I don't think it works that way.  Remington/Bushmaster bought the rights.  Magpul cannot  "find a decent company to build it and sell it at a rational price point" as they no longer have rights to the design.  Furthermore, if they tried to design anything similar, it would have to be different enough so that Cerberus cannot sue them for copyright infringement.

 

better have your blackberry on and posting if you find something out

It's simply not a compelling enough upgrade over a good quality AR to justify the price - especially with a 1:9 twist, which is taking a step backwards.

TAG

They bought the rights to the RRA .308 AR design using FAL mags as well and then screwed it up.  RRA reacquired the rights and is now producing a successful rifle as the LAR8.   My hope is Magpul can do the same with the Masada.

1:9? WTF? I guess BM has a metric sh*tload of 1:9 blanks sitting around that are usually used for their AR barrels but I assume these blanks can be turned into ACR barrels. Mini-mize cost of production with what you have sitting around by the boatload, maximize profit. Good job BM, so much for a 'Military' weapons system in 1:9. I can buy a LWRC REPR, LaRue OBR or LMT .308 for that cash..

Magpul, make sure you keep the .308 Massoud to yourselves..

Perhaps your right.  But even so, we are talking years down the road...





 

For $1,500 I would have CONSIDERED it... but come on

Plastic and it weighs 8.2 pounds

1/9 twist

Can't have evil features for $1,500 but I can build a gas piston pre-ban AR for less

Very little appeal for this rifle in a ban state at $1,500, NONE at $2,700.

All bushmaster has done is prevent us from getting a masada.  They bought the rights, delayed production, over priced it (for a version that doesn't even have a folding stock), slapped in the wrong barrel, and stuck the gas block out in mid air.

They are the only ones between us and what we've been wanting for a long long time.  Most likely we'll never see the massoud either.  Total failure.

Fixed it for ya...

Actually, if MSPR was $2000 I would have owned one.  Wouldn't have paid $2000 either, but I would have bought one if that were MSRP!  ;)  If dealer cost is north of $2000, then forget it.

Yeah I guess you're right - the 1:9 does kill it.

I can put a piston upper on one of my preban lowers.

+1

And I want one BAD.

But FUCK that price.

What a letdown.

$1600 tops I would have paid.

Big Letdown.... Now off to wishing for the Tavor to make it to the market.

Can't imagine Magpul was totally in the dark on the ACR MSRP.  Understand that Bm wants to make as much $ as possible but the PR nightmare this is causing....

I think if they came in at a good price (sub $2,000) they would make more by selling more.  

Man this SUCKS!!!!

What a total let down...count me out...

So, now that the cats out of the bag, what has BM been leading Magpul to believe the base price would be?

+1

you know, i think the ACR is WAY overpriced, but...

every time a new rifle comes out, 3/4 of the folks here turn into anti-capitalist babies; crying and carrying on about how it's too much, the company is just another evil corporation trying to steal your money, and how you'll never buy another thing from them.

seriously. do you honestly think that the folks at bushmaster cooked up some evil plot to keep YOU from owning a nifty magpul product? you think that was their goal? you tihnk they all sat around, twisted their collective moustaches, and plotted to keep you from owning your dream rifle?

I haven't seen anyone suggest that the .gov step in and make BM sell it to us all for $27.85.  People are pissed (me included) because we though we were going to get a kick-ass firearm for around $1500 (which is plenty pricy to begin with) and BM went and fucked it all up.  It probably wouldn't be so controversial if Magpul hadn't told everyone back in the day that the thing would be around $1500.

I think its you who might not understand capitalism. Bushmaster now owns the rights to a rifle that could have given their current models a run for their money. Instead of innovate, they simply bought the competition and are now essentially sitting on the technology if this is infact the true price. They win both ways now!

actually at this point in the game and with that price.....hhhmmmm  yeah i do think that

True capitalists understand the demands of the market.  Magpul, a company which makes innovative products at reasonable prices, claimed their new rifle would be innovative, a significant step up from the AR, and cost around $1500 to keep it affordable enough for wide adoption.  That's understanding your market



Bushmaster completely screwed up, by making the rifle essentially a step backwards (heavier, longer and slower barrel twists), delaying the release of the other-calibered options (thus eliminating one of the key advantages the rifle had over the AR platform)  and more than doubled the "affordable," though already steep for some, price.  The results are completely predictable.  Bushmaster took a complete winner and turned it into what will likely be an EPIC loser.  I wanted an ACR and was excited to fork over $1600 or more for one, but at double that price they have effectively killed demand.  Without drastic price cuts, I don't think this will ever sell, and even if they do slash the cost a lot of people will still be pissed enough to not buy it.





 

+ another 1

I also think the reason they have the price set so high is because of the ever-so-slight possibility of the military adopting the ACR.  If they sell it to civilians at $1,600 Uncle Sam will refuse to pay $2,000.  If they sell to civilians at $2,700 Uncle Sam will think he's getting a steal at $2,000.

I don't think so.  There are plenty of fools out there that will trip over themselves running to buy it at that price.  I just don't happen to be one of them.  I would have been OK with $1700/$2000, but I think going with BM was a huge mistake.



 

Wrong. So wrong.

Would you rather have 3% of the generic AR market (unchanged because the ACR is priced out of the market) or kill the generic consumer AR market outright and replace it with the reasonably priced ACR market that you own completely (of which ~80% of the profit goes to you and ~20% goes to Magpul for providing all the polymer parts on the ACRs and thus wins on every ACR sold).

This is a marketing strategy mistake, not a symptom of how the system of capitalism works.

That said, you guys might also consider that Bushmaster may be in a hurry to recoup their initial investment in this platform quickly out of fear that the consumer market for the ACR might be destroyed by government legislation.
Remington's .MIL and LEO pricing (immune from the whims of government anti-gun efforts) will surely benefit from the high water mark established by the Bushmaster consumer price.

I have no clue how they could be so stupid to sell the rifle with a 1:9 barrel. That is just retarded.

Shame on Bushmaster. Now the question is what to spend my hard earned money on? MSAR STG556 E4 or another LWRC? Hell, even the FN Scar16 since it is really being fielded by our US military is a viable purchase at this point.

I'm betting the initial run will sell very quickly even with all the negativity the ACR is generating.

Looks like another 2 ARs for me.

That probably depends on how many are in the first run

True. If they've been cranking 'em out thinking they're going to sell copious amounts then I'll probably end up being wrong.

There are a lot of fools, as you put it, but there won't be enough of them to make the ACR a big success.

Has anybody read an official statement from Magpul yet regarding the "hold off, this isn't the price we were told" comment?

lol

Magpul posted in one of the threads that the $2700 price was higher than they had been led to believe it would be.










 

Now thinking retrospectively, we were completely naive to think that Bushmaster would ever release a far superior rifle at an economic and competitive price that would completely obliterate the demand for every other product they produce. Their products are based mostly on the AR platform, so to allow the ACR to ride in on a white horse and take over the spotlight would be insane. So now they get the best of both worlds, they continue to sell their AR products with little or no loss while also owning one of the most innovative and efficient rifles produced to date. They sell some to those who can afford it or those who can't live without it while Remington secures contracts with elite military units, but they never sell too many or at too low a price to put themselves out of business. They do not care about Magpul's mantra of "challenging the establishment," Bushmaster is the establishment, they are the system. And all they care about is survival.

This whole ACR deal may have been all about survival from the beginning. If you were a competitor and saw an incredible new company designing a new rifle that would cripple you (the establishment) if brought to market, would you not do the same thing? So they saw an opportunity to take ownership of it, and then sit on it for two years, maybe hoping a ban would be in place by then and then the ACR would just go away. But now since there is no ban, this is their way of continuing to sit on it, by releasing it ridiculously overpriced so it is still completely unavailable to the vast majority, while still benefiting greatly by getting .mil contracts via Remington.

I really don't think magpul has much to do with a lot of these failures, because it is diametrically opposed to most of their recently stated doctrine, ex. be aggressive enough quickly enough, do not betray the brand, annoy the establishment, etc.

And in the end, it's all about .mil contracts right? We might all be out of the loop if another AWB hits, maybe in a few years. But if they get the .mil contracts, they stay alive for decades, and the ACR never goes away. So right now, in our political/economic climate, maybe we, the individuals, are expendable.

I don't think we're going to see much of anything resembling an official statement if this price turns out to be correct.

Even if Bushmaster is completely f***ing everything up with this pricing and taking Magpul by surprise, Magpul still has a vested  interest in not rocking the boat.

If one party calls the other out publicly, neither wins.

I just hope this pricing is BS, because it is  BS.

ETA: If I sound like I'm disparaging Magpul at all, that is not my intent. Magpul is an excellent company with the best products of their respective types on the market.

Cheers to them for brining a new weapon system to market. No matter what price it's set at that is a tremendous accomplishment.

Magpul dont give a shit. They sold us all out to BM long ago. They will get rich no matter what.

I'm interesting in buying one but not at any price more than $2000 (which is what a KAC SR15 cost). They can keep it if it's approaching $3000. I'd rather have one of the new .308s that are coming out recently (LaRue, LMT, LWRC) for that price or save $1000 and buy another SR15. It's a shame if this pricing turns out to be true. There is a huge market waiting for these things but most will be pushed out at that price. I also don't understand why they chose a 1/9 instead of 1/7. I'm no longer as excited and think I'll move on to something else now (as I'm sure many others will).

Lots of fail in this statement.

Had Magpul not partnered with Bushmaster, the rifle would probably STILL be in the development phase or languishing completely.

And what's wrong with coming up with a great idea and making a good living off of it? You must be a union member.

I don't like the price, but I'm not stupid enough to make comments such as the one above in red.

I never said there was anything wrong with Magpul making money. Thats what they are here for. Do you realy think they give two shits about any of us?

They could have contracted a manufacturer to build the thing and then stamped Magpul on it but they were smart. They sold the idea and got paid up front. Part of the deal was that Magpul gets to sell them all the plastic. Simple economics. I say... Way to go Magpul!. But BM will not see a penny from me.

Wouldn't Bushmaster lose out with a AWB even if they maintained AR-15 sales over the ACR sales?

Also, the AR-15 market is pretty well flooded. I still have three Colt AR-15's (sold a couple others) and I'm not planning on getting another, especially a Bushmaster. Most of the people here are in the same boat. The have one or two or six... Those that want a cheap Bushmaster AR-15 are still going to buy them. Afterall it's the same type of rifle used by our Military and that will make people buy them. Especially those people that are new to guns. The people who would buy a ACR are generally going to be experience shooters and people that have Ar's so they technically would be gaining sales from those people buying ACR's rather then losing sales.

Personally I think the best option from an economic standpoint would be to sell as many of the latest and greatest (ACR) as possible at a low but profitable price point. That way they would make a ton off of eveyone getting the new latest and greatest toys. Just on ar15.com alone 8 out of 10 people posting here (just a rough guess) already have AR's, don't intend on buying a Bushmaster AR-15 and were planning on dropping $1500-1900 to get an ACR so they could have the newest kid on the block in the gun safe. Now maybe  2/10 (if that_ people here are willing to buy one at that price. That takes away 80% of the market= EPIC FAIL!  So, they actually would be better off selling a ton of these if they expected a AWB

But It's been a few years since I took marketing and economics in college so I might be wrong....

I am just so damn disappointed-  I was telling all my friends about the ACR , "it's coming out soon, gotta have one!"

But at 3k it looks like a negligible price benifit over a Tier 1 AR-

Keep in mind guys $2700 list = about $2100 street price once they are in stock everywhere and pricing gets competitive like the AR market.   20-23% off list seems normal for BM AR's from what I have seen on the net.

Look on the bright side....   if what everyone is saying is true and they dont sell like hot cakes at full MSRP, the intro mayhem pricing/gouging at full list price should fade fast and $2100 basic models and $2300 advanced model will be available pretty soon.

If dealers are being quoted $2100 for the basic version, you're not likely to see them for sale for less than $2200-2500.  I could POSSIBLY justify buying one at $1600-1800 for the enhanced version, but no way in hell can I justify paying $2500-3000 for one.  Makes it easy to practice fiscal discipline and use the money to reduce credit card debt instead.










 

I still won't be buying one at $2000.

You are not the only one...

IF I was gonna spent $3k on a rifle, I'd get a full pimp .308....like the LaRue OBR or Noveske N6.

Without a name like FN, Colt, or HK on it, or any .mil adoption, or any of the uber-precise hand work and extreme accuracy of the .308's above ...   I think sales will fizzle pretty fast after the initial rush.   Doubly so if there are ANY issues with the first run of them.

I think you are wrong. Bushmaster needed a new product to get away from depending on AR15/M16 sales. Everyone and their brother is selling AR15s right now for prices that would have given BM a coronary a few years ago. With a basic M4 clone selling for $625 at gunshows and stripped lowers down to $50, the corporation is going to need to pull a serious rabbit out of it's ass if it is going to keep shareholders happy with earnings anything like the previous years.

IMO, there will always be demand for AR15's in the USA, but for now, the market is near saturation point. Gotta have something different to sell, and that is the ACR.

Well, cooperations have been known to buy rights to products that run counter to their own business model and tank them on purpose so as not to hurt their niche.  It is dirty and low down, but it is also capitalism.