Here's my dilema, found 2 guns at the gunshow today and can't decide which to buy!  Colt flat top w/handle, 16" barrel w/muzzle brake, post ban collapsable stock $1050. OR new DPMS lower, used rock river m4 flat top upper w/16" barrel and fake flash hider $890.  The thing holding me back on the colt is the muzzle break. Rather have a flash hider. The muzzle brake has two pins in it but can't tell if it's welded too.  Any comments or recommendations?  Do you think the muzzle brake can be taken off and a flash hider pinned on?

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

Pinned, or bolted on brakes are OK, if the barrel is not threaded (post-ban), and the barrel, w/o the brake, is 16" or more.

The trouble comes with brakes that are put on a threaded post ban barrel. They have to be welded in place, (made non-removable per ATF rules).

Or if you have a barrel that is less than 16", but is over 16" with a muzzle device in place. That device must be permanantly affixed if it is to be counted as part of the 16".

Assuming non-class III weapons.

Legally if the Colt is post-ban, a FS would be illegal to put on.

"Do you think the muzzle brake can be taken off and a flash hider pinned on?"

you are talking post ban gun & modifying it with "pre-ban" features..., thats a NO NO...!!!

"post ban collapsable stock"....., hummmmm is there a bit of nomenclature misunderstanding here ? "post bans" do NOT have movable stocks, are you saying it is "fixed" in one position or moves in & out ?? if that is the case keep away from that gun as it is jail bait !!! if it is a fixed stock it still is NOT worth $1050, check the Colt S/N list on this site & check the numbers against the rifle (CAR) if it is legit, offer $800-$900, that is all a used Colt post ban is worth..., IMO & i am a Colt person.....

Okay, my humble appologies, I'm still trying to acclimate myself to this legal AR terminology.  The stock would be a "fixed" collapsible looking stock.  That some of my questions. Anyone want to try some of the others?

Those prices are high...I'd look elsewhere.

if you're looking to spend that kind of money go and find you an actual preban that you can put all the goodies on.............NIB can be found for around $1400-$2100 depending on configuration, used can be found from about $800-a shitpile.

For my part of the country, at least, those are high gun show prices - particularly for the DPMS in its configuration.

I assume there’s no warrantee on the DPMS.  Plus, being a mix and match - admittedly of good parts - makes this a real pig-in-a-poke, especially at a gun show where the vendor will presumably disappear into the night.

The Colt price doesn’t sound quite as bad, except that Colt’s are overpriced anyway.  Over a grand for any stock post-ban AR is way too much IMHO.

Plus, I’ve heard that at least some newer Colts don’t have chrome-plated barrels, which you definitely want, especially if you’re paying that much!!

The fact that the Colt has two pins in the muzzlebreak certainly [b]suggests[/b] that you can take it off.  You might want to check the Colt website and see if it tells you anything.

Probably the problem with putting a [b]fake[/b] flash hider on the Colt is going to be finding one that fits, especially as regards the size and spacing of the two pin holes.  No doubt Kurt could fit one, but is that the road you want to go down?

Personally, I’d pass on these and keep shopping around.

Yeah, the prices sound a little high to me, also

remember- no flash hiders alowed on post ban guns

I agree with RussB.....for the price of that DPMS you can buy yourself a brand-spankin-new Bushmaster, and have whatever-the-hell-you-want-on-it.

I've noticed that Gunshows can be more expensive than most other places.

I have to respectfully disagree;

A semiautomatic Assault rifle (which a post-ban cannot be to be legal) is define by the BATF as:

A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least 2 of--
   (1) A folding or telescoping stock,
   (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon,
   (3) A bayonet mount,
   (4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
flash suppressor, and
   (5) A grenade launcher;

SOURCE:http://www.atf.treas.gov/regulations/27cfr178.htm


This means you can have ONE but only ONE feature on your postban. Most opt for the pistol grip. If you were to use an approved "thumb hanger" type grip in place of a pistol grip, you could legally choose another feature such as a flash hider OR a bayonet lug OR a folding stock. But you can only have ONE.

Another way (not acceptable to me personally) is to buy a California type receiver, with permanently fixed magazine (e.g. FAB-10 receiver), because then the rifle does not meet the criteria to be a semiautomatic assault wepon as defined by the BATF ( ability to accept a detachable
magazine AND has at least 2 of...) and you could then have all the features - but you give up the detachable mag.

So there is actually a choice here, if one follows the letter of the law. Again, most choose the pistol grip as their ONE feature on their postban rifles, me included.

As far as the COLT vs DPMS/RRA purchase, you could build a rifle on a DPMS receiver for about $600.
(I have done this and ended up up with a good accurate rifle) but the Colt would have higher resale value because of the name - so it's a trade off and would be up to personal preference as to which is the best route. $890 is a bit steep for a parts gun though, IMHO.

RE : Thumbhole stock.

I cannot back this up with a BATF letter or anything, bu JP used to sell a thumbhole stock for AR, but quit after BATF said " the AR will always have a pistol grip, even if it is a thumbhole stock ".

Travis F.

Almost forgot to add:

Shop around, new can be had for those prices in Bushmaster, and other flavors.

Out of town dealers at gunshows have been known to throw togather parts guns, knowing you probably won't pursue them for minor complaints.

Not to say anything bad about ALL gun dealers, or even most, IMHO most dealers deal the same out of town as in, but some don't.

Travis F.