I have a thing for trying to balance precision and cost.
I know there is a direct correlation between cost/quality/accuracy.
I'm not expecting to make clover leaf groups, but I don't want to pay thousands of dollars.

I've been working on a Palmetto PA10,  and I've been able to achieve between 1-2 MOA with it.
I just swapped out the barrel for a brand new Ballistic Advantage, .308 14.5", carbine gas system, with a pinned/welded YHM QD mount.
I have a Superlative Arms adjustable gas block, that's not yet I'm place cause im waiting on the Gas tube.

So what's everyone say? Assuming I did my part and installed everything correctly, and do my part with technique, using FGMM, what will it shoot?


ETA Looking for theoretical or opinionated guesses for fun.

ETA. https://www.graniteridgeoutfitters.com/Ballistic-Advantage-145-308-Tactical-Government-Carbine-Barrel-BABL308002M.htm

This barrel

Interesting poll topic.  I don't think you can predict much of anything about accuracy due to all the variables you could encounter in your barrel swap and other components...not to mention the shooter's capability.  I don't say that in a snarky, dismissing manner, either.  You just won't know until you shoot it.

Also if I recall, BA makes at least 3 quality level tiers for most of their barrels, so there's that to consider also.  Not sure what they offered or claimed for the barrel you mention here.  BA claims a 1-MOA guarantee on some of their barrels, but realistically those marketing claims rely on several other factors.

Like mentioned, lots of variables. BA makes good barrles. I have a Modern 18” SPR in 5.56mm and it shoots way better then I can shoot. Can only do 1.5” @ 100 yards. My buddy though, can do 1” and better with it.

Not .308's, but....

I have two 18" AR's.  Set up very similar, scopes, free floated, fixed stocks, aftermarket triggers, etc.

One is the complete PSA upper and one I built with a BA barrel.

I really, up to this point, don't see a difference in them but I've not shot any match ammo in either one.

One barrel to the next, one rifle to the next, anything can happen.

Hard to predict .

You could buy/build five identical rifles and they might all shoot very similar , they might cover a wide range or most could be similar with one or two duds or standouts.

Triggers could be slightly different , chambers could be cut slightly different , crowns could be cut slightly different , barrel blanks could be from a different batch .

Proof is in the shooting and while FGMM is good stuff generally but you might find a different bullet shines

I'd say it probably won't shoot any better than the FN barrel it had. My 18"would only shoot 2-3"groups with fgmm. But it got 1.2" with hornady sst. Although i will revisit the sierra match king bullet some day in a hand load.

This group was hornady sst165gr with the factory barrel

FMJ's around 4 moa.

168 grain Match King's under 1.5 moa.

I use 70 foot pounds of torque on .308's and glue the barrel extension inside the upper with 609/620 Loctite.

I should clearify I'm really not expecting anyone to know what it'll shoot.
This post/poll was merely for fun.

I did true the receiver face (not sure if it did anything), and installed the barrel, initially with a thin metal tape, which upon inserting 99% scraped off, leaving just a few low spots. Then I gave it light coating of loctite (not sure which one).

I was shooting about 4MOA with Malaysian Surp, and I was able to shoot about 2 MOA with 168 FGMM (did get one group that was sub, but not repeatable) with the original PSA barrel.

Hoping for an improvement with this barrel. Hopefully I can update after this weekend.

Finally got everything done, and my can in. I gotta say I LOVE the set up.

I'm getting about 2"-3" groups with 168gr FGMM.
It's a 1:10 barrel.

Anybody think 175gr ammo might perform better?

I know get out there and do it. I'm stocked up on 168's, and to have just a box of 175gr isnt efficient and I'm not firmiliar with a local places that'll have 175 match grade ammo.

Before I order some, any thoughts?

How many rounds through the BA barrel so far?  The reason I ask is because I bought a CLE AR15 barrel with hopes of great accuracy.  The first groups I shot with the gun I was disappointed.  However, after what seemed like an initial break in period, the barrel settled down and began to shoot well.  With relatively inexpensive PPU 75 grn HPBT it's a pretty consistent 1 to 1.25 MOA.  That's not Bartlein or Kreiger territory, but I haven't tried reloading for the gun, either.

Not to sound like a dickhead, but you’re trying to get high dollar results out of a low budget build.

You may end up chasing your tail trying to get that gun to shoot sub moa.

That’s not to mention shooting a short barrel 308 gas gun is a whole different animal entirely. Your fundamentals need to be on point or every error is going to be amplified as it is a very unforgiving configuration.

If you’re looking to shoot sub minute with an auto loader and do it cheap, I would sell that setup and buy an Aero M5 upper and lower and build it with a good barrel and matched bolt. Bartlien, Kreiger, or Criterion are great options.

That's exactly what I'm trying to do. Best results for the lowest price.
I'm not expecting sub MOA. I would LIKE MOA, but I realize 2 MOA is more realistic, and if I can get between 1 and 2 I'll be thrilled.

Very interesting topic, OP.

Best value build cost vs accuracy. How much would you say you have into the build as it is setup now? I'm interested in a .308 AR-10 platform system, but i am only in the conceptual phase, i.e. build vs buy, how much i want to spend, barrel length, that sort of shit.

btw, voted in your poll and got the right answer since i was late to the party and read your results before voting. nice.

I'd add a heavy buffer and a flat tubbs spring.  How's the barrel when you clean it? Any tough/rough spots?  Is accuracy better after cleaning but degrades within a couple groups or vice versa?  

I struggled with this on a 6.5 BA for a couple hundred rounds before running 10 final finish rounds through it.  After that it's a hammer.  I've heard others say that BA barrels can be a bit rough and need some break-in.

Good question.

I know I got a complete gun from PSA for around $700 a few years back.
Since then I have installed the Ballistic Armament 14.5" barrel which was on sale for around $200 if I remember.
Added a heavy buffer/enhanced spring off the EE, prob like $35.
And a Superlative Arms adjustable gas block, again off the EE, prob $70 or so.

I added a Primary arms 5x, cause I see this as more of a DMR role than a precision rifle. That was either used or on sale, I'd assume around $250.

Most expensive part is the YHM suppressor.



All of my guns are budget builds. I feel like anyone can shell out a few grand and get a rifle that shoots sub MOA. But cobbling together used/on sale parts and making something that shoots respectable is cool.

Would be interesting to see how the 14.5" kicks into the whole problem.

Another thing to consider is the distance you are shooting.

Some of the hot shot competition guys I know talk about long range bullets needing to "settle down" . In other words a great bullet/load that may shoot .75MOA
on a 300 or 400 yard range may only 2 or 3 MOA at 100 yards. Not real intuitive but they claim the bullet wanders around a bit before it "settles".


Along the same lines many of the guys shooting service rifle matches on reduced courses (all targets shot at 100yds ) will set aside the 70+ and 69 gr bullets and use the 52 or 53 gr sierra bullets for the match because they outshoot anything at 100 yds

Interesting. I just ordered some M118LR, and I'll give it a good cleaning and see.

Maybe it's too dirty. Maybe it's just not broken in.

Either way it'll be fun trying to figure it out.

No.

Bryan Litz can't prove it and has yet to pay travel costs to someone who could. German Salazar doesn't believe in it.

.224 50gr class is used because of cost and perhaps barrel life.

You sir are far more knowledgeable than I on this subject, but benchrest grade .224 bullets for 100 yards in the 52-53 grain weight can be manufactured with greater precision with a flat base.  Boat tail bullets have no advantage at 100 yards, but Berger claims their flat base bullets are more accurate in part because they can be made to tighter tolerances than their boat tail ulcers.  That’s saying a lot.   I think they may be right and ought to know.

All I can say is that the Berger 52 grain FB Target bullets are like little lasers at 100 yards.  Easily sub 1/2 MOA repeatable five shot groups at 100 in my Lilja barreled precision AR in Lapua cases loaded over a relatively mild charge of H4895.  And, I suspect (no, I know) that I am the limiting factor.  An experienced benchrest shooter could probably take my rifle and this load down into the low .3s.

Every barrel has its preferences, but those Berger 52s are more accurate than my best efforts with 53 grain SMKs, which are boat tail.  Sierra makes a flat base 52, but I’ve not tried it.  Berger bullets are pricey.

As to OP’s AR10 barrel and possible match ammo I can’t say whether flat base .308 target bullets shoot better at shorter distance, especially 100 yards.  I don’t have a barrel good enough to tease out those differences.  I think the gold standard bullet for 100 yard .308 target shooting is the Berger 150 Flat Base Target, but I’ve not tried it.

Nothing wrong with your approach, but you probably need to consider just dropping in a true match barrel from Kreiger, Bartlein or Lilja in your current build.  Bed it properly and you will be amazed at the difference when you feed it match ammo.

You can be very budget conscious, as you have done, but If you spend a few hundred more on the barrel, you will see a world of difference between the best BA barrel and a Kreiger, Bartlein or Lilja with match ammo.

I agree, a few hundred dollars more would get me better accuracy, but I wasn't financially prepared to do that.

In the future I may upgrade to a match grade barrel, but for now I am happy with the 2-3" groups I'm getting, esp since it's more intended as a DMR then precision rifle.

May as well get the 115 for lower barrel movement during barrel time.

For .30 cal, I'm a knockoff yellow box shooter. The Speer 125gr TNT is the best value short range bullet.

Man I seen a TC contender in .30/30win produce some unreal groups with that bullet and a modest charge of 748.