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Posted: 7/22/2008 12:54:46 PM EDT
[#1]
He preaches common sense stuff most dont seem to understand but If you follow his program...you will succeed in living like no one else
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Posted: 7/22/2008 1:03:51 PM EDT
[#2]
He has some sound principals behind his thinking. Some of his investing strategy is a little tame for me.
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Posted: 7/22/2008 1:09:03 PM EDT
[#3]
For the common man, his thinking is radical and not common. He makes a lot of sense. For those who are smart with money already, then I suppose it might seem juvenile. I myself have learned a lot.
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Posted: 7/22/2008 1:10:02 PM EDT
[#4]
His teachings helped out my grandfather tremendously over the past few years.
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Posted: 7/22/2008 1:16:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Know his stuff but I cant stand his overly acted dramatic southern accent. Cant listen for more than 10 seconds when he starts to accentuate his lame ass drawl.
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Posted: 7/22/2008 3:45:52 PM EDT
[#6]
He changed my financial life, it sucked getting out of debt but now I am secure and loving it. I think Ramsey should be taught in public school to teach Americans not to be dumbasses with money. I do however still keep one credit card and do somethings differently then what Dave suggests.
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Posted: 7/22/2008 4:29:41 PM EDT
[#7]
I am an absolute believer. I've been living a Ramsey-like lifestyle for the last ten years.
When you buy with credit you not only pay for the item, you also pay substantial interest. The interest frequently exceeds the cost of the item itself. Even if its a minor item, small interest charges rapidly build. In addition to having lower available income (because more goes to serve debt), debt also restricts your opportunities. A lack o cash on hand means you frequently have to forgoe great deals. Using the Ramsey method I bought and paid for a home in three years. Once it was paid for I paid off the cars and all other outstanding debt. Not long after that I decided to retrain. Took two years off work, paid for a masters degree and went back to school. It was possible because 1) I had no debt and 2) I had cash in the bank. I just turned 40. I have never had a great paying job, and have been on the lower end of middle class all my life. I own everything I have (cars, substantial firearm collection, two motorcycles, boat, house, etc), travel frequently (just took the family from NY to California for a two week summer vacation), and basically do everything I want to. The various savings accounts are all VERY healthy, and I have sufficient financial freedom that I can tithe fully to my church, and do whatever the hell I want to, while living a semi-retired lifestyle. All at 40... Ramsey's methods work. |
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Posted: 7/22/2008 4:41:26 PM EDT
[#8]
He is a dipshit that too many people take literally. I am a financial advisor and everyones situation is different. If you pull some of the shit that he talks about you will fuck yourself.
example. You have 80k in credit card debt. 60K is at 29% interest. 15K is at 19% interest and 5K at 6%. If you did things Dumbass's way, you would pay the 5K first so you "feel" better about having one less bill meanwhile the others kill you in interest. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:01:59 AM EDT
[#9]
Well sure, not everyone's problem fits a cookie cutter mold. Still, He's helped more people than he's hurt. Cash is king! |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:04:22 AM EDT
[#10]
Been there and done that, he speaks the truth.
Plus he's a good guy 
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:04:40 AM EDT
[#11]
Meh. He's half right. His "method" works for those who are financially irresponsible and lack self control.
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:06:53 AM EDT
[#12]
You can be solidly middle class. I agree with most of what he says. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:07:57 AM EDT
[#13]
...of which there are multitudes! |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:08:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Let's hear about some of your financial success. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:10:23 AM EDT
[#15]
I see what you're saying when you're basing it SOLELY off numbers, but "sticking with it" is essential to overcoming your debt. If you take on that first $60k, it will seem like an insurmountable task and most will give up and say fuck it. Once people see that they ARE making a difference, it will motivate them further to stick with the program and maybe even go more hardcore at it. The "snowball effect". |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:10:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Which is the problem of around 70-90% of the folks who listen to him. I have attended the course and it makes solid sense for those who are unsophisticated about money, as I am. If you are financially secure and well invested then no, he is probably not going to help much. I am a believer. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:16:46 AM EDT
[#17]
I also love it when he pisses off the know it all money experts 
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:19:50 AM EDT
[#18]
In your example, they have already fucked themselves. Dave Ramsey isn't going to make it worse. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:21:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Let's crucify him! |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:23:05 AM EDT
[#20]
+1 How in the world can you even find a $60K loan at 29%? I was already in a sound financial position, but decided to read his book anyway. I enjoyed his book, and although it didn't really help me in any way, it re-affirmed my lifestyle. If a person can't turn their financial life around using his elementary techniques, nothing will. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:23:24 AM EDT
[#21]
So, a good chunk of America then? |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:27:20 AM EDT
[#22]
He has good points and bad, but I think alot of what makes him a success is most of the people he deals with are RETARDED and all he tells them is common sense shit, "quit spending more than you make", really? Do you need to pay someone for that advice?
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:29:51 AM EDT
[#23]
No joke. Are these know-it-alls retired early? Are they debt free? Are they going to the range 3 times a week? If not, I'm not going to learn anything from them.  Dave is a great guy who knows what he is talking about. In his "Financial Peace" course, his last disc is the best one of the bunch (although all of them are outstanding). In the last one, he explains why Christians need to be debt free.......So that they can help others that need help. That gives real joy.  "Live like no one else, and some day, you will be able to live like no one else." |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:31:16 AM EDT
[#24]
Went from an apartment and 35k in credit cards to beautiful home and no debt in 4 years. Worked for me.
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:34:43 AM EDT
[#25]
No, unless you're impatient. Everything he's ever mentioned in any of his books are available free of charge on the radio. In maybe 2 months (possibly less) you'll hear all you need to hear. I don't religiously follow everything the guy says (I still have a credit card for business expenses), and when I got out of debt, I didn't do it with "Gazelle like intensity" by selling everything that wasn't bolted down. That I don't follow everything he says to the letter, is not to imply his approach is wrong. He's helping a lot of people - more than most of us could have ever dreamed - and I think it's a shame that so many people go out of their way to make fun of the people who's lives are better because of things he's said. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:36:06 AM EDT
[#26]
You must be a financial retard. Only sophisticated financiers need apply, here. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:40:22 AM EDT
[#27]
4 Rules.... Cash is good will make your money work for you, Debt is bad will make you a slave to the lender! Start with the smallest debt first so you can gain confidence and motivation. Both spouses must be on the same page. You start an emergency fund, so your credit card doesn't become one. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:40:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Yeah, lets see them post pics of their huge offices and secretaries oh ye captains of finance.
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:41:11 AM EDT
[#29]
I think his stuff should be taught in high schools and colleges. Though they are common sense and simple to myself, for others, well... they could use the help.
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:48:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Yep. To emphasize the point, a significant portion of what he says is WRONG. Some of it is right, but to Chairborne's point and EagleHBAR, there is a lot that is dead wrong as well.
Indeed. With Ramsey you will never be wealthy. Some people are satisfied with mediocrity -- and that's just fine, because that's their voluntary choice. Doesn't work for me, though. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:50:18 AM EDT
[#31]
There's more, like saving for retirement, getting life, medical & disability insurance, charitable giving, etc. But you pretty much got it, yeah. The stories in the books, and the stories on the radio give more details as far as implementation goes, and primarily serve as motivational tools. Some folks (myself included) sometimes grow tired of the constant "rah rah" motivational thing, but it's important for people to understand that emotion is what gets most people into financial trouble, and some emotive thinking (backed with reason to solidify it) the other way is what's going to get them out. He takes a hard line on some things, but not to a fault in my view. When somebody has a lifetime habit of spending like a drunken sailor on credit, you don't tell them "You can use your credit card now and then, just make sure you pay it off every month. Plus, you enjoy the rewards, so it's a win-win". You wouldn't say that anymore than you would tell an alcoholic "It's okay to have a beer once in a while", even while it's technically true. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:52:29 AM EDT
[#32]
Why don't you give some examples? Are you wealthy? Are you debt free? Are you comfortably retired? We'd all love to learn from you. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 5:55:31 AM EDT
[#33]
What does he say that is flat out wrong? And define wealthy. It's not difficult to retire a millionaire, and it's easier the earlier you start investing. He encourages people to start businesses and take (smart) risks - things that make you wealthy. I've never heard him insist on working a 9-5 job as a W2 wage earner. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 6:04:36 AM EDT
[#34]
I am debt free except the house.
I have a reserve fund. I contribute to tax deffered retirement (in addition to pension) I make an effort to "live responsibly, within my means" I listen to Ramsey sometimes, but I don't follow any specific plan. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 6:05:50 AM EDT
[#35]
I'll take simple and successful any time. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 6:12:35 AM EDT
[#36]
We are going through his classes right now and although I am not a "FINIACAL ADVISOR", it has helped us already.
It is hard to argue with the facts that his methods do work, not for credit card companies, but for the regular public. 
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Posted: 7/25/2008 7:57:23 AM EDT
[#37]
1. First, EagleHBAR hit the big one. Paying off debt without regard to interest rates. Ramsey would have you throw money into the garbage can. All based on Ramsey's arrogant (and insulting) assumption that people are weak-willed and have no self-discipline. The numbers don't lie. Second, Ramsey's "no debt" mantra.* He ignores the tax shield provided by certain tax-advantaged debt. Uncle Sam is the biggest drain on everybody's wallet, yet Ramsey does not account that for tax advantaged debt, the effective cost of capital is much lower than the nominal rate. Tax advantaged debt can be used to leverage a higher after-tax return in investment elsewhere. He would have you forego this benefit, which is truly a shame because it’s an excellent vehicle for building wealth. Third, although related to the second one above, is Ramsey's admonition to pay down debt as quickly as possible. As noted above, paying down tax advantaged debt (e.g. one’s mortgage) when one can make more in after-tax return, is foolish. Even the risk averse cannot justify this one on risk/benefit grounds, because for the vast majority of the term of most home loans because the payments are not deferred by making extra payments. Ramsey would have them forego a financial cushion in To sum it up, a good part of what Ramsey espouses is contravened by simple mathematics. Adding insult to injury is Ramsey’s insulting presupposition that everybody is a spineless jellyfish who has no self-discipline. It’s one thing to steer people wrong on the numbers. It’s yet another to do so while humiliating them with his arrogant attitude towards their mental fortitude. 2. By most standards, yes. I'm not going to get into a hielo-esque argument here, but let me say that most times I feel like cash falls out whenever I take a dump. 3. Absent my fixed rate mortgage, yes. 4. I'm only 36, I have no desire to put myself out to pasture this early! *: I understand that Ramsey may have softened his hard line on debt to permit a 15 year fixed rate mortgage for the purchase of one's home. As I cannot confirm this, my criticism of Ramsey stands. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 8:01:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Most people that find themselves with $50k in credit card debt and are living beyond their means, spending more money than they make, ARE weak will and have NO self discipline, which is what got them in their predicament in the first place. If you ARE strong willed and disciplined, you probably never got yourself into that sort of situation in the first place and his advice might not be the best for *YOUR* situation. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 8:12:13 AM EDT
[#39]
Simple rules for those not sophisticated with money. More power to him.
Unfortunately: The important things are simple. The simple things are hard. 
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Posted: 7/25/2008 8:20:36 AM EDT
[#40]
Dave does say as long as you have a 15 year, fixed rate mortgage, that you can put at least 20% down on, and pay it off ahead of time you are good. Please explain to me how it is a good thing to pay interest just so I can deduct that amount of interest I pay from my taxable income.... lets see. If I pay $5000 in interest, I deduct that from my taxed income. I am still out the $5000, and I saved (lets assume a 30% tax bracket just to be simple) $1500 because I didn't pay that tax. So I paid $5000 to the bank to avoid paying Uncle Sam $1500. Hmmm. That doesn't make much sense. Lets see, if I did not owe that $5000, I would pay $1500 tax to Uncle Sam and pocket $3500. Hmmm. Pay the bank $5000 to aviod paying .gov $1500, or pay .gov $1500 and pocket and invest $3500. Short term that ends up with more $$$ for me, and invested that $$$ gets even better long term. Even if it can drop you to a lower tax braket, the odds of the savings being greater than the actual amount paid are slim at best, and if you look at the return that could have come if that $$$ was invested it gets even less likely. I know what course of action makes sense to me. Keeping debt simply for tax reduction purposes is just plain foolish in my book. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 8:50:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Well said. While I appreciate stockshift taking the time to type his answers, his response shows the typical complete misunderstanding of what Dave teaches. You like spending $5,000 to get a $1,500 return? Well shucks, send me the $5,000 and I will send you $3,000. There! I've just doubled Uncle Sam's rate of return.  People have been told lies about money management for so long that they do not even believe the truth. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 8:53:57 AM EDT
[#42]
most people don't understand the benefit and power of leverage and OPM.
many of these people are Ramsey-fans |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 8:55:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Dave Ramsey is great - for his intended audience. His intended audience are those mired in debt, with no self-discipline, and who have serious money management issues.
He is not the be all end all of financial competence. He rails against debt for any reason, and for his intended audience that's a good thing. This audience would find a way to rationalize themselves back into debt if he let them, so his approach is a good thing for those people. However, debt can and is used as a tool by many people in this world - not to buy consumer goods - but to make money. Look at how even a cash-rich fortune 100 company will use debt. Granted, many of the same motivations (takeovers, etc) are not present in personal finance, but the point remains that debt can be used to make money if you are responsible in that use. Capital management isn't as simple as "live debt free and invest in growth funds at the standard stock market return of 13%." Not even close. Will that strategy work? Sure, but it's lowest-common-denominator. I understand his not wanting to get too far into investing because it's kind of the tail end of his plan, but understand that it's not that simple. If someone uses Dave's advice to get out of debt and build a nest egg, that's great. They should then continue their financial education and move up the ladder of competence. Disclaimer: I work in finance, so my view isn't going to apply to most people. Overall, Dave's advice is sound and I applaud what he is doing. Fully 90% of the people I meet have no clue how to properly manager their personal finances - which includes other people in corporate finance and accounting. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 8:55:51 AM EDT
[#44]
And some people who promote this (not necessarily you) seldom take the time to explain the risk involved. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 8:57:54 AM EDT
[#45]
I believe!
I haven't followed it, mind you, but I believe!  I gave up using a CC for anything about a month ago. I refuse to use them again. Wife and I are going through all our stuff and selling what we don't need. It's going to be rough, but we'll do it. I should have done this decades ago. 
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Posted: 7/25/2008 8:57:59 AM EDT
[#46]
Absolutely agree. He steers people away from stocks and into mutual funds, which may work for some people. The main thing that he preaches is getting out of debt and I don't think it hurts to hear that message over and over again. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 8:58:01 AM EDT
[#47]
clark howard>dave ramsey
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Posted: 7/25/2008 9:00:42 AM EDT
[#48]
All too easily, I'm afraid. Credit cards are the Devil in disguise. A very GOOD disguise!
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Posted: 7/25/2008 9:04:56 AM EDT
[#49]
I never could get my wife to understand the time value of money and the value of savings. She is a free spirit.
Dave explains his beliefs and methods in an entertaining and understandable way that clicked with my wife. After the first week of Financial Peace, she finally understood all the things that I'd been trying to get her to understand for years. We never had crazy debt, but we paid off what we had, cut up our credit cards and have lived without them easily for over a year. It has been a real blessing to us. Financial Peace for me is having my wife and I on the same page financially. It was money well spent for us. If I lived by myself, it would have been a waste of money. |
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Posted: 7/25/2008 9:15:25 AM EDT
[#50]
Fixed it for ya. Clark mostly talks about how to buy stuff, save for college and not get conned. Ramsey talks about that stuff too, plus he addresses one of the biggest problems in America, overspending. Elise Glink falls into the same category as Clark. I'm more likely to listen to the Clark Howard show when she is substituting for him. Maybe I'm just burned out on him since he's been on the radio in Atlanta forever. |
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