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I wouldn't trust myself to measure a 2 degree delta with the Silva. The cheap whistles aren't going to give you better than +/- 5 degrees if you're lucky. Check-out your lensatic and then trust it. |
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I'd trust the lensatic cammenga over anything else.
Google a local orienteering course, or find some local boyscouts that know of one and find a declination station. That's going to be the closest you'll get to confirming it unless you have a buddy with survey equipment. Also, make sure you know what your magnetic dec is before you go confirm it. http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/img/DeclinationMap_US.png I already miss being good at that shit. |
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Unless you see snow outside, forget about declanation. By the way, the site airnav.com is a great source for current Wx, sunset/rise times and declanation.
Box the compass. Easiest way is to find somethign square (baseball diamond, city block (walking along the road side of the sidewalk, not against the building, football field, etc. Compass should change 90 deg with each turn. Or layout a fixed bearing with a GPS 2 deg is pretty good accurcary for most "survival" compases, I'd expect better from a USGI Lensatic or one of the better baseplate compases, My Sunyuto clinometer, is good within .5 degree, and the compass on my transit even better. I've have a mirrored Sunyuto fail, unfortuantaly it was the only compass I had with me on the trip (doing some site surveys, not hiking.) I don't know what demagantized it. |
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I'd trust the lensatic cammenga over anything else. Google a local orienteering course, or find some local boyscouts that know of one and find a declination station. That's going to be the closest you'll get to confirming it unless you have a buddy with survey equipment. Also, make sure you know what your magnetic dec is before you go confirm it. http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/img/DeclinationMap_US.png I already miss being good at that shit. http://imageshack.us/a/img577/3853/n9om.jpg View Quote How about printing off a local topo map and checking azimuth and setting declination from local landmarks? Cheap compasses aren't for geocaching precision, they are for panic azimuth. 5 to 10 degrees accuracy is fine. "If you get lost, walk in the general north direction, and within five miles miles you will come to the forest service road you parked on. Walk east until you get to the car." |
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I personally like the orienteering compasses so I would tend to believe the Silva. The compasses on the whistles are toys and should be treated as such. Just a point based on one of the earlier posts, declination varies much more in an east west direction than north south (at the mid latitudes at least). The zero line is near Chattanooga Tn and just taking a look at a map on my wall, it's 10 degrees east in NM both in the low 30's in latitude.
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Well since nobody brought this up, I will.
Magnetic north is not true north. In fact, its a fixed point so a compass will be off depending on where it was calibrated compared to where you are. Any compass, you need to compare it and with better compass calibrate it to true north. Everyone of those compass if consistent works. Unless one was made where you live, its probably not pointing to true north. What I'm getting at here is you don't really have to have it pointing at true north as long as you know the difference. What's important is it points the same direction every time. What we do with real compass is we use a GPS then calibrate our compass depending on where we are. Otherwise, its not a big deal but a matter of addition or subtraction. Tj Story Time "Navigating with no landmarks at all not even the sun." During the 1970s and 1980s, I was canoeing fool. Living in E. TX, I was determined to navigate every body of water on the Gulf Coast west of the Mississippi. I made a pretty good dent in it over the years, but we didn't have tools like a GPS in those days and really a compass isn't much good going down a river, you are pretty much going where the river takes you. One long weekend, my canoe pal Doug and I decided to do the Atchafalaya basin. Holy cow did our world just change. Warm weather and wet season, its like an ocean. You can move in any direction you nose your boat. Worse, its like an ocean with no sky because the trees hid the sky. There was no hills to navigate by and due to shallows, you cant' really strike a straight line. Other than the levy to the east and to the west and miles between the two, there's really only one landmark and its a good one. Like a river in most placed, it has I10 that goes east and west across its north center. You couldn't miss it and as long as you knew if you were north or or south of, you had a way to navigate. Going in, it didn't take long back then to realize, we'd just entered a New World. It was so isolated back then, it truly did have its own culture and like a science fiction book a hidden world. There were people in there that didn't speak a word of English. Many lived on floating boat houses and many lived on high spots. I'm talking so rural the traditional house on stilts with pirogue (pronounce pero) was like the big city. The wildlife was like out of and Edgar Rice Burroughs novel and everything wanted to eat you from the bushes full of cotton mouths to the wild hogs (I'm not talking game hogs here but once ancestors were domestic monsters). If a Banana spider wasn't jumping in your boat a gator was trying to mate with it by coming up underneath it trying to lift you out of the water. The mosquitoes were so thick we told each other they flew in "V" formation and wouldn't stop till they got a pint. Like the bad move from that era about an Army platoon lost in there, this was not a place you wanted to be lost in, but it was a place you were lost minutes after you put in. (BTW, Unlike the movie, the people in those swamps were simply fantastic folks, friendly, easy to meet, and tried to feed you.) You can't really sleep in canoes especially knowing falling in may be the death of you. We spent much of our evenings looking for dray spots suitable for camp and would camp early rather than bypass a good spot. When it was time to find our truck, I had a cheap liquid filled compass I picked up at an autoparts store in my tackle box. We made our way north to the interstate then west to the Levi. Tj |
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No its not and we don't really care that you have some non-contributing smart comment either. Tj View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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nevermind...this is not GD No its not and we don't really care that you have some non-contributing smart comment either. Tj Ok, so you brought it on yourself. Don't offer advice when you have no earthly idea what you're talking about. There is no "calibrating compasses". It either points to magnetic north or it doesn't. If it doesn't , it's a piece of shit. Calibrating usually means adjusting for true or "grid" north on a mil map. Honestly, do you have military, specifically infantry, experience? I got thousands of hours in the woods. Navigating. With a compass. This is a technical forum. Don't offer "advice" that is incorrect. Being site staff, people will assume you know what you're talking about. |
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Actually vehicle (boat, airplane, or car) mounted compasses are calibrated for the vehicle and good hand held compasses are often "set" (dipped) for the angle of magnetic flux
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Check the declination tables for your area.
"North" might be WAY off if you are in some places. Know your area and how to adjust. Southern WI is 2 degrees off. Get to FIBland and it's different. Use a sun-stick to get a east/west line and compare to declination and adjust from there. My bets are the cheap ones are off. Some stuff you could be wearing will cause a field, as will phones, computers, speakers, tvs, shit you have in the basement but can't see cuz you are upstairs, etc.
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Quoted: How about printing off a local topo map and checking azimuth and setting declination from local landmarks? Cheap compasses aren't for geocaching precision, they are for panic azimuth. 5 to 10 degrees accuracy is fine. "If you get lost, walk in the general north direction, and within five miles miles you will come to the forest service road you parked on. Walk east until you get to the car." View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I'd trust the lensatic cammenga over anything else. Google a local orienteering course, or find some local boyscouts that know of one and find a declination station. That's going to be the closest you'll get to confirming it unless you have a buddy with survey equipment. Also, make sure you know what your magnetic dec is before you go confirm it. http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/img/DeclinationMap_US.png I already miss being good at that shit. http://imageshack.us/a/img577/3853/n9om.jpg How about printing off a local topo map and checking azimuth and setting declination from local landmarks? Cheap compasses aren't for geocaching precision, they are for panic azimuth. 5 to 10 degrees accuracy is fine. "If you get lost, walk in the general north direction, and within five miles miles you will come to the forest service road you parked on. Walk east until you get to the car." Old, then...well don't. There were some burps in the 90s so some of the maps are off now.
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Actually vehicle (boat, airplane, or car) mounted compasses are calibrated for the vehicle and good hand held compasses are often "set" (dipped) for the angle of magnetic flux View Quote "Dip" is when you are near the north or South Pole. Near the equator the needle should be level. Again, you're talking to a guy with thousands of hours of navigating by compass. |
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According to Ben Meadows (back when they had really good tech support people, and woulc calibrate and reapir surveying equipment) there were 5 different zones for setting dip. The military avoids this by making a compass much deeper than needed, so the center of gravity is well below the dial. However, they are still optomized for the US, they just will work elsewhere. I've seen one (USGI like Cammenga) that was dipped for south american military use, and there was a slight tendancy of it to stick when slighly tiled the wrong way
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2 degrees is 0.56% error - likely more precise than you can navigate. Unless you're flying cross country or directing artillery, I wouldn't be too worried about it... |
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are you outside?
if you are not, then go outside. if you are get the compass off the ground. yes I know course teach putting the compass on the ground to orient a map, but there are small amounts of iron in everything that will affect a compass slightly. also 2 degrees may sound like a lot, but on the surface, for every 600 feet you travel if you are off 2 degrees that equates to 20 feet. you are not going to be able to drive or walk that straight anyway, or find a landmark that close to your travel direction. |
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Look up the difference between true north and magnetic north for your location, then go outside tonight and look at Polaris.
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are you outside? if you are not, then go outside. if you are get the compass off the ground. yes I know course teach putting the compass on the ground to orient a map, but there are small amounts of iron in everything that will affect a compass slightly. also 2 degrees may sound like a lot, but on the surface, for every 600 feet you travel if you are off 2 degrees that equates to 20 feet. you are not going to be able to drive or walk that straight anyway, or find a landmark that close to your travel direction. View Quote Yes, very good advice. I remember there were several times over my time in the Army that young guys would have their compass resting on the carry handle of their M16 or holding the compass in their hand with some gi-norm-ous metal watch (for SoF door gunners of course) that would slightly skew the compass. A good compass will always point to magnetic north and marry up in the same direction as another good compass pointing to magnetic north. If one is not, then check the environment. If it's a dud compass compared to a "known good" compass then I'd chuck the compass. Because like others have said, even if it's just a few degrees off then it's only good for panic azimuths really or telling which way the sun will come up |
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Ok, so you brought it on yourself. Don't offer advice when you have no earthly idea what you're talking about. There is no "calibrating compasses". It either points to magnetic north or it doesn't. If it doesn't , it's a piece of shit. Calibrating usually means adjusting for true or "grid" north on a mil map. Honestly, do you have military, specifically infantry, experience? I got thousands of hours in the woods. Navigating. With a compass. This is a technical forum. Don't offer "advice" that is incorrect. Being site staff, people will assume you know what you're talking about. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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nevermind...this is not GD No its not and we don't really care that you have some non-contributing smart comment either. Tj Ok, so you brought it on yourself. Don't offer advice when you have no earthly idea what you're talking about. There is no "calibrating compasses". It either points to magnetic north or it doesn't. If it doesn't , it's a piece of shit. Calibrating usually means adjusting for true or "grid" north on a mil map. Honestly, do you have military, specifically infantry, experience? I got thousands of hours in the woods. Navigating. With a compass. This is a technical forum. Don't offer "advice" that is incorrect. Being site staff, people will assume you know what you're talking about. Listen to the Ranger. |
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From my front yard, I can see a radio tower on a mountain top that is about 3 miles away. I have been to this radio tower and marked it with my GPS. Now I can stand in the front yard, "goto" that waypoint wirh the GPS, and it will tell me the correct bearing to that waypoint from where I am at. It is an easy way to check a compass.
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Ok, so you brought it on yourself. Don't offer advice when you have no earthly idea what you're talking about. There is no "calibrating compasses". It either points to magnetic north or it doesn't. If it doesn't , it's a piece of shit. Calibrating usually means adjusting for true or "grid" north on a mil map. Honestly, do you have military, specifically infantry, experience? I got thousands of hours in the woods. Navigating. With a compass. This is a technical forum. Don't offer "advice" that is incorrect. Being site staff, people will assume you know what you're talking about. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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nevermind...this is not GD No its not and we don't really care that you have some non-contributing smart comment either. Tj Ok, so you brought it on yourself. Don't offer advice when you have no earthly idea what you're talking about. There is no "calibrating compasses". It either points to magnetic north or it doesn't. If it doesn't , it's a piece of shit. Calibrating usually means adjusting for true or "grid" north on a mil map. Honestly, do you have military, specifically infantry, experience? I got thousands of hours in the woods. Navigating. With a compass. This is a technical forum. Don't offer "advice" that is incorrect. Being site staff, people will assume you know what you're talking about. LOL, No, my GTT score was high enough I didn't have to settle for a 11B. Marine and vehicle compass have a calibration feature for the specific vehicle/magnetic interferences and subsequently what area of the world you are in. In handhelds, you orientate the compass to true north, in other words compensate for magnetic north versus true north, some you have to do the math, some you simply move the compass, some you move a dial. You calibrate it to true north. Here's a little write up on how to. True North Versus Magnetic Now any compass as long as its consistent, always points the same direction, you can calibrate it by knowing what the difference is from where it points consistently to true north. In general, the only bad compass is one that's not consistent. It can point East and long as it does every time, then you can navigate by it. Trusting that a company does this for you, not good, because compass are not all made in the same part of the world. There's really three points, true north on most common maps, magnetic north, and magnetic bearing where your compass points to. I navigate by compass about six months a year and have for over 20 years and not just here to the next hill but miles upon miles. My boat compass is calibrated to true north which matches my Army Crop of Engineer charts. Tj |
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Even those are not always reliable. We always checked the compasses from supply before sending them out with guys on the annual land nav and there would be one or two out of the box that were not accurate for whatever reason View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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USGI lensatic Even those are not always reliable. We always checked the compasses from supply before sending them out with guys on the annual land nav and there would be one or two out of the box that were not accurate for whatever reason This! I almost blew an EFMB course because of a bad compass. Something I thought could never happen. Luckily I was just practicing before the real thing. After that my supply Sergeant checked all compasses in supply and found several off by two to three degrees. |
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This! I almost blew an EFMB course because of a bad compass. Something I thought could never happen. Luckily I was just practicing before the real thing. After that my supply Sergeant checked all compasses in supply and found several off by two to three degrees. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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USGI lensatic Even those are not always reliable. We always checked the compasses from supply before sending them out with guys on the annual land nav and there would be one or two out of the box that were not accurate for whatever reason This! I almost blew an EFMB course because of a bad compass. Something I thought could never happen. Luckily I was just practicing before the real thing. After that my supply Sergeant checked all compasses in supply and found several off by two to three degrees. You mean you guys didn't just "calibrate them" Yeah, they do go bad. Usually from Joe banging them around or from being thrown in a box of 30 others and slammed around the supply room. |
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