
[#40]
Do NOT just walk out of the store without the rifle, and assume your CC company will take care of you. BTW, if it was a DEBIT card you used, you may be out of luck; some debit cards look and function like credit cards, but without purchase protection.
Did the CC company tell you the charge is now frozen? And that an investigation has begun? If so, just go in and inform the store that you put a hold on the charge. If Bushmaster confirms that the rifle is not a complete rifle, I can't imagine you will have a problem. Offer to exchange the rifle immediately for a full refund to your CC. You can probably get the consumer protection dept of the the CC company on the phone while you're in the store, and get the whole thing cleared up. But don't walk out of the store with no rifle and no receipt; that photo won't be worth shit. I know it's probably a satisfactory carbine (please forgive the above nomenclature), but I know how you feel about getting ripped off. Like finding out your wife was once a hooker, or something. . . . |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:02:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Yeah forget about the stuff said up top..............some people really want you to feel like shit.
All I was saying is the way I found myself and others is this........... newb............"I bought a new Bushmaster today".......... arfcommer........"oh yeah, how much?" newb..........."$1150, is that too much?" arfcommer........$1150!?!?!.........you got ripped dude! go here (link) and get it for $200 cheaper" newb........."Well its too late I already bought it and they say I cant return firearms in for a refund........" arfcommer........."Dude, you got so ripped"  ............................................................................................................................................................... So called experts with high posts counts still dont know shit most sometimes.......... I hate seeing that in posts.........Its like I can see peoples stomachs sink when being told stuff like that..... 
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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:27:19 AM EDT
[#42]
It's not that bad If the only problem is paying 200.00 too much for a Bushmaster you will live. |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 6:15:33 AM EDT
[#43]
im so freaking out right now!!!!! 
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Posted: 2/22/2006 6:45:44 AM EDT
[#44]
Either way, you should keep it. From all the positive replys to this post, you should have no problem selling this in the EE.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 7:29:18 AM EDT
[#45]
WTF...call BM, if it was sold as a complete rifle, learn how to service your new toy and tear it down looking for signs of wear, cheapo parts, etc. If everything looks good, KEEP THE DAMNED THING. As stated many people actually prefer that upper. If you prefer the A2, then just take it back and tell them their mistake and let them take care of you. If BM states it was sold as a stripped lower, then dispute the charge and go take it up with the shop. Seriously...stop whining about it and do something, then come whine to us afterwards.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:00:52 AM EDT
[#46]
ME TOO!!!!!!  [irish accent] I still luv ya, always have. [/irish accent] |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:02:26 AM EDT
[#47]
Keep the unique carbine, I like it!!!!!!!
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:13:29 AM EDT
[#48]
As long as you will be in the neighborhood, drive up Hwy 205 about three miles to Johnson Creek Blvd, turn left onto it, and when you get to the Home Depot make another left onto 82nd Ave. A couple of blocks down on the right you will see a Sportsman’s Warehouse that also stocks Bushmasters.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:21:59 AM EDT
[#49]
there is a bushmaster production run offered by davidsons as shot show specials
they are this model dont know about the wear marks on the reciever if you have concerns talk to your ffl dealer and ask if it came from davidsons because they give a lifetime warrenty hope this helps. also call bushmaster give them the serial # and they will tell you how it was shipped bill |
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Posted: 2/22/2006 10:27:51 AM EDT
[#50]
Dealer got stuck with a postban and ......
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