Generator security..

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Generator security..

Posted: 11/1/2009 3:12:33 PM EDT

I finally have my generator ready to go. House is wired, shed where the generator is located is wired and today I "secured it" in the shed.

A pro with bolt cutters will be slowed down but for the "target of opportunity" thief's..hopefully this will deter them.

I took lengths of aircraft cable and leg bolted it to the wall.

I then nailed a piece of 1 x 3 over the heads of the leg bolts to prevent anyone from getting a wrench on them.

The iron pipe in the pic is my exhaust "system"..

These generators come with a plate on the muffler for a spark arrestor. I cut down a flange and drilled it to match the bolt pattern on the plate.

this is the other end of it.

So..hopefully this will prevent some punks from walking off with my generator..

If someone does..then my insurance will replace it..

Posted: 11/1/2009 3:27:48 PM EDT

[#1]

1) hot exhaust pipe and flange in direct contact with wood.

2) hot exhaust blowing directly on grass and leaves.

3) 3/16" diameter aircraft cable can be cut with diagonal linesman's pliers.

4) can you change the oil/spark plug/air filter without having to remove your security measures?

ar-jedi

Posted: 11/1/2009 3:30:25 PM EDT

[#2]

I'd think that set-up would definitely deter the casual thief.

Do you find that the way you have the exhaust plumbed cuts down on the noise of the generator?

Posted: 11/1/2009 3:35:30 PM EDT

[#3]

I have an aircraft cable setup to secure a bike. It's as thick as my thumb. You might try a bicycle shop. I have some big ass bolt cutters and I don't think they would cut it.

Posted: 11/1/2009 3:37:01 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

1) hot exhaust pipe and flange in direct contact with wood.

It looks like it is but there is over an inch of clearance between the pipe and the wood.

2) 3/16" diameter aircraft cable can be cut with diagonal linesman's pliers.

I highly doubt and smash and grab thieves will be carrying much for tools..

3) can you change the oil/spark plug/air filter without having to remove your security measures?

Yes.

ar-jedi

Feral..I thought it would but it didn't quiet it down much at all. With the doors shut it isn't to bad.

Posted: 11/1/2009 3:52:56 PM EDT

[#5]

Cool idea, I have to solve this same problem somehow...

On a side note: Is the exhaust rigidly mounted to the wall? Can't tell from the pic, but if it is that might be a longer term problem given the rubber mounted engine.

Posted: 11/1/2009 4:09:01 PM EDT

[#6]

Is the structure/building attached to the house?

Posted: 11/1/2009 4:10:58 PM EDT

[#7]

Nice set up. I have something similar with the honda 5000 generator in my shed but all the exhaust components are modular pipe i keep put up. I have a large chain and I-bolt in the floor and a Kryptonite cable attached to the frame and bottom wood frame of shed.

I think you are correct in the assumption that most thieves will be detered. I also keep a sign on my shed door, window and gun safe that reads "WARNING, FORCED ENTRY WILL RESULT IN EXPLOSION" that will make most think twice and realize there are easier targets.

Posted: 11/1/2009 4:12:39 PM EDT

[#8]

I think you need a second flange or pipe that goes through the wall; maybe even a piece of double walled pellet stove vent pipe through the wall...something to protect the wood from a hot pipe if it shifts a little. A double wall would be ideal because contact between the wall flange could be made and likely you wouldnt start your shed on fire.... right now that could happen if your generator shifted a small amount. Also you might direct the exhaust to the side rather than down.

Posted: 11/1/2009 4:24:07 PM EDT

[#9]

I would also increase the size of that pipe to reduce back pressure. Every little bit counts with a normally aspirated engine that small.

Posted: 11/1/2009 4:26:23 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I think you need a second flange or pipe that goes through the wall; maybe even a piece of double walled pellet stove vent pipe through the wall...something to protect the wood from a hot pipe if it shifts a little. A double wall would be ideal because contact between the wall flange could be made and likely you wouldnt start your shed on fire.... right now that could happen if your generator shifted a small amount. Also you might direct the exhaust to the side rather than down.

Exactly. You do need to route that exhaust (in terms of protecting that wall) a little better. Fire is probably a bigger potential enemy that looters anyway

Posted: 11/1/2009 5:34:51 PM EDT

[#11]

Only concern i would have, As stated by others is the exhaust getting hot through wall. Also, Might be just how the pics look but that pipe looks kinda small. Is backpressure a problem?

FYI the part everybody is talking about to keep the heat away from the wood of the structure is a "Through the wall exhaust thimble"

Used one in my last welder/generator install. Verry nice.

Zar

Posted: 11/1/2009 5:41:20 PM EDT

[#12]

In addition to the fire issues. you need a flex joint in there- All of the vibration from the engine is going all the way outside. The flex will help more than a muffler, which could be bought fairly cheap form TSC

I'd consider a 2" pipe inside a 6" or 8" sleave going through the wall. Even then you need to run the generator for an hour under load an make sure nothing is getting hot.

Posted: 11/1/2009 6:43:53 PM EDT

[#13]

For concerns of quieting the generator here is the site I found, looking thru the survival board.
http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenergy/gensetquiet.htm

Posted: 11/1/2009 9:09:40 PM EDT

[#14]

No complaints, you have't helped thieves any, but if you ever re-do that, some low cost security improvements to think about.

If I was stealing a generator, I'd rather cut that cable than I would case hardened chain with 3/8 inch diameter links. Run said chain thru short sections of cast iron pipe to prevent easy access, left loose around the chains, and you'll REALLY spoil a thief's day.

I'd rather split that 1x4 along those nail lines than I would go up against walnut or maple with drilled nailholes in a lattice pattern. You don't happen to have any crowbars handy in that shed do you?

Ringshank nails FTW.

Posted: 11/1/2009 11:21:29 PM EDT

[#15]

Get a bucket, fill it with a shit ton of cement, ad a loop or two of rebar, add some hardened 3/8 chain. At least enough to make it a serious PITA to get it.

That aircraft cable wont stop anybody.

Posted: 11/2/2009 4:55:14 AM EDT

[#16]

thanks for all the suggestions folks..

For those that asked..the exhaust pipe isn't fastened to the flange in the wall. The pipe is 3/4, that flange is 1".

The exhaust pipe is bigger then the hole in the muffler so back pressure shouldn't be a problem. I wondered about vibration cracking the flange on the muffler but I couldn't come up with a way to support the exhaust pipe that wouldn't make it rigid going through the wall of the shed.

Again..this is just to prevent the opportunist from stealing my generator. They are going to make some noise breaking into the shed..noise my 60 pounds of boxer will no doubt hear...

Posted: 11/2/2009 6:21:11 AM EDT

[#17]

I would HIGHLY recommend that you put a flex piece on that pipe that goes through the wall. All kinds of bad things could happen to your muffler and your cylinder head/block if that is allowed to stay like that. You don't need much flex capability but you need a little.

Also, as mentioned, I would run a good long test on that muffler to make sure that the pipe doesn't get too hot to cause a fire on the wood of the wall. I'm pretty concerned that the pipe might cause a fire. I'd want to see a greater distance between the pipe and the wood. Maybe some insulating/fireproof rope too.

The cables that you have used aren't the best. I'd rather see heavier duty cables.

Having said that, your generator is probably more secure than 90% of the people on this board! So, I'd say that you're in pretty good shape as far as security is concerned. I'm sure that you also lock up the shed so that's 2 layers of locks between your generator and the outside.

Posted: 11/2/2009 6:32:05 AM EDT

[#18]

I've never seen flex pipe in 3/4" - 1" diameter...at least not up here in the frozen tundra..

I'll have to look around as I would like to prevent any unnecessary strain on the exhaust.

Posted: 11/2/2009 6:35:41 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Also, as mentioned, I would run a good long test on that muffler to make sure that the pipe doesn't get too hot to cause a fire on the wood of the wall. I'm pretty concerned that the pipe might cause a fire. I'd want to see a greater distance between the pipe and the wood. Maybe some insulating/fireproof rope too.

Insulation sounds like a good idea, but it's not. Insulation just slows heat flow, it will flow to the wood, and heat the wood up, until the wood is hot enough to dissipate the heat transfered by the insulation, and it will remain at this temperature.

An air gap will actually stop heat flow. As the pipe heats up the air it rises and will rise out of the area between the hole and pipe to be replaced by fresh cool air. The only danger is heat radiation, but the gasses should not be hot enough for this to be a big problem. Were this an exhaust manifold, the radiation would be a concern.

Somone posted that the exhaust backpressure will only rob a bit of power (I think it was in the alpha rubicon link) This is only partially true, The exhaust backpressure will make the valves and manifold run hotter, which may reduce like, and will make the shed warmer.

Posted: 11/2/2009 8:00:01 AM EDT

[#20]

The only reduction in the size of the system I added was the elbow. More specifically the threaded portion which I can cut off. I added it to keep snow and rain out of the pipe.

Posted: 11/2/2009 9:55:20 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Also, as mentioned, I would run a good long test on that muffler to make sure that the pipe doesn't get too hot to cause a fire on the wood of the wall. I'm pretty concerned that the pipe might cause a fire. I'd want to see a greater distance between the pipe and the wood. Maybe some insulating/fireproof rope too.

Insulation sounds like a good idea, but it's not. Insulation just slows heat flow, it will flow to the wood, and heat the wood up, until the wood is hot enough to dissipate the heat transfered by the insulation, and it will remain at this temperature.

An air gap will actually stop heat flow. As the pipe heats up the air it rises and will rise out of the area between the hole and pipe to be replaced by fresh cool air. The only danger is heat radiation, but the gasses should not be hot enough for this to be a big problem. Were this an exhaust manifold, the radiation would be a concern.

Somone posted that the exhaust backpressure will only rob a bit of power (I think it was in the alpha rubicon link) This is only partially true, The exhaust backpressure will make the valves and manifold run hotter, which may reduce like, and will make the shed warmer.

I disagree. Air does not stop the flow of heat. There is a reason that chimneys have insulation in them. But YMMV

I have purchased flex pipe for exhaust systems from my local auto parts store. They usually keep it on the shelf. Also, might check out a local farm store.

Posted: 11/2/2009 10:13:53 AM EDT

[#22]

will do coltrifle..

Posted: 11/2/2009 6:59:26 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

I disagree. Air does not stop the flow of heat. There is a reason that chimneys have insulation in them. But YMMV

Well it does. Unless you wall is extremely deep for the hole diameter, as soon as the air warms up, it rises and is replaced by cool air. It's called convective heat flow, and ocours in any airspace greater then about 1/4". A large annular space between the exhaust pipe and wall ensures the convective air rises to the top of the generator room, rather than heating the sleave/wall.

Chimeneys are isulated for a completely different reason: You want the liner to remain as hot as possable both to encourage draft (the hotter the air is when it exits the chimney, the greater the draft), and to avoid condensation of the combustion byproducts (creasote for wood burning chimneys, and acidic water in the case of natural gas and propane)

Flexable pipe this size is available from McMaster Carr. I used it on my small diesel generator which had an exhause outlet about 1", which is why I'm suprised a gas engine has a smaller diameter. My generator is 3700 watts, maybe it's just overengineered.

Posted: 11/2/2009 9:27:11 PM EDT

[#24]

My Generac 8Kw weighs 500#. Grab that!

Posted: 11/2/2009 9:46:31 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
My Generac 8Kw weighs 500#. Grab that!

two burly guys could throw that into the back of a pickup truck in 30 seconds.
i would not depend on weight alone to prevent a generator from being stolen.

ar-jedi

Posted: 11/3/2009 1:24:00 AM EDT

[#26]

You could also look into some of that exhaust wrap tape and wrap the muffler pipe to help. Also sold at auto parts stores.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Generator security..

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