A week or two ago, i was at my favorite watering hole, a small place, closes at 8 or so (it's a brewery "tasting room"), 90% of the clientel are regulars.

Some guy came in, I pegged him as an annoying, but harmless loudmouth asshole. Nothing that put me on alert, other than not to talk to the guy.

Pretty soon the bartendress not to leave until he was gone. A few other girls there were getting huge "don't be alone with this guy" vibes. For a bit of reference, I'm there far more often then I'll ever admit to, and I've never seen any of the girls there react like that, even to guys that I was wondering if they'd start a fight or try to hold the place up.

What kind of signs would tell you some guy is not to be trusted that I don't see?

(Several of us regulars stayed till close, and walked any of the ladies to their cars the rest of the night. Creepy dude got 86'd about an hour before close, and hasn't been back since)

Can't put an adjective on it: it's a vibe you get.

I mean, I've had guys who stare at my chest all night who DON'T gimmie the, "I'm gonna chop you up and serve you to my Mother with a nice Merlot," vibe and I've had guys who appear to be the perfect gentlemen who make my skin crawl.

If you're wondering what separated YOU from that guy, it's the fact YOU were there until closing and that guy wasn't.

Quoted: Can't put an adjective on it: it's a vibe you get. I mean, I've had guys who stare at my chest all night who DON'T gimmie the, "I'm gonna chop you up and serve you to my Mother with a nice Merlot," vibe and I've had guys who appear to be the perfect gentlemen who make my skin crawl.

+1  

Haven't you ever met anyone you just automatically liked or disliked for no reason other than a gut feeling? Same thing here.

Too often, women ignore their instinct, to their detriment. They would rather put themselves into a dangerous situation than appear rude. That's foolish. If you're wrong, and you're rude, what's the worst that can happen? Some stranger who means nothing to you anyway will think you're a bitch. Who cares?

If you get a vibe like this, PAY ATTENTION TO IT!

Though it is probably a good thing these days...you folks just might be a little paranoid.

I have been told on more than one occasion that I possess "Jack Nicholson" eyes or "svengali" eyes.  I also have the big shoulders/barrel chest/thick neck/large arms and legs typical of a linebacker type of build.

The first impression I seem to give most people is one of a big, unassuming guy who looks a little scary and probably isn't all that intelligent.  Both traits tend to be a little disconcerting to most people; yet once people who get to know me they tend to think of me as a big teddy-bear.

Eventually those who get to know me learn that I am a really nice guy with a quirky sense of humor and an old-school sense of chivalry instilled by my old-world German immigrant grandfather.  A multi-skilled type of renaissance-man that can program and run CNC milling machines, build/program pc's and build networks/possess an engineering degree/know to design with three different CAD platforms, and a closet LINUX fanatic among lots of other geeky tech-stuff, etcetera/ad-nauseum.

It sucks that people make those 5-second snap-judgment first impressions of others.

I normally try to keep an open mind and give people the benefit of the doubt until I learn otherwise for myself.  If someone is new to me, I don't rely on innuendo from other people before passing judgment on someone's character...seems rather weak-minded to me.

So don't be so quick to judge a book by its cover, keep an open mind, yet still keep your guard up.  Sometimes you might be pleasantly surprised.

Arctangent:

There's a difference between judging someone by their appearance and listening to your gut when someone gives you the creeps.

I was raised around barrel chested Germans () and groups of folks who liked to call themselves Pagans.  In a room full of strangers, the big menacing-looking dude is usually the first one I talk to. I wonder if that's annoying to 'em.  

Usually it's not the looks that creep me out, it's something else that's intangible.  You cannot describe it, qualify it, or defend it with any logic and it cannot be proven until Mr. or Ms. Creepy DOES something creepy.  

Funny thing:  people are quick to call you "paranoid" until something happens, then they call you "prepared".  

"You have 2 weeks worth of food in your cupboard, are you paranoid?"
"You stock water, are you paranoid?"
"You have a CCW, are you paranoid?"

Generally, any caution a person takes outside of what another person considers reasonable is called "paranoid".  

LOL...touché!

So you naturally gravitate towards big, intimidating, barrel-chested Germans and Pagans, eh?

Then you're one of those rare ladies that are my kind of people.

If preparedness≈paranoid, then I am definitely paranoid and becoming more so every week!

I guess the creepiness-detector it is one of those intuition things that come as standard equipment on most women along with gay-dar and BS detectors.

Friday evening after work I stopped by the local Walmart as I had gotten a tip from my HTF that they had received large allotments of Winchester white box .308.  Making my way to the sporting goods department I ran across what looked like a homeless guy sitting on the floor in an aisle-way.  He was staring at the other side of the aisle and talking to himself in a low monotone voice.  That set off my creepiness detector enough that I completely avoided that aisle as I made my way out.

I probably judged the guy a little too harshly, but I was really short on time and decided better safe than sorry...

Question:

You mentioned something about, "stocking water"?

Even though I am hooked up to the PUD water district I have a 360-foot drilled well on my property that I use to irrigate my garden and water livestock as well as a back-up to PUD.  In addition, I recently purchased several Katadyn water filters to keep in my home and vehicles.

So I am curious about importance of stocking water and I am wondering if that is more of  a condo/apartment dweller thing?

Quoted: There's a difference between judging someone by their appearance and listening to your gut when someone gives you the creeps.

definitely - usually the ones who give me the creeps are the ones who blend in with "the norm..."  Jeffrey Dahmer comes to mind...  they don't "look scary," but there's something about their mannerisms, the way they walk/stand/stare, etc.  

my experience has taught me that "big dogs" (rough looking, big men) are usually the best to be around...  they usually have a calmer demeanor and are more likely to protect than harm, unless you're up to no good.    and yes, that's a stereotype, too, but it's one I've gained through years of experience, so I'm sticking with it.  

I guess I'm the odd man out.  I'm big and burly and women seem to take a serious dislike to being around me in a social setting.

Truth be told, though, I really prefer being left out of the drama that women seem to generate.  

IMO, all this talk about 'gut feelings' is really a way of quantifying pheromone reading.  People give them off just like any other animal and I think women are more in tune with this as a survival mechanism.  Considering that women are, generally, smaller and weaker than men, they need every option for conflict avoidance they can lay hands on.  I believe this same pheromone awareness is helpful when rearing children.

If a person is sick, physically or mentally, it stands to reason that their body chemistry would also be a bit off.  Nothing major.  Nothing visible to testing, even.  But it might be more than enough to change the scent they give off just like eating a lot of garlic makes your sweat smell different.  

Women's Intuition is bogus.  ESP, or the like, might exist, but something a bit more down-to-earth is far more likely.  Occam's Razor.

"A real life example of Occam's Razor in practice goes as follows:
Crop circles began to be reported in the 1970s. Two interpretations were made of the circles of matted grass. One was that flying saucers made the imprints. The other was that someone (human) had used some sort of instruments to push down the grass. Occam's Razor would say that given the lack of evidence for flying saucers and the complexity involved in getting UFOs from distant galaxies to arrive on earth (unseen and traveling faster than the speed of light I suppose) the second interpretation is simplest. The second explanation could be wrong, but until further facts present themself it remains the preferable theory. As it turns out, Occam's Razor was right as two people admitted to making the original crop figures in the 1990s (and the rest have apparently been created by copy-cats). Despite this fact, some people still ignore Occam's Razor and instead continue to believe that crop circles are being created by flying saucers."

We all use stereotypes and racial profiling in our day-to-day activities.  It's hard-wired into our genetics as a means of self-defense and personal growth and accomplishment.  

But, stereotypes and profiling don't go far enough to explain why people take an automatic dislike to a person that is dressed nicely and just walked in the door.

Quoted: I guess I'm the odd man out.  I'm big and burly and women seem to take a serious dislike to being around me in a social setting. Truth be told, though, I really prefer being left out of the drama that women seem to generate.   IMO, all this talk about 'gut feelings' is really a way of quantifying pheromone reading.  People give them off just like any other animal and I think women are more in tune with this as a survival mechanism.  Considering that women are, generally, smaller and weaker than men, they need every option for conflict avoidance they can lay hands on.  I believe this same pheromone awareness is helpful when rearing children. If a person is sick, physically or mentally, it stands to reason that their body chemistry would also be a bit off.  Nothing major.  Nothing visible to testing, even.  But it might be more than enough to change the scent they give off just like eating a lot of garlic makes your sweat smell different.   Women's Intuition is bogus.  ESP, or the like, might exist, but something a bit more down-to-earth is far more likely.  Occam's Razor. "A real life example of Occam's Razor in practice goes as follows: Crop circles began to be reported in the 1970s. Two interpretations were made of the circles of matted grass. One was that flying saucers made the imprints. The other was that someone (human) had used some sort of instruments to push down the grass. Occam's Razor would say that given the lack of evidence for flying saucers and the complexity involved in getting UFOs from distant galaxies to arrive on earth (unseen and traveling faster than the speed of light I suppose) the second interpretation is simplest. The second explanation could be wrong, but until further facts present themself it remains the preferable theory. As it turns out, Occam's Razor was right as two people admitted to making the original crop figures in the 1990s (and the rest have apparently been created by copy-cats). Despite this fact, some people still ignore Occam's Razor and instead continue to believe that crop circles are being created by flying saucers." We all use stereotypes and racial profiling in our day-to-day activities.  It's hard-wired into our genetics as a means of self-defense and personal growth and accomplishment.   But, stereotypes and profiling don't go far enough to explain why people take an automatic dislike to a person that is dressed nicely and just walked in the door.

I guess the pheromone explanation could work...except when you get that feeling from someone whose pheromones you aren't close enough to detect.

Intuition is just a different way of defining subconscious, instinctual behaviors. Your conscious mind may not be able to detect anything out of the ordinary with someone that sets off your inner alarm bells, but I can guarantee you that there was SOMETHING about the person that cause those bells to start sounding. Doesn't mean they are necessarily accurate, but better safe than sorry. If someone makes you uncomfortable, why fight it?

Tag .... so I can figure out what I'm doing wrong.

M-L,  How close do you have to be to sense pheromones?  If they have an effective range, I haven't seen that memo!

More to the point, I don't want to come across as saying that pheromones are the sole key indicator.  Women have been shown to take in a lot of small details upon first meeting a person, including fingernail condition and shoe quality and care.  These are also key indicators that play a part in how one reacts to a person.

Once had a stripper tell me that the best way to tell a high-roller from a pretender was to look at the watch and the shoes.  Really rich guys will have the best of both with no discernible wear on the soles of their shoes (lots of shoes and lots of carpet in those nice offices!)  She's a professional when it comes to making the most money from the fewest customers.....and it's fairly easy to pick out the whales from the rest.

My question to the ladies herein:  have you ever met that weirdo again, under different circumstances, and had you initial impression changed?  Did a good friend vouch for him and make everything alright?  Did you see him give a lecture?  Whatever?

Or, is it a hard and fast rule that cannot be amended once inadvertently violated?

Well, if pheromones didn't have a range, they would work on TV images....

I think you are confusing the type of vibe we are discussing here with a simple bad first impression. The two are VERY different.

A bad first impression could be arrived at by the conscious means you described; the vibe we are talking about is visceral, and cannot be quantified in the manner your stripper example can.

Quoted: IMO, all this talk about 'gut feelings' is really a way of quantifying pheromone reading.

Interesting...Very much so, in fact.
Had a guy come for a job interview at a company I had just started at, years ago.
He was interviewing for a manufacturing position, no experience needed kinda thing.
After he'd filled out the application, I handed it to the owner of the company and mumbled, "That one's broken. He creeps me out."

Three weeks later, boy was arrested for the rape and murder of 2 young boys.

Quoted: LOL...touché! So you naturally gravitate towards big, intimidating, barrel-chested Germans and Pagans, eh? Then you're one of those rare ladies that are my kind of people. If preparedness≈paranoid, then I am definitely paranoid and becoming more so every week! I guess the creepiness-detector it is one of those intuition things that come as standard equipment on most women along with gay-dar and BS detectors. Friday evening after work I stopped by the local Walmart as I had gotten a tip from my HTF that they had received large allotments of Winchester white box .308.  Making my way to the sporting goods department I ran across what looked like a homeless guy sitting on the floor in an aisle-way.  He was staring at the other side of the aisle and talking to himself in a low monotone voice.  That set off my creepiness detector enough that I completely avoided that aisle as I made my way out. I probably judged the guy a little too harshly, but I was really short on time and decided better safe than sorry... Question: You mentioned something about, "stocking water"? Even though I am hooked up to the PUD water district I have a 360-foot drilled well on my property that I use to irrigate my garden and water livestock as well as a back-up to PUD.  In addition, I recently purchased several Katadyn water filters to keep in my home and vehicles. So I am curious about importance of stocking water and I am wondering if that is more of  a condo/apartment dweller thing?

No, I live out in the sticks here in MA. I stock water. We are on a well, but when we first moved into our house here, we lost power and phones for 4 days. Unless you have a way to get the water from your well like a generator then you should have some on hand.
We have since bought 2 generators, but I still have water and plenty of food. You never know if you will have to leave your location. It's better to be safe than sorry.

Quoted: M-L,  How close do you have to be to sense pheromones?  If they have an effective range, I haven't seen that memo! More to the point, I don't want to come across as saying that pheromones are the sole key indicator.  Women have been shown to take in a lot of small details upon first meeting a person, including fingernail condition and shoe quality and care.  These are also key indicators that play a part in how one reacts to a person. Once had a stripper tell me that the best way to tell a high-roller from a pretender was to look at the watch and the shoes.  Really rich guys will have the best of both with no discernible wear on the soles of their shoes (lots of shoes and lots of carpet in those nice offices!)  She's a professional when it comes to making the most money from the fewest customers.....and it's fairly easy to pick out the whales from the rest. My question to the ladies herein:  have you ever met that weirdo again, under different circumstances, and had you initial impression changed?  Did a good friend vouch for him and make everything alright?  Did you see him give a lecture?  Whatever? Or, is it a hard and fast rule that cannot be amended once inadvertently violated?

Citing a hooker stripper as a credible source to validate a point is kinda creepy.

Quoted: I agree with the other ladies... For me, it's not necessarily how someone looks on the outside, it's what you can see in their eyes.  The way they act, their body language towards you (and others), the way they hold themselves...it's all comprehensive.  What it mostly boils down to is that feeling you get in the pit of your stomach that tells you something might be wrong.  It's the same intuition that alerts you when you feel like someone's watching you, etc.

Yup.

There have only been a handful of times I've gotten the vibe about someone that I just can't place my finger on, and each time it ended up being right.

ETA: DAMN, Playmore!

Actually Pers, the person's profession makes them something of an SME on the issue.  Their job is to get the most money they can in the duration of their shift, and knowing their marks allows them to weed out the pretenders.  No difference between that and an experienced poker player picking out the tells of his opponents, except that one vocation is considered more honorable than the other.

I guess I should have led with the poker-player story, instead.

M-L, your position is illogical.  Are you honestly suggesting that a physical substance can be transmitted through an electrical contrivance?  

The point that I'm trying to get across is that, possibly, this 'visceral' sensation is the name we consciously give the totality of stimuli we receive and cannot otherwise categorize.  If I see something, I can say that my eyes, optic nerve, and visual cortex are working.  Same with hearing, smell or touch.  But that doesn't necessarily imply that those are the only senses at work: they are only the ones that I am conscious of using.

If the guy is ugly, poorly dressed, and smells horrible, you're senses pick it up and give you an impression of discomfort.  Not necessarily an impression of imminent danger, but someone you'd rather not be around.

If the guy is dressed like a Wall Street banker, with a million-dollar smile, and that "something" inside of you is screaming to get away with all possible speed, what's to say that you're not reading pheromones (something the antagonist cannot consciously control) in addition to other miniscule details that we are just not conscious of doing?  

Whenever we discuss these ephemeral, "visceral" human capabilities, I believe it's important to remember that there are many things about the human body and mind that we are only just now beginning to understand.  For example, where once the appendix was considered a vestigial organ, an unneeded remnant from our evolution, we are now seeing that it might possibly be a very important and still active organ that's fairly critical to our individual survival.

What else might there be?

Quoted: Actually Pers, the person's profession makes them something of an SME on the issue.  Their job is to get the most money they can in the duration of their shift, and knowing their marks allows them to weed out the pretenders.  No difference between that and an experienced poker player picking out the tells of his opponents, except that one vocation is considered more honorable than the other. I guess I should have led with the poker-player story, instead. M-L, your position is illogical.  Are you honestly suggesting that a physical substance can be transmitted through an electrical contrivance?   The point that I'm trying to get across is that, possibly, this 'visceral' sensation is the name we consciously give the totality of stimuli we receive and cannot otherwise categorize.  If I see something, I can say that my eyes, optic nerve, and visual cortex are working.  Same with hearing, smell or touch.  But that doesn't necessarily imply that those are the only senses at work: they are only the ones that I am conscious of using. If the guy is ugly, poorly dressed, and smells horrible, you're senses pick it up and give you an impression of discomfort.  Not necessarily an impression of imminent danger, but someone you'd rather not be around. If the guy is dressed like a Wall Street banker, with a million-dollar smile, and that "something" inside of you is screaming to get away with all possible speed, what's to say that you're not reading pheromones (something the antagonist cannot consciously control) in addition to other miniscule details that we are just not conscious of doing?   Whenever we discuss these ephemeral, "visceral" human capabilities, I believe it's important to remember that there are many things about the human body and mind that we are only just now beginning to understand.  For example, where once the appendix was considered a vestigial organ, an unneeded remnant from our evolution, we are now seeing that it might possibly be a very important and still active organ that's fairly critical to our individual survival. What else might there be?

Not illogical at all. I am merely pointing out that if pheromones didn't have a range in which they could be perceived, they would work via electronic devices. Since they do not, obviously there must be a limit to the range in which they function. Your statement that if they had a range you hadn't seen that memo is contrary to your later statement that there are many things about the human body that we still don't understand.

I stated earlier that intuition is just a different way of defining subconscious, instinctual behaviors. Pheromones may be a part of those subconscious, instinctual triggers. You keep giving examples of CONSCIOUS reasons to avoid someone. I don't think you have ever experienced the type of vibe we are discussing here, based on your posts.

Quoted: Interesting...Very much so, in fact. Had a guy come for a job interview at a company I had just started at, years ago. He was interviewing for a manufacturing position, no experience needed kinda thing. After he'd filled out the application, I handed it to the owner of the company and mumbled, "That one's broken. He creeps me out." Three weeks later, boy was arrested for the rape and murder of 2 young boys.

So...was he hired by the company, or did the owner take your advice?

Quoted: Quoted: Interesting...Very much so, in fact. Had a guy come for a job interview at a company I had just started at, years ago. He was interviewing for a manufacturing position, no experience needed kinda thing. After he'd filled out the application, I handed it to the owner of the company and mumbled, "That one's broken. He creeps me out." Three weeks later, boy was arrested for the rape and murder of 2 young boys. So...was he hired by the company, or did the owner take your advice?

Not hired. Owner thought he was "off" too.

Quoted: Quoted: IMO, all this talk about 'gut feelings' is really a way of quantifying pheromone reading.   Interesting...Very much so, in fact. Had a guy come for a job interview at a company I had just started at, years ago. He was interviewing for a manufacturing position, no experience needed kinda thing. After he'd filled out the application, I handed it to the owner of the company and mumbled, "That one's broken. He creeps me out." Three weeks later, boy was arrested for the rape and murder of 2 young boys.

So we should start calling you River Tam?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: IMO, all this talk about 'gut feelings' is really a way of quantifying pheromone reading.   Interesting...Very much so, in fact. Had a guy come for a job interview at a company I had just started at, years ago. He was interviewing for a manufacturing position, no experience needed kinda thing. After he'd filled out the application, I handed it to the owner of the company and mumbled, "That one's broken. He creeps me out." Three weeks later, boy was arrested for the rape and murder of 2 young boys. So we should start calling you River Tam?

Had to google it...never saw the show.

It's a great show. I really liked it. Liked it so much I named one of my kitties River and Kaylee. Lol

Crazy chicks are easier to spot then creepy dudes.  I can spot one a mile away.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: IMO, all this talk about 'gut feelings' is really a way of quantifying pheromone reading.   Interesting...Very much so, in fact. Had a guy come for a job interview at a company I had just started at, years ago. He was interviewing for a manufacturing position, no experience needed kinda thing. After he'd filled out the application, I handed it to the owner of the company and mumbled, "That one's broken. He creeps me out." Three weeks later, boy was arrested for the rape and murder of 2 young boys. So we should start calling you River Tam? Had to google it...never saw the show.

Two by two, hands of blue ...

Got the whole series on DVD plus the movie - but I am digressing from the thread.  I do think that women have a tendency to pick up on little nuances that men don't.  And they aren't even aware of it.  That's what I think is "Women's intuition"

Quoted: Crazy chicks are easier to spot then creepy dudes. I can spot one a mile away.

Terrific, because I am seriously in need of enlightenment on the subject.

I only seem to be good with the nut-jobs...I would love to know how to spot and avoid them.
Took myself off the market years ago so as to keep my sanity as well as having way too much to lose these days.

I do know one thing...no smokers...ever.  
Every single woman that I have been involved with who smoked has wound up being a total nut-ball.

Quoted: Crazy chicks are easier to spot then creepy dudes.  I can spot attract one from a mile away.

Fixed it for ya.

Quoted: Terrific, because I am seriously in need of enlightenment on the subject. I only seem to be good with the nut-jobs...I would love to know how to spot and avoid them. Took myself off the market years ago so as to keep my sanity as well as having way too much to lose these days. I do know one thing...no smokers...ever.   Every single woman that I have been involved with who smoked has wound up being a total nut-ball.

Sounds like you're doing a great job of spotting them if you always manage to pick them up.  

What you need to figure out is why you are attracted to nut-jobs (wait... that doesn't sound right... you know what I mean ) and why you keep settling for them.  

Gotta admit though, psychos are fun to watch and fun to play with, but not so much fun to keep.

M-L, your position regarding the transmission of pheromones via television is completely without merit.  To say that any physical substance should be able to be transmitted through a television is asinine, to say the least.  Can you feel the wool sweater some starlet is wearing on Days of Our Lives?  Can you smell the petunias on Giligan's Island?

My use of conscious behavior on the above post is meant soley as an illustration of something we are all familiar with and can relate to.  And, let us remember, that there are a lot of things happening with those main senses that we are completely unaware of.

You are right, however, that I have no recollection of ever having an experience like has been described.  Not to brag, but there is very little that scares me, spiders excepted (which is perfectly natural and manly as they are vile creatures with entirely too many legs!)

I guess being big and burly has its upside, too.

Quoted: Quoted: Crazy chicks are easier to spot then creepy dudes. I can spot attract one from a mile away. Fixed it for ya.

Quoted: Quoted: Terrific, because I am seriously in need of enlightenment on the subject. I only seem to be good with the nut-jobs...I would love to know how to spot and avoid them. Took myself off the market years ago so as to keep my sanity as well as having way too much to lose these days. I do know one thing...no smokers...ever. Every single woman that I have been involved with who smoked has wound up being a total nut-ball. Sounds like you're doing a great job of spotting them if you always manage to pick them up. What you need to figure out is why you are attracted to nut-jobs (wait... that doesn't sound right... you know what I mean ) and why you keep settling for them. Gotta admit though, psychos are fun to watch and fun to play with, but not so much fun to keep.

LMAO!!!!

I totally deserve to have my chops busted for all of the mistakes I have made with women!

At least I have three wonderful children for all of my trouble and expense...which is all that really matters after all.

I am just looking to be a little more pro-active...

I have trouble differentiating between the good ones and the nut-balls; therefore whenever any woman is nice to me I end up getting really nervous, clam-up, and make a quiet exit ASAP.

I think it is a defensive reflex-action I have developed or something...  

Quoted: M-L, your position regarding the transmission of pheromones via television is completely without merit.  To say that any physical substance should be able to be transmitted through a television is asinine, to say the least.  Can you feel the wool sweater some starlet is wearing on Days of Our Lives?  Can you smell the petunias on Giligan's Island?

No, and you couldn't feel the wool or smell the petunias without being in the range to do so, even if you were in the same room and could see them. Which is exactly my point: pheromones have an effective range.

Apparently, an exaggerated analogy is lost on you.

Quoted: Crazy chicks are easier to spot then creepy dudes.  I can spot attract one from a mile away. Fixed it for ya.

Unfortunately Pers, reviewing recent history, you are correct.  Therefore I have decided to stop looking and forcing the issue.  Being a single dad with 3 awesome kids is just fine by me.  I don't need a women to make me happy.

I never thought I would ever be able to type that last sentence.

Quoted: Quoted: Crazy chicks are easier to spot then creepy dudes.  I can spot attract one from a mile away. Fixed it for ya. Unfortunately Pers, reviewing recent history, you are correct.  Therefore I have decided to stop looking and forcing the issue.  Being a single dad with 3 awesome kids is just fine by me.  I don't need a women to make me happy. I never thought I would ever be able to type that last sentence.

Good for you, fsk. ... Once I managed that myself, that's when it happened. Well, so far she seems to be sane and the best thing since sliced bread - to me at least.

And maybe that plays into the "intuition" thing the original poster was talking about.  Some women can smell desperation, it would seem.

And not to nit pick (well, ok, just a little), but unless you're looking for multiple women, it's woman for one only.  (one of my many pet peeves about grammar)

Quoted:  Some women can smell desperation, it would seem.

Kinda smells like napalm....

Quoted: Unfortunately Pers, reviewing recent history, you are correct. Therefore I have decided to stop looking and forcing the issue. Being a single dad with 3 awesome kids is just fine by me. I don't need a women to make me happy. I never thought I would ever be able to type that last sentence.

Wow...your situation sounds much like mine!
Well at least I am not alone...
Like myself, it looks like you've adapted to your situation rather well, (like we have a choice).

It took me quite a while to drag myself out of that codependent mentality that most men seem to have where they feel they MUST have a woman around.

Outside of a set schedule that I must keep...I can pretty much do whatever I want without answering to anyone else.

Its kinda nice.

Actually, M-L, the exaggerated analogy isn't lost on me.  The analogy you used, however, was physically impossible and, therefore, raised questions.

There's no doubt that pheromones have a limited range, but to suggest that they would work through a television set if they didn't is, as I pointed out earlier, asinine.  

A bad analogy.

Dude...
Methinks you were on the losing end of your debate with ML a couple of posts ago.
Should probably let it go...

You know what creeps me out and makes me a bit paranoid?

A single post has called out and identified a lot of women posters in one place.

The same women have detailed (somewhat) how to avoid being spotted as a "creep."

/Many apologies if my statements are misconstrued, but I'm the father of a beautiful little girl, so I may be a bit overly sensitive.

Quoted: You know what creeps me out and makes me a bit paranoid? A single post has called out and identified a lot of women posters in one place. The same women have detailed (somewhat) how to avoid being spotted as a "creep." /Many apologies if my statements are misconstrued, but I'm the father of a beautiful little girl, so I may be a bit overly sensitive.

Well, this is the "Women Shooters forum". Stands to reason that most of the posters here are women.

That being said, the women haven't really given a list of way to avoid being spotted as a creep, mostly because if you read the thread, the consensus is that there IS no checklist. It's a subconscious, instinctual (or intuitive, if you prefer) feeling.

Quoted: M-L,  How close do you have to be to sense pheromones?  If they have an effective range, I haven't seen that memo! <snip>

Quoted: <snip> There's no doubt that pheromones have a limited range, but to suggest that they would work through a television set if they didn't is, as I pointed out earlier, asinine.   A bad analogy.

Quoted: <snip> IMO, all this talk about 'gut feelings' is really a way of quantifying pheromone reading.

Quoted: <snip> Women's Intuition is bogus. ESP, or the like, might exist, but something a bit more down-to-earth is far more likely.

Quoted: <snip> M-L, your position is illogical.  Are you honestly suggesting that a physical substance can be transmitted through an electrical contrivance? Whenever we discuss these ephemeral, "visceral" human capabilities, I believe it's important to remember that there are many things about the human body and mind that we are only just now beginning to understand.   What else might there be?

You have contradicted yourself in this thread more than once, yet you keep insisting that my position is the illogical one. Might want to rethink that.

Can jerk pheromones be detected over the internet?  Just askin...

Quoted: Quoted:  Some women can smell desperation, it would seem. Kinda smells like napalm....

I could go a couple different ways with this one....

Such as - so you're saying some women "...love the smell of napalm in the morning ... it smells like.... victory"? (man, I gotta stop watching so many movies)  Or is it more a "crash and burn" kinda analogy?

Then again, I suppose it could actually be both

Quoted: Can jerk pheromones be detected over the internet?  Just askin...

After a lengthy scientific evaluation, it would appear so:

Quoted: ...women seem to take a serious dislike to being around me in a social setting.

Natural selection seems to be a valid scientific theory.

That's harsh, M-L.

I guess I should have spelled it out a bit more clearly, but I was assuming a common understanding that everything has finite capabilities.  I should not have assumed so much.

Quoted: That's harsh, M-L. I guess I should have spelled it out a bit more clearly, but I was assuming a common understanding that everything has finite capabilities.  I should not have assumed so much.

In retrospect, it probably was a bit harsher than necessary, so I apologize.

However, I also think your writing off the explanations of women (who, btw, were the ones that were being asked to contribute to this thread) as bogus while simultaneously admitting that you have no experience to speak of on the subject matter is harsh as well, not to mention condescending.

I gave you an opportunity to express your opinion that pheromones have finite capabilities, to which you replied, "How close do you have to be to sense pheromones? If they have an effective range, I haven't seen that memo!" Again, not consistent with what you just stated.

People have intuition of some sort.

We can say what we want about that but most defensive schools tell you to listen to the small voice.

If it says do not go into this store now Do Not Go!

It can be called paranoia.  But it is recognised buy enough people to be common in these curricula.

In some sniper classes the would be sniper is instructed not to burn through the scope too long or too hard at a given (living) target.

The reason:  People can sense danger.  If they will only listen for it.

M-L, it was never my intent to come across as dismissive of women or this "intuition".  There seems to be enough anecdotal evidence to support the idea that something is happening - we just don't know what it is or where it's coming from.  

Calling it Extra Sensory Perception, if you will, implies a willingness to accept the idea that there is more to mankind than the five basic senses that we're all familiar with.  It still does not, unfortunately, quantify what is happening.

It is my position that this intuitive response is an subconscious reaction to physical stimuli.  That we haven't nailed down exactly what is going on, doesn't mean that it's not going on - just that we haven't figured it out.  It could be a reaction to a singular entity (pheromones) or multiple entities that combine in a synergistic way to set off the alarm bells.  Taken individually, they are innocent.  Combined.....

No matter how we cut it, something is obviously happening!

I do not believe, however, that it is appropriate to simply consider it a "mystical force" anymore than I would dismiss the pyramids as alien-built.  To do so diminishes us all and that is why I labeled WI as bogus.  A very poor choice of words on my part.

To date, I have not seen any studies that have determined the reach of pheromones.  To be honest, though I haven't kept up with the research like I should.  If you're aware of something, please feel free to point it out.  

Finally, let me state that whatever is going on is going on for a reason.  if you hear that little angel on your shoulder squawking hard, get clear of the situation.  Better to be wrong and embarrassed than right and dead!

Thank you for your time.

Quoted: Quoted: There's a difference between judging someone by their appearance and listening to your gut when someone gives you the creeps. definitely - usually the ones who give me the creeps are the ones who blend in with "the norm..."  Jeffrey Dahmer comes to mind...  they don't "look scary," but there's something about their mannerisms, the way they walk/stand/stare, etc.   my experience has taught me that "big dogs" (rough looking, big men) are usually the best to be around...  they usually have a calmer demeanor and are more likely to protect than harm, unless you're up to no good.    and yes, that's a stereotype, too, but it's one I've gained through years of experience, so I'm sticking with it.

As one of the aforementioned "big dogs" that tends to be my experience too.  With female friends it's to be expected, but I've also noticed women I barely know or don't know at all gravitating my way when they think they might need protection or escape.  The company I keep seems to make a difference as well.  If I'm out alone I can go unnoticed or be ignored but once the bartender (female) comes around the bar to give me a hug or if I'm out with a female friend more women seem to notice me.

There is this great book called the Gift of Fear.
He is anti-gun but the rest of what he is saying is spot on.
The book talks about how people knew before hand that something terrible was going to happen or was wrong. It happens 99% of the time.
We have primitive instincts that over time we have come to ignore for a lot of reasons.
How many times have you said I wish I have followed my gut in lesser things?
I have regretted ignoring that instinct every time.
You did well staying there.

Quoted: There is this great book called the Gift of Fear. He is anti-gun but the rest of what he is saying is spot on. The book talks about how people knew before hand that something terrible was going to happen or was wrong. It happens 99% of the time. We have primitive instincts that over time we have come to ignore for a lot of reasons. How many times have you said I wish I have followed my gut in lesser things? I have regretted ignoring that instinct every time. You did well staying there.

+1 I read the book after a stalking incident. Lots of very practical information in there.