This is a topic that I have wondered about often.  Here in NY, cops don't write cops.  It is that simple with very few exceptions.  I am not talking about DWI or serious offenses, but minor traffic violations such as speed or stop signs, etc.  I have heard horror stories about police officers getting tickets in other states and some even while in a police car.  I would like to hear from anyone out there who is LEO and what they feel about this issue.  I have stopped cops from many states and have never written a single one of them.  That includes part-time as well.  Just because your part-time doesn't mean your less likely to get hurt or killed.  A cop is a cop is a cop. I can personally say that I have experienced professional courtesy in NH, NY and VT and can say that they all honored the badge.  I am not looking to get a war going, but just a question that I have always wondered about.

Also, has anyone heard Dr. Bobby Smith talk?  He was a Louisiana State Trooper and was shot in 1986 in the face with a shotgun and lived, but is now blind.  He is an amazing speaker and had a room of about 80 cops in tears.  My heart goes out to this man and I commend him on his courage and willingness to help his brother and sister LEO's.  He will alway have a special place in my heart.  May God bless him in his dedication and his career goal pursuits.    

like u said, a cop is a cop is a cop, i even extend that courtesy to private security officers,(god knows they get enough shit)
never written an officer and have never been written by one.

In 20 years I got courtesy from everyone but a Maryland State Trooper, just spoke w/DEA friend who got a mover from a Fla Trooper with a rep. for writing other leos.

One can never count on courtesy and you have to be courteous to get it.

The non leo people are gonna have a field day with this topic.  There are some troopers on the west side of the houston area that right other cops in uniform on the way home for a measly 6 to 8 mph over the speed limit on the freeway.  I myself don't write ANYONE speeding tickets until they get 15 mph or more over the limit.  That way I'm not a hypocrite when I haul ass going home.  

For what it's worth, I've been with my brother when he was driving and was stopped by the Illinois and Wisconsin State police. I identified myself and he was ticketed both times. That's their option. Indiana State troopers have been known to stop and ticket other officers.  When I was in uniform I never wrote tickets to any doctors, nurses, or EMTs. You never know on which side of the gurney you may end up.  A catheter is a terrible thing.

Let the field day begin!

I am really quite curious as to why LEO's are not subject to the same rules and regulations as everyone else.  What you are talking about is not "professional courtesy"  What you are talking about is applying law unequally.

I'm going to take a bold step here that may piss some of you LEO's off, which is not my intent, but may happen anyway.  I would love very much for you all to remember that you, just like me or anybody else, are average citizens.  The only difference between you and I is that you are paid to attend full time, to duties that are incumbant upon all of us. You are not a priveleged class, you are like me, or anyone else, and should expect to be treated the same when it comes to application of law.

Don't misunderstand me.  I'm not anti-LEO, and I respect very much what you folks do, and the loads of bullshit, and danger, that you put up with.  However, this does not, and should not, entitle you to exceptions to the law.  If you think it does, run for congress, their famous for it.

Mike

DakotaKid,

I understand what you are trying to say, but you don't really understand the life of a police officer.  The things we do, see, hear, and the politics. Foremost is the internal struggles that each and everyone of us has to conquer just to put the badge on every working day.  How to cope with the stress of the unexpected.  We know this....not to many people do and we protect our own when we can.  Its a fact and no matter what anyone says or does, that's the way it is.  Young cops don't always feel this way, but in time (after a shooting or two) they'll understand the brotherhood.  Hey, I'm proud to say it.

Well stated, Dakota. I'm not anti-LEO either, but when I hear these sorts of stories, it makes me cringe. These are the kinds of things that give our officers a bad reputation. I understand "protecting your own", but when you use language like this it seems that you and your "brotherhood" are putting yourselves abovethe Law and the Citizens that you work for and protect. You do on the other hand deserve our respect. We should all be happy that there are people willing to do the "job". Mick.

You guys aren't wrong, but, just so you know alot of courtesies are given within an industry.  A guy who works for MCI gets reduced rates, the ailine stewardess, free flights.  What is being discussed here is minor stuff legally within "officer discretion." We are not taking, or at least I am not talking about, criminal violations, and furthermore there is no insurance that being a cop is going to get you off anyway.  I have been stopped a few times in my career going a little too fast but nothing crazy, and like I said, in Maryland, the trooper wrote me.

Thanks to the officers who respect each other.

To the one's that do not, shame on you.

I am not a LEO,but I know the drama of the job all too much.
You got to wonder were the guy is coming from or what has happened to him that he would stoke you for a minor offence ?

Good luck

Dakota,  This is Texas, the home of the warp 15 pickup.
That said,  my stops usually average warnings to tickets about 3 to 1, and there are also some people I won't write.  The mentioned medical personel,  to which I'll add clergy,  (REAL clergy.  Not someone who just claims to be a reverend)  obviously poor elderly,  and a few others.
 It's called "officer discretion".  It's completely up to me who to stop, and who to write.  I decide on a case by case basis.
 By your notions,  everyone, everytime, should be ticketed, regardless of circumstances.  This would make the cop bashers on the GD board scream like a dog with it 's tail caught in a fence.
It's not applying the law unequally.  The whole concept of traffic stops is to gain compliance with the minimum response used.  Sometimes you run into a real idiot,  so extreme that a trip to jail is needed, but for most folks,  Just a friendly reminder will do the trick.  It's a plus for everyone.  The little old lady thinks she's been lucky once, and slows down.  I win because I haven't made that same little old lady eat cat food for a month, and I gain compliance.
You may think that I place cops, clergy, nurses, grandmothers etc above the law,  that's you opinion.
What I see is a problem solved with the minimum corrective measures used, with the least disruption in their lives beyond the stop.
To cops,  disruption beyond the stop is a possible 5 day admin suspension without pay. That 70$ citation may actually cost 600$. All contacts with LE outside of regular duty must be reported and investigated by Internal Affairs regardless of circumstances.  I have an IA investigation in my file because I reported my lawn mower stolen back n 1995. Have I ticketed  police?  Yes. Arrested them too. Thankfully,  I've only been put in that position around 5 times since 1983.  

     

They ARE subject to the same rules, and often more.

I "take a look at a lot of driving". Meaning if something catches my eye, be it PC for a stop, or something less exciting like a very minor speed violation. If when I watched the drving they don't commit other violations, I don't stop them. Of course I may also run a registration check as part of the "taking a look".

If I stop someone, anyone, I tell them the reason(s) I stopped them and ask why did I see what I did. I don't stop people for no reason.

If you try to tell me I was having an hallucination I WILL start writing.

If you tell me you don't want to talk to me I may start writing. Before someone "pops off" about "right to remain silent". I can not issue a warning to someone who doesn't admit a violation. If they don't acknowledge they did anything contrary to traffice regulation, it is highly unlikely the "the word to the wise" will keep the problem from re-occuring.

If It was a minor violation and you've been driving for a while and your drving record doesn't look like you were crowned "Mr. Moving Violation, 3 years in a row", and you come up with any halfway decent reason or excuse. It would probably just be a warning. FYI I usually don't stop people until 15 over.

One of my favorites, on the country roads: I was staying in the center of the road, with them pesky yellow painted lines, because I'm worried that deer will attack my car..... What do you do when there is oncoming traffic? I get back in my lane...... Carry on citizen.

On the other hand 20+ over the speed limit, suspended registration are MUCH tougher to explain, but not impossible. Got a guy at 21 over.

Why are you going 76 mph? I'm on my way to the Vet. my dog is having an allergic reaction, and it's throat seems to be swelling shut. Slow down, so you, get there, I hope your dog does ok.

Impossible to explain: Driving with an expired, suspened, revoked, or just plain old no license. Which is usually accomponied by warrants or DUI, guess what, those will be just as difficult to explain. Oh, if you get up over the "highway" speed limits by 25 mph or more that will be difficult to explain too.

About half the people I stop, talk to a cop, get checked for the DL, sobriety, and warrants, then are released with a verbal warning.

I haven't yet met a DUI LEO, a LEO without a valid DL, or one driving ridiculous speeds. Any of those will be just as tough for them to explain as it is for you. FYI the LEO may also be given the same break I'd probably give you for the same violation.

EDITED for that 3500 character limit.

I agree with the first postings. It's family and you don't write family for the minor bs that we let most poeple off with warnings for anyway.

I usually give 10-15 warnings to each ticket. I only write the serious ones or people with bad attitudes from the get go.

Proffessional courtesies extend way beyond the Police profession. Dr.'s treat Dr's for free, lawyers represent each other, no charge. Airline pilots fly free on any airline. The list goes on. Imagine the savings compared to a speeding ticket. When I did traffic enforcement I could cut a break to anyone I chose to. Very few of them were cops, I just didn't stop that many. In my department professional courtesy is a way of life as long as your on the job you get a pass for minor traffic violations. The same goes for immediate family. The Ohio State Highway Patrol is notorious for pinching cops. Hard to believe that they will let non cops have a pass and pinch a cop. Then again OSP aren't classified as Peace Officers in the State of Ohio. They are LEO's. The Ohio revised Code makes a distinction between the two and Peace Officers carry more broad authority. My point is that even though we find the behavior of the OSP reprehensible we extend them professional courtesies as well. We hope to teach them a better way.

I read that distinction of OSP years ago. Thank god I did not pass their Psych exam. That said. I don't write LEO's. Doctors and nurses are open season. Most people get a warning; unless the EARN the ticket.

Mississippi State Police will write you in a heartbeat. Then when you stop one, they will ask you for "professional courtesy". They are the one cop I will write. They have ticketed a number of deputy's from my agency, and were rude about it. (I wasn't one of the cited ones).  
When my wife got a citation from a city officer, I didn't whine or try to get her out of it. I made her go to a drivers training course so she wouldn't get the points. (this is an option anyone can elect once a year to keep from accumilating points) She had to pay the fine as well out of "her" money.
In almost 20 years, I have been stopped 2 times. Both times I identified myself because I was carrying. I did not ask for a break. I was not cited.

I will not write another LEO  for a minor infraction. No way! I have on occasion pulled them over and said slow down. Once I contacted a friend at another agency and asked him to slow down one of his officers or I would let the Arkansas State Police know when she went off shift and her route home. That was after I had stopped her twice. The ASP will write hard copies. Doctors, nurses, probably not. Paramedics, never. Descretion is one of our rights and I use it well. I've wrote very few speeding tickets for less than 15 over. Every job has its perks. If you think our perks are better than yours, take the test and fill out the exam.

Beekeeper- Slavery went out in the 1800's. The only way we get better pay,conditions et c is to ask for them. We chose this field and work in it because most of us love it. Citizens get breaks; my brothers and sisters get breaks. These are MY decisions.Complain all you want the Captain will believe you more than the Judge will. If you earn a ticket I'll fill it out.

That little winkie face at the end of Beekeepers post signifies it was meant to be tounge in cheek.

Thanks. Now I know. I'll just go take my size 13 out of my mouth.

I'm anti-leo(for sure) lifetime member,but don't wish any harm to any one.I have one question for the leo's here,Why do you complain about jobs,you stated(not all,but some leo's have)your job is dangerous, you can get killed any day you go to work(who can't)the general public has 10x the stress than you have,they have politics at the workplace too,they see things you do not(who reports the crimes),and why has there never been accidental shooting of a LEO'S,but there has been hundred's of accidental shootings(not including flat out murder by a corrupt leo) of the general public.


P.S. Why do leo's bug out when a CCW Holder shows the paper work and the LEO still treat them like a criminal. These are some of the reasons I'm anti-leo.

The general public has a 10X more stressfull day or job??

Wow KentStateFour  you must have a stressful job.

Most of us know BeeKeeper is one of the good guys [:d]

It's my descretion who i decide to write a ticket to.  If I decide to write/not write "Joe Citizen" it's me and Mr. Citizen's business, no one elses.

Mr Punk Kid driving his lowered POS ghetto sled with 22" wheels and booming god-awful stereo will get a ticket.  If he can afford all that crap on his ride then he can afford a ticket.  Maybe next time he'll learn not to draw so much attention to himself.

Mrs Soccer Mom will get a ticket for blowing a red light while talking to (insert yuppie name here) on her cell phone.

Anybody who drops names will get a ticket.  If their daddy is so important then he can call me and we can discuss the matter.

Loud mouths will always get a ticket.

Doctors, nurses, firemen, firewomen, EMTs, teachers, and fellow LEO's will not get a ticket.

You anti-cop nay sayers can go take a flyin' leap if you don't agree with my decision or any other LEO's decision as to ticket/not ticket.  It's none of your business who i decide to write unless that person is you.

So much for being a "public servant".

With that being said, I don't see any harm in letting someone slide on something minor, be it another LEO or any other member of the public.

So, according to you, the public has 10X the stress a police officer has? Every person has their own set of unique circumstances that introduces stress into their work environment but, as far as I know, the average civilian does not have to concern themselves with the possiblility of getting shot at every time they answer a 911 call. For some LEO's that could mean 10+ times a day. Every time a LEO responds to a 911 call they inherently enter a hostile and emotionally charged environment by definition. As far as I know that doesn't happen 10 times a day in ones safe and cozy cubicle. In addition to that, the majority of the population works 9-5 M-F. LEO's work midnights, holidays, and are often called upon to work mandatory double shifts. Why is it divorce rates among LEO's and EMS workers are substantially higher than that of the civilian population? If the average civilian has 10X the stress an LEO has shouldn't it be the reverse?



So, am I to understand that civilians see more crimes than the average LEO does? Granted, they do call 911. But how many times does one average civilian witness a murder or other violent crime? How many times have YOU witnessed these type of crimes? I would venture to say that you don't witness this form of man's inhumanity to man on a daily basis. Am I correct in assuming this? The average LEO sees this MULTIPLE times a day (unlike the average "overstresses" civilian).



Granted, there are crooked cops, just as there are crooked civilians, politicians, etc, etc.As far as accidental shootings go, Yes they do occur more often among LEO's but comparing civilians to LEO's is like comparing apples and oranges. How many times is the average civilian confronted with a situation that may or may not ultimately result in a shooting? Not very often. By virtue of the fact that the LEO is confronted with such situations on a daily basis, logic dictates that LEO's will have a higher percentage of accidental shootings.



Having an anti-LEO attitude is your perogative. As to why you get harassed and treated by a criminal I would venture a guess and say its because, when you get pulled over, your true anti-leo attitude permeates the conversation It's very easy for one to tell, just based on mannerisms alone, the 'tone' of the conversation. I won't mention the fact that you must have done something illegal to begin with or you wouldn't ihave to interact with LEO's (since you hate them).

You are one arrogant MF. Guys like you are why I couldn't stomach wearing a badge anymore.

Well, I guess I started quite the discussion.  I am glad to see that most LEO's offer the courtesy.  I understand those that don't, but I will never issues a ticket to a LEO.  

As for the others, non-LEO's, I respect your opinions.  With the exception of one anti-LEO.  Unless your a LEO or very close with one, you can't begin to understand what it is that we actually do and have to deal with.  Your right, some days we do just drive around in a car and things are easy.  There are other day's when we handle numerous man with gun calls.  Do you realize how unhealthy it is to have your adrenaline go high and then drop and high then drop 10 times a day?  

For those LEO's who offer the courtesy, thanks.  To those non-LEO's who treat us with respect, thanks, it means a lot to us.  For those who are anti-LEO, why don't you try being respectful for a change and see where it gets you.  You would be amazed at the results.  Thanks for all the posts!

Dakota Kid  You ever in the military? On guard turned you head,while one of your own kind snuck aboard ship while awol.  As a firefighter many policeman gave us breaks for small infractions.

   Ever saw another brother return fire on what he thought was the enemy,turned out to be not,did you turn him in or just go with it?

Professional courtesy is some of the Perks for a  Thankless job preformed above and beyond the call of duty.

Chill Dude.....     Bob   [8D]

Thank God!

Ok, I've been reading the LEO responses on this.  I have a couple of thoughts.

First of all, the argument was made that it is professional courtesy, and equal to say, a doctor giving a friend a discount, or, a lawyer doing the same.  I reject this argument out of hand because it is completely different.  A business is free to give discounts to it's customers or employees.  But what you are dealing with ranges anywhere from municipal code to state law. (municipal code is law also, just like any other).  That means that by giving LEO's a break, you are applying LAW with inequity based on social class (in this case work class). This is a concept that is very wrong in this counrty (though it certainly happens, espescially perpetrated by the federal government).

I do very much understand the arguments made about the brotherhood you gentlemen describe, and I certainly will not put down that concept.  I know I would feel that same brotherhood if I were a LEO.

A comment was made that by my reasoning no LEO could give anyone a break anytime, thus we would have inequity of law which I am talking about.  Not true.  You could give us, ALL OF US, exactly the same breaks as you would give a LEO, OR, give LEO's exactly the same penalties as you give us.  Choose one of the two but if you don't, you are still applying law unequally.

I know this conversation is academic, because LEO's will give LEO's breaks and we are just well, joe blow citizen.  But the fact that this conversation is academic to reality doesn't make the difference in treatment right.  

Mike

Dakota,  your argument would make sense if I only gave breaks to Police, nurses, etc. EVERYTIME and to the exclusion of everyone else.

However,  that is not the case. From the moment the lights go on, everyone has a chance unless you just did something outstandingly stupid. The level of response is determined by:
1.  The offense in question
2.  Driving history
3.  General honesty and attitude.

From this I can  determine the level required to correct the behaviour.

On the other hand,Kent is screwed no matter what. There are some folks you just cannot reach without whacking them with a baseball bat.  (figuratively of course.  Don't want to start another one of those "abusive cop"  threads)
As for Poik,  I'm glad you found another career path.

I have never written a cop, firemen, doctor. I have written nurses under certain circumstances, maybe three.

There is one certain police dept. I'm waiting patiently to write [;D].

These are just perks of the a job and life.  Dakota, I understand your reasoning, but life is not black and white.  You nave to bend a little to survie everyday. My dad owned a dry cleaning store and he and he had a soft spot for policemen.  All police and firefighters got a discount.  

As a doctor, I will always try to help officers out.  I have treated  several in the ER.  Anyone seriously wounded will get treated but I will try to expedite their stay if I can.  I will help them gather evidence if they need it.  

I have poor patients who come into my office everyday.  I extend professional courtesy to them.  I had an older lady who needed an operation and asked me if she could pay me monthly.  I told her to forget my end and just pay her hospital costs.  I have a stash of medications to give to people that need it.  The cost of a weeks worth of pill may determine what they eat that week.

So to give a little is not a big deal.  Makes life easier for all of us.  However, there should be no excuses for police or anyone that are truly dirty.

Palmer,

Is that dept. upstate or downstate?  Thanks,

Jon

I am not surprised this pleases you. Cockroaches hate light.

Howboucha modify that to "anti-asshole", m'kay?



Teeheeheeheeheeheehee!!!!!! -Ahem. We just had a survey done at our department. One of the questions went like "What are the most serious risks for the three biggest three responsibilities of your job?"

I answered :"Police officer: Death. Paramedic: Death. Firefighter: Death".



-I have yet to give a ticket to a [i]CWP[/i] holder. Just business cards - so we can go shooting. [:D]

Kentstate4 = [:K] ?

P3[pyro][^][heavy]

In early December 1979, I was part of a Mobile Training Team from the Armor School to go up to the area near Kent Ohio. We trained what turned out to be the Ohio National Guard unit that had been at the Kent State Riots. They had transitioned from an Infantry Unit to a Cavalry Unit. On the whole, a great bunch of guy's. Unlike the bunch of radical hippie's who had burnt down the ROTC building. Thrown rocks, and even taken shot's at the Guard unit.
So anyone with a moniker of Kentstate4 doesn't suprise me when he leads out with a statement saying he is anti LEO.  

Wow, pinkylilly, sethlivzz has a point if you couldn't stomach the job then it was best you got out. It's not for everybody and not everyone can hack it.

There is a term called discretion. Alot of LE work involves discretion. It doesn't always say
"shall ticket, shall summons,"  sometimes it's "may".

Let me guess you were a anal policy pencil pusher and couldn't hack making your own decisions?

Yup he sure does

Well...It looks like we've reached the pissing match stage.  The topic is now locked.