So as I am looking at new property  for a Bol I a am pondering the age log question, septic? And what is the cost roughly? Or just a good ol little house on the prairie  with a bag of lye in it( out house). Thoughts suggestions?

Along the lines of an outhouse you could look at a composting toilet.  They can range from a few grand all the way down to a 5gal bucket, some plywood, etc.  

-Emt1581

If I was going to spend a lot of time there, I'd go with the septic.

Septic for sure.

Depending on the laws where you place is, you can just have one set up for only your "black water".

You can just vent your kitchen and bath water out away from the house, depending on local streams and ground water of course.

Septic systems are dependent on large quantities of water. Septic systems that use aerobic bacteria to breakdown solids require round the clock electricity. If you will  have ample water and electricity, go with a septic system. If not, build a pit privi.

Depending on your laws, you may need a permit for the outhouse. We do here, anyway.

Some local governments .. county .. have lowered the ban hammer on outhouses.

Plan C:  Rent or buy a porta potty

Plan D:  Even Walmart sells portable chemical toilets in the outdoor section.

Plan F:  Bumpper dumper

Funny, none of my septic systems have ever used electricity. Neither the professional ones nor the one my son and I put in for our guest cottage using two 55 gallon plastic drums and perforated pipe. They seem to work just fine with the water from the shower and bathroom sink. I have a separate one for the kitchen sink cause it's at the other end of the cottage.  Now maybe if you don't have running water at all you might be better off with an outhouse but it will always smell and it will have to be outside.

I'm just guessing that,
Aerobic bacteria are going to need a minimum o2 level in the septic tank to do their work, so you gotta have a bubbler like a fish tank

I'd go with a septic, are you going to be dragging a camper out? Building a cabin?

I have never in my entire life of living with a septic tank ever seen one that required electricity.  Also, many times they sit vacant (the homes) and people move in and start flushing things down and there is no problem with the tank "working" in terms of digesting the waste.  Worst case scenario, you keep a container of the bacteria jump starter and some dog food at the location to feed the bugs and keep them alive.

Never seen that

If you have a woman keep in mind that they prefer to sit on a toilet.  Most folks would rather squat than sit over a stinking outhouse with spiders living under the seat.  I would use some sort of "luggable loo" and empty it into a pit until I got the septic system installed.

Almost any new septic system around here has to be a mound or a "pressure bed" system. Both require electricity and need the mix "watery" to work right (or so our septic guy told me).

 

a lot depends on what your local codes allow if that is an issue with you. soil conditions vary a lot from place to place, even adjoining properties, so what might work for your neighbor might not work for you, and vice versa.

personally, I am inclined to the simpler is better theory for the most part, but the frequency of use makes a difference too.

a couple of camper style potties that can be emptied into a hole in the ground is pretty cheap and straight forward, and requires no permits, and there is no stinking outhouse to deal with.

a couple of buckets with toilet seats on them and some sawdust makes a very effective toilet.

the problem with septic tanks is that you need a lot of water to flush with. if you don't have running water, that can be an issue.

half of the world can just pee pretty much anywhere in the back yard without worrying a whole lot about whether there is a toilet involved or not, and even the other half has some options in this respect that are not real offensive.

really, the problem is the solid waste side of things.

Having a remote BOL really should double as a place for family to go camping and such. The more time spent there, the better you get at knowing the land, game patterns, etc. I would install a septic system, and also find out about my water table and selecting a spot for an outhouse just in case.

Septic is the way to go.

The electric is a requirement for a septic depending on the system you have.  I have an agitator and pump on mine.   It depends on the local codes on what you have to put in.   Just a tip.  When you file your plans you may want to have several clean out spots, not an RV dump.

THat is odd.  Here, we moved beyond that failed scientific experiment more than 2 decades ago.  The Aerobic septic systems are junk, and have a lifespan measured in months.  The only time that we have pumps in septic systems are when your leach field is uphill from your tank, or there is a large chunk of granite in the way and you need to move the waste around it.  Maybe it has something to do with the height of your water table in MN?

There are aerobic systems which utilize specific bacteria require large amounts of oxygen necessitating air be pumped in or with a bubbler setup.  These systems are extremely good at removing nitrogen.

And, there are anaerobic systems that use different bacteria that require much less oxygen, which they can get from the CO2 that results from their digestion of the waste.

If there is a high water table (or shallow aquifer or eroded limestone near the surface) or an existing problem with nitrogen in nearby surface waters, there are sometimes regulations in place requiring the aerobic systems.

No. There is enough air in the system to keep the culture going. Apparently, it is not an air tight anaerobic environment. None of the septic systems I have ever had used anything electrical.

If a septic system is not used on a regular basis, the culture will die and the system will fail. Also, too much detergents, bleach, etc, will do the same. A plumber once told me a quart of buttermilk and a couple cups of sugar down the drain a few times a year will keep a septic system healthier than any commercial additives.

I've used both extensively....

Outhouse:  Simple and cheap. You will have people pissing everywhere, and the house will be used only for solids or by women folk.  A lot of women aren't really happy about them.  If you have a wife, girlfriend or daughters, you may be more popular if you opt for septic.  Out houses need to be some distance from dwellings.  Getting up and getting dressed so you can have a dump at 2:00am sucks.  If you have young kids, don't do a outhouse... too many trips with a flash light at night.

Septic.  Needs water, expensive, etc.  You know the pros and cons.

How about primitive septic.  Usually not endorsed by local codes, but its done a LOT.  There aren't a lot of inspections in remote areas. Indoor bath room, with a small RV chemical toilet. Plumbed to an in-ground tank.  Water provided by 5 gallon bucket.We used a 200 gallon oil tank, punched full of holes.  We simply half filled the chem toilet with water, and bucket flushed into the chem toilet internal storage tank. Every couple days we simply opened the drain gate valve on the chem toilet, and let it gravity feed to the in to the ground tank.  Close valve, and refill chem toilet with 3-4 gallons water.  Cheap, simple, effective, no midnight runs through the rain, and far more sanitary and safer than a pit outhouse.   Our tank has thus far held up to 2-3 months use each year by a family of four for in excess of 25 years....

I like this idea.

 

Look at Humanure,  I have a septic but kind of wish I had heard about Humanure before I put it in.

Humanure

Depending on where you are and what the laws are....
I remember watching as my grandfather installed a "french drain" for the 2 houses on the farm.

Dig a big ass hole.
Line it with chicken wire and cattle panel (or something like that).
Fill it up with some large (I'm talking LARGE) boulders.
Lay chicken wire/ cattle panel over the top of it.
Cover it all up with dirt and plant some water loving plants on top of it.

We lived in that house for almost 15 years and never had a single problem. 2 Bathroom house. All the waste water and effluent went in there. Never smelled it and never had to dig up a pipe...it was a good bit away from the house though and we really did not have any permit issues...mostly because nobody knew we were building 2 houses in the middle of 7000 acres

Septic systems correctly installed with permits, perk tests and everything,  will run you $10,000+



A properly installed sand mound system is what you put in if it fails the perk test, they run $15,000-20,000



There is something called a grey water line that may not be legal, but you let all your non toilet water go into it and leach into the ground, then you flush your toilet water into a holding tank and have that pumped out.  This is a pretty good method, till the guy asks where all your other water is going. i would not choose this.



I guess it depends how much time you spend there. A outhouse may be just fine if this is a 4 times a year kinna place. research how to build one and do that.





My buddy has a cabin in the woods with running water from a well.... anyway he needed a place to go  that was warm in the winter, so he dug a huge pit, covered it and then built his bathroom addition ontop of it, so he has an attached outhouse, with a real toilet so to speak and it doesnt smell or anything.  he uses this place as a hunting camp and weekend getaway, but the crap has enough time to decompose between his visits.  His shower water doesnt go into this pit, but into a grey water line and that goes to another pit.  as you can see, if everyone did this we would have serious problems with sanitation.

All great info as always. To address some of the questions posed. I will be building a cabin, it will be in phases most likely. Yes it will be a very remote location. No women folk to speak of. And the only electricity will either be solar or generator as back up when the cabin is complete.

will you ever run the risk of getting ambushed traveling from A to B? or worse?????

stay healthy my fren

Ok,

I have a cabin, and house off the grid/etc...

First off there is many ways to do septic/sespool without any electric at all...

The rule is shit runs down hill...

Cabin original, outhouse, it's still there...

Easy two 55gal barrels with top/bottom remode except bottom one...a few holes to let water weep out...lasts about 5 years with intermittent use...

Later on in life...a few 55galon barrels buried filled with 1"- rock...works...

Cabin now, put in septic system with gravity feed drain field...requires no electric...easy and legal depending on your perk test of the soil...

House, septic, mound system, requires intermittent electric...to pump up onto the mound system...

Price I won't touch..it depends on your soil conditions and size of system and location and laws etc...call a local plumber...

Now, I've lived with septic systems most my life...current one is 25 years old...after my house burnt down debated on moving it to another location and building a new one...but, system in perfect shape...

There are a few rules that if you follow your septic systems will outlive you...

#1 don't use any anti bacterial soaps or cleaners...
#2 run as much water to the system as you can...water is what makes the system work...
#3 schedule a time for cleaning toilets and such where cleaners run down the drain...wait two or three days and dump in some ridx to help get the bacteria back...cleaners kill the bacteria that is digesting your discharge...
#4 don't run anything down the drain that isnot digestible...no tampons, pads, qtips! Rubbers, etc...
#5 don't pump your septic system...unless its running poorly or a failure of something...it can be checked easily...you can even check yourself easily how much solids your have on the bottom of the tank...just a flat plate welded to a piece of 1/2 pipe and a rod running through the pipe...flat plate will sit on top of the solids...rod goes to the bottom of the tank...the rest is easy...

My septic system at my house consists of a 3000 gallon settling tank with three partitions...and a 1500 gallon lift tank...supports 6 bathrooms easily...

So, for a Bol you shouldn't need nearly that...and a few 55 gal drums may be the way to go without permits and such...

Bret

Have a look at modern technology in the Moldering Privy. They are starting to show up at remote campsites in state and national parks now and seem to work well.

Bret great info thanks. I make a chili that makes me shift like a mad man. Lol I may need that 3k tank. Do you need or use a leach field? Or is there any cause or use for it?

To beat a dead horse, check local and state laws first.  Some states require aboveground septic tanks that require pumping if near any waterways.  Assuming that this is not the case, you have the open space for a drain field and enough running water to flush toilets, a septic tank is the way to go.

Another thing to consider is your frost line.  If you live in freezing conditions, you'll need to bury the lines deep enough to prevent freezing.  Also, if its not regularly used, you'll need to winterize any indoor plumbing.

I meant to say I have considered that. I will need lots of black donkey dick tubing to insulate the pipes and line or might I need the heavy duty white  stuff? Or does it depend on location and use of said system?

I was talking to a old school plumber and he said I needed to have a 15 degree slope for my septic tank is that a state by state thing or rule of thumb?

Rule of shit rolls downhill.

I think he was referring to the amount of fall the line going to your septic tank, and the line going out would need.  Since you will likely need a backhoe anyway to put in a tank, spend a few bucks and get a real plumber to survey the site and do the install for you?

I plan on it. I am a decent electrician but I will be hiring one to wire the solar. I will do everything myself though. Plumbing ain't my gig.

There areobic and anaerobic septic systems.  99.9% of domestic onsite systems are anaerobic, and don't need an external source of energy.  Municipal systems are usually aerobic and need aeration, though with a low enought flow and biological oxygen demand, open ponds may be considered aerobic  Aerobic smells better, but since anaerobic residential systems need to be sealed more or less, the difference isn't that significant.  There's also facultative, which is a lagoon that is aerobic on top and anaerobic on the bottom.

I took a crap engineering class in college.

shits easy.

Its been mentioned but Google "Composting Toilet".  They work well and are much cheaper than a Septic.  You wont have to go outside when its freezing cold or raining like you do with an outhouse.

Well I guess my next question is if I was to build in a place where it does tend to freeze in the winter months, burying the lines are a given but would it be more beneficial to have a basement or just a raised cabin I can get up under with some ease? Like 5 feet?

The house me and my ex built had an aerobic system and it worked fine with the normal use of water i.e. showering, flushing toilets, washer use etc. If he is gone for a long period of time I suppose he would need a timer to run a garden hose or something to add water to the system, and he needs the electricty as you said for the bubbler and for the sprinkler pump as well. Also OP you will have to add a chlorine tablet IIRC about once a week, that is how the water is sanitized, our system had 3 rotating sprinkler heads, and I was told by the installer the water comes 99% sanitized. The cost was 5K and we had to have a 12 month contract with the company for monthly inspections, most likely the county dictates what type of system you install. They do work very well too, if your BOL is in a wooded area you mave a problem installing a conventional system.

this seems to be getting pretty elaborate for what amounts to a deer camp.

I am a fan of some comfort but a septic system requires water in substantially large quantities just for flushing. if you have to go out to the creek 5 times a day to fill up the flush bucket, how is that any better than a well maintained privy or composting toilet of some sort.

You will freeze your butt off on a raised house in freezing temps. Basements are worth every dime in the frozen north.

 

No I plan on doin a perm relocation. So not just a deer camp. And as stated before I would be doing his in phases , as time seasons , and money dictates. I have one of those flex careers I can work anywhere plus have va money so income is not an issue in the winter months.

Then DEFINITELY build a basement. If you do it right with insulation, it can act as cellar storage of produce for the winter months. PLUS it is a cool place to go when it is hot during the summer and you have no A/C.


 

Septic tank types vary depending on soil conditions. Where I live the soil is very rocky and does not absorb water easily and is likely to get clogged with solids. The county requires a septic tank with an aerator pump in a tank with multiple chambers and a complex drain field (or mound) with multiple sections. Every so many hours (mine is 6) a trashpump turns on and pushes water through the drainfield as a specific PSI for a set amount of time (12 min here). The pressure activates a valve that switches between drain fields every time the pump runs. The system also has multiple alarms to signal if pumps are malfunctioning or you have filled the tank past a certain level. By the time the water is going to the drainfield it looks mostly clear with a slight brown tint.

There are two filters on the unit. An air filter for the aerator and a water filter to stop most solids from making it into the drainfield piping. Maintenance is done yearly and records are to be mailed to the county (clean filters, test alarms and pumps). My alarms are set at around 1/2 to 2/3rds tank volume. I've never managed to set them off.

If power goes out its not a huge problem depending on your water usage. I know how big the tank is and how much water I use. I'd have to be without power nearly a month to fill it under normal usage. My system will handle 500 gallons per day and I use around 70 a day.

Here is one of these types of systems...
http://www.biomicrobics.com/products/fast-wastewater-treatment-systems/microfast/

Ok so after everything I have read if build my cabin with a basement and the ground is all good ( soil wise) and all that what would a   Smart guess for cost on the basement plus the septic tank system. Now keep in mind this will be in a place that receives copius amounts of snow and ice every year. Thought or guesses?

You REALLY need to get quotes and material prices from your area. Even just block can vary in price quite a bit from region to region.

 

Never thought about it like that. Because I live in the south now and plan on moving or. "Relocating " to somewhere much colder. Lol. And I know that the cost of groceries is much different! So I can Only gues on build supplies and the like.