User Panel
User Panel
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USA
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Posted: 9/29/2021 8:58:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
My existing Leupold will only focus down to 50 yards, so I'm looking around for a new scope to put on my rimfire rifle.
I want one that focuses at a very close distance (~10 yd) but still has high magnification (~25X). I found a few but know nothing about their optical quality. Vortex Diamondback Tactical (25X) Leupold EFR (20X) Athlon Argos (24X) Are there others? Anyone know about their optical quality and repeatability of the turrets? ETA - I'm going to summarize my requirements here - Good-great glass – flat field, no chromatic aberration, high resolution, ~10-15 yard minimum parallax Simple reticle MOA adjustments ~20X upper magnification (15X seems too low) 30 mm tube preferred (have the rings - $100) Price <$1k (but flexible) Lifetime warranty Excellent, reliable tracking Light weight (<~24 ounces) Availability - I can't buy something that is not available due to these "supply chain issues". <-- I never expected this to be an issue. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/25/2021 2:00:56 AM EDT
[#1]
I contacted Leupold and was disappointed because they do not have a date when the EFR scope will be available. :-(
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:17:12 PM EDT
[#2]
I went ahead and purchased the Athlon Argos BTR Gen 2 6-24X. I couldn't find a sale on it but it was $310. I went ahead and ordered a scope level as well. I can 3D print a throw lever for it.
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USA
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Posted: 11/27/2021 2:21:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#3]
In looking for alternates for the Leupold EFR, I revisited the Athlon Midas TAC HD because it was approximately the same MSRP as the Leupold EFR ($850).
I just have no idea what optical quality I would be getting with that scope. Also, it seems the makers hang a lot of junk on the scopes (unwanted features such as illumination, Christmas tree reticle, resettable zero stops), and raise the price but may not be raising optical quality. I'm not in a rush, so if the Leupold shows up in the market place,... |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:45:00 AM EDT
[#4]
I just got a Meopta https://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/us/produkt/optika5-2-10x42-pa-16172/
I got a 2x10 but the have a 3x15 and 4x40. I have all brands of glass… Swarovski, Steiner, Leupold, Burris, Nikon… this is super glass. I am going to pick up a 3x15 or 4x20 Reticle is different. A tiny dot in the center, but I pick up quickly. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 11:51:09 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Also, it seems the makers hang a lot of junk on the scopes (unwanted features such as illumination, Christmas tree reticle, resettable zero stops), and raise the price but may not be raising optical quality. Unwanted by you but the majority using the scopes asked for and wanted those features and why they sell so good. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 12:34:46 PM EDT
[#6]
I have been fortunate to mount a lot of scopes for people the last few years, and have upgraded a lot of my personal stuff as well. I just received my Razor Gii 3-18x50 MOA with the EBR-7c reticle, I have not mounted it yet because I’m not sure if I’m going to keep it
 I have two Bushnell Forge 2.5-15x50mm FFP MOA reticles on two of my .22s, and while nowhere near the Razor, the glass is sufficiently crisp at 15x, much clearer than Diamondback and Strike Eagles I’ve handled. My biggest reason for being unsure about the Razor, while it obviously feels like, and is, a high end piece of gear, is the cluttered center point of the reticle, to my eyes. The Forge scopes have a roughly 1/2 MOA floating dot in the center, with 2 moa open in eaxh direction, then a relatively clean dot style christmas tree. It’s easy to adjust holdovers at .22 ranges, I was using this for holds on 8” and 10” plates at 285 yards this week, and it was precise enough for solid hits. I’ve found there is no ideal scope/reticle combo for everything. I love the fine duplex on my Leupold 6.5-20x EFR that’s going on my Anschutz this week for precise target shooting, but it would not be ideal for 45 moa holdovers trying to ring steel at 285 yards. The Vortex EBR-4 reticle on the PST Gen II 2-10x32 is a nice simple center crosshair surrounded by useful holdovers, but you can’t get it on the 3-15 or 5-25. I’d also prefer if they had locking turrets like the Forge and Razors. Shooting the 25 yard tackdriver challenge is ok with a 15x, and I’ve gone 23/25 with my T-Bolt and a 3-9x33 efr Leupold with fine duplex, it was definitely harder to keep centered on those tiny center dots. Out ringing 8” steel at 285 yards I made 3 hits on 2.5x just to see if I could, and 10-12x was sufficient. That 8” plate at 285 is a 4” at 142 yards, 2” at 71 yards, and 1” at 35 yards. I was also not going for groups, just hits. If I was going for a tight group at 35 yards i’d want 15-20x minimum, and a pinprick aiming point. |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 1:15:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Try the Razor on the rifle. When you put that little dot on a 1/4” dot at 50 yards you won’t think it’s cluttered.
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Posted: 11/28/2021 1:28:09 PM EDT
[#8]
I've got a 10X SWFA SS on my .22. It focusses down to close ranges and I can ring the 200 m gong all day by holding up 18 MOA
They are on sale right now |
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USA
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Posted: 12/2/2021 3:44:35 PM EDT
[#9]
I made a preliminary selection of the Leupold 6.5-20X 40mm EFR. The thing is, no one has them in stock, at all. Leupold has no estimated delivery date, either.
It is somewhat strange - the 100% Chicom brands are readily available, whereas, the Made In USA brands are not. I've started to re-visit all the other scopes with availability being a key trait. 
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Posted: 12/2/2021 3:55:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Meopta is Czech made. Should be available.
I too bought that Leupold with the EFR…. It is a target scope. I am hunting with mine. If You need high magnification for targets, the Leupold may be perfect. I run 2x for FOV and 6 on zoom. I do run 16 at 800 yards… plenty for me but again, application dictates. Still recommending Meopta if you have not looked at them. I am impressed with their clarity. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/3/2021 12:26:30 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mfinaustin: Meopta is Czech made. Should be available. I too bought that Leupold with the EFR…. It is a target scope. I am hunting with mine. If You need high magnification for targets, the Leupold may be perfect. I run 2x for FOV and 6 on zoom. I do run 16 at 800 yards… plenty for me but again, application dictates. Still recommending Meopta if you have not looked at them. I am impressed with their clarity. Will go czech them out, again. <-- bad pun, sorry. |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 1:26:10 AM EDT
[#12]
My Athlon Argos 6-24 showed up today. I'm pleased with the features, and surprised at how fine the FFP reticle remains at 24X.
But, it has the weird effect where parts of the reticle are not in sharp focus all at once. This is the only FFP scope I have, so it might be something to do with my eyes (I need reading glasses and have astigmatism). Or it might be something wrong with the scope. It's hard to describe, but after adjusting the diopter so the center of the reticle is in sharp focus, as you look farther away from the center, there is a ring shaped band that is out of focus, and then it gets sharp again at the very edges of the reticle. Weird. I might call them and ask if it's normal tomorrow. |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 12:12:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Will go czech them out, again. <-- bad pun, sorry. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Originally Posted By Mfinaustin: Meopta is Czech made. Should be available. I too bought that Leupold with the EFR…. It is a target scope. I am hunting with mine. If You need high magnification for targets, the Leupold may be perfect. I run 2x for FOV and 6 on zoom. I do run 16 at 800 yards… plenty for me but again, application dictates. Still recommending Meopta if you have not looked at them. I am impressed with their clarity. Will go czech them out, again. <-- bad pun, sorry. Another +1 for the Meopta Optika6. VERY nice for the $$. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/3/2021 1:07:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#14]
I reviewed the MEOPTA web site again.
Optika6 and MeoPro have 25 yd and 50 yard minimum distance. The MeoStars do not go above 15X. Optika5 has a 1" main tube but I have 30 mm rings. I'll keep looking until I can find a match. Your collective inputs in this thread and the searches have helped me develop and evolve/refine a set of requirements. That's good. Now, I just need to find a suitable scope that is for sale. |
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Posted: 12/3/2021 2:15:50 PM EDT
[#15]
I have multiple scopes that focus down to under 10m, can’t recall every using them set that low, ever. Even on air rifles. 25yard is close enough, unless you’re actually precision shooting at 10m of course. At lower powers the parallax is much less critical. I hit 24/25 on the 25 yard tackdriving challenge with a 3-9x33 efr with fine duplex, wasn’t super easy, but doable and my eyes are awful.
Think about how often you’re actually going to shoot for precision closer than 25 yards, and how much magnification you’d need to do so. I’d be fine if my Leupold 6.5-20x40 EFR only went down to 20 yards, it would save nearly a whole revolution of the AO ring, it focuses down to well under 10m, 7m if I recall correctly. Unless I’m trying to use a 18x at 10 meters on an air rifle,that’s a pointless feature. |
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Posted: 12/4/2021 12:50:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: I reviewed the MEOPTA web site again. Optika6 and MeoPro have 25 yd and 50 yard minimum distance. The MeoStars do not go above 15X. Optika5 has a 1" main tube but I have 30 mm rings. I'll keep looking until I can find a match. Your collective inputs in this thread and the searches have helped me develop and evolve/refine a set of requirements. That's good. Now, I just need to find a suitable scope that is for sale. Optika6, 3-18, 30mm tube, 10 yard parallax. In stock. |
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Posted: 12/4/2021 3:27:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryThat looks great, as long as the center dot is ‘t too big. I need a Meopta.... |
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USA
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Posted: 12/5/2021 3:06:50 PM EDT
[#18]
I spent some time looking this one over. Even though it is a little low in max magnification, the availability makes it very tempting.
What type of adjusters are under the caps? I did not see any images. I always dial in my windage and elevation changes and am wanting some sort of hand-adjustable turret. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 4:39:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MontstrSp: That looks great, as long as the center dot is ‘t too big. I need a Meopta.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MontstrSp: That looks great, as long as the center dot is ‘t too big. I need a Meopta.... I can't answer that. My 3-18 has the MRAD reticle, and is FFP. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 4:57:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: I spent some time looking this one over. Even though it is a little low in max magnification, the availability makes it very tempting. What type of adjusters are under the caps? I did not see any images. I always dial in my windage and elevation changes and am wanting some sort of hand-adjustable turret. My 5-30s are marked to 50, but go well past, and will focus to 20 or less. They are finger adjustable. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/5/2021 6:53:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#21]
This scope, which is in stock, does not have the large, target-style knobs. It does not show the type of adjusters it has, just the caps are seen.
Does anyone know what's under the caps?  The others, with the target-style adjusters, are either out of stock or only go down to 25 yards, minimum. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 1:55:45 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: This scope, which is in stock, does not have the large, target-style knobs. It does not show the type of adjusters it has, just the caps are seen. Does anyone know what's under the caps? https://images.eurooptic.com/images/products/meopta/meopta-optika6-3-18x50-rd-sfp-scope.jpg?w=1100 The others, with the target-style adjusters, are either out of stock or only go down to 25 yards, minimum. Can you download the user manual for it? It might have pictures or illustrations of the turrets under the caps. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:36:25 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: This scope, which is in stock, does not have the large, target-style knobs. It does not show the type of adjusters it has, just the caps are seen. Does anyone know what's under the caps? https://images.eurooptic.com/images/products/meopta/meopta-optika6-3-18x50-rd-sfp-scope.jpg?w=1100 The others, with the target-style adjusters, are either out of stock or only go down to 25 yards, minimum. A 10 second google search shows it’s the basic turret, with a slot for adjusting. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/11/2021 11:05:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: A 10 second google search shows it’s the basic turret, with a slot for adjusting. I spent over 1/2 hour watching videos and never saw the exact scope I was interest in with the covers taken off. If it has the large knurled knobs, I'm okay with that. I just don't want to have to use a nickel as a sight adjustment tool. ETA - Bah!, it is 25 yards minimum parallax. |
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Posted: 12/11/2021 11:40:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Have you looked at the Bushnell Engage line of scopes? Pretty good glass for the money, parallax to 10 yards. Several magnification options. I have one and really like it.
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USA
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Posted: 12/12/2021 3:15:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TN-MadDog: Have you looked at the Bushnell Engage line of scopes? Pretty good glass for the money, parallax to 10 yards. Several magnification options. I have one and really like it. I seem to be limited by what's available, so many are not. While looking for the Engage model, I found this Tac Optics model: Tac Optics 6-24X 50 mm - $676 (53% off) 
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MS, USA
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Posted: 12/12/2021 5:22:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MS556]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: I printed out some optical resolution targets and will take them with me to the range on my next trip. I will test my existing scopes using these targets. The USAF 1951 target yields a line pairs per millimeter value (a metric). The two others have similar points of reference. Because I am unable to obtain this type of info from the makers, I have to do it myself. I can compare my existing scopes and to any new scope I am considering. Of course, that means buying one and being at risk of damage while I test it. I may test more than one. If it sucks, I can return the scope for a refund. That's a good test protocol. I use USAF 1951 test chart/targets, too. I even have one taped to the far end of my barn on the back side of a roll up door. Its only 100 feet (about 33 yards) but still useful when doing initial scope setup. Resolving fine detail is an important factor, often overlooked. Even at 100 feet the finer detail on a USAF 1951 can be used to separate high quality optics from the wanna be one. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/12/2021 7:03:49 PM EDT
[#28]
I used the USAF 51 and another I printed out at 50 yards. These were scaled to maximum possible size to print on an 11X17" paper.
I tested my 6.5-20X Leupold and my 12X Lyman SuperTargetSpot. Both could resolve just about everything. Given the white background, I saw no chromatic aberration, either. I also tested a small MINOX spotting scope I own. I resolved almost everything but had significant barrel distortion and chromatic aberration at the edges, especially at max mag. I don't like this scope that much but it is more than adequate for its role (indoor 50 foot rimfire). |
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USA
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Posted: 12/17/2021 12:26:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#29]
I found another one - Trijicon Credo. I added it to the large picture post on page 1, as well.
I actually got to look thru one, too. Very respectable glass, totally functional reticle with stadia but not cluttered like a "christmas tree". 
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2021 12:55:57 AM EDT
[#30]
We have been VERY happy with Nikon FX1000 Black 4-16x50 mil/Mil illuminated. seriously nice glass and turrets for a bargain price.
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USA
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Posted: 12/24/2021 3:29:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#31]
I check in on the Leupold site every now and then to see if the 6.5-20X EFR scope is available.
Tonight was disappointing - they eliminated the scope from their offerings. It looks like I will be getting something else. Maybe that's good, as I will not have to wait for something that isn't ever coming. |
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Posted: 12/24/2021 10:33:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Should keep an eye out on the new Razor III.
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USA
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Posted: 12/24/2021 12:44:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Should keep an eye out on the new Razor III. Huh? Did I miss something on the Vortex web site? That is a $3k LPVO with parallax fixed at 150 yards. That's not what I am after at all. |
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Posted: 12/24/2021 1:24:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Huh? Did I miss something on the Vortex web site? That is a $3k LPVO with parallax fixed at 150 yards. That's not what I am after at all. It’ll be a 6-36x56 FFP optic…street price to be determined. Probably in the 2300-2800$ range if I was guessing. More info should come out after Shot show. 10yd min parallax, so it’s perfect for you. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2021 2:09:30 PM EDT
[#35]
I just got a Athlon Midas TAC 6-24x50 APRS3 FFP Mil from Amazon. $492.00. Hell of a deal.
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USA
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Posted: 12/24/2021 2:59:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TARFU: I just got a Athlon Midas TAC 6-24x50 APRS3 FFP Mil from Amazon. $492.00. Hell of a deal. What's under the windage adjustment cap, a knob knob with graduations or a coin slot or...? |
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Posted: 12/24/2021 3:34:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rob01]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Huh? Did I miss something on the Vortex web site? That is a $3k LPVO with parallax fixed at 150 yards. That's not what I am after at all. Yup because it’s not on the site yet hence why I said keep an eye out for and new. Lol Specs above and going to be a perfect long range Rimfire optic. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/24/2021 5:21:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Seems like more unobtanium. When is the SHOT Show?
It really doesn't matter. If you check my updated first post, you'll see I'm looking in the $1k range, or less. I waited a long time for the Leupold scope to appear only to have it withdrawn from the market (unobtanium). 
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2021 5:34:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: What's under the windage adjustment cap, a knob knob with graduations or a coin slot or...? Its a knob target turret graduated just like the top turret |
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Posted: 12/24/2021 5:35:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Seems like more unobtanium. When is the SHOT Show? It really doesn't matter. If you check my updated first post, you'll see I'm looking in the $1k range, or less. I waited a long time for the Leupold scope to appear only to have it withdrawn from the market (unobtanium). Only that way as it’s not released yet. Probably next month it will be out for sale. And with the NF ATCR in your list you better change that then too. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/24/2021 7:45:26 PM EDT
[#41]
I'll leave it there for "posterity".
In the absence of Leupold, there's still Trijicon, Meopta, Athlon,... |
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USA
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Posted: 12/24/2021 7:48:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dana: We have been VERY happy with Nikon FX1000 Black 4-16x50 mil/Mil illuminated. seriously nice glass and turrets for a bargain price. https://i.imgur.com/iO4bywM.jpg Unfortunately for me, that model is discontinued. I believe I read NIKON has left the scope market. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/29/2021 1:30:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#43]
I've been compiling the specifications for the scopes and comparing them to my requirements. I'm not finished but have made a lot of headway.
 If the scope has a red highlight, it means it falls short of my requirement. I included the Leupold only as a benchmark, as it is no longer available. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/29/2021 1:35:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#44]
I read a review and rebuttal today about the ARKEN SH4 scopes. The expression, "... like looking thru a milk bottle with the milk still in it ..." was used. Although it was debated, it was not refuted or retracted.
So, tell me, do all these lower-priced scope brands get their products from the same place in China? Are there any real differences between them with respect to optical quality? Optical quality - resolution, brightness, contrast, flatness of field, minimal chromatic aberration, not going dark and hazy as you zoom to max magnification. |
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Posted: 12/29/2021 1:45:36 PM EDT
[#45]
Look at airgun scopes
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USA
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Posted: 12/31/2021 5:37:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#46]
None of the air gun scopes I came across went to 20X. Do you have one in mind?
I already have enough scopes that seem to meet my requirements, especially so, if I accept 0.1 milliradian adjustments instead of just 1/4 MOA. I was given a LOT of good suggestions in this thread. I'm not in a rush because I don't want to make a mistake. I just need to select one, find a supplier and order it. I'm not in a rush because I don't want to make a mistake. |
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Posted: 12/31/2021 5:52:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: None of the air gun scopes I came across went to 20X. Do you have one in mind? I don't have any direct experience with scopes that powerful, but you'll find some here: https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/scopes/ |
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USA
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Posted: 12/31/2021 7:45:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#48]
I have spent some time today rating and ranking the scopes based on their specs and pricing. I have also found and correct a few mistakes in the table I posted above.
I used a raw score, scores with weighting factors and also a "bang for the buck" score (score/price). I gave optical quality for HD glass a 3X weighting factor and a 6X weighting factor for ED glass. While the relative placements changed depending upon which ranking system and weighting factors used, first place did not change in the "bang for the buck" scoring. I need to go thru the specs I used one more time. I especially need to double check the street prices and availability. Does anyone have personal experience with this scope - ATHLON Midas TAC 6-24×50 HD. It has a capped windage turret (which I do not like). What type of adjuster is under the cap? |
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USA
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Posted: 1/8/2022 4:00:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#49]
Somewhere along the way, I was advised to wait until after the SHOT Show. How long thereafter until the new products appear in the market, any idea?
Does anyone have personal experience with this scope - ATHLON Midas TAC 6-24×50 HD? Review? What type of adjuster is under the windage cap? |
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USA
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Posted: 1/9/2022 7:25:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#50]
This is an updated table for the scopes I am considering. It has a few more options than the earlier one and it has more data and corrected data in it.
I also added a scoring and ranking routine to it, as the data is voluminous and I did not want to make a simplistic mistake. I did 3 different methods of scoring to see what changes to the ranking would result. One method said availability was just one factor. Another said availability was a go/no-go. The last method did a "bang for the buck" (figure of merit) scoring. Optical quality is a discriminator for me but it did not overwhelm the scores and ranks. I added weighting factors to the scoring of optical quality - 1 for regular glass, 3 for HD glass and 6 for ED glass.  If you are able to read the chart, Nightforce ATACR scored very well - top of the heap. Where they lost out was in price - their bang for the buck was fairly low. I'm going to order a scope and see if I like it. I have optical resolution targets to perform tests of the new scope versus my Leupold. This will help me understand if the rankings are correct for a rimfire scope. If it sucks, I may just order the Nightforce ATACR and be done with it. Maybe I'll sell off my 50 yard limited Leupold scope to defray some of the cost. I could share the Nightforce between two rifles - one rimfire, one centerfire. |
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