User Panel
Posted: 8/14/2018 3:11:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge]
The purpose of this thread will be to document the precision and reproducibility of various barrels. While I have had good luck with several of the barrels currently at my disposal, I’m not biased to a particular brand/manufacturer. At the end of the day, I just want a barrel/rifle that will shoot. Doesn’t matter to me whose roll mark is on the tube. Cost effectiveness is always a plus though, for me and likely many of you reading this thread, so I’ll try to include street prices along with the results.
Testing: Testing will be at 100yds minimum, using a bipod and rear bag. Note: this isn’t specifically for the MOA challenge, but the rear bags will likely conform to the rules. I don’t own any V style benchrest bags. Ammunition:Tests will be conducted using factory match ammo as well as handloads. If there are specific match loads or reload recipes that you’d like to see tested, feel free to leave a request and I’ll see what I can do, provided that the request appears safe. Optics: All optics used for testing will be suitable for getting the most out of the barrels. Vortex, NF with a minimum top end of 20x. Triggers: All triggers used will be match/target 2 stage triggers, with a 3.5lb or less pull. Sorry HP guys... Groups: All groups will be a minimum of 5 shots (unless load development), with a minimum of 3 consecutive groups. I’ll strive for 5 groups, but based on the potential number of barrels/ammo combinations, the ammo costs could prohibit such extensive testing. Current barrels: LaRue Stealth, 5.56, 16”, 1:8 (in house produced, non LW) LaRue Stealth, 224 Valkyrie, 1:7 Rainier Arms Ultramatch, 223 Wylde 18”, intermediate gas, 1:8 Shilen blank Rainier Arms Ultramatch, 223 Wylde 18”, intermediate gas, 1:8 Shilen blank Daniel Defense, chrome lined, Govt profile, 1:7 Rainier Arms, Match, 223 Wylde, 16”, 1:8 Rock River Arms, 223 Wylde, 16”, 1:8 (std. barrel, not varmint or PP) Ballistic Advantage, 6.5 Grendel, SPR, 18”, 1:8 Ballistic Advantage, 6.5 Creedmoor, 22” (non-fluted), 1:8 X-Caliber, 6.5 Grendel, 18”, 1:8 Falkor Defense/Dracos, 6.5 Creedmoor, 22”, 1:8 Falkor Defense/Dracos, 6 Creedmoor, 22”, 1:8 Krieger 223wylde, 20”, 1:7.7 BCA 223wylde, Nitride fluted 18” mid length 1:7t Rainier Match, 18” RLG, 1:8 (new version, Black Friday sale) Rainier Rock Creek, 1:8twist 18” intermediate gas (.936 gb) Rainier Arms Ultramatch 24” 1:7.5t 224Valkyrie Rainier Arms Ultramatch Fluted 24” 1:7.5t 224Valkyrie Proof 18” +1 gas 6mm ARC The Falkor builds have been placed on the back burner for the time being. They are a higher price point and aren’t the typical first choice for most shooters. They also have predator optics on them currently and it’s a pain to readjust/remount. Other barrels: If there are other barrels that you would like to see tested, please let me know. Obviously I can’t just purchase barrels for the sake of this thread, but there may be some that I was already interested in and you could help to push me to place an order. Also, if you have a barrel or upper you’d like tested, reach out to me and we may be able to work something out. If anyone has any questions or suggestions to the format of the testing, please feel free to send me an IM. I’d like to keep the thread mostly for ammo/ barrel suggestions and discussion of the results. |
|
|
|
I have a 20" Krieger with 3500+ rounds and a 18 Criterion with <200 rounds I can send to you if you want those data points.
|
|
|
|
|
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Thank you! Assistance is appreciated. View Quote With about how many rounds wanted, shipping address, etc... bullet weight preferences... ( I'd kinda like to throw some MEN 56gr FMJ, Pretty darned accurate in my rifles, considering it is ball, at you as well.. but fully understand if you'd rather use a certain bullet weight'ish ) Thank You for doing all this. |
|
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. |
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: I may give those a try. I mainly shoot longer distance, but those may be good for intermediate paper fun. I don’t necessarily believe in bullets going to sleep since I don’t understand how gyroscopic stability increases once a bullet leaves the muzzle, but I may need to read up more on the subject. I’ve had great results with 73 eld-m’s and 75hpbt from a few rifles. The 73 eld-m is my go to bullet for my girlfriends rifle. View Quote On the other hand, Berger's longer range bullets, being of boat-tail design and having far better BC, are much less affected by wind, which becomes a factor at longer ranges. By that reasoning, flat based, lighter, lower BC bullets can be made closer to their standard of perfection than the longer, heavier high BC bullets, but lose ground in practical accuracy at longer distances due to the effect of wind. I honestly don't know. I do know that my rifle loves the flat based 52 Bergers when shooting for groups at 100 yards. |
|
|
All good info !
I hope my BA 22" 6.5CM gets its "act together"... ( even if it was a poor upper to lower fit ), yours if even a "sample of one 5rd group" would be very promising to me. I'll see if the tightening of the upper and lower fitment did the job. |
|
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. |
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Guess we’ll call this a teaser. Wasn’t real thrilled with how I did on the last outing, so I brought the creedmoor and 5 rds for this last trip. Maybe it’s not cherry picking if you only fired five rounds for the day? https://i.imgur.com/uGkjTFp.jpg Let the girlfriend run an AR (Ultramatch) with 3 factory loads as well. The consensus is that these barrels shoot! https://i.imgur.com/n1hWWJU.jpg Gratuitous pic of her during testing. https://i.imgur.com/UksStOv.jpg View Quote |
|
|
Originally Posted By MS556: Beautiful! The rifle's not too shabby, either! View Quote Battery died before the 5th shot... (shots begin 31 seconds in, right target, top left) Better Half MOA practice |
|
|
Special thanks to Bfoosh06 and Lennyo3034 for helping to give this project additional data points. Bfoosh06 has gratiously offered to assist with a variety of factory ammo and Lennyo3034 has offered up barrel(s) to test.
Thank you both for your generosity. |
|
|
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Special thanks to Bfoosh06 and Lennyo3034 for helping to give this project additional data points. Bfoosh06 has gratiously offered to assist with a variety of factory ammo and Lennyo3034 has offered up barrel(s) to test. Thank you both for your generosity. View Quote FYI.. you should be getting some of the ammo today and the other tomorrow. And no rush at all.. just wanted you to have it on hand, rather then waiting on ammo. I sent some 55gr FMJ's that have proven to be more precise from my barrels... MEN, GECO ( .223 and 5.56 ) simply for cheaper fodder at 100yds. And, just to keep others in the loop, this ammo was sent. MEN 56gr FMJ 5.56 IMI 77gr 5.56... watch the primers ! IMI can be great and poor. Horn. 62gr BTHP 5.56 GECO .223 55gr FMJ GECO 5.56 55gr FMJ Horn. 75gr Steel Match .223 CBC / Magtech 77gr 5.56 |
|
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. |
Ammo Porn... ya gotta love it.
|
|
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. |
|
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
A few more items arrived. The 75 eld’s are for my GF’s bolt gun that I hope to get slapped together this weekend, but I may try them single loaded in a few of the 223 AR’s till the 224Valkyrie begins to breath fire! https://i.imgur.com/9RgpRgH.jpg The Krieger has landed https://i.imgur.com/jgFr0Fs.jpg View Quote Unfortunately, its quite shot out now. It's still decently accurate at 100 yards but doesn't hold that accuracy at distance. Steel pins getting shot down the bore didn't help things either. |
|
|
Given the IMI is 5.56 pressure... those results are pretty danged good for "Mil-Spec" bulk'ish ammo.
|
|
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. |
I'm interested in seeing the results of the Magtech 77s. I've heard others say it doesn't shoot well but it does great in my rifle.
|
|
|
Originally Posted By RFutch:
I'm interested in seeing the results of the Magtech 77s. I've heard others say it doesn't shoot well but it does great in my rifle. View Quote It's not terrible, but I also probably wouldn't classify it as true "match" grade ammo. |
|
|
I did a 5x5 average and it was .84 moa. If I throw out one round that I called it would be .77 moa. Green mountain 20” fluted Barrel.
|
|
|
|
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Given the IMI is 5.56 pressure... those results are pretty danged good for "Mil-Spec" bulk'ish ammo. View Quote Haven’t shot a tactical style event in almost 2yrs and managed to finish in 2nd place. I’d like to think that I would have done better with handloads, but I doubt the IMI ammo was holding me back much. |
|
|
2790 seems low for an 18” barrel. I was pushing 2900 with a 20” barrel so I’d expect closer to 2850 for an 18”.
|
|
|
Originally Posted By Lennyo3034:
2790 seems low for an 18” barrel. I was pushing 2900 with a 20” barrel so I’d expect closer to 2850 for an 18”. View Quote The thread on SH that you posted in was what I used to gather velocity guesstimates on. |
|
|
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Yea, your speed seems to be faster than most. The thread on SH that you posted in was what I used to gather velocity guesstimates on. View Quote That's out of a CLE match chamber, not sure about the impact of that to overall velocity. |
|
|
CLE is a shallower leade .223 Rem.
2850fps is damn fast from a 20". 23.8gr H4895 under moly'd 77s gave 2800, I backed down to 23.5gr for approx 2750. Partly for safety, partly to match TSRA Junior spec. 2900 is asking for trouble. |
|
Distinguished Rifleman #2223
#BraddersIsFreed "Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara |
Any new results ? ... Just curious, not trying to be pushy.
|
|
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. |
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Any new results ? ... Just curious, not trying to be pushy. View Quote |
|
|
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Unfortunately not. Every day that I’ve had free over the past few weeks it’s either been raining or I’ve had a prior engagement scheduled. I should be getting out to the range this weekend or over the holiday break. View Quote Over the fall.. they amount to about 3500lbs of dry leaves.... ( yes, measured at the reclamation center... Ugh. ) I am convinced I could fully bury the truck with the seasons worth. If I could just figure out how to use all of them as targets.... |
|
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. |
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
It looks like there’s little chance of rain after lunch tomorrow, so I plan on testing the RA Match, the Krieger (thanks again Lenny) and possibly the 2nd RA Ultramatch. Also have to function check the Nucleus build I just finished tonight for my gf and chrono a few loads for her 223 bolt gun. RA Match https://i.imgur.com/YeKyayx.jpg Krieger https://i.imgur.com/k7NjthO.jpg View Quote |
|
|
Very Nice !! ... You must be on Santa's "Good Guy" list... Lol
|
|
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. |
This is really good stuff, man. I'm truly inspired to due a precision SPR 5.56 build.
I'm thinking I might spend the dough for a Bartlein barrel as they have an SPR 5.56 profile available and seem to be under represented around here. Wringing one out might be fun. I have a Vltor MUR lying around that has been crying about not having a home. |
|
"Have a smile for breakfast, you'll be shitting joy by lunch.” - Joe Abercrombie
|
.16" 5 shot group... awesome.
|
|
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. |
Did the .224V Larue ship with a target? If so, what did it look like and what ammo did they use?
|
|
"Have a smile for breakfast, you'll be shitting joy by lunch.” - Joe Abercrombie
|
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Additional LaRue Stealth, Ballistic Advantage 6.5 Creedmoor and.....Bear Creek Arsenal results have been added to Post #3. View Quote Can give the Criterion barrel below a test run? It is barrel being used by USMC Combat Shooting Team and US Army Marksmanship Unit Action Shooting Team. 24.0 grain Varget tipped with 77 grain Sierra Match King HPBT 24.5 grain Varget tipped with 69 grain SMK HPBT Criterion Hybrid Contour Barrel |
|
|
Originally Posted By USMC_JA:
Did the .224V Larue ship with a target? If so, what did it look like and what ammo did they use? View Quote I’ll pull the 224VALKYRIE barrel in the next few days and install the Rainier Match barrel that was purchased during the Black Friday sale in the same build (upper receiver, gas block, rail) to see how it performs. I want to confirm there’s no issue with the other components before attempting to send the Valkyrie back to the manufacturer for inspection. |
|
|
Molon did a bunch of stuff like this before he stopped posting. It bet it would be worth wild to check out his work. Bet there is a lot of useful information that would help you out on this quest. I know he pissed of a few company's cause their barrels ended up not shooting as good as the claimed.
Scott |
|
Shut the front door.
|
Nice! If you’re going to keep that barrel in the upper for a bit longer, I can try sending ammo again. It liked my handloads more than anything else.
It was shooting it decently when I pulled the barrel. Main issue was velocity loss made me struggle at 800 compared to the 6/6.5 CMs I was competing against. I tried bumping the powder charge to regain some velocity, but quickly ran into pressure signs. My load of 77 TMKs dropped from 2780 to 2690, not ideal at distance with any wind. |
|
|
Btw if you bore scope that barrel, you will find dings all throughout the bore. My dumb ass accidentally shot steel pins from wet tumbling media down it. They were getting stuck in cases without me realizing.
I had it borescoped while at PVA and Josh was very surprised it was shooting as well as it was. |
|
|
The Hornady 75gr Steel Match gives great bang for your buck, IMHO.
And impressive results from the Magtech, most 5.56 "Match" loaded ammo is just over 1 MOA . |
|
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. |
Originally Posted By JLS81: @SuperJlarge Can give the Criterion barrel below a test run? It is barrel being used by USMC Combat Shooting Team and US Army Marksmanship Unit Action Shooting Team. 24.0 grain Varget tipped with 77 grain Sierra Match King HPBT 24.5 grain Varget tipped with 69 grain SMK HPBT Criterion Hybrid Contour Barrel View Quote |
|
|
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
The Hornady 75gr Steel Match gives great bang for your buck, IMHO. And impressive results from the Magtech, most 5.56 "Match" loaded ammo is just over 1 MOA . View Quote So far the IMI and Magtech have done well, and better in some barrels compared to others. I’m keeping track of the COAL and BTO measurements of the ammo tested so that forum members can try and replicate the loads or have a general starting point for seating depth. Thanks once again for your generous contribution of ammo to assist in this testing. My admiration for your generosity can’t be overstated. |
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.